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Brown University Shooting Survivor Speaks Out; Rhode Island Officials Provide Update on Brown University Shooting Investigation. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 14, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington.
We're standing by for a news conference to begin any minute now in Providence, Rhode Island, after the tragedy at Brown University. It's beginning now. Let's listen in.
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BRETT SMILEY (D), MAYOR OF PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: ... by Senator Jack Reed and Congressman Gabe Amo. And we will hear from Senator Jack Reed in a moment on behalf of Rhode Island's federal delegation, who have been in touch with us throughout this incident over the last day.
And as both the governor and I have said on multiple occasions, the amount of federal resources and cooperation that we have received is extraordinary. And that extends to our representatives here in Rhode Island.
And then final -- finally, Colonel Oscar Perez will give an update as well.
At this time, we have no update to share on the investigation. It is ongoing. There is no reason to believe that we have hit any roadblocks, other than to say that we are doing what we know how to do in cooperation with our law enforcement partners to ensure that we adequately, thoroughly investigate the situation.
And when we are ready to make a further announcement, we will do so. We know there's some information circulating, but we will not share any information that might compromise our investigation or future charges. So at this time, we have no official updates to share with respect to the investigation.
Next, it's clear that our community is still in shock and hurting. And now that the initial phase of the investigation has made some progress, we're turning our attention to caring for our neighbors, both the Brown community, the broader Providence community, and truly all of Rhode Island.
The city of Providence has stood up a Web site, the address of which is ProvidenceRI.gov/communityresponseresources. There, you can find a long list of community resources for mental health care, what to do in the event of trauma, how to help talk about events like this with your kids, to try to help families, neighbors, community members start to understand how to process that which has been so difficult for us.
Finally, the Providence City Council, who have been excellent partners -- and, again, we're joined by leaders from the City Council, including the councilman for this area, Councilman John Goncalves, is inviting the Providence community and really anyone who would like to join us tonight at 5:00 p.m. at Lippitt Park, where there had been a previous plan to light a Christmas tree and to light a menorah for the first night of Hanukkah.
And for those who know at least a little bit of the Hanukkah story, it is quite clear that, if we can come together as a community and shine a little bit of light tonight, I think there's nothing better that we could be doing as a community. And so please know you're all invited to Lippitt Park tonight at 5:00.
Lippitt Park is at 1008 Hope Street. And all are welcome. Certainly, Providence police and other folks will be on hand to make sure that we are all -- can be in community without any concerns tonight.
I'd like to note that Family Services is here with us today, Margaret Holland McDuff. She is one of those community resources that has become available. I'd like to also acknowledge that United Way of Rhode Island and their 211 system has been helping and leaders from the Nonviolence Institute have been assisting with families in the hospitals.
Additionally, Treasurer James Diossa and his Victim Compensation Fund has already been in touch to ensure that his office is doing everything that they can.
Before I turn it over to the governor, I will just share that a couple hours ago I was at the hospital. I know President Paxson has been several times, but I had a chance to meet with a few victims and their families. And while they are receiving excellent medical care, and I want to thank the professionals at Brown Health and Rhode Island Hospital.
The professionalism of these folks -- just like our law enforcement professionals, have been up all night working, but the level of care and professionalism that they are exhibiting is extraordinary. These survivors are receiving excellent care.
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And the resilience that these survivors showed and shared with me is, frankly, pretty overwhelming. It pales in comparison what they have gone through for the rest of us here. We're all saddened and scared and tired. But what they have been through is something entirely different. And yet they showed courage and hope and gratitude for how this
community has stood up for them and how the health care providers cared for them. A couple of the family members who I had a chance to speak with are so grateful for what they have seen and heard of the outpouring of support from this community.
And so I want to relay that to all of you that they're watching what's happening also. And their healing has improved based upon all of the positivity and love and care that they have seen from not just the Rhode Island community, but, frankly, the national community. And so thank you.
Governor McKee has been an incredible partner through all of this. And I'm grateful for his leadership and the compassion that he's shown and the relentless focus he's had on those individuals who are recovering in the hospital right now.
And I'd like to invite the governor to say a few words.
GOV. DANIEL MCKEE (D-RI): So, today, Brown students and the community is suffering and they're in pain. So, please let the president and the Brown community know that we stand with you.
So, as we start this second day of this tragedy, I do feel as though it's important to really point out Mayor Smiley and his team, first responders, State Police and our federal partners, Brown University, the staff at the hospitals, and, as the mayor said, the media, who has been able to really put out the information that I'm sure is going to help accelerate the fact that we have someone in custody.
