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State of the Union

Officials: Person Detained After 2 Killed In Brown University Shooting; At Least 11 Killed In Attack On Australia's Jewish Community. At least 11 Killed in Attack on Australia's Jewish Community; Officials: Person Detained after 2 Killed in Brown University Shooting; Interview with Rep. Gabe Amo (D-RI); Interview with EVP of American Friends of Lubavitch Rabbi Levi Shemtov. Aired 8- 9a ET

Aired December 14, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:10]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington where we are tracking breaking news on two fronts.

Here in the U.S., an all too familiar scene. Another mass shooting in America, this time at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island. Two students are dead and another nine wounded after a masked gunman opened fire in a campus building. That happened. This -- that happened yesterday. This morning. Police say they have a person of interest in custody.

We're going to bring all of the latest to you soon. Meanwhile, overseas in Australia, another unthinkable scene. At least 11 people are dead, 29 more hospitalized after a terror attack on a Jewish event celebrating Hanukkah on Bondi beach. Officials declared this a terrorist incident targeting Australia's Jewish community. One perpetrator was killed and another is in custody.

We are tracking all these stories this morning, beginning with the latest on the investigation in Providence.

I want to start with our law enforcement experts, former FBI Director Andrew McCabe and former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow.

Thank you both for being here.

Andrew, let's start with you. The fact that we have what they are calling a person of interest in custody. Explain what that terminology means. And, you know, the fact that they're saying that there is a -- that they're breathing a sigh of relief

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yeah. Very a very a much needed sigh of relief, I'm sure. You know, as we, as we saw this manhunt begin. Immediately after the shooting. They had relatively little information about who the perpetrator may have been. We've seen one very brief video taken on a street that runs alongside the building where the shooting took place. And that video did not include any kind of frontal shots. No face -- face shots, nothing that would be easily identifiable.

So, they really began this manhunt with very little information reporting suggests that overnight they received some sort of a tip from the public. So, we can only assume that that's what brought them to the hotel where this person was taken into custody. You know, I think law enforcement is particularly careful about identifying people. As suspects in an ongoing investigation, because you never really know what you have on your hands, even when that person is in custody and is being questioned and processed the way we do with people who've been taken into custody.

So I think it's just an act of caution that they use the tag a person of interest. Excuse me. Obviously, this persons of interest, because of the information they received from the public. So we'll have to see how that plays out. But they seem to be exhibiting a fair amount of confidence here. Lifting the shelter in place order

BASH: Andy and Jonathan, stand by.

I just want to go to the scene. We do now have our own Brian Todd who is there.

Brian, you have some new information about this person of interest?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's correct. Dana, a law enforcement official here in Rhode Island has confirmed to me a short, a short time ago that the person who was apprehended at this hotel where I'm standing right now in the Providence area, that that person is the same person who is the person of interest that law enforcement officials in providence say is in custody.

Now, we, our team here witnessed the law enforcement activity here this morning in the overnight hours. It happened in the 3:00 am hour here at this hotel in Providence, Rhode Island area.

We witnessed at least 20 law enforcement personnel from the FBI, the marshals service and the local police converging on a room. We asked if this was in connection to the Brown University shooting incident. The U.S. Marshals official told us that a person detained was, detained in connection with that incident. We have just confirmed that that same person, that law enforcement and the mayor, Brett Smiley of Providence, announced a short time ago, is in custody, is the same person who was arrested here at this hotel in the early morning hours today -- Dana.

BASH: All right. Brian, very important development there. Thank you so much for that reporting.

And here with me now is the mayor of providence, Brett Smiley.

Thank you so much for being here. Mr. Mayor. Our hearts go out to you and to the entire community for the absolute trauma that you are -- and everybody is dealing with right now.

[08:05:01]

Let me just start with the latest. And you just heard Brian Todd, our reporter, who is up there in Providence, talk about the fact that we now believe that we -- we have video of the arrest because it just so happened that CNN was there when the person of interest was arrested and is in custody. What else can you tell us about that person?

MAYOR BRETT SMILEY (D), PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: So, we are in the middle of this investigation and there is no more that we can report at this time. It's really important that we share information when we have it, but also that we recognize that there's still a lot of work to do and details might change. And so, we don't want to have to later correct or retract anything that may have turned out to be inconclusive or inaccurate.

