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State of the Union

Trump Issues Threat to Iran Over Strait of Hormuz; Interview With NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman; Interview With Sen. Raphael Warnock (D-GA). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired April 05, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): "We got him." President Trump says U.S. forces have rescued the missing airman in a daring mission deep in Iranian territory overnight. How did they pull it off? And what does it mean for the future of the war?

A former White House adviser who has negotiated with Iran, Brett McGurk, and my panel break it down.

And the far side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And liftoff.

TAPPER: The Artemis crew just hours away from going where no human has gone before. What do they expect to find on the dark side of the moon?

JARED ISAACMAN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: They want to know the risks they're taking is part of something bigger.

TAPPER: NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman joins me ahead.

Plus: Easter sermon. In a deeply divided America, one senator shares his faith on Christianity's holiest day.

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Easter is the preacher's Super Bowl. What does unity mean for the pastor of Martin Luther King Junior's church?

TAPPER (on camera): Do you pray for the president?

(voice-over): Senator and Reverend Raphael Warnock next.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello and happy Easter. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington with breaking news. President Trump says a U.S. weapon systems officer is -- quote --

"seriously wounded" this morning after being rescued in a daring and heroic mission launched by over -- launched by U.S. forces inside Iran overnight.

The injured airman survived being shot down behind enemy lines, CNN has learned, by hiding alone in a mountain crevice before he was rescued in a massive effort involving hundreds of American military and intelligence personnel.

But if you were wondering how the success of that operation might affect the president's posture toward Iran moving forward, wonder no longer. He has just threatened Iran in extraordinary graphic terms, giving the Iranian regime just over a day to either make a deal, reopen the Strait of Hormuz, or face hell.

If your children are watching, be warned, the president did not use polite language -- quote -- "Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day all wrapped up in one in Iran. There will be nothing like it. Open the fucking strait, you crazy bastards, or you will be living in hell. Just watch."

We should note that destroying civilian power infrastructure is generally considered to constitute a war crime under international law, though the president could argue that the infrastructure has dual use and also is utilized by Iran's military.

Let's get right to CNN chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto, who is covering the war for us from Tel Aviv, Israel, for more details.

Jim, we are learning new details about how this airman avoided capture.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jake, a daring and dangerous exercise involving dozens of aircraft, hundreds of U.S. military personnel, including commando units on the ground, and the truly remarkable efforts of this weapons officer to evade capture for more than 24 hours.

It began, of course, on Friday with the shoot-down of this F-15. I'm told that the U.S. first received a communication from the missing pilot later that evening, indicating he was injured.

That then kicked off more than 24 hours of parallel efforts to bring him home safely, mobilizing those search-and-rescue teams to get in on the ground to rescue him, but also CIA operatives helping to locate him, in addition to that, a CIA information campaign to spread disinformation inside Iran, in effect to throw Iranian authorities off the trail, spreading information there that both pilots had already been captured, which was not true.

At the same time, Iran launching its own efforts to try to find the pilot, going so far as broadcasting to Iranian residents to look for the pilot, report his location, offering a reward to do so. Ultimately, the U.S. effort won out. It won that race to get him out

safely. He had climbed 7,000 feet up a hillside, hiding inside a crevice, and then those aircraft came in and were able to get him out. We should note this was a costly exercise.

At least two U.S. aircraft were lost, destroyed in the operation, damaged, and then, as a result, U.S. forces went in to destroy them, so that they couldn't be used by Iranian authorities, a remarkable more-than-24-hour period with a result, it's certainly of great relief to the U.S. military, but, of course, that pilot's family.

TAPPER: Yes, leave no one behind.

And just this morning, Jim, President Trump posted this new...

[09:05:01]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAPPER: ... extraordinary threat to Iran on TRUTH Social.

SCIUTTO: Listen, Jake, from the early days of this war, President Trump had said that this was a war to help the Iranian people take down their government. He stopped that language now, encouraging them to do so, more targeting the regime.