The mental health support, the community needs our compassion and our support as the process of this horrific event unfolds. As governor and as a Rhode Islander, I get to speak on behalf of the people of the state of Rhode Island, as a dad, as a grandparent. It hits home to us, all of us, me included.
While the suspect has been detained, our work as a state is not over. As governor, I'm committing to the city and to Brown and the broader community that has been impacted by this to make sure everyone who needs assistance, mental health assistance, can access them.
Last night, we activated the state's Trauma Response Team to help coordinate mental health resources with all partners. And to everyone in the nation, because this is a national event -- I have had calls, like I said, personal calls with Hawaii, dad that has a freshman at Brown University.
To everybody out there in the country, please send your prayers here to Rhode Island. And to all Rhode Islanders, let's do what we do best. Let's stand by and support our neighbors when they most need it. And we stand ready to do exactly that.
SMILEY: Thank you, Governor.
I'd like to invite Senator Jack Reed to say a few words on behalf of the congressional delegation. SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): On behalf of Senator Whitehouse, Congresswoman
Magaziner, Congresswoman Amo, I first want to express our profound condolences to those families who've lost a loved one.
And to those families who are struggling with a seriously injured child, we offer not only our sympathies, but our (AUDIO GAP) recovery. I must commend the leadership. Mayor Smiley has done a superb job. The governor has done a superb job. The president, President Paxson and the provost, Provost Doyle, have also stepped up and done a superb job.
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We are also, I think, particularly indebted to the police officers and the firefighters from Providence, the Brown University Police Department, many departments, both police and fire from across the state of Rhode Island, our State Police.
And a special word of praise and thanks to our federal law enforcement officers, the FBI, the ATF. They have been instrumental, critical in the progress of this investigation so far. I received a call from Attorney General Pam Bondi, who and I shared my praise and thanks for the assistance of federal authorities.
This has been a horrible, terrible moment. But in moments like this, we see the best of Rhode Island, the firefighters, the policemen, the civic leaders, neighbors who come together. And let us celebrate that community. Thank you.
SMILEY: Thank you, Senator.
Finally, we will hear from Providence Police Chief Colonel Oscar Perez.
COL. OSCAR PEREZ, PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND, POLICE CHIEF: Thank you, Mayor.
So, yes, the message is the same. I will echo the message from the mayor earlier as far as where are we with the investigation. I will tell you that, right now, the investigation continues to progress extremely fast. We're in the process of collecting evidence and seizing items that we need to seize, search locations that we need to search.
I want to commend the response, the quick response of ATF, FBI. As the items get seized and collected, obviously, they will provide the resources and the equipment that we need to ensure that we have the right legal requirements and facts in order to be able to provide that so that we can move along.
I also want to commend the attorney general's office, who has been standing by us to ensure that our process is continuing in a proper manner. And so that's where we're at with it. We will continue. It's a complex investigation. I know there's some speculations out there about names, and I'm not here to confirm or comment. I know you're going to ask me that as far as names. I will tell you
that I'm not going to confirm or comment, because, in the years that I have in this department, in this police department, we stand on grounded facts, not on speculation. And at that point, we will be able to -- once we're ready and we have the appropriate and accurate information, we will be able to update you with that.
My goal is that we're able to have those -- that information as soon as possible. But, again, I tell you that respectfully, and I have the responsibility to respect the integrity of this investigation. I think that it's complex. Any detective that worked last night and all the agents that worked last night, I have responsibility to respect the work that they're doing.
And so when we're ready to provide you with that info and to come to give you the right info, I will make sure that you get that updated. So...
QUESTION: Have you managed to establish any connection between the suspects and the university? Why did the suspect target the university?
PEREZ: So that's all part of the investigations that we're conducting. And, again, it's complex.
And we want to make sure that once we have -- at the appropriate time to give you the accurate information, we will be able to provide that information for you in that answer. Go ahead, John.
QUESTION: Colonel, the person of interest, is that the same individual that we saw on the surveillance video you have released?
PEREZ: So, again, I'm not going to speculate. I want to be -- make sure that, if I give you an answer, it's grounded on facts. And so we're getting to that point, but it's going to take time.
Detective work is not something that you can answer or solve within a minute. You have -- it takes time. And we have to make sure that we have the right evidence in order to prosecute somebody properly.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: What led you to Coventry? What you to -- Providence police, the Coventry police, FBI?
PEREZ: So I'm not going to confirm or comment on locations, again, John.
