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State of the Union
Interview With Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI); Interview With Rep. Buddy Carter (R-GA); Interview With National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett; Interview With Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D-IL); Interview With Sen. Ruben Gallego (D-AZ). Aired 9-10a ET
Aired October 05, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Plan for peace?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a big day.
TAPPER: Growing hope for a cease-fire deal in the Middle East. Next, my exclusive interview with President Trump. Does he have agreement from both sides on a deal?
And dragnet, a helicopter, military-style raids, children separated from their parents in Chicago, all part of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): Trump's treasonous words are leading to treasonous actions.
TAPPER: But Democrats say they're fighting back. Governor J.B. Pritzker joins me exclusively.
Plus: standoff.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We're trying to get the Democrats to do their job, and they won't.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Democrats remain ready and willing to work with the other side.
TAPPER: As the shutdown enters day five, President Trump threatens to slash funding to punish Democrats. When will Americans feel the pain?
Trump's top economic adviser, Kevin Hassett, is ahead, and then Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego responds.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is praying for peace.
We begin with breaking news, my exclusive new interview with President Trump on the prospect for a cease-fire deal between Israel and Hamas almost two years to the day after the brutal Hamas attacks on Israel, as the president sends out a negotiating team to try to hammer out the details of this deal in which Hamas has agreed to return the Israeli hostages, but several points remain quite unresolved.
The president answered my questions on text about his hopes for this nascent deal. I asked him: "What happens if Hamas insists on staying in power in Gaza?"
The president said: "Complete obliteration."
Then I said: "I assume you saw that Senator Lindsey Graham interpreted Hamas' response as a rejection, since Hamas insisted on no disarmament, keeping Gaza under Palestinian control and tying hostage release to negotiations. Is Lindsey Graham wrong?"
The president said: "We will find out. Only time will tell."
I asked him: "When will you know if Hamas is truly committed or just stringing the world along? And is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on board with ending the bombing, as you called for, and whatever else you need him to do to make this peace proposal a reality?"
The president said: "Yes on Bibi, soon on the rest."
I said that: "I thought the Arab League calling on Hamas to not be part of any future leadership in Gaza, Palestine, was a remarkable step. Are they committed to seeing your plan implemented and will they help with funding and a law enforcement presence or whatever is needed?" I said I hoped peace would become a reality.
The president said "I hope" and that he was working hard.
I also asked the president: "How do you think the government shutdown is going to end?"
He said: "Good. We are winning and cutting costs big time."
I asked a few other questions on text. Still waiting for a response on those, Mr. President.
We are going to hear more about the president's plans for the shutdown in a moment from one of his top economic advisers, but, first, let's turn to the crackling tinderbox that is the city of Chicago this weekend.
Last night, the president announced he is authorizing 300 members of the Illinois National Guard to -- quote -- "protect federal officers and assets" in Chicago, over the objections of the state's Democratic governor, J.B. Pritzker.
Just moments ago, the homeland security secretary responded to Chicago's mayor, who called ICE's actions -- quote -- "dangerous and reckless."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: People on the streets are clapping as we do our work. They're clapping as these officers are arresting these bad criminals. This is a war zone. His city is a war zone, and he's lying so that criminals can go in there and destroy people's lives.
Where we have gone, we have made it much more free. People are much safer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Joining us now to discuss, Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker, what's your response to Secretary Noem? And, as a practical matter, since you oppose this troop deployment, is there anything you can do?
PRITZKER: Well, good morning, Jake.
And let me just say that the secretary doesn't know what she's talking about. She, frankly, says that people are clapping. They're not. They're booing her on the street. And they're booing ICE and CBP. They're marching -- CBP marching on a beautiful Sunday in Michigan Avenue in downtown Chicago.
[09:05:00]
They're raiding neighborhoods, where, instead of going after the bad guys, they're just picking up people who are brown and black and then checking their credentials: Are you a U.S. citizen?
I don't know about you, but I don't carry around papers that say I'm a U.S. citizen. So, you can imagine. People are getting detained, they're getting arrested, U.S. citizens. And they did this, of course, when they raided a building in the middle of the night in South Shore, 130 people that were emptied out of this building.
They were going after a few gang members. And, instead, they broke windows, they broke down doors, they ransacked the place, and there were people that were held, I mean, elderly people and children zip- tied, elderly people held for three hours at a time.
They are the ones that are making it a war zone. They need to get out of Chicago. If they're not going to focus on the worst of the worst, which is what the president said they were going to do, they need to get the heck out.
