Return to Transcripts main page

State of the Union

Interview With Jeffrey Epstein Survivors; Interview With White House Border Czar Tom Homan; Interview With Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY); Interview With Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-OK); Interview With Gov. Andy Beshear (D-KY). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired February 15, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:42]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Deadlock. The Department of Homeland Security shuts down, as both sides dig in.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Democrats will not support a blank check for chaos.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats have gone crazy.

TAPPER: Who will fold? And who will pay the political price? Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer and White House border czar Tom Homan join me ahead.

Plus: feeling the heat. Amid warning signs for Republicans, Democrats try to seize the momentum ahead of the midterms.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Trump's going to get shellacked in the midterms. He knows that.

TAPPER: What will it mean for November? I will ask Democratic Governor Andy Beshear and Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin.

And just for show? The survivors of Jeffrey Epstein want answers. Instead, they got theatrics.

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Dow is over 50000.

You don't tell me anything!

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Yes. Oh, I did tell you.

BONDI: You're a failed politician.

TAPPER: Three survivors join me to respond in moments.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is -- you ever have deja vu? Or did I just ask you that?

It is President's Day weekend, but, here in D.C., it might as well be Groundhog Day -- shout-out to Phil Connors of Channel 9 Action News -- as for the third time in Donald Trump's second term in office, parts of the federal government are shut down because of Senate Democratic demands. This time, it is the Department of Homeland Security, which largely ran out of funding Friday night after Democrats demanded reforms to ICE and Customs and Border Protection, demands which Republicans say are nonstarters.

This comes as the Trump administration announced an end to its sweeping immigration crackdown in Minnesota, a controversial crackdown, to say the least, which set the stage for this latest funding standoff and, of course, cost two American citizens their lives.

Joining us now to discuss, Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer.

Leader Schumer, thanks for joining us.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Good morning.

TAPPER: So let's talk about where negotiations stand right now. President Trump told reporters that he's talking with Democrats and that -- quote -- "I know what they want. I know what they can live with" -- unquote.

Are you willing to accept anything less than the White House agreeing to all 10 of your demands to rein in ICE and fire Secretary Noem, or is it all or nothing?

SCHUMER: Look, the bottom line is we have three basic objectives to rein in ICE and end the violence.

First, no more of these roving patrols. You can't just go to someone's House, bash in their door without a warrant. You can't indiscriminately grab someone off the streets and arrest them. What we're proposing is that that stop.

We're also proposing that ICE agents can't go to certain special places, churches, schools, polling places. We're saying that they should end racial discrimination and not just pick someone up on the basis of what they look like. And we are proposing that the ICE be monitored carefully as well.

The second area is accountability. They have to coordinate with local governments. They don't do that now. They just show up in an area that may be perfectly safe and fine. We need a code of use of force. Every police department across the country has one.

But you look at the videos here and you see them just beating the daylights out of people. It's just -- it's not America. And, finally, and maybe most important, no secret police. No police department in America doesn't identify themselves. But these guys wear masks. They don't have cameras. We need masks off. We need cameras on.

And we need every police -- every ICE officer to be identified. Jake, these are commonsense proposals. They're supported by the American people. Why won't Republicans go for them? They don't give any good answers.

TAPPER: Well...

SCHUMER: It's something that every police department does across the country. But ICE is rogue, out of control.

TAPPER: Republicans say that there is a standard of force when it comes to ICE and CBP. And they also say, in terms of unmasking, that that will expose the ICE agents and CBP agents and their families to doxxing and threats to their safety.

SCHUMER: Yes, look, that's -- look, just look at every police department across the country. They don't walk around in masks. They don't walk around unidentified. Every police department is identified. In New York City, you see the name right on the breastplate, and the police are fine with that.

[09:05:04]

So that makes no sense what they're saying. And all we're asking is that they follow what police departments do across the country. ICE is rogue. The American people when they have seen these videos recoil. They say, this is not America. And why -- Republicans -- why aren't Republicans agreeing with that? It makes no sense.

TAPPER: Well, what if they are going after the cartels? I understand with the roving patrols and such that you're talking about, but if in specific targeted instances, if ICE agents are going after criminals, violent criminals, members of the cartels or whatever -- and you'll acknowledge that some, maybe a minority, but some of the people being picked up are that.