I'm going to tell you that -- I'm going to state -- I'm going to tell you a second -- what I'm telling you is the fact that we're going to continue progressing on this complex investigation to make sure that we have all the facts together in order to be able to give you what you're asking.
QUESTION: Do you know better now than you did last night at midnight? PEREZ: Absolutely. I think the great work of the men and women of
this department, the collaboration with the different federal agencies, the fact that we are standing here all together and we're all stepped up and we're making sure that we have the right answers and that we can continue on to bring peace, as the mayor stated, and calm to this city.
It's a beautiful city and it's something that we take pride of. And so, yes, I feel much better.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pat the next -- Pat and then the guy behind you.
QUESTION: Can you talk to us about the process?
QUESTION: The most common question I have gotten in the last 24 hours, it revolves around the fact that Brown University is the most camera-ridden, most (AUDIO GAP) piece of real estate in Rhode Island.
And yet there seems to be little or no video evidence outside that clip. Respecting the investigation, is there a lot more video that we're just not able to see yet because of the ongoing investigation? Or is there simply no video?
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So what we shared with you the other day is what we have that we could share. And then we will continue to -- again, we're continuing to collect evidence. As we speak, we have detectives out there trying to continue to find.
So I don't want to tell you that there's no more video because we might find something within the next few minutes. So, yes, it's possible. But what we gave you there is what we have. Go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: So, Colonel, if you wouldn't mind, two questions here.
PEREZ: Yes.
QUESTION: Can you talk to us about the process of releasing this 10- second clip to now someone's in custody, how you all are working together to garner that information -- someone being detained, rather?
PEREZ: Correct.
And so, yes, someone being detained. It led us to that point as far as, like, when we started, obviously, it's a fast move. It's a quick response right from the beginning. Once we get the call, and you pull up to a scene, obviously, as chaotic as it was, and then it gets to a point that now we're asking the public for help.
Tips come in. Federal agents come in. At that point, police respond, detectives get to get -- to do their work. And so that's where we started. And then we ended up getting, obviously, to a point, when we find someone of interest, we bring them in. But we're pretty -- pretty -- I'm pretty confident in the work that the men and women have done of the department.
But I got to respect their work. They -- some of them haven't gone to sleep. And so I have to respect the fact that they're going to continue and give us what we need in order to be able to prosecute somebody properly. We are at this.
SMILEY: Telemundo in the back.
QUESTION: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PEREZ: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
QUESTION: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PEREZ: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
QUESTION: Colonel, can you confirm whether the person of interest is from Rhode Island and have you found the weapon that was used?
PEREZ: Again, I'm not going to confirm or comment, because I think there's a -- I have a responsibility to respect the integrity of this investigation.
It's a process, and it's complex. And I don't want to be the one to stain that process.
QUESTION: And no one is charged?
PEREZ: At this point, no, correct. And so that's the other thing. I'm not going to speculate on something without grounded facts.
If we're going to charge someone, then we're going to charge somebody, and I'm going to come here and tell you. You will be the first ones to know.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
PEREZ: I'm sorry?
QUESTION: How about the weapon? Have you found the weapon?
PEREZ: Again, we're in the process of collecting evidence. We're in the process of typing search warrants as needed. And we're in the process of doing what we need to do in order to be able to get those items.
(CROSSTALK)
SMILEY: Right here.
QUESTION: We heard of some people who work in the building who say they had some safety concerns, specifically with the lack of cameras in this building where the shooting took place. Do you know if there were cameras in the building? What was the security like in that building?
PEREZ: Again, I'm not going to comment as far as what was at this facility or what you're being told by or what information you're getting from somebody.
But I can comment on the fact that we are working with what we have. And, obviously, we have somebody at the police station, a person of interest, and we're going to continue to build that case in order to be able to charge that person.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: The FBI director is saying that they found this person of interest in a Coventry hotel because of a tip from the Providence (OFF-MIKE) Can you confirm that? The FBI director is saying that.
PEREZ: Because of a tip of the Providence police. Again, I'm not going to...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: The FBI director is saying that they found the person of interest in a Coventry hotel because of a tip from the Providence (OFF-MIKE)
PEREZ: So, me personally, I'm not going to comment on what was told by another agency.
What I'm telling you is the fact that we're going to continue this investigation. We're going to respect the integrity of it. And we're going to work closely with the attorney general's office in order to be able to prosecute this person in the proper manner.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: What do you say to parents around the country and around the world, there are many international students of Brown, who are sitting here today wondering how a government was able to get so close to students?
Did they have a swipe card? Were they let in somehow? What do you tell parents?