But this, to your point, as you raised in the introduction, raises a question about exactly what kind of targets the U.S. is aiming for here, because they include civilian infrastructure. And, yes, while they could be dual use, you and I have covered the Ukraine war for four years and watched Russia target civilian infrastructure there, which has drawn a great deal of understandable criticism from U.S. and NATO officials.

So it would take it to a level that would certainly impact the Iranian population, even if the government and other forces are using these facilities. And that, of course, raises a whole new set of questions as to, well, what the next stage of this war will look like.

TAPPER: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Stay safe.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAPPER: I want to bring in now a real expert, a former White House senior adviser who has negotiated with Iran across four presidential administrations, Brett McGurk.

So, Brett, thank you so much for being here.

This latest TRUTH Social post from the president, let's start with that. He calls on Iran to "open the fucking strait, you crazy bastards." I'm quoting. Apologies.

He also said "Glory be to God" in a previous one. What are you thinking when you saw this recent post? BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: My thought is, I can --

this is an escalate to try to get a deal. That's not going to get a deal. I mean, with diplomacy with Iran, a lot of it is secret, back- channel, because they publicly posture, we publicly posture.

It makes it very hard to actually, I think, achieve what he's trying to achieve there. I very much share the goal. I think that for this to conclude with Iran in control of the Strait of Hormuz, Jake, I think would be a very bad outcome.

And the question here is, how do you now achieve that objective? And it's also striking the president in his national address the other night suggested the Strait of Hormuz was not an objective for us. I think now at least colorfully he seems to be suggesting it is.

And, again, this is just kind of shifting objectives in terms of what exactly we're trying to achieve here.

TAPPER: So, just to read the whole thing: "Open the fucking strait, you crazy bastards, or you will be living in hell. Just watch."

And then he says: "Praise be to Allah, President Donald J. Trump."

What does invoking Allah achieve, if anything?

MCGURK: Yesterday, he said glory to God. Now he's saying the same thing in Arabic. I would leave that out of it. I don't really understand what that's trying to achieve.

I think, look, we're in a war, Jake. I think what happened last night is extraordinary.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCGURK: One thing I very much agree that the president said, this should be something that is celebrated by all Americans. I fully agree with that, extraordinary, extraordinary development.

The question, though, now is, where do we go from here? And you can retrospectively say we should have done the operation differently, should have -- we are where we are. We're in a very difficult predicament. And I think the next two weeks, what I expect is escalation against Iran, in the hope that they meet our demands.

That's on enrichment. It's on missiles, terrorism, and now the Strait of Hormuz. If they don't, and if there's not a deal, we have a real inflection point, because then do we just say, this operation's over and Iran actually comes out controlling that artery?

Or, or do we militarily try to actually seize and control the strait, which is a major operation? I think that's kind of where this is heading. So, as we look ahead to this month, this war potentially could escalate.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the mission to rescue that soldier. It's incredibly impressive that the U.S. military pulled this off. It's also incredibly dangerous.

I'm old enough to remember the ill-fated...

MCGURK: Yes.

TAPPER: ... rescue mission Eagle Claw in 1980, where we lost some service members who were trying to rescue the American hostages in Iran. How does a mission like this happen?

MCGURK: Jake, this is actually -- Eagle Claw is important. I was in contact with a lot of my former colleagues in the special forces community that I have just been so honored and privileged to work with over so many years.

And this is really full circle for that community. The Joint Special Operations Command, JSOC, was formed after that ill-fated operation. We lost eight soldiers in 1980 in that operation in Iran to try to rescue Americans, those hostages.

Here, we just went into Iran, the most hostile territory you can imagine, to rescue two Americans. The operation was successful. Obviously, there was some material damage. It is extraordinary, and it is because of what we have done through our military forces, through our special operators, all the jointness and the training and everything else over so many years.

Nobody else can do this. An anecdote. When Iran's president was lost in a helicopter crash some years ago in the Biden administration, Iran actually sent a message to us asking if we could help find the helicopter. So nobody else has these capabilities. Nobody else is more determined to make sure, when we send our men and women overseas, we have that search-and-rescue capability on call at any moment.

