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State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-CA); Interview With Rep. Sarah Elfreth (D-MD); Interview With Sen. James Lankford (R-OK); Interview With Gov. Spencer Cox (R-UT). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired September 14, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Watershed moment. Charlie Kirk's assassination shakes America.

ERIKA KIRK, WIDOW OF CHARLIE KIRK: You have no idea what you just have unleashed.

BASH: As Utah's governor offers a path forward.

GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): We have to find an off-ramp.

BASH: What are authorities learning about the shooter's motivation? And where does the nation go from here? Utah Governor Spencer Cox is next.

And radicalization. Another shooter goes down an online rabbit hole.

COX: We have got an entire generation that is struggling, that has been lost.

BASH: Should our leaders do more to stop it? Intelligence Committee Senator James Lankford joins me live.

And pointing fingers, the blame game in Washington.

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Democrats own this 100 percent.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Oh, please. Why don't you start with the president of the United States?

BASH: As President Trump and his allies say they will go after their enemies on the left, is there any hope for middle ground? Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle join our panel ahead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is sad and worried.

There are rising questions this weekend about the challenges facing America. A suspect is in custody charged with the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, but Kirk's horrible death, the political reaction to it amid fears of more violence, and the social media cesspool that traps too many of our neighbors and friends, these are all problems without an easy answer.

President Trump and his allies are offering one solution, telling Americans, your problems are caused by the radical left. Utah Republican Governor Spencer Cox is offering something else, urging people to unplug, talk to each other, learn how to disagree better.

The question is whether there's an appetite among Americans to do that.

Here with me now live is Utah Governor Spencer Cox.

Thank you so much for being here.

I want to get to all that in a moment, but I do want to start with some of the many unopened -- unanswered questions about the investigation. You told "The Wall Street Journal" that it is -- quote -- "very clear to us" and to the investigators that this was a person who was deeply indoctrinated with leftist ideology.

Can you elaborate on that and be more specific?

COX: Well, sure.

So that information comes from the people around him, from his family members and friends. That's how we got that information. Again, there's so much more that we're learning and so much more that we will learn. There will be -- official charges will be filed on Tuesday and there will be much more evidence and information available then.

And, again, we're interviewing all kinds of people, everyone that knows him and trying to learn more about what that motive actually was.

BASH: Well, some outlets are reporting that the suspect lived with a transgender partner. Is that accurate? And are investigators looking at this part of his life as a possible motivation?

COX: Yes, definitely. And, yes, I can confirm that. I know that has been reported and that the FBI has confirmed that as well, that the roommate was a romantic partner, a male transitioning to female.

I can say that he has been very cooperative. This partner has been incredibly cooperative, had no idea that this was happening and is working with investigators right now.

BASH: And how is that relevant to the investigation when it comes to the motive? Are you learning that?

COX: Sure. Well, yes, that's what we're trying to figure out right now. Again,

it's easy to draw conclusions from that. And so, yes, we have got the shell casings, other forensic evidence that is coming in and trying to piece all of those things together.

BASH: And you said that the roommate is being very helpful. Has that individual explained to law enforcement what the mind-set of the shooter was and whether or not it is connected to his ideology or his situation as transitioning, as you just described?

COX: Yes, I'm not sure about that piece right now, Dana.

BASH: OK, so we're not sure if the fact that he was romantically involved, as you say, with his partner who was transitioning is relevant to the motive of the murder, based on the investigation?

[09:05:11]

COX: I -- well, sure. Again, all of these things are -- we're trying to figure it out. I know everybody wants to know exactly why and point the finger, and I totally get that. I do too.

BASH: Yes.

COX: And so I just want to be careful, as I haven't read all of the interview transcripts, and so we will have to wait and see what comes out.

BASH: Yes, I totally agree with you. We should all be careful, I guess, just because that's out there, there are a lot of people drawing conclusions, and so I'm just trying to get as many facts as we can glean from you, since you have been involved in the investigation.

And, on that, the social and gaming platform Discord released a statement saying its servers were in no way involved in Tyler Robinson's alleged plot to assassinate Charlie Kirk. But it did say there were -- quote -- "communications between the suspect's roommate and a friend after the shooting, where the roommate was recounting the contents of a note the suspect had left elsewhere."

Can you tell us about that note that the shooter left?