PEREZ: I tell the parents that this is a great city. Brown has been an icon in this city. I think that this is an unfortunate incident. But I'll tell you that I tell the parents that, if their kids are going to come to the city, to be sure that we're going to do what we need to make sure that they're safe.
And if horrific incidents like this happen, we're going to do what we need to do to make sure that we hold those people accountable.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... victims? Can you give us any information about the two people who died, if they were students, or we going to get their names at all?
[12:20:05]
SMILEY: As far as we understand, due to some travel, not all of the victims' families have been notified.
And so I hope everyone can respect the fact that we cannot share victim information if we have not yet first notified the families. It is around the holidays, and there are some people in transit. And so we need to complete -- we need to allow for contact to be made before additional information is shared.
I'm sorry that we're not able to share more. And I will just say, I know -- and I said this at the outset. I know it is frustrating that we cannot share additional information on the investigation to date. However, as has been said now for almost 24 hours, bringing the individual responsible for this horrific act in our city to justice remains our top priority, along with the healing of their survivors.
(AUDIO GAP) justice means having a thorough, complete, and tight investigation which then can be prosecuted successfully. That's how we bring justice to the individuals involved here. And so, while it may be frustrating for certain members of our community to feel like we're not being fully forthcoming with some of the details, the reason that we are not sharing details that are unconfirmed is that it could compromise our prosecution.
And, hopefully, everyone can appreciate that the top priority is, in fact, bringing an a semblance of justice and closure. And the way in which we do that is with the strongest case possible that we can present, that the attorney general will prosecute.
And so we will not share any details that we feel could compromise that future prosecution for the sake of justice for the families.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: We know we have spoken to students who have been the victims of shootings in high school and now they're attending Brown, describing this as a uniquely American experience to go through not one, but two school shootings.
What do you feel needs to be done to keep this from happening, to stop that cycle of violence? And, President Paxson, if you want to weigh in as well, ma'am.
SMILEY: There's going to be many days, months, or I'm not sure how long, of both healing, but of also moments to advocate for what might need to change.
Speaking for myself, at least, that's not today. We still have an active investigation under way. We still have students in the hospital. I won't be shy about sharing what I think needs to be done to make my community safer, but I'm not doing that today.
What I will say is, when I was at the hospital today, one of the students that showed tremendous courage literally said to me, "You know, that active shooter drill they made me do in high school actually helped me in the moment," which at the same time provided me hope and was so sad.
We shouldn't have to do active shooter drills. But it helped. And the reason it helped and the reason we do these drills is because it's so damn frequent. And so there will be plenty of time, at least from my office -- and I don't speak for any of the other public officials there. They're welcome to share if they so choose.
There will be plenty of time to talk about what advocacy and policy changes should be made, but we're still very much hard at work at the task at hand, and that is to be able to bring charges forward on the person responsible.
Sir.
QUESTION: And then can you just through the nature of the conditions again? I know you did that this morning, but is everybody out of the woods?
SMILEY: The conditions have not changed as far as I understand, and so, as was said earlier this morning, one individual has been discharged, one individual remains in critical but stable condition, and the other seven are in stable condition.
I will say I had conversations with four of the students, and they were talking to their health care providers. And so if there are status changes, we will be sure to share them.
QUESTION: Mayor, I have a question for you.
SMILEY: Yes.
QUESTION: People are asking, are you expecting to do continuous status updates throughout the day, such as this, or can they expect at a future press conference that there will be additional information?
SMILEY: Yes.
QUESTION: What is your plan for keeping the public informed throughout this afternoon?
SMILEY: Yes, thank you.
Our expectation is that this is likely our last press conference here at the Brook Street fire station. We set up here last night because we were on the edge of campus. There was a lot of work happening all around us. There's still processing evidence on campus, but that crime scene is wrapping up.
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Most of the streets, other than immediately outside of the building, have been reopened. And so we do expect to provide future updates. We will likely provide those at the Providence Public Safety Complex, and we will provide them as there are meaningful updates to share.
I know that it can be frustrating for some when the update is that there's no update. But in the absence of progress -- and what's important is that the investigation take the time that it needs to be right. And so when we have no update to share, we will say there's no update to share. And when we have news to share, we will share that news.
But our expectation is that this is our last press conference here at the Brook Street fire station, as we're entering sort of a new chapter, as the immediate crime scene winds down, and we move on to what we hope will be a prosecution and to try to help our community heal, and we talk more about things like community resources, which we have announced today.
MCKEE: You mentioned Family Services. There's a crisis support line that you might be able...
(CROSSTALK)
SMILEY: Thank you, Governor.