TAPPER: So let's talk about that, the federal agents this week carrying out this massive nighttime raid on this apartment complex in Chicago.
Reportedly, they used drones, helicopters, military-style vehicles. A Border Patrol officer told "The New York Times" that snipers rappelled down to the roof of the building during the raid from a helicopter. What more can you tell us about this raid?
PRITZKER: Well, let me also mention that the Border Patrol shouldn't be there either. They're claiming that the shores of Lake Michigan are the border of the United States, and therefore they should be in Chicago.
They belong on the borders, truly on the borders, and where there may be some mayhem that they need to deal with, but it's not in the city of Chicago.
What happened at that building is shameful. Our Department of Children and Family Services are investigating what happened to those children who were zip-tied and held, some of them nearly naked, in the middle of the night, and, again, elderly people being thrown into a U-Haul for three hours and detained, U.S. citizens.
What kind of a country are we living in? And this raid at this building is emblematic of what ICE and CBP and the president of the United States, Kristi Noem and Greg Bovino, are trying to do. They want mayhem on the ground. They want to create the war zone, so that they can send in even more troops.
Now they're claiming they need 300 of Illinois' National Guard. Well, we didn't need them before they showed up. And what they ought to do is allow us to work with FBI, ATF, DEA, who are civilian law enforcement and understand how to target and take out the bad guys.
TAPPER: DHS says that CBP officers shot and wounded a woman in Chicago yesterday after, they say, she allegedly rammed a law enforcement vehicle and agents were boxed in by multiple cars.
The spokesperson for DHS, Tricia McLaughlin, accused Chicago police of leaving the scene and refusing to assist agents in securing the area. What do you know about this incident? Were federal agents boxed in and assaulted?
PRITZKER: Well, we don't have a lot of facts.
What happens in these sorts of incidents is, typically, ICE puts out a press release before anybody else can speak with the press, and then it gets reported on social media and elsewhere. Remember, these are the same folks who killed a person, an unarmed person, just a couple of weeks ago in Franklin Park.
At first, they said that the officer had been threatened with his life. The reality of it and the truth of it has now come out, and that wasn't the case. They killed somebody. So, here, it's really hard to know exactly what the facts are. And they won't let us access the facts. They are just putting out their propaganda, and then we have got to later determine what actually happened.
TAPPER: Trump is also trying to deploy the National Guard to Portland, Oregon. After a federal judge there appointed by Trump, I should note, temporarily blocked that effort, top White House adviser Stephen Miller blasted that ruling as -- quote -- "legal insurrection" and said -- quote -- "The deployment of troops is an absolute necessity to defend our personnel, our laws, our government, public order, and the republic itself" -- unquote.
What did you think when you saw that statement from Stephen Miller?
PRITZKER: Well, let's back up and remember this judge is a Trump- appointed judge.
This judge actually said what I think should be said about all of what Trump, Donald Trump, is doing, which is, it's untethered from the facts. That's what the judge said, that what the government is doing, what Trump is doing is untethered from the facts. That's the case.
He was claiming that the -- it's mayhem on the grounds of -- on the streets of Portland. He's saying that Chicago is a war zone. None of that is true. They're just making this up. And then what do they do? They fire tear gas and smoke grenades, and they make it look like it's a war zone.
[09:10:01]
And they get -- people on the ground are, frankly, incited to want to do something about it, appropriately. I mean, if you were on the ground and you're having tear gas pellets fired at you, as they have been doing in Broadview, Illinois, you want to react, you want something to happen.
And, unfortunately, they're using every lever at their disposal to keep us from maintaining order.
TAPPER: Before you go, sir, we're on day five of the federal government shutdown, with Democrats refusing to support the Republicans' short-term spending package without some concessions.
Do you think Democrats should keep the government shut down indefinitely, even if the president follows through on his threat to permanently lay off federal workers, thousands of them, and he continues to withhold even more federal funding for blue states like Illinois?
PRITZKER: Republicans control the federal government. They control the White House. They control the Congress. They can do whatever they want.
They're choosing to shut down the government. They're choosing not to discuss things with Democrats. Remember, Donald Trump is the guy who supposedly wrote the book "The Art of the Deal" and says he's the greatest dealmaker ever. And yet he's unwilling to sit down and make a deal with Democrats.
He only needs eight Democrats. He can't seem to muster that. But he's unwilling to even discuss anything. And, instead, he wants to shut down the government. It's wrong. What he ought to do is make sure that the health care that people need is guaranteed to them, that those subsidies that people depend upon for health care are put back.