COX: So I can't yet. Again, those are things that are still being processed for accuracy and verification and will be included in charging documents.

BASH: OK, so, you -- but the note was found or the note was -- the contents of the note is known by law enforcement?

COX: Again, I can't share...

BASH: OK.

COX: ... any specifics. They're looking at everything right now.

BASH: Understood. I just want to go back to my first question about what you told "The

Wall Street Journal" about that this is a person indoctrinated with leftist ideology. And the reason why I think it would be great to be more specific is because your goal of trying to lower the temperature, you said that this is based on investigation and interviews with people who knew him.

Did they just use the term leftist ideology, or did they give specifics?

COX: Yes, there are -- I mean, there are conversations that were discussed specifically about Charlie Kirk, other conversations about the direction that this was going in.

And, look, I -- my job is just to tell people -- I don't -- I really don't have a dog in this fight. If this was MAGA and a radicalized MAGA person, I would be saying that as well. If the friends were saying that, I would be sharing that as well. That's not what they're sharing.

And so I do think it is important, again, to understand how someone gets radicalized like this. And, in this case, it happened with -- as much as people wish it wasn't or don't want it to be this, these are the facts that are being presented to us. If there are additional facts that would point otherwise, but family discussions, parents, this is what they're saying.

And these -- again, these things happen.

BASH: Yes.

COX: And so it's OK to have these discussions.

BASH: Listen, absolutely. And I'm just trying to get more facts, more details of the facts that you're putting out there.

One last question on that. You just said right now, which is something that you mentioned on Friday, is that he had discussions with family members about Charlie Kirk. Do you have specifics on what he was saying about Charlie Kirk to his family?

COX: Just not a fan. That's all I can say.

BASH: OK, not a specific reason why.

Let me turn to FBI Director Kash Patel and something he said yesterday. Governor, he said: "Against all law enforcement recommendations, we demanded the video footage and enhanced stills of the suspect be released to the public."

Who was recommending against releasing that video? Was it Utah law enforcement?

COX: No, again, this was just an internal discussion that was happening between everyone. We certainly never recommended against that. I just want everyone to know how all of this came together. This was a

co-lead operation. So the FBI was co-lead with the state. We worked very closely together. I think Director Patel would tell you it was flawless on the cooperation between the feds and the state and the locals.

I know there was a discussion, and it wasn't the state versus the feds or the locals versus the feds. It was the feds and the locals and the state versus the feds and the locals and the state. It was everybody just trying to decide, is this a good idea?

The reasons to release it, I think, are pretty obvious, right? It makes it easier for lots of people to see it and maybe find someone. The reasons not to is, you immediately get 10,000 tips and 50 different leads, and you have to chase all of them down. So that's the discussion, nothing out of the ordinary.

BASH: OK.

McKay Coppins from "The Atlantic" is reporting that President Trump called you after your remarks on Friday and that the president told you -- quote -- "You know, the type of person who would do something like that to Charlie Kirk would love to do it to us."

What was your response to the president in that conversation?

[09:10:02]

COX: Well, it was a long conversation, by the way. We talked about lots of things. But it was very sobering.

And, again, he's not wrong. I mean, he knows better than anyone. As someone who literally was injured by a bullet, I mean, a fraction of an inch away from being killed a year ago, he understands that better than anyone.

I would also just note that he also mentioned multiple times that he was grateful for the press conference and the message that we shared. And so I'm grateful that he's talked about nonviolence. He's quoted Charlie Kirk on the nonviolence issue.

I understand he's also very angry. And I get that. This is his close personal friend, and anger is a normal reaction.

BASH: So he was grateful for the press conference. Others in his orbit, Governor, were not.

Steve Bannon called -- talked about you calling to tone down the rhetoric, saying that -- the following, saying: "Spencer Cox is a national embarrassment. In a time where we need action, he tells us to sing kumbaya and hold hands with Antifa. This is not a time for treacly -- treacly" -- excuse me -- "pontificating. This is a time to declare Antifa a domestic terrorist organization and have the FBI go kick down some doors."

What's your response to Steve Bannon? COX: Well, again, Mr. Bannon is angry, and rightfully so. And I'm not

saying we have to just sing kumbaya and hold hands.

What I'm saying is, we actually should disagree. I think Charlie represented that better than anyone. Charlie said some very inflammatory things. And in some corners of the web, that's all people have heard. But he also said some other things about forgiveness. He said some amazing things about, when things get dark, putting down our phones, reading Scripture, going to church, talking to our neighbors.