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And, here, they just demonstrated to the world what they can do.

TAPPER: So, after the president gave the two-to-three-week deadline, two military aircraft were shot down, two military aircraft were shot down, CNN learned that U.S. intelligence is privately contradicting the president's claim. They say Iran's missile stockpile is not decimated, but half of it still exists, also drones.

The president also previously claimed that the Iranians had no anti- aircraft equipment. That's obviously not true. What does it say to you that Iran has successfully downed two U.S. aircraft in recent days? Thankfully, all of the Americans are safe and alive.

MCGURK: It's after thousands of sorties. I think you have to put this in perspective. We lost 44 aircraft in the 1991 Gulf War.

But, obviously, it's concerning if Iran still has these capabilities that they can pop out and have an effective shot like this. I know our military folks in CENTCOM are studying very much what happened. Is this a new capability? Is this something we didn't fully anticipate? What does it mean going forward? (CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Does it mean the Chinese and Russians are helping them also?

MCGURK: Well, I certainly hope not.

One thing, Jake, that could bring coherence to this military campaign is connecting a little bit to Russia, which you just mentioned. I mean, the Iranian missile and drone program is a huge, huge international problem. It's under Chapter 7 sanctions. They proliferate the stuff to terrorists around the Middle East and to Russia.

Russia prosecutes its war on Ukraine with Iranian technology. And you can actually connect the two. Unfortunately, over the last week, we've actually been dividing NATO.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCGURK: And I think that actually helps the Russian position.

But, no, this is a serious problem, Jake. I hope, after this amazing rescue, we bring some coherence to the operation very clear on the objectives and how we're going to get that strait opened. Hope there's a deal, but I don't think there will be. And then we're going to have some big decisions to make.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Brett McGurk, as always, thank you for your expertise, and happy Easter to you and your family.

MCGURK: Thank you.

TAPPER: President Trump's remarkable threat to Iran, what does it mean for the future of the U.S. War? That's next.

And then: For almost an hour tomorrow, the four Artemis astronauts are going to lose all contact with all of us here on Earth. What are they expecting to see on the dark side of the moon? The NASA administrator is live ahead.

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[09:16:13]

TAPPER: We're back with more analysis, as President Trump threatens to attack Iran's bridges and power plants on Tuesday if they don't -- quote -- I'm quoting now -- "reopen the fucking strait" -- unquote.

My panel is here to discuss.

Let me start with you, former Congresswoman Wild of Pennsylvania, a Democrat.

The president's threatening to blow up Iran's power plants and bridges. "Open the fucking strait, you crazy bastards. You will be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah, President Donald Trump."

What's your response?

FMR. REP. SUSAN WILD (D-PA): And happy Sunday morning.

TAPPER: Happy Easter.

WILD: It -- clearly, we're escalating.

And, first, let me just say I'm incredibly relieved that the two airmen have been successfully rescued.

TAPPER: Yes. Amen.

WILD: And props to our special ops teams. They're amazing.

But the war is going in the wrong direction, and I'm deeply concerned about it, about the American people, about the Iranian civilians and children, and the lack of -- what I see as complete lack of leadership and strategy.

TAPPER: So you heard Brett McGurk earlier saying that he sees this as President Trump trying to escalate the language so as to get a deal, but he doesn't know that it will work necessarily. What's your take?

BILL STEPIEN, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I think that could be the case. Do I agree with the language or the deadline-setting? Not necessarily. But, if we're going to do this, let's do this. Let's not be here for a long time. Let's not prolong this.

We see polling is not in the favor of a prolonged conflict. We're seeing, to your point, shooting down our airmen. This is not a place we want to be. If we're going to do this, do this. He offered the same threat to Venezuela. That was a successful incursion. Let's make the threat. Let's get out as soon as possible.

NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: What is "this," though? This is what I have been trying to figure out, right?

I have been a diplomat. I have been in a variety of situations where the words really matter for what you're trying to use your military objectives for. And the words have been so all over the place. And, today, seeing this on Easter Sunday, with the pope, of all people, saying that this -- you should be using your words for peace, not for war.