There certainly is an understandable concern about an ICE agent's safety in that instance, no?

SCHUMER: Look, every other police department in America is unmasked. ICE can do the same. This is a rogue force. They're almost trained, it looks like, to be nasty and mean and cruel and go way beyond what ordinary police departments do.

So they need to be reined in. They need to stop the violence. And the question that Americans are asking is, why aren't Republicans going along with these commonsense proposals? They're not crazy. They're not way out. They're what every police department in America does.

TAPPER: So your fellow Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, who voted against shutting down the government, he pointed out that -- quote -- "This shutdown literally has zero impact on ICE functionality. Democracy demands a way forward to reform ICE without damaging our critical national security agencies" -- unquote. And it is true that CBP and ICE are fully funded this year, and you're

using the funding of other parts of DHS, such as the Coast Guard or TSA, as leverage. And in the meantime, ICE can keep doing whatever it wants to do. So the question would be, how does the shutdown do anything to accomplish the goal of reining in Trump's immigration crackdown if ICE and CBP are not necessarily directly affected?

SCHUMER: Well, two points.

First, we have proposed that the guardrails that will be applied to ICE are applied not just to the present funding, but to the previous funding that was in the big bad bill. That's very important to us. So that will rein in all of the ICE agents, no matter where they're funded.

But, second, there's a simple answer to this. Republicans, go along with this commonsense -- these commonsense proposals and we will fund the whole DHS bill, the whole Department of Homeland Security bill. Just go along.

Again, I cannot repeat enough, these are common sense. Police departments across America use them. We have a rogue agency. Why don't we rein them in? That's what the American people are asking Republicans. And that's why they're going to have to go along with us. And I believe -- I believe they'll have no choice but to go along with us because it's so commonsense and so much supported by the American people.

TAPPER: Yes.

SCHUMER: They're losing support every day by not supporting these commonsense proposals.

TAPPER: You talked about barring ICE agents from polling locations.

I want to play something that DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said this week about what she sees as DHS's role in overseeing elections in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It may be one of the most important things that we need to make sure we trust is reliable and that, when it gets to Election Day, that we've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response?

SCHUMER: That's a lot of bull.

They show no evidence of voter fraud. They show there's so little in the country. And to have ICE agents, these thugs, be by the polling places, that just flies in the face of how democracy works, of how we've had elections for hundreds of years very successfully. It makes no sense at all. And we will -- in our legislation, we say

that ICE agents should not be anywhere near polling places. But, again, I think most Americans agree. You talk to people at polling places who operate the polling places, they don't want these ICE agents near them and intimidating them.

TAPPER: About 83 percent of the American people, including a majority of Democrats, support voter I.D. laws.

SCHUMER: Well, yes, the voter I.D. laws that -- first, each state can have its own voter I.D. laws, and some do and some don't.

But, secondly, what they are proposing in this so-called SAVE Act is like Jim Crow 2.0. They make it so hard to get any kind of voter I.D. that more than 20 million legitimate people, mainly poorer people and people of color, will not be able to vote under this law. We will not let it pass in the Senate. We are fighting it tooth and nail.

It's an outrageous proposal that is -- that shows the sort of political bias of the MAGA right. They don't want poor people to vote. They don't want people of color to vote, because they often don't vote for them.

TAPPER: Earlier this week, you introduced Virginia's Law in honor of prominent Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre, who died by suicide last year. The law would eliminate the statute of limitations for survivors of sexual abuse, so they can sue their abusers.

[09:10:04]

Is there bipartisan support for this legislation? Do you have 60 votes?

SCHUMER: The survivors are working very, very hard.

And they have been so successful, as you know. Because of their good work, Congress voted virtually unanimously. There was only one dissenting vote in the House, none in the Senate, to make the Epstein files public.

Now, I have to say that Kristi Noem and all of them, Bondi, are not making them public, and they're derelict in disobeying this law. But the fact that we got Republican support to actually make the files public, and because the survivors were so instrumental in doing that, they're going to work hard to see if we can get some Republican support.

I would bet on them.

TAPPER: Leader Schumer, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Appreciate it.

SCHUMER: Jake, good to be with you, as always.

TAPPER: Is the Department of Homeland Security shutdown actually affecting Trump's immigration crackdown? White House border czar Tom Homan joins us next.