He said that we have to engage. And that's what I appreciate most about Charlie Kirk, said, if we don't keep talking, that's when the violence starts.

BASH: Yes.

COX: Look, there are conflict entrepreneurs out there who benefit from radicalizing us. And I'm not one of those. I don't know that that's particularly helpful.

But he is right at this. We need to find out how this happened and we need to stop it from happening.

BASH: You called social media a cancer on our society. I know you have made talking about social media one of your key issues as governor of Utah. What should or even can government do to cure this cancer, as you call it?

COX: Well, there's some things that we're working on for sure. We have to get phones out of the classroom. We're doing that in Utah. Many states are doing that right now.

We have to hold these -- the largest companies in the history of the world with a combined trillion-dollar market caps, we have to hold them responsible for the algorithms that are pushing us.

Again, they're hijacking our agency. They're hijacking our free will with these dopamine hits, same chemical reaction as fentanyl, getting us addicted to these platforms. And outrage releases a dopamine hit, for sure. And they are taking no responsibility for this. In fact, they're suing the state of Utah to stop the most comprehensive social media reforms in the world's history that are happening right here.

And we absolutely have to hold them accountable.

BASH: Just real quick, you have said that we're in a dark chapter, and you're not sure if it's the end of a dark chapter or beginning of a darker one. Is your view of America right now shaken?

COX: Yes.

I mean, if your view of America is not shaken right now, then there's something wrong with you. This is a direct assault on America, a direct assault on every single one of us. Of course, it's an assault on Charlie, and we love Erika and her kids and his family. But this is us. And this is our chance. This is our moment. We have had periods like

this in the past. I mentioned the late '60s and early '70s. But if we're waiting for a president or a governor to get us off of -- out of this dark chapter, then it will never happen.

We can't -- I don't understand this, again, giving our agency up, waking up every day and saying, well, what did the president say today? That's going to determine how I react. Or what does governor say today?

BASH: Yes.

COX: That makes no sense to me.

Every one of us has to look in the mirror and decide, are we going to try to make it better or are we going to make it worse? And I just -- I pray that God will help us find him again and find our souls and find each other again.

BASH: Governor, thank you. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it.

COX: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: And up next, part of what the governor was just talking about. Elon Musk just tweeted to his 225 million followers -- quote -- "We must fight back or be murdered."

[09:15:03]

Republican Senator and Pastor James Lankford is next, and then our panel on what is bringing them hope in a week of violence and political finger-pointing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Charlie Kirk's assassination is the latest tragedy in an alarming rise in political violence, a growing trend that has many Americans worried that something really is fundamentally broken in the United States. So, what can be done to help fix it?

Well, here with me now is Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma.

Thank you so much for being here.

[09:20:00]

Before we get to that, or maybe as part of that, I do want to ask about what we're hearing from a lot of your colleagues, which is that they're concerned that political violence is the new normal and they're worried about their own safety. Are you?

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Yes, I have to pay attention to it. We have had 14,000 threats against members of Congress just this

calendar year. So, the numbers are rising dramatically. Obviously, we have had a home invasion of legislators in Minnesota, where they were murdered in their own home in the middle of the night. We have had -- the Democratic governor in Pennsylvania, his home was set on fire.

There are things that are occurring now that are different than what we have seen just two or three years ago. So, yes, we have to pay attention to this. But we also understand that it's important for all of us to be able to make sure that we're modeling rhetoric to be able to bring volume down.

But each person, if they're carrying out acts of violence, they are personally responsible for that act of violence. It's not just a cultural thing that's given them permission. That might have given them ideas, but that person is always culpable for their own decisions.

BASH: Yes, this is a very scary moment for our country.

And on the question of where we go from here, a top White House aide, Stephen Miller, is vowing to go after -- quote -- "radical left organizations" he says are fomenting violence. Listen to more of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: My message is to all of the domestic terrorists in this country spreading this evil hate, you want us to live in fear. We will not live in fear, but you will live in exile, because the power of law enforcement under President Trump's leadership will be used to find you, will be used to take away your money, take away your power and, if you have broken the law, to take away your freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Is that what you want to happen, Senator?