But I come back to Lindsey Graham and his talk about holy war. I come back to the fact that the secretary of war has been referencing Jesus and how this is all meant to be. And now, OK, we have a U.S. president praising Allah. Not where I expected this would come from.

But I absolutely have personal concern in the fact that an American president is now talking -- using crusader-like language against a population not -- that's Iran. That's also allies. That hits millions of people around the world, including people here in the United States.

So, I see this as a flailing message, a flailing sense of targeting and purpose, and a president who just wants out, and has now struck a nerve on something that sounds really tough, but has a historical significance and a much bigger danger and can of worms that's being opened.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A few things this morning. First of all, happy Easter.

TAPPER: Happy Easter to you, Scott.

JENNINGS: And, second of all...

TAPPER: I told you to wear Easter clothes.

(LAUGHTER)

JENNINGS: And I followed directions.

TAPPER: OK.

JENNINGS: Second, this story of us rescuing this airman is nothing short of incredible.

TAPPER: Yes.

JENNINGS: And what the United States military is able to pull off, I mean, it's just amazing. So...

TAPPER: We're the only ones, yes.

JENNINGS: I mean, to be -- to say that we're thankful for this military operation this morning, it doesn't even capture how incredible it is.

Number three, I think there are two things going on with the language. Number one, there's public posturing from both regimes, or our government and their regime. And, number two, there is private conversation going on. There was some reporting just a few minutes ago from Trey Yingst at FOX News, who apparently spoke to Trump just a few minutes ago.

[09:20:00]

And he said he thought tomorrow might be a big day for the possibility of a deal. So I -- what the public language is and what the private conversations are going on, I -- I think maybe we're not quite in a position to know that this morning.

I mean, the hope would be that a deal can be reached here and that we do meet our objectives, which are clear. We're not going to have Iran be the largest state sponsor of terrorism anymore. They're not going to have ballistic missile program that can threaten us and our allies. They're not going to have nuclear missiles. They're not going to have an aggressive navy that threatens ships and

the Strait of Hormuz, so -- and in the Gulf. So that -- I mean, if that's what comes out of this, that would be great. Now, where we are in that process, I think, remains somewhat opaque, to me, at least, this morning.

TAPPER: Congresswoman, I wonder, do you think this message from the president this morning conveys strength or do you think it conveys a desperation for a deal because he wants to get out of this war?

WILD: I don't see it as strength. That's for sure.

I see it as -- I hearken back to my grandmother, who said that people who use their words properly have more impact, and this is why you shouldn't use bad words and that kind of thing.

Well, when you resort to that kind of language, what it tells me is, you don't really have anything to say. It's just a lot of belligerence. And what I want to hear is, they don't have to -- they don't have to loop us in on their military strategy, but I sure would like to see something that looks like there is a strategy for bringing this war to an end.

And I'm not saying that at all. I mean, everything that is -- the president is doing is designed to provoke and escalate.

TAPPER: Bill, you have always been someone who speaks softly and carries a big stick. This is not how you negotiate things, in my experience covering you.

STEPIEN: Yes, and that's my personal -- but this is also the first call it war fought in this age of social media with this president. I think he does things very differently. I think he does things in his own way, different than Biden, different than Obama.

And I think we're seeing this playing out this morning.

HAQ: I think the irony in all of this is that Iran has shown its capabilities in two ways, where the United States is unfortunately catching up. One is using cheap drones, which is -- they have been providing those to Russia to use in Ukraine. So they have lots of experiments with that.

And the second is the meme war and Internet propaganda, which is something actually the Iranians have been known for and influencing. And so they had -- for all of our talk on our side of all the people killed in the regime, they have been pushing out through multiple channels around the world, images of the American army generals and military people who have also lost their jobs at this time.

So, again, the way this looks out in the public is not a United States that is locked and loaded and working in one direction.

JENNINGS: Do you think that the Iranians would rather have their entire navy back or their memes?

HAQ: Oh, I think the -- I think that, no, when we're talking a ...