And if Epstein survivors hope to get answers from Pam Bondi, many say they were disappointed. And three of the survivors who were in the room will join us in our panel ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:21]

TAPPER: Democrats say they will not agree to reopen the Department of Homeland Security without restrictions added on immigration enforcement. The Trump administration says those demands are nonstarters.

And joining me now to discuss is White House border czar Tom Homan.

Mr. Homan, thank you so much, as always, for joining us.

So, Democrats say that this shutdown with Department of Homeland Security funds is because they need to rein in ICE and CBP. Both of these agencies were fully funded in last year's One Big Beautiful Bill Act, we should note.

So I guess the first question I have is, does this funding freeze in any way, impact or limit your ability to carry out immigration operations across the country?

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: No, it doesn't.

And ICE has continued to enforce the law across the country. They're already funded. Now, the ICE officers won't be getting paid, but they're getting used to that, it seems like. So, no, the immigration mission, the reason why President Trump was elected to be president continues.

We have the most secure border in the history of the nation. We got record numbers of arrest and deportations. That will continue.

TAPPER: Are there any of the Senate Democrats' demands that you could live with? For example, Bovino's crew, it seems, could possibly benefit from some use of force guidelines.

HOMAN: Well, look, CBP, Border Patrol, and ICE both have use of force guidelines. They both have operational instructions on use of minimum force necessary to effectuate an arrest.

And I have seen videos and there's been pieces of videos and pieces of that -- videos. In any instance where there has been allegations of misconduct or working outside the policy, it has been referred to internal affairs.

My first press conference in Minnesota, I said I was bringing in more internal affairs officers to review the allegations. And those allegations are now being investigated.

TAPPER: The shooting of Renee Good, there were prosecutors in Minnesota that were going to investigate that shooting, and then the word came down from Justice Department in Washington to stop, to stop that investigation.

HOMAN: That's a question for DOJ.

That happened before I had my feet on the ground in Minnesota. So I will leave that -- that's a question for Pam Bondi or Todd Blanche. I'm not involved in those decisions. I'm not involved with investigations.

I said from day one, from the very first shooting, that I would not comment on the shootings. We will let the investigations play out. And we will see where it follows. We will let the investigation continue and see what's decided based on the evidence.

TAPPER: DHS Secretary Noem made some comments that Democratic Leader Schumer just commented on earlier in the show. I want to play them for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOEM: It may be one of the most important things that we need to make sure we trust is reliable and that, when it gets to Election Day, that we've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, what does she mean when she says electing the right leaders? That's not really immigration enforcement or DHS responsibility.

HOMAN: I don't know. That's -- that would be a question for the secretary.

If I had to guess, probably that only those legally eligible to vote would vote. But I have not talked to the secretary about those statements. That would be something she'd have to answer.

TAPPER: This week, after 74 days, you declared the immigration enforcement operation in Minnesota officially over.

I talked to a local Minnesota official who told me the following -- quote -- "Homan has been a straight shooter with us. He's easier for us to work with because he's a career cop and he knows how to talk with our law enforcement. Noem and Bovino were actually insane and not here to do anything other than put on a show" -- unquote.

Why do you think Noem and Bovino struggled so much to work with local officials that way you have successfully and carry out the kind of targeted operations that you have always advocated for?

HOMAN: Look, when the president called me and asked me to go to Minnesota and asked me to get up there that same day, and I went up there, I just did things the way I have done for 40 years. And I know a lot of people questioned, why are you meeting with the

governor? Why are you meeting with the attorney general and Mayor Frey? I have always been, you can't fix problems talking in the echo chamber.

You got to talk to the people that you may disagree with, people who have a different opinion on how you're doing it. I want to hear. I want to see, what are -- what do you see as the issue? Why do you not agree with certain aspects of the operation?

[09:20:09]

That's how you -- in my experience, that's how you fix problems. You don't fix it in an echo chamber. So I met with them. And, look, we came out, I think, a safer Minnesota, a safer Minneapolis, because now we have coordination with the jails that we didn't have before.

And the criminal aliens that everybody agrees, I think, even most of the Democrats, that we agree too. Criminal aliens should be something ICE focuses on. You can't say that and not let us in the jails. You can't square that.