LANKFORD: Well, I would say if there's someone preparing to be able to take out an aggressive act against someone or to be able to violate the law, that is the role of law enforcement to be able to protect Americans.

We need to be careful now we talk about this, whether it is talking about white nationalists and preparing to be able to attack and to be able to carry out an attack, or to somebody like Timothy McVeigh that hated the government intensely and in my state 30 years ago murdered 168 people in Oklahoma City, or whether it is a leftist group that is interested in actually attacking a pro-life center that we saw several years ago, or whether it's carrying out some other act of terrorism or trying to be able to intimidate people.

We should have equal application of the law to saying, if you're choosing to be able to carry out an aggressive, violent act, that should be something that we actually try to interdict any time that we possibly can. Again, thinking something, talking about something is very different than carrying out that action.

We have freedom of speech, but you do not have the freedom to be able to plan, prepare, and carry out an attack against another American, no matter what your ideology.

BASH: Last week, just to follow up on what Stephen Miller is suggesting here, he said -- quote -- "The Democratic Party is not a political party. It's a domestic extremist organization."

LANKFORD: Well, they have a very different view than I do.

I'm a conservative Republican. I have Democratic friends that think very differently, vote very differently, but they're still my friend on it. So just having that ideology, just believing differently than some other American is not illegal. That's America. We don't all agree as next-door neighbors on different things.

But it is very different to try to plan, strategize to be able to carry out an act of violence on it. That is different. So we do have a celebration of differences in America. Quite frankly, Charlie Kirk literally has a -- has on his banners when he speaks on college campuses, "Prove me wrong," and would say, if you disagree with me, I'm going to seat you closer to the front so we can actually have dialogue.

The goal of it is to be able to talk about things. As Charlie Kirk said often, when the word stop, the violence starts. That's when people say, no more words, I'm going to now attack you. Let's keep talking about things and keep working through this.

BASH: The suspect's father recognized him in photos and confronted him, but ultimately persuaded him to confide in a youth pastor. Then the pastor, according to officials, contacted U.S. Marshals.

You are a pastor. Can you imagine a conversation like that?

LANKFORD: Yes, incredibly painful. I thought about that when that story came out. I have been in a lot of difficult conversations with families and with kids, where they were thinking about suicide, they were thinking about carrying out acts of violence, but nothing quite like that, to say, I just murdered someone publicly.

And that's a very different moment for that pastor and for that leader and, quite frankly, for that family. So I grieve for all of them. They all made very good decisions there to be able to say, I'm going to protect him, I'm going to protect the rest of the community by actually getting him to turn himself in, because very certainly law enforcement was circling around him and was identifying him at that moment, trying to be able to figure out who that is.

And it could have been very different for that arrest.

[09:25:03]

BASH: What responsibility do political leaders have to try to calm the rhetoric, to try to tone down the rhetoric, and not light a match on the -- not just the embers, but the fires that are already burning?

LANKFORD: Yes, Dana, I'm smiling because my staff has heard me say 1,000 times, when there's a fire, you pour water on it, not gasoline. That should be a basic principle.

And, right, now there are people that are angry. There are people that are upset, rightfully so. It has been an incredibly painful season in America, what we're seeing. And then to see someone who spoke out so often about, let's talk about our differences and get in situations and talk about it, to be murdered and assassinated in such a horrible, horrific way, there are a lot of people angry, a lot of people reacting with that, saying angry things on it.

I understand that and can appreciate that. But it is important for leaders to be disciplined, to be able to say, let's set the example and try to do things very differently. This is a spiritual battle that's happening in our nation right now. We have had people that are separating out from faith, people are separating out from core values that who we are as Americans.

And we are actually facing a time where people are trying to be able to determine who we're going to be and where we're going to go as a nation. You know I wrote a book recently called "Turnaround," where I'm challenging people, especially my own tribe on the right, to be able to say, let's talk about our anger. Let's talk about how we actually deal with different issues and how we can communicate these in a better way.

BASH: Senator, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. We could talk about this for hours, and it's incredibly important. Thank you.

LANKFORD: Yes, thank you. Glad to be able to do it. Let's keep praying for the nation and each other.

BASH: Thanks, Senator.

Charlie Kirk brought a new generation to the GOP. We're going to look at his impact on Gen Z, whether Democrats have anyone like that on the left.