And so, right now all we can say is that a person of interest with regard to the event yesterday at Brown is in custody and we do believe, as I mentioned in my press conference just a few minutes ago, that the broader Providence community should breathe a small sigh of relief this morning. That's why we felt comfortable lifting the stay- at-home order, the shelter in place order. But we cannot confirm any additional details about that individual at this time.

BASH: Understood. Can you give any more details about a possible motive?

SMILEY: We can't give any details about the motive because we are still working with the individual who's in custody. But as officials from Brown have mentioned the building where this occurred had two final exams underway. We the president of Brown confirmed just a few hours ago that the shooting occurred in a classroom where a prep session was happening for an economics class who had a final exam forthcoming. And while it's the end of the semester, there's still students on campus.

And so, it was obviously in a both a laboratory and a classroom academic building. And, and was connected to the campus community.

And, for those who don't know, Brown is there's not a wall around Brown. There's not gates. It is integrated into our neighborhood. And it's part of what we love about our campus neighbors. You know, my neighbors, I live right on the edge of campus. My neighbors walk their dog through campus. It's very much open to the community, which is part of its strength.

And so it's a -- it's a really scary and shocking and sad event, not just for Brown, but for all of Providence.

BASH: Yeah, no question about it. Again, understanding that it is early and you want to be careful and I want to respect that. But can you just tell me broadly whether, you know, if this person of interest had any ties to Brown University?

SMILEY: We can't say that at this time, but as soon as we know more, we will share more. You know, yesterday evening, we put out a short video, and opened up our tip lines in conjunction with the FBI. And so, throughout the night from the moment that that was announced

through the early hours of this morning, we have been running down every possible lead and tip that we received. And thanks to the cooperation we've received and the additional resources we've received from other law enforcement agencies, we were able to, fully examine or flesh out the tips that were received. And so as -- as additional information becomes available, we'll be briefing throughout the day here on Sunday in Providence.

BASH: Can you expand on that? That was one of the things that I was interested in learning from you, which is that, yes, I watched you last night and you were very clear about putting the video out, asking the community for as much help as you could get. Did that move precipitate the arrest of the person of interest?

SMILEY: We -- the video itself it's too early to tell exactly what -- what triggered what thought, but, but the tip line, and the FBI's specific website that was set up, did generate information throughout the evening and into the early hours of the morning. And because of the incredible work of both Providence police, but all of our partners and law enforcement, we had the resources to be able to fully explore and look into, the tips that we did receive and that has helped us in this investigation. And so, as the individual who's in custody is interviewed and as we learn more, we will share and provide information to the community about how we got to this point when it's appropriate to do so.

[08:10:10]

BASH: Wow. So, it sounds like the tip line combined with the help that you've gotten on the law enforcement front, really led you to this situation.

SMILEY: The entire community has really stepped up in a -- in a productive and positive way, in addition to just rallying around, the eight individuals who are still in the hospital and obviously mourning the two lives that were lost. People also complied with the shelter in place order, stayed off the streets, allowed law enforcement to do its job to gather evidence, to work through the night.

And many people called in or uploaded information to those tip lines. All of those things together have brought us to the point where I guess at this point, about 18 hours or 16 hours after the initial call, that we are able to have someone in custody. And so again, when we're able to say so, we'll -- we'll provide more details about exactly the sequence of events that led us to today.

But we're deeply grateful. This is a special, tight knit community. And, and we've really rallied around everyone, both law enforcement and the victims and survivors in the last, half a day or day and a half or so.

BASH: Mayor Smiley, let's talk about the victims. Two students you announced were killed in this tragic attack. Another nine injured. Do you know or can you give us an update on how the nine injured who are at the hospital are doing? SMILEY: Yeah. So one of the individuals has already been discharged.

We mentioned sort of late in the day. Originally it was eight, then there was a ninth. The ninth survivor is not -- did not have a gunshot wound. They had fled the scene and later realized that they had received some shrapnel or other material that was a result of the shooting. And so their injuries were non-life threatening, and they have been released from the hospital.