But I have gotten agreements in Minnesota I never thought we'd be able to get. So the operation ended. We arrested a lot of people there and over 4,000 arrests. I looked at the numbers just this morning, Jake. It was over 14 committed -- arrested that were charged with homicide. There's 880 -- 180 sexual offenses.

And so we took a lot of bad people off the street. So I think Minnesota, Minneapolis is safer because of it. And I got to give credit to the governor. We had a good conversation. The state prisons are helping us. And Mayor Frey, me and Mayor Frey will never agree on much. But you know what? His officers did respond to take down illegal roadblocks that made it unsafe for not only citizens of Minnesota, but our officers.

I think we're in a lot better spot than we ever have been.

TAPPER: I mean, you sound like an adult. You sound like an official who should be in charge of things because you work with local officials and seek to de-escalate and have targeted operations.

But there's this credibility issue now that DHS has had, not because of you, sir, but over and over, your colleagues who work on this issue., Noem, Bovino, DHS on social media have said things to the American people that are simply not true.

The most recent example, perhaps two immigration agents last month said that they shot a Venezuelan man in Minnesota after they were attacked with shovels and broom handles. Noem went on social media. She attacked Governor Walz and Mayor Frey over what she called an attempted murder of federal law enforcement.

But then testimony and video shown in court didn't back up the claim. And now ICE and the Justice Department are investigating whether those immigration officers lied. And we have seen countless examples. Again, this is not you, but do you agree that there are people in the Trump administration that are causing DHS to have a credibility problem?

HOMAN: Well, like I said in my first press conference in Minnesota, in those comments, the first thing I thought I was going to do and I did is bring more internal affairs officers to Minnesota to investigate the allegations.

The allegations were made. They need to be investigated. And, again, I won't discuss the investigations. We will let the internal affairs and the bureau investigate these allegations. And that's the right thing to do.

But I'm not going to let the media divide this administration. Look, it's one team, one fight. And do me and Secretary Noem agree on everything? No. We have discussions and we have difference of opinion. That's what makes it a strong team. We bring different ideas to the table, then agree on a mission, based on -- again, you can't work in an echo chamber.

You want to hear different opinions, different -- how you think this should happen or that should happen, but, in the end, we clear a mission. We have great success on it. But it's one team, one fight. I'm not going to divide this administration. And we're just going to -- I'm just going to keep doing what the president wants me to do as the border czar, and we will just keep going and doing what president promised American people.

We have got the most secure border in the history of this nation, and we're arresting record numbers of criminal aliens in this country and deporting them, and we're going to keep doing it.

TAPPER: So, I'm not talking about differences of opinion. I'm just talking about facts and things that are not facts. But I hear what you're saying. I'm not going to get you to criticize anybody.

I appreciate your time today, Mr. Homan. Thanks so much.

HOMAN: Thank you, sir.

TAPPER: President Trump says Republicans should win in a landslide in November. Is he putting his thumb on the scale to try to make sure that happens?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:15]

TAPPER: It appears, at least for now, that a bipartisan meeting of governors at the White House is back on after President Trump initially only invited Republican governors.

But he's still blocking two Democratic governors from a separate dinner and attacking the GOP chair of the National Governors Association, a very conservative Republican, in Kevin Stitt, as a RINO.

Let's bring in Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky to discuss it all.

Governor, there's a lot of confusion over whether Democratic governors are still invited to attend this bipartisan meeting and dinner at the White House. Kevin Stitt, the Oklahoma governor and the chair of the National Governors Association, seemed to say that you and your fellow Democrats are invited, but then the president went on social media and attacked him.

What's your understanding? Are you invited to these events? Are you planning on going?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): It's just a lot of drama. And it's unnecessary.

Governors wake up every day focused on getting results, on creating better jobs, creating safer communities, expanding access to health care, improving our public schools. And this meeting is an annual bipartisan tradition where we try to push our differences aside and talk about how we move forward in those areas.

Yet the president has just turned it into drama, inviting and disinviting others. It no longer looks like it's going to be productive at all. At this point, I'm not going. If you're not going to invite all the Democratic governors, this chair of the DGA isn't going to be there.

TAPPER: So, just for the record, it's Jared Polis of Colorado and Wes Moore of Maryland who are the two Democrats not invited.

Are you worried at all that you not going will ultimately hurt your constituents in any way, denying you an opportunity to bring up your concerns with the president directly?