And he's unwilling to do that. He's been trying to take away health care from Americans since before he became president. He's effectuating it now. And what he ought to do is just sit down, make a deal, put those back, those subsidies back, help people get health care, and reopen the government.
TAPPER: The spending bill, the government spending bill, is just a seven-week spending bill. The Democrats could allow the government to reopen and then see what happens in those seven weeks, if Democrats -- if Republicans are actually willing to deal with them on those Obamacare subsidies. You don't think it's worth it, though?
PRITZKER: Look, this discussion happened back in April. It's happening now. It's going to happen again.
The reality is that Democrats need to stand up, speak out, and the president needs to make a deal. And he's supposedly an expert at that. Let's see.
TAPPER: J.B. Pritzker, Democratic governor of Illinois, thank you for joining us, sir. Appreciate it.
PRITZKER: Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: With the government shut down, is President Trump still planning to lay off tens of thousands of federal workers? His top economic adviser joins us next.
And then Senator Ruben Gallego, Democrat of Arizona, has a message that he thinks his party needs to hear. He's coming up too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:16:55]
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
As you saw from our exclusive text interview, President Trump this weekend told me that his party is -- quote -- "winning the shutdown and cutting costs big time," as, five days in, his administration is looking to make things as painful as possible for Democrats and maybe even their voters.
What's next? Joining us now is the president's top economic adviser, Kevin Hassett.
Kevin, thanks so much for joining us.
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: So the White House said on Friday that discussions are still under way between President Trump and OMB Director Russell Vought on identifying cuts to agencies and layoffs, permanent layoffs, of federal workers. The White House said these cuts could come as soon as Friday. Nothing's been announced yet.
Are these layoffs still coming? How many people could lose their jobs? What agencies are we talking about?
HASSETT: Right.
Well, what we can say is that everybody in the White House wants that not to happen. What we want is, we want the Democrats to come forward and to make a deal that's a clean continuing resolution that gives us seven more weeks to talk about these things.
But the bottom line is that, with Republicans in control, the Republicans have a lot more power over the outcome than the Democrats. And the Democrats need to show some leadership, as Senator Fetterman has, and step up and give us the sort of moderating outcome that The Federalist Papers thought senators would do.
You remember, in Federalist 63, both Madison and Hamilton said the senators are actually the voice of reason. They're the guys who get things to be moderated, to calm down. And as I look at this Democratic Party, we have already had this Senate controlled by Republicans to defeat more of President Trump's nominees than were for the whole four years for Biden not accepted by this.
So they're basically marching in lockstep with Chuck Schumer. And I think that what the president's hoping for is that senators that have read The Federalist Papers and understand their view in The Federalist Papers that they need to stand up and be the moderating influence, is, it's time for them to do that and to moderate this party that's run really far to the left of where it used to be.
TAPPER: It doesn't sound as though they're following your advice there. So are these layoffs definitely happening? Because Russ Vought said on Wednesday it would happen within one to two days, and still nothing.
HASSETT: Well, again, I think that, if the president decides that the negotiations are absolutely going nowhere, then there will start to be layoffs.
But I think that everybody's still hopeful that, when we get a fresh start at the beginning of the week, that we can get the Democrats to see that it's just common sense to avoid layoffs like that, to avoid the $15 billion a week that the Council of Economic Advisers says will harm GDP if we have a shutdown, and also just all the payments for rent payments and so on that people won't be able to make because they're not getting paid.
And so I think that we think the Democrats, there's a chance that they will be reasonable once they get back into town on Monday. And if they are, then I think there's no reason for those layoffs.
TAPPER: President Trump said on TRUTH Social that he had a meeting with Russ Vought to -- quote -- "determine which of the many Democrat agencies he recommends to be cut."
What exactly does the president refer to when he refers to Democrat agencies? I'm not sure what that means.
HASSETT: Yes, I guess that's shorthand for the agencies that generally are the favorites of the Democrats. [09:20:02]
And I think we have all got our favorite agencies. Like, for me, it's the Council of Economic Advisers. And I think that President Trump and Russ Vought are lining things up and getting ready to act if they have to, but hoping that they don't.
TAPPER: Republican senators have been expressing concerns about how the Trump administration seems to be targeting funding for projects in blue states.
Vought paused funding for major infrastructure projects in New York City and Chicago, canceled money for climate change projects mostly in states with Democratic governors. Republican Senator Susan Collins said this is not appropriate. Republican Senator Thom Tillis warned it could 100 percent backfire against Republicans.