My panel is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:24]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COX: That's the problem with political violence is, it metastasizes, because we can always point the finger at the other side. And at some point, we have to find an off-ramp, or it's going to get much, much worse.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The radicals on the left are the problem. And they're vicious and they're horrible. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Two very different messages. So, who will Americans listen to?

My panel joins me now, including two members of the United States House of Representatives, Republican Kevin Kiley and Democrat Sarah Elfreth.

I will start with you, Congressman Kiley. You are a Republican. And I would think that maybe where you stand politically is somewhere in between the extremes even in the GOP. So what is your sense of where your party not just should, but also is going to go?

REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): Well, I don't think that's a question about our party. I think it's a question from the whole country.

BASH: Right.

KILEY: I mean, this is a human tragedy. A life has been cut short at age 31. A wife has lost her husband. Two young children have lost their father.

But it's also an American tragedy. This is a political leader with millions of followers who has publicly executed in broad daylight while engaging in the purest form of expression in a democratic society, core political debate. And, as such, it's an assault on our entire country. It upends the very first principle of a democracy, which is that persuasion, rather than force, is the currency of power.

So the question is what happens from here. I think we all recognize that political divisions have been deepening in this country, that political violence is on the rise. And with so much anger right now and fear, this cycle could well escalate.

But I don't think it has to be that way. I think this can be an occasion for soul-searching as a country, where we ask ourselves, how can we pursue a different vision of politics? How can we all play a part in forming a better American community?

REP. SARAH ELFRETH (D-MD): I agree. And we're certainly at a crossroads in this nation as a community and as a country. And the political violence we saw this week with Charlie Kirk is the same way many Americans felt about the political assassination of Minnesota Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband in their home, the bombing of the Pennsylvania governor's mansion, the attempted assassinations on the president.

We are at a boiling point in this country. And it's incumbent on all of us, Kevin, myself, everybody watching at home, that we have to do something. We have to return to this collective humanity. And the whole idea of self-determination, the notion this nation was founded on, we have to get back to the choice we have collectively as leaders and as American people to turn the temperature down and find that collective humanity again. ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree.

I feel like this has been building for some time. And I was reflecting this morning. I was like, are we just going to turn the page or can we finish the book, right? Can we finish the book and say that we are starting a new conversation in this country?

And I think there's one thing about turning the temperature down, but there are some actions that we have to take, right? It's not -- it's always about -- you're a journalist, so you ask questions all the time. We don't ask people questions. As soon as David walked in the green room, I said, how's your wife? He says, how's your mom?

Not, what do you think about the bill? And we don't see each other as humans anymore. We see each other as ideologies. We don't see each other as maybe having some similarities just because you have an R or a D. I don't agree with most policies that the Republicans have. I don't agree with most things Charlie Kirk said.

[09:35:00]

I said before, I think that some of the things Charlie Kirk said were personally offensive to me, but Charlie Kirk did not deserve to be murdered. And we have to be able to say that. And if we cannot say that, I -- there will be people who disagree with me. You can disagree with me. That is America.

But...

BASH: Yes.

And, David, you have known Donald Trump for a very long time, helped get him elected the first time around in Pennsylvania. Do you think that what he is saying about the radical left over and over again, instead of sort of taking on a more traditional role of a president trying to calm everybody, is it personal anger because it was somebody he was very close to, is it something that is going to change or is that just who he is?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think it's a lot -- I think it's personal anger. I think it's a natural feeling at this point.

But there's this notion that pain is a debt that must be repaid in the same currency, right? And that's not something that I think is helpful at this point in time. I think Governor Cox is talking of an off-ramp and trying to figure out a way to -- where do we go? How do we change the narrative from this point forward?

And, look, I fear that structurally, our -- the body politic is not going to let that happen, because we have got these two representatives here very, very nice, right? They're -- but they're not indicative of the Congress writ large and the structure behind it; 435 House members, there's 20 competitive seats.

You are rewarded in the U.S. Congress for being extreme. You are rewarded in the U.S. Congress for running -- the algorithms, the fund- raising reward you for saying crazy shit, right? You are rewarded for that, right? If you are a moderate, normal person, you get lost in the cacophony that is the Congress.

Districts get drawn safer and safer so that people become more and more extreme. It is -- the system is built to produce those types of leaders. If you're a governor, you have to -- if you're a senator -- I saw Senator Fetterman on earlier. People who run for statewide offices have to be more appealing to -- they have to have a more calming message, because they have to appeal to both sides.