The other eight remain in the hospital, seven are in stable condition. One is in critical but stable condition. All eight have either undergone surgery or are in surgery as we speak. And so, they're receiving excellent care at Rhode Island hospital, which is right here in providence. And later today, well, we're still working through some family contacts as some families were in transit. And so, once we've had a chance to notify all the families we will disclose information about the survivors to the community, but ask for everyone's respect just so that we can notify families first, of course.

BASH: Have you been able to get in touch with the two -- families of the two students who were killed?

SMILEY: No, I'll be doing that this morning, along with a trip to the hospital. I wanted to allow both the university to notify the families of the deceased, and then obviously, for the medical professionals to do what they needed to do first, as much as I want to be there for members of my community, I also don't need to be in the way when there are skilled professionals who have a job to do at the moment.

BASH: I understand. One last question on -- on that. The eight who are still in the hospital, are they all students?

SMILEY: Yes, they're all students.

BASH: Mr. Mayor, we know that this attack happened during a final exam review. Do you have any more details on what happened? First of all, how this individual got into the classroom? We have one report that the door was not locked. The outer door was not locked. And whether or not that is the protocol?

SMILEY: So, the Brown University provost yesterday reported and it is still the case that the exterior doors to the building, the Barus & Holley Building, were unlocked. It was 4:00 in the afternoon, and it was a Saturday, but its finals period. And there were two exams taking place along with other gatherings of students. This was a prep session.

And so, it is typical and customary that the buildings would be unlocked on the exterior doors. There were certainly some interior doors that were locked. This building is both lab space and classroom space.

And so, there wasn't a failure of protocol or anything.

[08:15:01]

This was a campus building that was being actively used in daytime hours and exam period.

And so, I can't speak to the doorway specifically to the classroom where the shooting occurred. Just because I don't know, but the exterior doors to the building themselves were unlocked and that that was not unusual for daytime hours for a building that was in active use.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, it's unfortunate that we're in the world that we're in, that unlocked doors are now probably going to be questioned when it comes to protocols.

You spoke this morning at a press conference about how all of our children today have to endure these school shooter trainings. This is a very emotional, very traumatizing moment in your community and for the whole country to be watching and reliving, given the fact that this is sadly not new.

SMILEY: Yeah. It is as I mentioned, I mean, there's a -- you know, I'm very active in the U.S. conference of mayors. I've heard presentations from other mayors who have experienced mass shootings in their community. We've trained for this. We did an active shooting drill of full-scale drill very recently here in providence.

And so, it is a commentary on the times that we need to do that, but it is still a very different thing when it actually happens. This has not happened in Providence before. And so, while intellectually maybe we knew that it could happen, you still never think that it will.

And the first priorities were and remain both bringing the individual responsible to justice. And we feel like we're making good progress on that, but we've yet to actually charge someone. And so were very focused on that. As we were discussing, there's still eight people in the hospital, and their recovery is a priority.

But as the -- as the initial shock and, moment has passed and it sort of started to settle in for all of us, the emotions are really taking over. This is a beautiful, safe, mid-sized city that were all so proud to be in. I mentioned, you know, Brown University campus is very open. It's a college town.

And so, it is -- it is shocking and, and so terribly sad. I know the students here, many of whom were sheltering for many, many hours last night. They're all incredibly shaken up. So are my neighbors as is the entire city.

And so, they're in the days and weeks and months to come. There will be time to discuss what policies need to change, what we need to do differently. But the, the fact of the matter is, is this -- this should not be normal. This should not be the case that every community needs to prepare for something like this to happen. And I certainly never thought that it would actually happen in providence, although we were well prepared for it.

BASH: This should not be normal. You can say that again and again and again. Sadly, it has become so.

Mayor Smiley, thank you so much for joining me. And again, we are thinking about you and your entire community.

SMILEY: Thank you very much.

BASH: Up next, another community that is reeling from horror, a terror attack in Australia on a Jewish community celebrating the first night of Hanukkah.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:23:05]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. We're learning more about the horrific terror attack in Australia, targeting the Jewish community there. At least 11 people are dead, 29 more wounded.

I'm going to go live now to Sydney, Australia. Angus Watson is there for us.

Angus, explain exactly what happened with this attack on the beach there.

ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: Well, Dana, right behind me is a bridge that leads to a park and then the beach, famous Bondi beach here in Sydney, Australia. Now in that park was a festival gathering for Hanukkah. "Hanukkah by the sea" it was called. Families, their children, the elderly, too, celebrating that Jewish festival.

Two gunmen got on top of that bridge and fired into the crowd, killing at least 11 people, 29 people taken by ambulance to hospitals all around this city. We know from the Jewish community here that a rabbi presiding over this event was killed, as was a 12-year-old girl.

The Australian government has labeled this now a terrorist incident. A terrorist incident attacking the Jewish community here in Bondi in Sydney, Australia, antisemitic terror here tonight, shocking the entire community.

Now behind me, you can see the police line. Police were also able to identify a car belonging to one of the suspects, who is now dead. That car contained explosive devices, IEDs, which have now been removed by the police. So behind me, police took hours to declare this scene safe, for want of a better word, it's now a crime scene.

Well, as police will comb through trying to find out more about the alleged perpetrators, one of these gunmen dead, the other one serious injury -- seriously injured in police custody.

[08:25:03]

Now, I want to point out some video to you. A bystander here doing an extraordinary deed, tackling one of the gunmen, prizing his weapon away from him, and then using that weapon to defend the community. Authorities here say that man, that bystander surely saved people's lives down here at Bondi Beach on Sunday afternoon, when the Jewish community here came under a disgraceful, disgusting terrorist attack.

BASH: I mean, wow, what a hero that video is just absolutely extraordinary, Angus.

Gun violence. sadly, here in the U.S. is, has become the new normal, as we've been talking about this morning. In Australia, it is not, but in Australia, antisemitism has really spiked since October 7th, 2023 -- Angus.

WATSON: Jewish groups here have identified thousands of antisemitic attacks, instances of antisemitism ramping up since October 2023. Now, the Australian authorities here have responded to countless attacks of violence against the Jewish community, including the burning of synagogues and the burning of a Jewish business right up the street from where we are now, the burning of cars and Islamic slogans painted in graffiti on cars, on buildings, childcare centers attacked as well. The rate of antisemitism attacks has spiked horrifically.

But I don't think that many in the Australian public now could have imagined the horror that has happened here at Bondi beach, where 11 members of that Jewish community have been killed by a gunman, 29 people now injured in hospital -- Dana.

BASH: Angus, thank you so much for your terrific reporting. We really appreciate you being there.

I want to go back to our law enforcement experts now, former FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Washington, D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey, former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow.

Andrew McCabe, I'm going to start with you and pick up where Angus left off on what we have seen in Australia.

MCCABE: Yeah. Dana, I think it's -- quite frankly, it's consistent with what we are seeing in other parts of the world, consistent with what we're seeing here in America.

The fact is that the Jewish community remains under increasing threat from targeted violence, antisemitism isn't just something that's sprung up here and in other places in the aftermath of the attack on Israel on October 7th. But it's certainly gotten much worse.

And I think that the numbers bear it out. It's here in the United States. We're seeing it now in Australia and other places. So, it's a -- it's a real thing. This is not some sort of phantom.

BASH: And Chief Ramsey, the fact that the Australian officials are saying that the they found IEDs, explosives ready to go off in these individuals cars, it just gives you a sense of how calculated this attack was.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. No question about it. And the fact that heroic action on the part of that citizen taking away that assault weapon no doubt saved lives. So, these individuals had intent to harm and kill a lot of people. And thank God they weren't able to detonate any of those IEDs. But the fact that they had them shows their intent was to cause major, major damage.

BASH: Yeah. Let's pull up that video again. Jonathan Wackrow, I'm going to come to you on this because it's just extraordinary. It's the kind of thing that you think if you're in a situation like this, that you would want to be the person to do this. And this guy -- this guy did it and certainly risked his life. And clearly, the Australian authorities are saying, rightly, that he saved countless lives by that act of bravery.

[08:29:34]

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. It's amazing, you know, how these acts of bravery manifest themselves out of necessity in these times of, you know, critical incidents.

But this individual knew that if he did not act, the consequences and the order of consequences would be significant.