You must have concerns about the precedent being set here. I mean, government shutdowns are not uncommon, and some day a Democrat is going to be working in the building behind you.
HASSETT: Well, that is exactly what's happened in the past, and though -- but think about the contrast and The Federalist Papers discussion that we just had.
Susan Collins came out and she said, I don't like this action that the president's taking. That's the kind of independent voice in the Senate that the Senate is supposed to give, and yet the Senate different Democrats are marching in unison towards, like, destruction like lemmings saw off a hill, off a cliff.
And so -- and so I think that, in the end, that it's natural to put more pressure on the states where the senators are being intransigent, so the senators themselves see the costs that they're imposing on the American people. I think that's completely logical.
TAPPER: You keep talking about The Federalist Papers. I mean, what do you think -- what do you think Alexander Hamilton will make of the president just stopping the funding of projects that have been authorized, appropriated, gone through Congress, House-Senate conference committee, the president signed off on it, he just -- and the unilateral executive just cancels those projects?
I don't -- I don't know that Hamilton would approve of that or John Jay or Madison.
HASSETT: Well, Hamilton would approve of us not spending money that's not appropriated. And that's what's happened right now because the government shut down.
I also suspect that, if he were alive today, that he'd be disappointed in the Yankees game, but...
TAPPER: So, let me ask you, this is obviously urgent, and you're saying President Trump finds it urgent and thinks it's important. Is he talking to Democrats? In the past, he has talked about, when he wasn't president, how this is the responsibility of the president to roll up his sleeves, get to work, it's an example of failed presidential leadership if there's a shutdown.
This is the guy -- you heard J.B. Pritzker say, this is the guy who wrote "The Art of the Deal." He prides himself on his dealmaking. Is he involved? Is he talking to Schumer? Is he talking to Jeffries?
HASSETT: I mean, the president is doing the work of the American people every day an amount of energy that is really awe-inspiring. He's also working with James Braid, who's the head of Leg Affairs for us.
And we in the White House ourselves are taking calls regularly with senators on both sides of the aisle. And so I think that, yes, conversations are continuing. And we're hopeful that this will have a positive resolution really soon.
TAPPER: That doesn't sound like he's talking to Democratic leaders.
But let me -- let me ask you a question, because this is what the Democrats say is the main reason they're using their leverage in this way. At the end of this year, the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare subsidies are set to expire.
It is just a fact that if nothing happens to extend them or whatever, that the health care costs four millions of Americans will skyrocket. Analysts from the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 80 percent of all Obamacare subsidies go to people in states that President Trump won in 2024.
Republican Congressman Don Bacon told me that there's room to compromise here because tons of Republicans are going to not be able to afford their coverage when these subsidies expire. Why not just lean into this, come up with some sort of compromise, and then end the shutdown?
HASSETT: Well, now is not the time to have that debate. Now is the time to keep the government open and not hold all these government workers, especially in Virginia and Maryland, hostage.
And so that debate is a debate that can happen. I remind that these Obamacare subsidies were passed by Democrats and set to expire this year because they were viewed as an essential emergency action during COVID. And whether they should expire or not, look, in fact, like, the duty of keeping them going permanently was theirs back then when they passed the action.
And they didn't because they thought it would be too expensive. And so I think that you get a clean resolution and then discuss this matter in the normal course of action. That's the way the Congress should work.
TAPPER: Before you go, I'm really curious what you think about this Treasury Department development of a $1 commemorative coin for the U.S.' 250th birthday.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: U.S. Treasurer Brandon Beach shared draft images of the coin, and it bears the image of the current president, President Trump, this despite the fact that in 1866 law enshrined in the U.S. Code says a living person cannot be featured in U.S. currency.
This is -- obviously dates back to concerns about wanting to avoid the appearance of a monarchy. Is President Trump planning on changing that law?
[09:25:01]
HASSETT: Right.
The fact is that we have got great plans for the 250th anniversary. And, In fact, you should watch the festivities today, where President Trump is celebrating the Navy.
And in terms of reading through what is and isn't available under that law, there have been times in the past where commemorative coins have been printed with the faces of living people. And so I think that they're on solid ground if they decide to do that.
TAPPER: Kevin Hassett, thank you so much for joining us today. Appreciate it.
HASSETT: Thank you.
TAPPER: My next guest is not mincing words about President Trump. Does he think his own party will follow his lead as the effects of the shutdown start to bite?
Arizona Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego is right here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
So far, Democrats are holding firm as the government shutdown stretches into a second week. But, as Americans start to feel the impact, might that change their calculus?