JENNINGS: I mean, come on. We have destroyed 13,000 military partners. And they have memes.

(CROSSTALK)

HAQ: This is a just big distinction, is that we're fighting the war on their land. So they have a say. If they survive, that's a win for them. That's it.

So their stakes are so much higher, but they have to do so much less to be able to maintain some kind of credibility. Second -- that's the Iranian regime I'm talking about.

The people of Iran, even back to George Bush, have suffered. They have always had sanctions on them. They just want some relief. And President Trump started this whole thing by saying, this is your time. Now you can come and take over your government.

And now they're losing electricity. They're losing civilian bridges. They're losing clean water. I mean, this is -- this is nobody, United States or the regime, is helping the people of Iran.

TAPPER: Final word, Scott?

JENNINGS: Oh, I just -- look, I think the United States military, what we have achieved is nothing short of incredible.

I think this rescue mission shows what we can do with U.S. Special Forces, by the way, in a short period of time, which the Iranians ought to take note of.

And, on Easter, I just pray for an outcome here that makes the American people and Western civilization safer.

TAPPER: All right, we will end it there.

He calls it the preacher's Super Bowl. The Reverend and Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock is coming up next. He's going to talk about why he's urging people to give each other a little grace on this Easter Sunday. Does he include President Trump in that?

Stay tuned.

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[09:28:19]

TAPPER: As tens of millions of Christians wake up to celebrate the holiest day of the year, here is the first American pope ever leading his first Easter service as pontiff.

I had a special conversation a few days ago with the senior pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta. One of his predecessors was the reverend Martin Luther King Jr., and the pastor preaching this morning is also involved in politics. He's the senator and Reverend Raphael Warnock.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARNOCK: Hey, you all. Good morning. I can do one selfie with everybody. Come on. All right, everybody, come on, you all.

I got to go, you all. Take care.

TAPPER: So this is your other job? You're not...

(LAUGHTER)

WARNOCK: This is my first job.

TAPPER: This is your first job.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: The Senate is your...

WARNOCK: No, I wouldn't say that.

TAPPER: ... your side hustle.

(LAUGHTER)

WARNOCK: No, no, no, no. I often say that I'm not a senator who used to be a pastor. I'm a pastor in the Senate.

And in a real sense, my work in the Senate is an extension of my ministry, not in the sectarian sense. I'm not there trying to convert anybody. I'm just bringing the values of my faith to power.

TAPPER: How? How do you do that?

WARNOCK: Well, there are values that I think that are resonant not only in my faith, but all the great faith traditions, love, compassion, truth-telling, justice-making, centering the most marginalized members of the human family. That's what my preaching and ministry has been about for years.

And now I get to preach that sermon every now and then on the floor of the United States Senate. I don't know, if you hear me on the floor of the Senate, hear me in the pulpit. I don't know that there's much difference.

[09:30:00]

TAPPER: Really? Interesting.

How do you prepare for an Easter sermon? That's the big one, right, of the year? That's the most important one?

WARNOCK: Easter is the preacher's Super Bowl.

TAPPER: Yes. (LAUGHTER)

WARNOCK: You try not to think about it too much. And what helps me is the recognition that it's not about me. It's -- the Gospel is its own power.

And my job is to go deep into the text, into the faith prayerfully, and then get out of the way.

TAPPER: The other thing that is so intense, I would think, is that -- is just having been here for 21 years, having been at one of the most famous churches in the world, following in the footsteps of one of the greatest men that ever lived.

Does that create another added level of pressure? Or are you used to that now, 21 years later?

WARNOCK: From day one, I always said that I'm not here to try to walk in his shoes. And I say that because people ask me all the time, what it's like to walk in Dr. King's shoes?

TAPPER: Yes.

WARNOCK: I don't know because I have never tried. I'm clear that my job is to stand on his shoulders, not to walk in his shoes.

TAPPER: That's wise.

WARNOCK: Hi, love. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless you.

WARNOCK: God bless you, sweetheart.