[09:30:05]

BESHEAR: We have been able to communicate with this administration for our concerns.

But there's a time when you have to stand up against the drama of a president that's turned an annual bipartisan tradition and is treating it like he's a 12-year-old and it's his birthday party, inviting and disinviting people, lashing out at others.

The American people, admittedly, don't care about this dinner. They don't care necessarily about the meeting. They care about whether you're improving their lives, decreasing costs, trying to address their everyday challenges. So that's what I'm going to be focused on.

TAPPER: For the record, I've had two 12-year-olds, and neither of them would have ever done that.

The administration is increasingly focused on the midterms. Earlier in the show, we played some sound from DHS Secretary Kristi Noem talking about making sure the right people are voting and electing the right leaders. Between that and the DOJ demanding voter information from states and the president saying he plans to implement voter I.D. requirements, even without congressional approval, are you worried as a governor about what is going to happen at the midterms?

BESHEAR: Well, it's my job to be worried.

Kristi Noem's statements are wild and they are un-American. The president talking about not federalizing elections -- he first said Republicans should take over elections in certain states. That is anti-democracy.

But Democratic governors and A.G.s are ready to stand up and make sure we have full and fair elections. But I'll say this. If you try to intimidate the American people, especially when it comes to something so foundational as voting, I think you're underestimating them.

I think you'd see huge lines and people singing. People want to be Americans first and Democrats or Republicans second, third, or fourth. You put our democracy at jeopardy, you try to intimidate them for voting, and they will step up and protect this country.

TAPPER: But what are you specifically talking about doing if there is an issue?

BESHEAR: Well, the first thing we do is go to court. That's what the courts are for.

I've taken on this Trump administration, despite being in a Trump- plus-31 state, over and over and over, and we've been winning. When they tried to take the personal information of our citizens so that they can use it as they wish, we stood up to them. When they tried to cancel funding so that we could create a warning system in eastern Kentucky for the next time it would flood, we stood up to them.

Time and time again, they've overreached, like trying to send National Guard from Texas to Illinois. We were a part of that lawsuit, standing up and winning for the American people.

TAPPER: You talk about needing FEMA in the case of a natural disaster of any sort. Are you worried at all about Senate Democrats blocking DHS funding in this latest government shutdown standoff?

BESHEAR: Well, hopefully, it won't last too long because FEMA is incredibly important and I will admit is operating pretty well under this president, at least the people on the ground that are helping people after the natural disasters.

But ICE is out of control. They have an American body count. They have injured and wrongfully shot others. They have two agents that are being investigated for perjury. And their leadership attacks anyone involved in an altercation with ICE as domestic terrorists before they even know the information.

This is a group that thinks they can barge into an American's home with an administrative warrant. We have to stand up for them. And Democrats should be using their leverage to try to get reform and retraining.

TAPPER: So you're the new chairman of the DGA, as you alluded to. You had an op-ed in "The New York Times" talking about how the focus of the Democratic Party must return to creating better jobs, more affordable and accessible health care, safer roads and bridges, education, communities where people feel safer.

I have to ask. It's no secret you're weighing a potential presidential run in 2028. Do you think Democrats right now are conveying the message that you laid out in that "New York Times" op-ed? And how do you respond to a Democratic voter who might say, I like you, I like your track record in a red state or red Commonwealth, but you're too soft-spoken?

BESHEAR: Well, first, yes, that message is working.

Look at Abigail Spanberger and Mikie Sherrill, who ran great campaigns in races that should have been structurally difficult, and they both won by double digits. The DGA and our candidates are winning everywhere.

For me, I believe that the American people want stability, that Donald Trump is exhausting. Many Americans feel like the pendulum swung too far during the Biden administration and it swung way too far during the Trump administration. And what they want is an America where they can wake up every morning and not be worried about its future.

And I think they want leadership that's focused on them, on whether they make enough money to not only afford their groceries, but take their kids on that vacation that they went on as kids. That young couple wants to be able to afford their first home around the same age as their parents.

[09:35:06]

People want to feel safe in their communities, believe their kids are going to great public schools. Those are the types of things that I think are not only appealing to the American people, but maybe can help us heal, to recognize that most of our concerns are the same, that our neighbor is not the enemy from within. She's just our neighbor doing her best in a tough world.

TAPPER: Governor Andy Beshear, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time.