[09:30:02]
Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona.
Thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it.
So we're now in day five of this federal government shutdown. You have been part of the talks happening on sidelines as senators look for a way to end this standoff. Are you closer to -- any closer to an actual deal that might end the shutdown?
SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): At this point, no. I mean, we're still going to continue talking. And, look, we know that
our Senate Republicans also want to get to a deal. They understand that 24 million Americans are going to have their premiums doubled starting November 1, when they start, have to go into open enrollment, and most of them are going to be from red states.
There's a deal to be had here, right? But we need to see them actually urgently moving, because we don't want Americans on November 1 to start thinking about whether or not they should even reenroll. What we're hearing right now that, if we don't get these premiums correct, if we don't get the subsidies there, four million Americans are just going to lose their health care altogether.
And that doesn't even count all the private sector premiums that are also going to go up because of the fact that we're going to kick off 24 million Americans from doubling in their price. So they're going to end up getting their prices doubled.
TAPPER: But is there a deal to be had in some sort of separate deal with John Thune or with Speaker Johnson, where they will bring up legislation that you're working on that will amend this, but it is a pledge not necessarily tied to the clean congressional resolution?
GALLEGO: Look, we have been asked for something like that. And I think a lot of us have said, like, open up with the government for a couple weeks before November 1, so that way we could make sure we have some resolution.
The problem is, like, who are we dealing with? Mike Johnson has sent away the Republicans to hide the Epstein list. Donald Trump, "The Art of the Deal," the man who wrote the book, cannot be found anywhere. We don't know who he -- or we can even speak to over there at the White House, because he's not involved.
And last we heard from our leadership talking to him, he was unaware about how serious these ACA subsidies are and how it will affect not just blue America, but also red America. So there is negotiations to be had. But two out of the three people that need to be involved are gone and not in play right now.
TAPPER: So what's interesting about this government shutdown is that it's the Democrats who have caused the shutdown. I understand why, but I'm just saying, usually, it's the Republicans causing the shutdown.
As a Democratic member of the House, during a different funding fight a decade ago, you said -- quote -- "We should pass a #cleanbudget bill with #noriders. Hardworking families can't afford another government shutdown."
And Republicans say that's what they did. This is a clean budget bill with no riders, and you all voted against it.
GALLEGO: Well, first of all, it's not clean.
Number two, as you pointed out there about hardworking families, 24 million Americans are going to have their rates increase, almost doubled. Four million are going to lose. In Arizona...
TAPPER: Their insurance rates, yes.
GALLEGO: Yes. And, in Arizona, up to 100,000 are going to lose their insurance, and then even more than that are going to have their insurance rates doubled, sometimes to thousands of dollars per month, sometimes even per year.
This is something that we cannot allow to happen. Right now, everything's too expensive to begin with. You go to Costco, you go to Safeway, you go to Fry's -- these are the grocery stores in Arizona. Everything's expensive, groceries expensive.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: What's it called?
GALLEGO: Fry's.
TAPPER: Fry's, OK.
GALLEGO: Yes.
Grocery stores are expensive, everything else, so that now this president, in addition to everything, what he's already done with the tariff, which has already caused prices to increase, is going to cost another increase to working families in this country; 24 million Americans are going to get hit, hit with the Trump tax on their insurance policy starting November 1.
So that's why we want to get this done before November 1.
TAPPER: Here are the Republican leaders talking about your demand and the Democrats' demand to address this issue of these increased Obamacare subsidies. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Some of the issues that they bring to the table and they're demanding immediate, easy answers for are not easy answers. We can't snap our fingers and he and I and two other leaders in a room go, oh, well, this is the resolution. That's not how it works.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): We can't make commitments or promises on the COVID subsidies, because that's not something that we can guarantee that there are the votes there to do. But what I have said is, I'm open to having conversations with our Democrat colleagues about how to address that issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So they're saying it's a complicated issue, it's going to take time to resolve, they're willing to work with you if you reopen the government. That's not enough?
GALLEGO: We certainly have already said a couple of times, we're willing to work with you, but we have to get this done by November 1. The American family needs certainty.
By November 1, if we do not get these subsidies, people are going to get their open enrollment. They're going to see their premiums are going to double, all because these guys can't move fast. They certainly can move fast when they need a tax cut. They certainly can move fast when they want to back up the president.
They certainly can move fast to cancel Congress to hide the Epstein list and protect the president. But to actually take care of the American working family that's going to have their insurance premiums doubled, they seem to not be able to do it.