You know, this incident broadly just, you know, continues to, you know, focus on how targeted violence towards the Jewish community continues to gain traction around the world. And a lot of this, Dana, is manifested online.

And what I look at, what will be interesting in the aftermath of this attack is really looking at the conversations online, because what we've seen in the past and which is really worrisome to me, is that there's this digital dehumanization of individuals online and these specific targeted acts of violence that we're witnessing are being normalized.

And that has to stop. We have to get to the root of that hate online and stop it immediately. But in this instance, this this individual absolutely was a hero and, you know, saved lives.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes. It's such a good point. Interesting also that this is a country that became the first in the world to ban social media for teens 16 and under just last week. You know, now we see this.

Thank you all.

Please don't go anywhere. There is a lot going on.

Coming up, we're going to go back to the shooting at Brown University. How the community there is reacting. I'm going to ask the lawmaker representing Providence, next.

[08:31:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Welcome back to "STATE OF THE UNION".

We're continuing to monitor the situation in Providence, Rhode Island after a shooter opened fire in a classroom during finals week, killing two students and injuring nine others. I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Gabe Amo, who represents

Providence and has since 2023. Thank you so much for being here. I know that you're currently not even a mile away from where this incident took place.

I'm so sorry for what happened in your community.

What are you hearing from your constituents and what do you want people to know about how they're doing?

REP. GABE AMO (D-RI): Well, first off, I want to extend my deepest condolences to the families of the two students who were killed in this terrible incident and extend my prayers and any support that we can offer to those students who are still in the hospital as they recover.

And, you know, this is a tragic incident, in large part because Brown University is so connected to the broader Providence community.

And so because we are such a small, tight knit community, we saw a dramatic, and -- and appropriate response from law enforcement here in the city of Providence and the state police, as well as departments across this state.

And so I'm heartened that there's a lift to the shelter-in-place order, and that there is, hopefully some modicum of, of normalcy for people in our community.

But this is a sad day. And I'm grateful for the leadership that has stepped up.

BASH: Yes. Sad indeed. I know you're in touch with law enforcement there. A person of interest, is now in custody. We know he is male, estimated to be in his 30s. Have you learned anything else that you can share?

AMO: No. You know. Right -- right now I'm going to follow the lead of the mayor of the city of Providence, Brett Smiley. Who has urged us to be patient and to let the investigation take its course.

It's essential right now that we continue to have people send in any information, through the official channels, whether it's the tip line that has been set up, or uploading images or any sort of content through the FBI's portal. But we need to make sure that this investigation is done thoroughly and then get to the work of healing the community.

And I think our leaders locally who are stepping up to the plate from President Paxson to Mayor Smiley, our governor, and so many others.

BASH: Do you know how the victims are doing? The -- those who are still in the hospital, how -- what their condition is. Have you spoken to the families?

AMO: I haven't spoken to the families yet, but I've received reports that there has been some progress. Nobody has gone backwards and experienced any, regression in their -- in their health.

I certainly give a lot of thanks to the medical professionals who many of whom have been there working through the night to ensure that folks are on the road to recovery.

But I know there's been progress in several of the folks who were wounded. But we still are looking to hear more. And I will be doing whatever I can to complement the support that the university and the city of Providence are providing right now at this difficult time.

BASH: Congressman, you have called for new legislation to prevent tragedies like this from happening. But just in case our viewers aren't aware, the state of Rhode Island has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Universal background checks, red flag laws, waiting periods to purchase a gun. And yet we still saw a shooting take place.

AMO: Well, no one ever thinks these shootings are going to happen in their community. When I worked at the White House for President Biden I was a liaison to governors and mayors across the country and was often the first person to call a community after one of these incidents.

And so there's no, you know, magic formula to stop this this scourge of violence that we've seen around the country. But that does not mean, we shouldn't try.

[08:39:50]

AMO: We have two young lives that are lost. We have others on a potentially long road to recovery, and we have a shock to a community. That means we have to use every single tool available to us, to ensure that this pain and suffering isn't something that anybody is feeling.

So, I know that we have, gun laws on the books, but we also need to make sure that we are doing everything we can to reduce the number of guns, reduce the ability to access them.

And yes, we won't control for everything, but I'm going to try at every effort to make sure that people don't feel pain and suffer.