BESHEAR: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: Did the Justice Department's failed effort to charge six Democratic lawmakers cross any sort of line for Republicans?

I'll talk to a Republican senator next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:06]

TAPPER: Another week, another shattered norm after the Trump administration tried and failed to indict six Democratic lawmakers over a controversial video they made urging military service members to not obey illegal orders.

Whether or not you approve of the video, the question is, do you really think those six lawmakers should have to go to prison for what they said?

Joining us now, Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma.

Senator, always good to have you.

So, your fellow Republican senators were pretty outspoken about what the Trump administration tried to do. Murkowski called the attempted indictments chilling. Tillis called it political lawfare that needs to stop. Grassley said the Justice Department should focus on going after real law breakers. Wicker said the grand jury made the right decision.

How do you feel about the Trump administration trying to send those six members of Congress, including two of your Senate colleagues, to prison?

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Well, Jake, it's not the lane I walk in. I leave that to the DOJ. I'm not an attorney, don't pretend to be an attorney. My branch of government is a legislative branch.

What we have been focused on and what I've been focused -- laser- focused on is DHS funding, trying to get away from this Democrat shutdown with DHS that's actually political theater. So what's going on at the DOJ, if it's something that I need to get involved in because it's a legislative requirement, then I'll get involved in it. Until then, I'll let them do their job.

TAPPER: I do have a tough time imagining, let's say, if the Biden administration had tried to prosecute Rand Paul for saying things about COVID that they didn't like, I have a tough time imagining you would say the same thing.

MULLIN: Well, I would say the same thing if I'm not familiar with the case law or if there's something that I need to do.

Like I said, I'm not an attorney. I stay very focused on my lane. I tell people all the time, listen, I'm never going to ask you to do a job that I haven't done or I think I can do better. Being an attorney has never been something I want to do.

And so, Jake, I'm very serious when I say this. I'll let DOJ play out. What we don't want it to be done -- what we don't want to happen is for the DOJ to be used for political leverage, which is what happened underneath the Biden administration, which what happened when they went after Trump for year after year after year.

And we're trying to change that. I know the Republicans and I know the president is focused on the rule of law. And that's what we are. We want to restore the faith to the American people, restore the government back to the American people, allow the FBI, allow the DOJ, allow the Border Patrol, allow ICE to build a do their job and enforce the laws that Congress passed.

TAPPER: Well, you just said you didn't want to weigh in, but then you accuse the Biden DOJ of politicizing the DOJ.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I mean, this DOJ is going after Trump's political opponents, Comey, Letitia James, people on the Fed, two of your colleagues, Kelly and Slotkin.

I mean, you really don't think this DOJ is politicized?

MULLIN: I don't think there's even a question that the DOJ was weaponized against President Trump at this point. I mean, I don't even think that's a question.

But what this is, is nothing but a distraction. What you and I are talking about is nothing but a distraction about what is actually happening right now with the Democrat Party by this political theater, by shutting down DHS for something that you even admitted yourself can't be done. They're not stopping ICE from doing their job.

They're not stopping the Border Patrol from doing their job. All this is a political theater because the State of the Union is coming up a week from Tuesday, because, if this was really a serious conversation, they wouldn't be holding the TSA workers or FEMA or the Coast Guard hostage over something that cannot be done by the ridiculous shutdown of DHS.

TAPPER: Well, I don't know that I'm even admitting something. I'm just laying out facts.

But let's turn to that, because Senator Schumer earlier in the show laid out Democrats' demands to end the partial government shutdown. Are you open to any of the Democrats' proposed reforms to ICE and CBP as part of a compromise, such as requiring immigration agents to wear some form of identification and body cameras, the way other police do, to make sure that they follow use of force guidelines, et cetera?

MULLIN: Body cameras, 100 percent. There's nothing wrong with that. If we want to talk about giving ICE agents or any federal agents the top-of-the-line training, let's talk about that.

As far as having a photo I.D. exposed, absolutely not. Why? It's because the Democrats, we've seen, has been doxxing them. They went into their place of worship where they thought they might be at. They went into their hotels. They went into their restaurants.

What are you going to do, expose their faces so you can intimidate their families? What we want is ICE to be able to do their job. And we would love for local law enforcement and for states to cooperate with us.