Well, what I see and I understand, they control the White House, the Congress, as well as the Senate. They certainly have been able to change the rules to get things done to benefit the richest of the rich in this country, but to take care of the middle class, they seem to have -- to be impotent.
Well, there's a time and a place for all that. Right now, I'm telling them, if we can get together, get something done before November 1, then you can have a great deal. But the fact is, they want to wait until after November 1, after people have already gone through open enrollment, after they have to either pay their insurance premiums or they're going to just not get insurance anymore, and then they want to negotiate for the American public -- I'm sorry, for the American middle class.
[09:35:13]
And I'm not going to do that. I want to negotiate for the American middle class right now.
TAPPER: So some of your colleagues are refusing their paychecks while the government's shut down. You told NBC -- quote -- "I'm not wealthy and I have three kids. I would basically be missing mortgage payments, rent payments, child support, so it's not feasible. Not going to happen" -- unquote.
I saw that you got into a little Twitter war with...
GALLEGO: Yes, because this is -- these are all gimmicks. These are all gimmicks.
Most of these senators are millionaires to begin with, right? And all these congressmen that are complaining about it, they already got paid for the whole month. So, it's all one big gimmick. And when these people are complaining about this or that, what's going on is that they're not actually focusing on all these Americans that are going to lose their insurance.
TAPPER: Right, but the government workers who are furloughed or maybe even laid off permanently, it hasn't happened yet, but it could, I mean, that's happening now.
And they also have kids and mortgage payments and rent payments and child support. GALLEGO: Look, we're going to do -- every time this happens, we
always go back and we back-pay our government workers.
What's not going to happen is, if we don't get any action, 24 million Americans aren't going to get their premiums back; 24 million Americans will get their insurance rates doubled, and/or if this doesn't actually get reauthorized, then you're going to have 24 million Americans that are going to always have their insurance rates doubled or even beyond that going forward.
There's a short time period we have to take care of these middle- class, hardworking Americans. And, unfortunately, our fellow workers are caught in this mix.
TAPPER: How long could this last, do you think, this shutdown?
GALLEGO: We need to make sure that the premiums stay where they are, that we have the cost of insurance stay as low as possible. And we're going to negotiate that for that to happen. We need to have partners that are there.
Where is Donald Trump in this? I have no idea.
TAPPER: But could this last until the end of the year? I mean, how long are you guys willing to take this?
GALLEGO: I can't speak for everybody else, but I'm going to make sure that, no matter what happens at the end of this day, 24 million Americans do not see their insurance rates doubled, because that's what's going to happen, all because a couple Republicans refuse to act, Donald Trump refuses to get off the golf course.
And all they want to do is continue their Project 2025 agenda, which is to get rid of the Affordable Health Care Act.
TAPPER: We're out of time, but you're a veteran, so I would be remiss if I didn't ask you what you thought of Secretary Hegseth's and President Trump's discussion before the generals at Quantico.
GALLEGO: I think it's absolutely ridiculous.
It was -- number one, it politicizes more the military, which is what you don't want to do. As someone who has sat in briefings of that nature, it really tells you what's happening. It's definitely clear that Secretary of Defense Hegseth is trying to compensate for something.
Everything he did at that meeting, he could have sent in an e-mail, and he was just trying to, I don't know, show force. And he looked very weak in the process.
TAPPER: What do you think he's trying to compensate for?
GALLEGO: I think the fact that he doesn't know what he's doing. He knows that, within the Department of Defense, people think he's a laughingstock, and that he is probably one of the worst secretary of defense that this country has had.
And I think he's trying to exert his power over some of these generals. But it's not going to help, when he clearly is way out of his league.
TAPPER: All right, Senator Ruben Gallego, Democrat of Arizona, thanks for being here.
GALLEGO: Thank you.
TAPPER: Appreciate it, sir.
Coming up next, your Sunday funnies with my panel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN JOST, ACTOR: Thanks to failed liberal policies, our Army has never been gayer, and yet it's also never been fatter.
(LAUGHTER)
JOST: Make that make sense.
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[09:42:52]
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MICHAEL CHE, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": A Trump adviser said ICE agents will attend the Super Bowl after Bad Bunny was announced as the halftime performer, you know, to catch all those farmworkers who can afford Super Bowl tickets.
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TAPPER: Welcome back to State of the Union.
"Saturday Night Live" poking fun at the conservative backlash after it was announced that Bad Bunny would headline the Super Bowl halftime show.
My panel is here.