BASH: Congressman, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

AMO: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: And we're continuing to follow the devastating terror attack in Australia.

Up next, I'm going to speak to a rabbi on how the shooting hits close to home.

[08:40:48]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: More now on the terror attack in Australia targeting the Jewish community on the first day of Hanukkah. At least 11 people are dead and 29 more are wounded.

Joining me now to talk about the attack -- excuse me -- and the impact on the Jewish community is Rabbi Levi Shemtov. He's the executive vice president of American Friends of Lubavitch, and somebody I've known for a long time.

You live here in Washington. Your wife Nechama is Australian, and I know that you lived there for a while.

I think we just lost the rabbi.

Forgive me. You know what? We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, well try to get the rabbi's shot back.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: And we are back now with Rabbi Levi Shemtov of American Friends of Lubavitch-Chabad. Thank you so much for being here. Sorry about the technical difficulties.

Can you tell us about your nephew who was there at the scene?

RABBI LEVI SHEMTOV, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FRIENDS OF LUBAVITCH: Well, I just spoke with him about an hour ago. I actually wanted to get him on the show for you. But he was -- told me he's not in a state to speak to the press right now.

But he described to me how he was literally hiding as the shooting was going on. He says he was holding his daughter, praying, and the bullets were whizzing right by him.

He said it was a horrific experience.

BASH: I mean, you said that he was traumatized. I can't even imagine the trauma there. He was with his daughter.

SHEMTOV: He's a first responder, and he's actually busy tending to some of the wounded and the families of those who didn't make it. But he said it was just absolutely terrible.

I mean, Sydney was always the type of place which was a haven for all people. It always prided itself on multiculturalism. But lately, things have taken a turn for the worse in a very major way.

[08:49:44]

SHEMTOV: People saw this coming. They said it would come. They begged the prime minister to do something about it, and he just was casual or went the other way too many times.

BASH: Well, let me get back to that in one second, because I do want to ask you about that.

But as I mentioned before, your wife, Nechama, is Australian. You spent time in Australia. I know that you know that area in addition to having family there.

Can you talk about the community as a whole? The Jewish community in Bondi Beach?

SHEMTOV: Bondi Beach is part of the larger Sydney Jewish community, which is part of the larger Australian Jewish community, numbering about 100,000. But they're the largest community of Holocaust survivors outside of Israel.

Many people wanted to get as far away from the horrors of the Holocaust after it ended and went to Australia and rebuilt their lives very successfully, very peacefully. And were very productive in the -- in the development of Australia as a nation, economically, educationally.

There was a Jewish governor general, members of the court system. There's a Chabad rabbi who's a supreme court justice in western Australia today. So the contributions to society are undeniable. But in recent times, that has been a problem.

Now, Bondi Beach is a place of peace and relaxation. I must have gone by the place where this event happened hundreds of times, if not more.

And I -- when I heard where it happened, I shuddered. I was watching the footage, and I know the place. When I began my rabbinic service, it was part of a -- of a study of community program, and someone walked into the study hall and said he had just met the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, of blessed memory, who had said, you know, you're going to Australia. It's the 200th anniversary there. Make sure you do something good about it.

And we established then, I was very young, I was barely 20 years old. I helped establish the Australian Bicentenary Hanukkah Celebrations Committee. It was the first major project of my life.

And I remember being so pleasantly surprised that because it was the summer, we'd get thousands of people coming to these outdoor events with senior officials. We had a celebration with the prime minister, Bob Hawke, and with the premiers of the states.

And the people were just uplifted that something like this would happen in society.

BASH: Yes.

SHEMTOV: And we had the greatest cooperation from all across the sectors of the community.

(CROSSTALKING)

BASH: And connect that, if you will, from the experience that you had back then to what you mentioned, with regard to the spike in anti- Semitism that the Australian Jewish community has seen, particularly in the last two years.

SHEMTOV: Well, when I was there it was a very open and loving society. It's a very brotherly place, Australia, from the forms of speech to just the generally laid-back environment compared to like an East Coast, New York or Philadelphia and Washingtonian experience. Everybody felt like by everyone contributing, society was stronger. It was better.