BASH: Yes.

URBAN: And so until we fix the structural deficiencies that is the House of Representatives...

BASH: Yes.

URBAN: ... like, I can't see -- you can't look to the Congress and say, oh, make things better, or they're going to lose. They're going to lose.

BASH: I want you to weigh in, because you're directly impacted by this.

KILEY: Yes.

BASH: In Texas, at the behest of the president, they're redrawing the seats.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Yes, but, Dana, but everyone's done that, right?

BASH: No, no, I'm saying, and now, in retaliation, you might lose your job.

KILEY: Well, I think I will be able to keep my job, whatever the district looks like. But I do think that the redistricting wars we're seeing is a manifestation of this deepening division where we can't even agree on the basic parameters of our politics.

So everything you're saying is right, but I don't think the situation is hopeless. I mean, in this country, we have shown over generations Americans have an amazing capacity to rise to the occasion, to take our circumstances and make the best of them.

So I do think that, when it comes to having a different kind of politics in this country, yes, at the level of Congress, we need to be seeking out common ground more and finding that common ground where we can. But I think all Americans have a part to play in it, so that it doesn't become politics...

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Well, yes, Governor Cox -- Governor Cox is right. The president, Governor Cox, us around this table, it's incumbent on everybody to do their part to lower the volume, to turn down the heat. You just can't look to one political leader to make our lives better.

ELFRETH: Can I just say, as a freshman in Congress, there is tremendous pressure to say controversial shit and to go viral and not to work together or find common ground or to...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So how do you push back against that?

ELFRETH: So, how you push back is by having conversations like we're having in the green room, by finding that common ground, by asking and requiring -- we can't expect our constituents and the American people to have more civilized conversations than we have in committee.

And so we have to reject, to your point, the structures here. We have a saying in my office. Just like doctors have a Hippocratic oath to do no harm, we as elected officials have to have a similar oath of do not divide. And anger and fear are the most powerful tools some people are using in this moment and have used for a while.

URBAN: But you get rewarded by that.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLISON: Yes, I also want to say, though, that we're talking about politics and we're also talking about policy. And then we need to talk about people. And they don't actually merge anymore.

When I started my career in politics, it was supposed to be about the people. You were supposed to develop your policies around what will actually improve the American people's lives. And no shade, but, like, I don't know if elected officials are doing that anymore. I think they are developing policies around politics.

And that -- I think the structures are wrong. I'd love to start talking about some democratic reforms that we could have in this country. But I also think that people are feeling pain from policies that elected officials are -- and then it is developing into this nastiness. And then you have terrible acts like we saw this week.

[09:40:00]

BASH: We're going to have to get a break.

I just want to ask you, how concerned are you for your safety as elected officials?

KILEY: Well, I think a lot of people are very concerned.

I mean, the level of threats have gone up. Of course, when you see just a shocking tragedy like this, it only adds to that. So I think that it is something that the speaker is trying to deal with in conjunction with the White House right now.

BASH: Go ahead.

ELFRETH: Yes, I mean, this week, in addition to the assassination of Charlie Kirk, we saw bomb threats at HBCUs...

BASH: Yes.

ELFRETH: ... bomb threats to the Senate president and speaker of the House's homes in my -- in Maryland.

And so this is real. But, also, the American people are scared and they're divided right now. And so, again, I just ask, just like Governor Cox, can we find that collective humanity again?

BASH: All right, everybody, stick around.

On a lighter note, next, we are going to hear -- we heard some of it. We're going to talk even more about the hope that everyone here has for the future.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:27]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Given everything that has happened this week, let's take a moment to go around the table and talk about what is keeping everyone hopeful in these dark times.

And, Congresswoman, you were both -- everybody was talking about your aspiration. But, in reality, what is something that you think that you can do or will do that will give not just you hope, but America hope?

ELFRETH: Well, I just want to start by saying, it's really hard, and this is a difficult question for each and every one of us in this moment. These are dark times.

But I like to say at my town halls that we're trained as children in this country not to talk about politics or religion, and the product of that is, we're really bad about talking about politics or religion, and so we just can't communicate with each other anymore.

What is giving me hope is maybe this is the moment, after so much gun violence, so much political violence, is this the moment, is this the turning point that we can turn the page not just temporarily, but in the long term?