I have to say, and I'm not going to spend the whole time talking about Bad Bunny, but I want to play some sound of the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security talking about Bad Bunny being named as a Super Bowl performer. We don't have the sound.
OK, well, this is what Secretary Noem said: "They suck, and we will win, and God will bless us and will stand to be proud of ourselves at the end of the day. They won't be able to sleep at night because they don't know what they believe and they're so weak and we will fix it."
I guess he's talking about the NFL. What?
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, what is happening here?
Listen, Bad Bunny is extremely popular in the Latino community. And in a place, in a time when Republicans are trying to make inroads of Latinos, and they claim that they have, this is a bad political move. Also, it just doesn't make any sense. Undocumented immigrants are not going to the Super Bowl. They cannot afford it.
So the whole thing is just to send a message to try to scare the Latino community. And this is sort of race-baiting. And I think this is what Kristi Noem wants.
TAPPER: Right.
So we have a government shutdown, so let's turn to that. Democrats think public opinions behind them. Republicans think Democrats are going to shoulder the blame. What do you think, Congressman?
REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): Oh, there's no question about it. This is the Schumer shutdown.
This is a shutdown that was initiated by Chuck Schumer, Jon Ossoff, and the Democrats in the Senate. And it has been at the expense of our troops, who are not getting paid, and in the name of them trying to make sure that illegals get health care here in America, which is something Americans don't want, and which is something that the Democrats are going to lose on.
HINOJOSA: Democrats are not -- no.
TAPPER: Congresswoman? Congresswoman, you...
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I love Buddy, and we work together in a way very bipartisan.
It is a lie to say that we are trying to get illegal immigrants insurance. Already, the law does not allow them to get Medicaid or Medicare. Fact.
Two, 24 million across this country are going to lose insurance if we don't address this issue now. They're already getting the Affordable Act tax credit. They're already getting their insurance premiums in the mail. The exchange opens on November 1.
[09:45:10]
And I have -- my mother is in the hospital. And people are coming up and just telling me their stories, as I was sharing with you, Buddy.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So it is not true that illegal immigrants will not get some type of coverage. Emergency Medicaid services do indeed, as a combination of state funds
and federal funds, to reimburse hospitals. That's the argument that Republicans are making. Now, Congresswoman, we talked about the fact that we don't want Americans to lose their health care. I agree with you.
How about we redirect those emergency funds to cover more Americans, as we discuss gaps in your own district, gaps in the congressman's district? I think that's a bipartisan effort. Keep the government open so that we're not impacting troops, so that we're not impacting hardworking American families who do work for the federal government, so we're not also harming children who rely on SNAP benefits.
Keep it open. Let's try to compromise on health care.
TAPPER: So, in terms of who's getting blamed for it, "The Washington Post" has a poll. Who's responsible for the government shutdown? Trump and Republicans in Congress, 47 percent, Democrats in Congress, 30 percent, not sure, 23 percent.
So, I mean, that's just one poll, but more of them are -- more Americans are blaming you guys.
CARTER: Well, and they shouldn't be, because this is clearly the Schumer shutdown. This is a shutdown that the Democrats instigated, all in the name of trying to get health care for illegals.
And if you say they're not trying to do that, that is erroneous. They are wanting to reverse what we did in the Working Families Tax Act. And what we did was to make sure that illegals are not going to get Medicaid. What we did is...
TAPPER: Through Emergency Medicaid in hospitals.
CARTER: And through Medicaid, yes. And...
DINGELL: If someone's dying, they shouldn't be able to get medical care? Is that what we're saying? The only thing is allows is, if someone is in bad shape and they go to an emergency room, but they are not covered by Medicaid. They are not covered by Medicare already in the law.
CARTER: The Supreme Court has already ruled on that, and we know we have to do that.
But the point here is -- point here is, you're trying to reverse what we did.
DINGELL: It's Sunday. What does the Bible teach us? When I was sick, you took care of me. You're going to deny someone dying health care?
CARTER: No, we can't do that. The Supreme Court has ruled on that.
DINGELL: I know.
CARTER: And that's something... DINGELL: And that's all this does. It doesn't let illegals get health care.
HINOJOSA: Well, so this -- the same poll actually also has about 60 percent of people who self-identify as MAGA as supporting ACA subsidies and renewing those.
And so this is an easy fix here. Donald Trump is not dumb. He sees the polling. He sees that Americans want affordable health care. They don't want their premiums to go up, including his own base. And he just needs to come to the table, have some sort of deal to renew it, and then this whole thing is over. And I think that's an important point.