And in recent times that has taken a turn for the worse. Any anti- Semitic declaration 20, 30 years ago would be condemned. And today that almost doesn't make the news.

Violent acts were happening without enough action following condemnation. Somebody burned down one of the biggest synagogues in Melbourne, and the prime minister, who had just brushed off entreaties to him from the community to take action, came and apologized, said some nice words, but then sort of moved on.

And it's a very -- it's a very diverse community, but with a very large Arab population who lived in peace for many, many years.

And then when the whole Palestinian issue came to the fore, he basically didn't do what a responsible leader should do, which is make sure not to incite people with what he does. And he failed that test big time.

I remember having a consultation just a few weeks ago because I advised many groups in places with the head of the rabbinical organization of all Australia. It was a group of all the rabbis from across the country have a central organization.

And they were talking about specifically this problem that he wasn't addressing this issue enough. And he was actually by not doing that sort of -- I'm not saying he encouraged the violence, but he definitely did not discourage it to the point where people who were prone to do that, would act. And now we see the results, which are horrific.

BASH: Rabbi Levi Shemtov, thank you so much for jumping on. I'm glad that your nephew is safe and your niece is safe. And thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

[08:54:50]

SHEMTOV: Yes. Dana before -- Dana, before you go, I just want to say something to our community.

The thing that we have been mandated to do by God more than anything else, is not to fear from Abraham, who was told (INAUDIBLE), don't be afraid even until today.

Our message cannot be one of retreat or fear. We must proceed. We must continue. We must endure. We must show strength. Nobody will erase us.

They've tried through history for thousands of years, and with our strength of spirit, we will celebrate Hanukkah not only on the ellipse in front of the White House to kick it off --

BASH: Yes. SHEMTOV: -- but also we will show that light is stronger than darkness. Right is stronger than might. Justice is stronger than tyranny.

And we will come out of this somehow stronger and able to show the world the message of the Jewish people, which is we wish peace with everyone. We want to live in peace with everyone, and with God's help, we will somehow reach that day soon, when that will be the reality for all of the world.

BASH: Ok.

SHEMTOV: We don't give up. We are not despondent even though were shattered. Thank you very much for having me.

BASH: Rabbi, thank you. And we'll see you at that Hanukkah lighting on the ellipse here in Washington later today. Thank you.

SHEMTOV: Thank you.

BASH: And I want to end this hour turning back to the devastating shooting at Brown University. Emily Feil, a student reporter with "The Brown Daily Herald", spent the last night covering the shooting on her campus.

You're a student. You are a journalist. Can you just talk about what you have been hearing, as you have been doing your reporting and also experiencing this as a member of the community?

EMILY FEIL, REPORTER, "THE BROWN DAILY HERALD": I think it's incredibly difficult, sort of having to reach out to people during such a sensitive time, having to understand the situation.

Yesterday I was sort of in flux as to where I was going to be in terms of finding a safe place.

Right now, there is a person of interest in custody, a 30-year-old man. There haven't been any more updates on that. So I think everyone is just hoping for the best, and we're hoping to get out information as quickly and as effectively as possible.

Bash: And the fact that you are able to move about, that the shelter- in-place has been lifted, That obviously brings a big sigh of relief.

But can you just talk about the feeling as a student in the community at Brown, since this happened yesterday? I mean, it's been a very long night there.

FEIL: I heard about it when I was studying with a friend. I was very nervous about the paper I had submitted the night before. All of a sudden that felt very inconsequential.

I'm a part of the breaking news team at "The Herald", and when I heard about the issue, everyone sort of jumped in head first, trying to understand the situation and address it as quickly as possible. But me personally, I was moving around downtown trying to find trying

to find a safe place to be. I made it back to my dorm this morning after staying with a friend because the hold-in-place has been lifted.

BASH: Emily, you are a terrific reporter, obviously. Thank you so much for just staying on it in unbelievably hard circumstances, dramatic circumstances.

And we really are thinking about you and the whole community there. Thank you so much for your work.

FEIL: Thank you.

BASH: And ahead, more on our coverage of the devastating shootings, both in Rhode Island and Australia, including an interview with Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, who knows all too well about mass shootings.

Stay with us.

[08:58:33]

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