Yes. For Rhode Islanders, Family Service of Rhode Island also has a crisis support line. The phone number is 401-854-6678. That's 854- 6678. And the folks at Family Service of Rhode Island are extraordinary professionals who unfortunately have a lot of experience in this area and are a resource available to us.
And I know Margaret Holland McDuff from Family Services here, and we're grateful for her help along the way.
QUESTION: Colonel -- one more question, Colonel. Do you need anything from the public? In other words, is there still possibly someone out there that may have information that you need? Or, I mean, the students are now being allowed to leave the campus.
Does that mean that there's no potential witness here? Where does it stand that the public could help you?
PEREZ: No, thank you, John.
I think that, yes, the call-out to the public is to evidence that they think might be worth it for us to look at, anything that they suspect would be important for the police department to look at. We're definitely -- we welcome that.
And so the message is, please reach out. I think that that's one of the strongest things the Providence Police Department has is the partnership that we have with our different community members, as well as different colleges throughout the city.
BASH: We're going to continue to monitor the press conference going on there in Providence.
But, in the meantime, I want to bring in our own John Berman and Brian Todd on the ground in Providence. John, I know you just arrived on campus. Can you talk about what
you're seeing and just what you have learned from people you have talked to about the person of interest on that surveillance video?
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: There is remarkably little new information that came out in that news conference about the person of interest on that video, that video, by the way, taken right on the street behind me here.
This is Hope, Hope Street. And the suspect -- the person of interest, I should say, was walking in that direction on Hope Street, just past this building where the economics class was being taught that is out of frame right now from where I am. So it was right about a block-and- a-half from where I'm standing right now.
But the police, the authorities really gave very little information about that video, wouldn't say whether there's even more video from that, from the scene or from around here. You can see one police car there. It's just the streets around the building now that are blocked off. But there are cars starting to move, people starting to walk around on the streets.
We heard from the police chief and the mayor saying that, basically, the crime scene, they're done working most of the crime scene itself, but they are gathering evidence at other locations around the city.
I will tell you, we arrived by train to the Providence train station, which is just about five minutes away. And when we arrived there, I did see students leaving. All classes have been canceled. Finals have been canceled. School, for all intents and purposes, is closed now through the holidays, and students are getting out.
And the ones we talked to were shaken. I talked to one freshman who told me he was contacting all his friends that he knew who may have been in that class. And what scared him the most is when he didn't hear back from some of those students. And I think that's what they're all going through now, Dana.
BASH: Yes, no question about it. I'm sorry that you're there, but, if it's happened, I'm glad that you're there to report on it.
And that goes for you as well, Brian Todd. You have been there all night. And I understand that you have some -- a little bit more information, despite the fact that the authorities weren't giving a lot of new leads, but a little bit more information on the person of interest.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Dana.
A member of our team is monitoring the news conference, and just told me that the police chief, Oscar Perez, said that the person of interest in custody is in his 20s. There were some back-and-forth on the approximate age of that person. The police chief, Oscar Perez, just said that person is in his 20s.
[12:30:05] That was in the news conference a short time ago. We were told a short time ago that a warrant was going to be executed here at the hotel. And we believe that it either has been executed or it's being executed right now.
I will step out of the frame. And our photojournalist Effie Nidam will go into this door where we have seen law enforcement personnel coming in and out and in and out for at least a couple of hours now.
One law enforcement person was seen carrying what appeared to be either a TV or a computer monitor to an adjacent building here. And we were able to confirm from a law enforcement official here in Rhode Island that the person detained at this hotel in Coventry, Rhode Island, is the same person who is the person of interest in custody.
In addition, a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation told CNN a short time ago that the person of interest in custody had two weapons, two firearms with them when they were detained. Now, the type of firearms is not clear.
I have been asking officials here on the ground for hours now, have you recovered any weapons from this hotel room? They're not answering that question, Dana, but we have heard from a source that the person did have two firearms in their possession when they were detained.
BASH: Brian, thank you, and also to Effie, who got that footage at that hotel when the person of interest was detained. Really remarkable reporting there. Appreciate it.
Now, Brown University students were studying for an exam Saturday afternoon when the shots started ringing out.
And I want to bring in Joseph Oduro, who is a teaching assistant at Brown University, was in the classroom leading a study session when the gunman opened fire.
Thank you so much for being here. I am so sorry for what you had to witness. I'm glad that you are OK.
Can you explain what went down?
JOSEPH ODURO, TEACHING ASSISTANT, BROWN UNIVERSITY: It's hard to really put to words. It all really happened so fast.