TAPPER: One of the things that I think a lot of people don't know about the original Ebenezer Baptist is that Dr. King's mom was assassinated there.

WARNOCK: That's right.

TAPPER: A lot of people just don't know that that happened.

WARNOCK: Yes, it was a very dark moment in our congregation's history in 1974, really just as worship was beginning. She was on the organ playing The Lord's Prayer when a deranged teenager came in and said, I'm taking over.

And he began to shoot and killed Martin Luther King Jr.'s mother.

TAPPER: I'm in no way comparing Charlie Kirk to Martin Luther King or Mrs. King, the mother. But do you remember that moment when Erika Kirk forgave her husband's assassin?

WARNOCK: Not only do I remember that moment. Right after his assassination, or right after his murder, I went to the floor of the United States Senate to condemn his killing and all forms of political violence. I was honest in that moment. I have to be honest now.

I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk.

TAPPER: Right.

WARNOCK: For me, even though we're both Christians, he represents a view of the faith that is the polar opposite to mine.

But I affirmed his right to think what he thought, to say what he believed, to change his mind or not.

When we sing, we recite. And when we recite, we remember.

TAPPER: When people respond to things you're saying, they're like, oh, people like this, they're responding to this, and you head more in that direction, deviate from the script?

WARNOCK: Some of the best moments in my preaching are not in the manuscript.

And this is -- call and response is a big part of this tradition, the black Baptist tradition, black church tradition. The sermon is not a monologue. It's a dialogue between the pulpit and the pew. And you hear it and you feel it.

And I think the best preaching happens when, after having done your work and study, like a good jazz musician, you just become one with the moment. And, in that sense, it's improvisational. And so even on the Sundays when I preach the same sermon if I have multiple services, it's never the same sermon.

It's informed by the moment. It's informed by who's in the room.

TAPPER: I'm sure you encounter quite a bit African-American members of your church, Baptists, who are more socially conservative than you, who say, I'm with you on the hunger, I'm with you on the kindness, but Laken Riley was murdered by an undocumented immigrant and I see nothing compassionate about having him in this country.

Or they talk about abortion or they talk about other things that maybe are not in line with your politics. How do you confront that?

WARNOCK: Oh, we're Baptists.

(LAUGHTER)

WARNOCK: And there's a range of beliefs and perspectives in this house, and I welcome them all.

TAPPER: And you just say, I disagree with you, but you're welcome here?

WARNOCK: Yes, I mean, we -- I preach to Democrats, Republicans and independents, libertarians every Sunday. And I think that we need to -- we could all use a little bit more grace these days, grace for people who don't share our point of view. [09:35:04]

TAPPER: Do you pray for the president?

WARNOCK: Oh, absolutely. He needs a lot of prayer.

TAPPER: What do you pray for? What do you ask God for?

WARNOCK: Well, I pray inasmuch as he has influence and power over people I care about.

I affirm his humanity, as I affirm the humanity of anybody and everybody. But part of that prayer is about accountability. I have to be honest about what he's doing. His kind of unabashed, unvarnished bigotry, the cruelty that he is unleashing on American streets through his version of ICE, those things have to be condemned.

And so, for me, prayer and prophetic speech, which holds power accountable, those two things go hand in hand. I am not about to be the chaplain blessing that which is ungodly and unjust.

TAPPER: There are a lot of religious leaders who go to the White House and not only pray for the president, but make a show of suggesting that he was chosen by God for this mission.

WARNOCK: Yes, they're wrong.

And there were Christians who thought that slavery was somehow Godlike, American chattel slavery, and they justified it. And they used Scriptures to support their position.

It just so happens that I'm the product of a countervailing tradition that was literally born fighting for freedom, that understood that God didn't create us to be slaves. That's why the black church was emerged.

When we say the black church, we have never meant anything racially exclusive about that. We are literally talking about the anti-slavery church, a church that was born correcting the American heresy that somehow tried to reconcile the faith of Jesus to slavery.

TAPPER: We have seen some really ugly expressions of anti-Muslim bigotry from Republican politicians, Randy Fine Andy Ogles, two members of Congress, Senator Tuberville, just...