But if we want to have a serious conversation, you bet. Let's sit down and have a conversation, figure out where we can make it where the laws that Congress passed, the ICE agents can enforce and do it in a safe manner and make sure our streets are safer.

But what has happened is, they haven't negotiated in good faith. When they wanted to do this two-week C.R., we asked for six weeks. They asked for two weeks. We said OK. It took them 10 days before they gave us a counter offer. White House returned an offer in 48 hours.

[09:45:05]

They -- it took them another two days to respond. And then when we asked, OK, listen, we're going to go into shutdown, let's have two more weeks of a clean C.R. because it took you guys 10 days to give us just a counteroffer, what they said is, no, we're not doing it.

And that's when I started saying, Jake, this isn't about actually opening DHS back. This is about waiting until the president is done giving the State of the Union, which is a week from Tuesday, which is why I said this is nothing but political theater, because what they're saying, they can't even do.

They're saying they're trying to keep ICE from doing their job. And as you admitted earlier, and because it's true, ICE and the Border Patrol is funded through the One Big Beautiful Bill up until 2028. And so the only thing that shut down is the federal agencies that I named, like FEMA and the Coast Guard and TSA.

So they're shutting down thousands of workers for nothing but a talking point.

TAPPER: Before you go, sir, the president referred to your governor, Kevin Stitt, who's the chairman of the National Governors Association, as mediocre and a RINO, Republican in name only. What are your thoughts on that?

MULLIN: Well, I figured you'd bring that up.

Governor Stitt and I get along great. There has been a definitely a rub between Governor Stitt and the president for quite some time. The president is a very good friend of mine as well. Sometimes, friends disagree. And I'll let them work that one out.

TAPPER: But I would just say as a political observer, Governor Stitt is not a Republican in name only. He's a pretty conservative guy. You would not agree?

MULLIN: Well, once again, it is -- this has to do with a personality difference between both of them and who the president -- or actually who Governor Stitt endorsed during the presidential election.

And so I'll let them work it out. I'll tell you -- I mean this sincerely. President Trump is a very, very good friend of mine and Governor Stitt is a good friend of mine too. So I never get involved between friends fighting.

TAPPER: All right. On Valentine's Day weekend, send my love to both of them, if you would.

Senator Mullin, thanks so much. Appreciate your time.

MULLIN: Thank you. TAPPER: Attorney General Pam Bondi would not even turn around to face

them, so we're going to give some Epstein survivors the last word in this week's show. And that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): It is about you taking responsibility for your Department of Justice and the harm that it has done to the survivors who are standing right behind you.

BONDI: Why didn't she ask Merrick Garland this twice?

JAYAPAL: I'm reclaiming my time. And when I reclaim my time...

(CROSSTALK)

RASKIN: ... reclaimed her time.

BONDI: I'm not going to get in the gutter for her theatrics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, not only did Attorney General Pam Bondi not apologize to Epstein survivors for the Justice Department's mishandling of documents and revealing some of their identities, while redacting the names of potential co-conspirators. At that hearing, she would not turn around and look them in the eye.

Joining us now, three of the survivors, Jess Michaels, Liz Stein, and Teresa Helm.

Jess, let me start with you. How are you doing? This has been a crazy week.

JESS MICHAELS, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Absolutely crazy to see the number of people that are complicit in this and disrespectful to survivors.

TAPPER: Liz, how are you doing?

At that meeting -- at that hearing, rather, you were looking for answers about the way the Epstein files were released, why some victims' names and identifying information were not redacted, while some potential co-conspirators' names were redacted. Are you OK? Did you get any answers?

LIZ STEIN, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: We didn't get any answers.

But I think that what we did see was Pam Bondi really showing her true colors. And it was disappointing.

TAPPER: Well, tell me what you mean by that, her true colors. STEIN: I think that, over and over and over again, this

administration has tried to discredit us. They have tried to make what should be a relatively simple process for us, seeking justice for the crimes that were committed against us, they have made it incredibly difficult.

And so for us to be in that room with Pam Bondi last week and for her to not even be able to turn around and look at us like human beings, we're just seeing this bad behavior of our administration over and over and over again in plain sight.

And I think that, instead of maybe upsetting us, it really gave us more energy to go forward. And I can tell you the amount of support that I have received in the past week or so from people on both sides of the aisle has just been amazing.