I think the number one thing for me is just making sure everybody's OK and the community is safe and everybody feels like there's some type of -- there's some type of peace on campus.
BASH: Yes, understandable.
Can you just describe what was happening in the classroom when the gunman came in?
ODURO: Yes.
We had just finished up our last review session of the year. And then we ended a little bit late. It ended around like 4:03. And I was giving my closing remarks. And then, as soon as everybody stood up and started exiting the room, we heard what sounded like gunshots outside the door.
And we heard screaming from various students. And then about five seconds later, you see a gunman enter the room. And then he just screamed something and just started shooting.
BASH: So you saw the gunman enter the room where you were?
ODURO: Yes.
I was standing in the front of the auditorium. And he came through the back. So we pretty much directly made eye contact. And then, as soon as that happened, I looked at my students and signaled them to come to the front. And then I just ducked.
BASH: And was the gunman shooting when he entered the room?
ODURO: No. He came in, pointed the gun, and then he screamed something. We don't -- I don't know what he said. And a lot of -- none of the other students know what he said.
But, yes, then he just started shooting right after that. So, from that moment to the first gunshot, it was probably around five to seven seconds.
BASH: So what I'm hearing you saying is that you already had heard the gunshot outside the classroom, and then all of a sudden he appeared in your classroom, screamed something, and then...
ODURO: We heard what sounded like gunshots outside, yes, but my mind didn't necessarily go to gunshots right away, just because we're at Brown University. It's an Ivy League institution. You don't really assume the first loud sound you hear is gunshots, until you see the gun right in front of you, and you can see it going (INAUDIBLE)
BASH: I can't even imagine how terrifying that was. You're the person in charge. You're the T.A. in the classroom helping these students study, and you look up and there is a man with a gun, and he started to shoot in the auditorium where you were leading the study session.
[12:35:00]
Can you -- I know it's probably a blur, but what unfolded from there?
ODURO: As soon as he started shooting, I just wanted to make sure that the rest of the students and I were safe. And then from the time that inspired, I made sure to call 911 and DPS. And I tried to let them know the situation.
But with it still being extremely fresh and it, honestly, feeling, like, super unreal, I couldn't really explain any real details, other than that we we're in the room on Barus and Holley 166, and I was with around 20 students hiding behind that desk.
So it was mostly just mumbling, trying to get as much help as I could get.
BASH: Around 20 students behind one desk? Can you describe the sort of physical layout of where you were a little bit more?
ODURO: Yes, so the desk is probably a length of around 10 feet or so, and we all just hid behind it as best as we could.
There wasn't too much space, but we made do because, at the end of the day, we just all wanted to survive.
BASH: And was he shooting towards you?
ODURO: He was shooting -- the first couple gunshots when straight to the chalkboard exactly where I was standing. So, who knows. If I didn't duck, maybe I'm not here today. That's something that's -- we don't know.
BASH: Was there -- did it appear indiscriminate or did it appear that he was looking for somebody?
ODURO: That part, I'm not too sure. As soon as I locked eyes with him and his gun, I immediately looked at my residents and dropped down, and I didn't look up until DPS was here telling us that everything was going to be OK.
BASH: Do you have any sense of how long he was in the classroom shooting before he left?
ODURO: It honestly felt like an eternity. So, I don't know how long. Time just (AUDIO GAP)
BASH: Were any of the students who you were trying to protect injured?
ODURO: There was actually a girl who was sitting right next to me. She had two bullets in the -- in her legs, and she's currently at the hospital right now.
BASH: How -- what's her status? How is she doing? Do you know?
ODURO: I left the hospital yesterday, so I don't know her exact status. But I gave her a call yesterday. And she was in good spirits. And I know her surgery is taking place this morning. So I'm just praying that her surgery goes well.
BASH: Did you have training for this?
ODURO: As much training as you could possibly get when there's an active shooter. You're never going to be prepared when it actually takes place.
So I just wanted to make sure that I was OK and everybody else was OK. And I did that the best way I felt like I could.
BASH: I mean, you're 21 years old. Is that correct?
ODURO: Yes, I'm 21.
BASH: So you are a teaching student -- a teaching assistant, rather, a T.A., at an Ivy League institution, as you said. You didn't expect this. Sadly, though, you are part of a generation that is all too familiar with mass shootings.
ODURO: Unfortunately, yes. That's just the society we live in today.
BASH: Yes.
How are you doing?
ODURO: Honestly, my heart just goes to the students that didn't make it out of that room and the students that are in the hospital right now.