SINGLETON: But, Xochitl, the president, the majority leader in the Senate, the House speaker, all three Republican leaders have signaled to Democrats that they are willing to compromise, if at all possible, on health care.
Democrats aren't willing to come to the table by saying, we're going to keep the government open and let's discuss this until the end of December. We have time to figure this out. But the expectation of keeping the government closed for weeks and trying to figure out a complicated issue as health care doesn't make any sense.
HINOJOSA: No, they don't have time.
TAPPER: Well, let me ask you, this is an issue that would hit not just Americans in general, but it would especially hit MAGA voters. It would especially hit people in Republican states.
Is this an issue that you're willing to work with Democrats like Congresswoman Dingell to resolve this issue on the Obamacare subsidies expiring?
CARTER: We have been very clear that we're willing to negotiate. We want to talk about it, but you have got to open the government. Keep the main thing the main thing, and that is, get the government open so the troops can get paid. Get the government open so that we don't miss Social Security checks, so that we don't have veterans who are going without benefits.
DINGELL: We're not missing Social Security checks.
CARTER: Make sure -- open the government first. Then we will talk about the health care benefits.
TAPPER: Everything he just said, you could have said like a year or two ago or whenever the last -- I guess the last one was 2018.
But, I mean, that is what I heard from Democrats for all previous government shutdowns.
DINGELL: But we weren't running at a time that we have pocket rescissions, money that has been appropriated already by the Congress, authorized, isn't being spent on food lunches, on law enforcement. And we just want -- this is now. The exchange opens November 1. What
is our assurance? Where are our guardrails? We don't have any.
HINOJOSA: Can I...
SINGLETON: But you know what? The last time we were here, Democrats did say that Republicans aren't willing to compromise on whatever the issue was at the time.
TAPPER: The wall.
SINGLETON: That's right. They're going to cause significant harm because government isn't open, we're not able to take care of the requirements that people expect from the federal government.
Here we are in the same position again. I understand the Democrats' position, Congresswoman. I may not agree with all of them. I'm simply saying, I think Republicans are simply saying, let's keep the federal government open. That's our obligation number one. And then let's compromise on this complicated issue of health care.
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: So I think that the compromise needs to come either in tandem or like very close.
Let me tell you why. Jim Jordan and other Republicans have been on television essentially saying, this is not why we won the election. We won the election on the border. We won the election on other things. And it's not a priority for Republicans.
[09:50:11]
So, if you're a Democrat, why in the world would you risk health care going up for millions of Americans? And let me just say, it is very likely that some people in the Senate actually cave on this, Democrats that actually end up caving on this and give Republican the votes.
And I will say, if that happens and Republicans do not do not extend the subsidies, what will happen is, Republicans will be blamed for increasing costs immediately.
TAPPER: Very quick final word, sir.
CARTER: Look, this mess started when you didn't make the subsidies permanent. You wanted them to expire when they -- when the pandemic expired.
DINGELL: No.
(CROSSTALK)
CARTER: The pandemic is over with now. They need to go away. And, yes, we need to...
(CROSSTALK) DINGELL: We still have a health care crisis made worse by that big
blank bill.
CARTER: We need to negotiate this.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: All right, we're not going to resolve it right now.
CARTER: But we've got to open the government.
TAPPER: But I do appreciate everybody being here. Thank you. And thank you. Welcome to the panel. Hope to have you back again soon.
CARTER: Thank you.
TAPPER: Congresswoman, always good to see you.
A fired federal prosecutor tapes a note on his door, Martin Luther- style, on his way out -- his warning when we get back.
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[09:55:51]
TAPPER: On Wednesday, a federal prosecutor with the Eastern District of Virginia was fired, apparently because a random MAGA activist falsely accused him of pushing back internally against the indictment of former FBI Director Jim Comey.
Michael Ben'Ary is -- was the assistant U.S. attorney. He was in the middle of prosecuting a guy called Jafar. Jafar is a Pakistani terrorist with the terrorist group ISIS-K who was part of the attack at Abbey Gate that killed 13 U.S. service members and more than 160 innocent Afghans. Ben'Ary said that his firing will -- quote -- "hurt this case."
This is just the latest example of expert prosecutors and FBI agents being terminated for purely political reasons. Ben'Ary says the current Justice Department -- quote -- "leadership is more concerned with punishing the president's perceived enemies than protecting our national security" -- unquote.
I'm going to talk much more about this topic and more coming up with Fareed Zakaria in the next hour.
Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.
"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.