TAPPER: Teresa, in the hours after the hearing, you said that -- quote -- "There was no integrity in that room today" -- unquote.

Were you talking about anybody in specific, or do you mean all of the members of Congress and the attorney general?

TERESA HELM, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: No, I was speaking specifically about the -- I would say the performance of Pam Bondi that day.

To me, she was clearly walking on the wrong side of right and wrong. And I think that -- what one of the things that's most important that she was forgetting or not acknowledging is not only us in there and our experience. We represent survivors, millions.

[09:55:05]

You might as well have taken that photo of us standing there with our arms raised and projected millions of survivors behind us, because that's essentially what was happening in those moments of us standing up and not being acknowledged.

She was turning her back on survivors everywhere, and not just us. And that's not the message that we should be sending at all. It's not the demonstration of our country, the people living in it and creating a better world, better place, as moms, as sisters, as dads, as family members, as all the things to do with survivors, because it affects everyone.

It's -- it was almost -- it was an attack, basically, an assault on survivors everywhere.

TAPPER: And just for people at home, a member of Congress asked the survivors in the room to stand and identify themselves, and also whether they were still waiting for the Justice Department to reach out to them to allow them to meet with them, how many of them had not been able to meet with the Justice Department. And I believe every single one of you raised your hands.

Jess, what was your response when Pam Bondi was being asked about Epstein and the lack of prosecutions? And she said that everybody should have been talking about how the Dow was at 50000, and that's what Democrats should have been focused on at the hearing, instead of the victims of Epstein's child rape trafficking organization.

MICHAELS: I think it comes down to the same common denominator that has happened since 1996, when Maria put her first report in, is that this comes down to money, that people are willing to protect pedophiles if the price is right and if the power is right.

And that's -- had a lot of clarity actually when she mentioned that in defense of not prosecuting, especially when Jamie Raskin asked, we have all of this information. Why don't we put out statewide task force? And she could not say or commit to doing that.

TAPPER: And, Liz, it's not like we haven't seen any accountability since the Epstein files were released. We have seen some.

Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers has stepped back from all his public roles, including at Harvard. There's this powerful tycoon in Dubai who has been replaced because of his sexually explicit e-mails with Epstein, including a reference to a torture video.

The U.K. ambassador to the U.S. resigned. The prime minister of the U.K. is feeling the heat. But what more do you want to see in terms of accountability?

STEIN: I think we want to see all of the men who are complicit in this crime to be outed and to be exposed.

I think that we are also looking for the network, right? Epstein had to have a network. And so who are the financial enablers? I think that we -- the release -- the most recent release of files is definitely not an ending, but it's a starting point for us.

Every page that I have looked at has some kind of investigative lead. So, I think that this should be the beginning of an investigation into these crimes. And we haven't seen that yet.

Something that I like to bring the public's focus back to is that this isn't about politics. This is about a crime. We're victims of the crime of sex trafficking. And I don't think that anyone in our country, if this was happening in their community, could stand by and watch it.

And so for us to see our Department of Justice just so willingly and willfully denying citizens of this country justice, it just -- it makes my brain explode.

TAPPER: Teresa, what does accountability look like for you? What should we in the media be doing? What should the Justice Department be doing?

HELM: The Justice Department should get back to the fundamentals of what they're meant to do for the American people and pursue justice through investigation, further indictments. I would ask that they could actually -- if they could go back and basically just restart everything from the beginning so that they don't keep making mistakes and they can't rely on, well, we have done this and we can't go back now.

Well, how about you go ahead and start over and start the investigation and carry it out as if it were something very personal to them, because it should be, because we are -- we are the ones that have put them there. They are representing us.

So it should be very personal to every single person. And, again, it's hard not to connect it to the fact that it should be so personal because it affects every single person, whether it's a high-profile case or it's in a local community.

[10:00:02]

So, carry out your investigations. You can't stray away from power and money. You have to target the ones that need to be targeted, no matter who they are or what they're doing for anyone else. And so that is what we need to start with there.

TAPPER: Yes.

HELM: And the media, I would say, no one wants to see...

TAPPER: We're out of time, Teresa. I'm sorry.

HELM: OK.

TAPPER: I really -- we literally have three seconds.

Thanks for sharing your stories with us.

And thank you for spending your Sunday morning with us.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts now.