I haven't really had the chance to process things myself. But I just want to make sure everybody else is OK,and then I can worry about my wounds, because my wounds aren't (AUDIO GAP)
BASH: Because your wounds are?
ODURO: They're not fatal, like the others.
BASH: Yes, but it's trauma, which is a wound. There's no question about that.
And there's also no question that you acted heroically and protected not only yourself, but the 20 or so students who you were just helping to get through an exam. I'm sure that was the part of the day that you all thought was going to be -- or certainly the students thought was going to be the toughest part of their day, studying for an exam.
What was the topic?
ODURO: It's principles of economics. So it's everything we learned throughout the other semester, so some international trade, to supply and demand, to microeconomics to macroeconomics, everything basic when it comes to econ.
[12:40:08]
BASH: Yes. Well, that was obviously not the hardest part of the day. And it sounds like it was just absolutely horrifying.
But I just want to reiterate that it's very clear that you really helped your students as much as you could and in a remarkable way. And I just hope that you continue to take care of yourself.
ODURO: I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
BASH: Before I let you go, I know it was a blur, but I do want to ask you, do you have any memory of what the shooter looked like?
ODURO: I do not. I just remember the fact that I told the detectives. But I just want
to make sure they (INAUDIBLE) confidentially when it comes to identifying the shooter. So, I have no information to that status at this point.
BASH: And did you actually see the gun? Do you any idea what kind it was?
ODURO: When he came in the room, we made direct eye contact.
BASH: Right.
ODURO: So. Yes, I had -- I happened to see some things that I wish I didn't. But I just hope that it was for a reason and I'm able to help the detectives.
BASH: Yes. Well, we do too.
Thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Take care of yourself.
ODURO: Absolutely, anything that can help.
BASH: And we're going to have much more on the Brown University shooting after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:46:06]
BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.
As Americans grapple with another mass shooting, for some young adults, this is not the first time they have lived through this.
With me now is Zoe Weissman. She witnessed the Parkland shooting in Florida in 2018 and is now a student at Brown University.
Thank you so much for being here. I am so sorry that you have to grow up like this. I don't even have words to express.
Can you try to put into words for me what it feels like to have been in lockdown last night after having heard the shots in Parkland when you were 12 years old?
ZOE WEISSMAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Yes, I think I was surprised at how well I was doing. And, unfortunately, I think that's because I have already been through this.
I have kind of spent the past seven years of my life having to mentally think about this every single day. And so, unfortunately, that means that I have the skills to cope with this, but that shouldn't be possible.
BASH: Yes. No, it shouldn't. But here you are. There are probably lots of phases of this, but I did hear you talking
earlier about the fact that you had friends at Brown reach out to you for some guidance because of your experience.
WEISSMAN: Yes, I think, initially, a lot of people were really concerned about me because of my experiences, but now I've kind of noticed (AUDIO GAP) that a lot of them don't really know how to (AUDIO GAP) everything, and they know that I have that experience.
So, that's something that I'm able to kind of (AUDIO GAP) definitely.
BASH: So what do you say when people reach out to you?
WEISSMAN: You know, I've been emphasizing the importance of getting professional support.
I think the reason that I've been able to function so well after everything I went through is because I had those resources immediately after Parkland. And so I've just been encouraging my friends to make use of that and be able to (AUDIO GAP) recognize that they just (AUDIO GAP) that (AUDIO GAP).
BASH: Zoe Weissman, you are a strong, strong woman. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
WEISSMAN: Thank you.
BASH: And we're going to sneak in a quick break.
When we come back, we're going to talk to our legal experts about what we have learned so far about the shooting at Brown University.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:53:06]
BASH: Welcome back. We are following developments out of Rhode Island.
I want to bring in a panel of experts.
I want to start with our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller.
Thank you so much, all of you, for being here.
John, I do want to ask you about new information that you're hearing about the gun.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So I'm told by law enforcement sources that, when they targeted this individual staying at the hotel, when they entered the room, they were able to recover two firearms.
One thing of significance is, I'm told by sources that one of those firearms was equipped by a laser sighter, a laser sight device. That is one of those laser pointers that's aligned with the sighting of the weapon, so that, basically, where you point and put that red dot is where the bullet will go.
It's something that is used by soldiers, law enforcement, SWAT teams. It gives this a level of sophistication in terms of the weapon reused here, but it also, according to witnesses who describe this unusual device on the gun, is one more indicator to investigators, when they were able to search that room and recover that weapon, that it was another indicator that they were in the right place looking at the right person, who, as we know, is still in custody.
BASH: Wow. Yes.