And I just encourage people, continue to participate. Lean in. Show up to those town halls. Engage with your members of Congress. Hold us accountable to the standard that you want in your representatives.

BASH: Not everyone's having town halls.

ELFRETH: Yes, I have the -- I have one tomorrow night. And just continue to be...

BASH: You're not canceling it? You're doing -- going ahead with it?

ELFRETH: It's a telephone town hall. We're going to do an in-person town hall in October.

But tensions are high. But we have a role in cooling it down.

KILEY: Yes, I mean, one of my favorite things that I do as a member of Congress is make recommendations for the military service -- service academies for young people.

And it's always very inspiring to see these young high school students who say, I want to serve my country. Just last week, I met with the young people in my district who went to Boys and Girls State, which is sort of like a week long mock student government. These are kids who are passionate about civic engagement.

So there is so much reason for hope. I mean, this is the greatest country in the world. We have the power to raise living standards like at no time in history right now. And throughout our history, we have overcome enormous challenges. And we have always done so by renewing our commitment to America's founding ideals.

So I think, at this moment, what we really need is to revive and reanimate the institutions of self-government that were the great gift of our founders. I think that too much of politics has become hyperfixated on the shouting match of national politics and not enough about ordinary citizens engaging in their own communities at the local level.

And I think also we need to look at what's going on with our young people in terms of how they are inheriting those civic institutions. So I heard the governor talking earlier. I think getting rid of cell phones in schools is a good idea. I have advocated for teaching about the history and purpose of the First Amendment more in our schools, as well as our universities.

And I think maybe it's time to have a conversation about something like a universal service opportunity or requirement, like many other countries have, to give people hands-on experience with civic engagement at an early age.

ALLISON: OK, I always have an answer to what gives me hope. It's a question I ask.

But I am really -- I am struggling. And the thing that I can just do is look inward and try and be the best version of myself. I can't ask somebody to do something I'm not willing to do. And I will be honest. After the 2024 election, I retracted, I retreated, and I wasn't willing to have certain conversations with people that I disagreed with because I just didn't want to expend the emotional capacity.

And I think a lot of people are there. And so the thing that is giving me hope is, this past week, I have probably reached out to more people that I disagree with than I agree with. And I'm going to make that commitment for myself, as I hope others will do.

URBAN: Yes, listen, I think the congressman makes a great point.

America is a tremendous country. We have been in many, many dark times before in our nation's history, the assassination of President Lincoln. In the '60s, we had three great leaders struck down in a very short period of time. And we have rebounded each of these times and become a better country moving forward. I'm hopeful that that's the case here.

As a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, I like to think that every time I visit my alma mater, you see everything that's right with America at those institutions, at the Naval Academy, at Boys and Girls State, a lot of these places. The best and the brightest go and are looking for the better angels in society and in our country.

And so I think we look to those places as models of what we can be doing right and we should be doing more of.

BASH: Well said, one and all.

Thank you all for being here. Appreciate it.

Not to be Debbie Downer, but one of the challenges to accomplishing everything you all said is this, social media, designed to send you down a rabbit hole, send your children down a rabbit hole. Is there a way to stop it?

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:54:32]

BASH: And now a word about social media. It started as a way for people to make connections, give updates about our lives, or reconnect with old friends.

But now the social media companies' algorithms feed us what they think we want to see. It gets to the point where people often don't see opposing ideas that may challenge their own views, unless it's through the lens of attacking or mocking the other side, and the cycle keeps going.

We get deeper and deeper into our own information loops and political ecosystems. Ben Shapiro, the conservative commentator and friend of Charlie Kirk, said on The Free Press podcast this week -- quote -- "how social media works is a disaster area. There is no question it is making the world a worse place."

[09:55:13]

Now, he was careful to say he isn't calling for censorship. The question is whether it's time, maybe well past time, for social media sites to think long and hard about the way they manipulate what people see on the computer they carry in their pocket, especially young people.

Charlie Kirk's online fluency made him a political star, but he also advocated putting the phone down once in a while to find peace. Here's more advice from Democratic Senator Brian Schatz. He said -- quote -- "Pull yourself together, read a book, get some exercise, have a whiskey or walk the dog or make some pasta or go fishing or just do anything other than let this algo pickle your brain and ruin your soul."

Amen to that.

Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.

Fareed Zakaria talks with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy next.