WARNOCK: It's bigotry.

TAPPER: .. outright Muslims shouldn't be in this country, et cetera.

WARNOCK: It's hate. I mean, we shouldn't play around with this stuff, because it's dangerous and it's deadly.

This kind of hate, this kind of bigotry, it is a poor reflection on the faith. And I think it's -- quite frankly, it's part of what turns a lot of people off from the church these days. TAPPER: There's also been a real outbreak in antisemitism, not just

on the right, but also on the left. How concerned are you about that, the antisemitism within the Democratic Party or the progressive movement?

WARNOCK: We have to condemn hate, including antisemitism, wherever and whenever it rears its ugly head.

And I have been clear about this across the years. We have to condemn it. And Dr. King from this pulpit at Ebenezer was very clear about that, that injustice anywhere, he said, is a threat to justice everywhere.

TAPPER: What are you going to tell your parishioners Easter Sunday? What is your message going to be and how do you want them to feel when they leave here?

WARNOCK: The story of the resurrection is the story of hope in the midst of despair. I talk a lot about hope. I don't talk too much about optimism.

Optimism, for me, is milquetoast. It's thin. Often, it denies the tragic character of human experience, the tragedy that sits at the heart of our politics. Hope recognizes that there is a tomb, that there was a crucifixion, and that there are a lot of people all over the world who live right there in a Good Friday world.

But Resurrection Sunday reminds us that that tomb does not have the last word, that there is always hope, that there is human possibility and that we have a shot at working alongside God and, together with God, writing a new chapter for human possibility.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Another giant leap for mankind, four astronauts set to travel farther from Earth than anyone ever has.

With just hours to go, is everything on track? Well, we're going to check in with the head of NASA next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:44:26]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Four human beings are about to get farther away from planet Earth than anyone ever has in history. That's because, tomorrow, the Artemis shuttle begins its lunar approach, when astronauts will see parts of the moon that are as of now totally unexplored, and they will briefly lose all contact with Mission Control here on Earth.

Joining us now is NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman.

Mr. Isaacman, thank you so much for joining us on this historic day.

[09:45:01]

Tomorrow is the moment everyone's waiting for. Is everything a go for the lunar flyby? What exactly will the astronauts be looking for on the far side of the moon?

ISAACMAN: Good morning, Jake. Happy Easter.

And, yes, this is an incredibly exciting mission. Right now, the astronauts have been on a go for some time. Actually, in fact, the moment we committed them to the translunar injection, where we were to send them farther into space than humans ever have gone before, they were committed around the path around the moon and then starting their journey back safely to Earth.

So, essentially, in the next 24 hours, they will be on the far side of the moon. They will eclipse that record. And we're going to learn an awful lot about the spacecraft, which is pretty paramount to set up for subsequent missions, like Artemis III in 2027, and, of course, the lunar landing itself on Artemis IV in 2028.

TAPPER: So, the Artemis crew and Mission Control, as you know better than I, will experience a 30-to-50-, 5-0, minute communications blackout when the moon is positioned directly between the spacecraft and planet Earth.

It's planned. We all know about it. But how much is it giving you heartburn?

ISAACMAN: I would say the communication blackout is not much of a high blood pressure moment for us.

It's actually quite routine to have loss of communications, even in missions in low Earth orbit. A lot of times, if you pay attention, the International Space Station crew, we will have pretty extensive periods where we have no video coverage and even no audio coverage.

In fact, I think on my last mission in space, we had almost 24 hours of a period of time where we had some limited communication capability. So that's not actually the concern area at all. I'd say we're focusing very much on the ECLSS system, the life support system of the spacecraft.

This is the first time astronauts have ever flown on this spacecraft before. That's what we're most interested in getting data from. That's what's going to help inform subsequent missions like, again, Artemis III and IV in the future.

TAPPER: I think all of us would appreciate an update on the astronauts' toilet, which was working better, the last we heard.

With all this priceless equipment, it does seem that the toilet is giving the most trouble?