And, Casey Jordan, as a criminologist, I'm wondering what you thought about what Joseph Toro -- Oduro, rather, the teaching assistant who was in one of the rooms where the gunman came in, what he described, that scene. What was your takeaway?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, it was very -- Joseph was clearly still in the aftermath of shock. I mean, he didn't want to talk about it, and you had to ask him some really kind of pointed questions to get him to recall, even though he had already spoken to detectives.
[12:55:06]
A few noteworthy things. First of all, he acted heroically in gathering the students behind the desk. I'm sure the fatalities would have been much worse if he hadn't been so quick-thinking. He says that it felt like an eternity, even though that it was just a few seconds.
And that is very in keeping with what we hear from victims in these mass shootings. He couldn't describe the shooter very well. He said the man wore a ski mask. And one of the most interesting things that he imparted that we hadn't heard before, or at least I hadn't, was that he heard the shooting before the gunman entered that amphitheater, where he was holding that study session.
And that suggests that the targets were more random than specific. Sometimes, you see in these campus shootings -- actually, only one- third of them are actually committed by current students. We think they're all committed by current students, but it's about a third; 60 percent of campus shootings are committed by people who have no connection to the campus at all.
Sometimes, the person just picks the campus because they're walking by it. Sometimes, there's a person in the classroom, like a love interest, that they're targeting, but this sounds genuinely random, because, I mean, the shooter probably could have done a lot more mayhem if they had gone to a shopping mall, for instance.
So there are a lot of questions about who the shooter is. They're holding all of this information close to the vest. And even Joseph in that moment couldn't tell you anything more than what we know already. The man was wearing black, wearing a ski mask, and maybe in his 30s, maybe a little bit younger.
BASH: Yes.
And FBI retired supervising -- supervisory special agent Steve Moore, I wonder what your takeaway is from his description and also, kind of jumping off what Casey just said, that he didn't appear -- appear to be looking for someone in particular, that it seemed to just kind of be random.
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I agree with Casey. I think this was random.
And I don't know whether he had a grievance with school. I don't think, on my blink, that he's a student. And the fact that he was in a hotel leads me to believe he wasn't -- he possibly wasn't from the area.
And dovetailing with what John said, laser sights are generally used on very small pistols because you have other types of sights that are more effective on larger weapons. That may have been the pistol that he was carrying for self-protection. I don't know.
But there's so much left to determine on this. It's going to be an interesting ride, unfortunately.
BASH: Yes, it sure is.
And, John Miller, I'm going to bring you back in and warn that we're waiting to hear from President Trump, so I might have to interrupt you. What else are you looking for?
MILLER: I mean, I think -- between what Casey and Steve observed here is that the targeting of victims was random. I mean, if you listen to the description of your witnesses, they talked about him walking in, shooting before he walked in, possibly people in the hallway, shooting people in the classroom.
But we can't confuse that with the act being random. This individual, we believe, the suspect who is in custody, is someone who is from the Midwest who had to travel here. That meant he had to get a hotel. That meant he likely had to rent a car.
That meant he knew that the likelihood that building at that school would have students in it on a Saturday, even though it's not a residential building, per se. That means that this person, in all likelihood -- and I know Casey would agree with this -- the shooting is generated by grievance.
We have been told he's not a student at the school, but that doesn't mean he never was a student at the school or an employee or had some other connection, because he came there and targeted that place and those people for a reason. And he went to a lot of trouble to do it.
So what we don't know is what brought law enforcement to that hotel exactly, how they developed that information. But we do know that they have a man in custody who had two weapons, one of which is described by witnesses as having some unique features.
So we have a lot more to learn, but we have some strong tells there about the shooter's intent.
BASH: Casey?
JORDAN: Yes, I would agree. And there -- John is correct.
About 10 percent of your campus shootings have people who are tangentially related to the university, perhaps a former employee, perhaps a former student who hasn't been able to get a job. I mean, we -- and, sometimes, it's just something that's blown up in their minds, I mean, in terms of having a beef with the university that's not even real or legitimate.
[13:00:08]
We will find out a lot more, but there doesn't seem to be an indication -- as he points out, this person was not living in Brown housing. They were staying in a hotel. If they're from the Midwest, I mean, what is that connection?
Never forget that the Unabomber just had a problem with technology and targeted universities because he felt like they were promoting technology. So there might be something that is very unique to the psychology of this shooter, where it was Brown on purpose for him, but there is nothing very specific or direct that would link that person to the university in the past.
BASH: Casey, forgive me for interrupting.
We're going to go to the White House and listen to the president.