ISAACMAN: Well, I just want to be clear. Throughout the history of human spaceflight, so going from the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo program, to shuttle, to Mir and International Space Station to Dragon, which I flew on, and, of course, Orion, the toilet working is almost a bonus capability.

This is something that we can do a lot of extraordinary things in space right now, but nailing this capability is one that we need to certainly work on. I will say we build in a lot of backups. So there's different vent lines, for example, for urine. Even when we have an issue with some freezing on the primary, the secondary has been working.

So, believe me, the astronauts, they're OK right now, and they were well prepared for the situation.

TAPPER: While this incredible mission is going on, the president dropped his new budget proposal on Friday, and that proposal would cut NASA's total spending by nearly a quarter, $5.6 billion.

The moon missions would still be funded, but other proposed cuts include a $3.4 billion reduction in science missions. Do you support the president's proposed cuts to NASA?

ISAACMAN: Yes, of course I do.

I would first put things in context. NASA's budget is greater than every other space agency across the world. NASA's science budget is greater than every other space agency combined across the world. A lot of that takes out a context the $10 billion investment in President Trump's signature One Big Beautiful Bill or Working Families Tax Cut credit.

That's what gives us the capability to get to the moon with frequency, to build the enduring presence on the moon, the moon base, which in itself is going to afford numerous scientific and technological development opportunities.

We are able to launch the Grace Roman Space Telescope at the end of 2026, 100 times the field of view of the Hubble telescope, 1,000 times the scan rate. We're going to launch a nuclear-powered octocopter in 2028 to explore Saturn's moon of Titan within the budget environment.

We're going to be able to launch the first-of-its-kind nuclear interplanetary space probe in 2028 to go past Mars and drop off a series of helicopters within the president's budget request. We absolutely have the resources. NASA doesn't have a top-line problem. We just need to focus on executing and delivering world-changing outcomes.

TAPPER: Before you go, sir, I would be remiss if I didn't ask a question on behalf of the millions and millions of Americans interested in space exploration, at least in part to solve the mystery of whether we are truly alone in the universe.

Does the prospect of alien existence factor in at all into how we plan NASA missions?

ISAACMAN: I would say it goes to the heart of many things that we do at NASA. I mean, our job here is to go out and try and unlock the secrets of

the universe. And one of those questions is, are we alone? So I would say that is inherent in every one of our scientific endeavors, our exploration endeavors.

Even building the moon base on the south pole of the moon at some point, we will be able to incorporate telescopes that will help us continue this great search, not to mention all the subsequent telescopes that we're going to launch, like I mentioned, Nancy Grace Roman.

[09:50:10]

So it's inherent in our mission.

TAPPER: Are we alone?

ISAACMAN: I have been to space twice. I didn't encounter any aliens up there yet. I have not seen anything to suggest that we have been visited by any intelligent life forms out there.

But when you think about it, we got two trillion galaxies out there. Who knows how many star systems within each of it? I would say the odds that we will find something at some point to suggest that we are not alone are pretty high.

TAPPER: Administrator Isaacman, thank you so much. Congratulations, prematurely, but so far on a mission going so great. And happy Easter to you and your family.

ISAACMAN: Thank you. Happy Easter. We will celebrate when they're under parachutes in the water.

TAPPER: OK, sounds good.

An Easter message for all of us here on Earth from one of the astronauts looking at us from space -- his stirring Easter message next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:42]

TAPPER: We'd like to leave you today with a special Easter message, this one from a most unlikely place, outer space.

Take a listen to astronaut Victor Glover.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR GLOVER, ARTEMIS II PILOT, NASA: In all of this emptiness -- this is a whole bunch of nothing, this thing we call the universe. You have this oasis, this beautiful place that we get to exist together.

I think, as we go into Easter Sunday thinking about all the cultures all around the world, whether you celebrate it or not, whether you believe in God or not, this is an opportunity for us to remember where we are, who we are, and that we are the same thing and that we got to get through this together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Happy Easter.

Fareed Zakaria is next.