Return to Transcripts main page

State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE); Interview With U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Markwayne Mullin; Interview With Gov. Mike DeWine (R-OH); Interview With Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC); Interview With Gov. Wes Moore (D-MD); Interview With Sen. Raphael Warnock (D- GA). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired June 28, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:28]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Safe Haven? The Supreme Court hands President Trump a huge deportation victory.

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: Temporary means temporary.

TAPPER: But, as a key Republican says, that's an expensive mistake. Will Americans agree? Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin is next, and then Ohio Governor Mike DeWine responds.

Plus: split ends. Trump gears up for a historic Fourth featuring himself, as he feuds with his own party. But as Democrats confront their own split, are they handing Republicans an opportunity?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Communism, it destroys everything.

TAPPER: Republican Senator Thom Tillis and then Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock join me ahead.

And on the brink? As the U.S. and Iran exchange fire, I'll talk to veterans turned political leaders about what they might do differently. Governor Wes Moore, Congressman Don Bacon, and author Rye Barcott are coming up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is watching for fireworks.

We're looking to the Middle East this morning as an exchange of strikes between the U.S. and Iran threatens negotiations between the two countries, particularly over the Strait of Hormuz, which Iran is signaling it still wants to control. This does not look much like a cease-fire, in the sense that the fire

has not ceased. We will have more on that this hour, but let's begin with the bombshell ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court this week, which gives the Trump administration the authority to end TPS, or Temporary Protected Status, for immigrants living here who fled armed conflict in their home countries and are here legally, or at least they were.

The ruling has sent more than 350,000 immigrants from Haiti and Syria into something of a state of panic, as they prepare for possible deportations back to Haiti and Syria amid questions about how and when the Department of Homeland Security will act.

Joining us now is the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Markwayne Mullin, who joins us from his home in Oklahoma.

Thanks so much for joining us, Mr. Secretary.

So, more than 350,000 people from Haiti and Syria who have lived and worked legally in this country under TPS, will you be deporting all of them? Will they be all deported back to their home countries, Haiti and Syria? And when will these deportations start? Will it be immediately?

MARKWAYNE MULLIN, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, Jake, first of all, Temporary Protected Status was never intended to be permanent. And there's a lot of people that came over here 15, 20 years ago underneath TPS that's already changed their status.

The whole time these individuals have been here underneath the Temporary Protected Status, they could have applied for a visa. They could have applied for LPR. They could have applied for different directions. But the status itself can be ended in its name itself by saying temporary.

So, these individuals have a couple of choices. They can try to apply for a -- for a permanent residence here. They can apply for a temporary visa if they choose to, or they can choose to go back. And if they want to go back, we will help them with that.

If I would -- if I was talking directly to the individuals with the Temporary Protected Status, either try to fill out the paperwork and be here underneath a permanent status, or we will help you get back to your country.

We will actually give you a plane ticket, plus roughly $2,100 to help you re-establish when you get there. But Temporary Protected Status, according to the courts and in its name itself, is not permanent status.

TAPPER: So, if the 350,000 Temporary Protected Status holders right now start applying for permanent status, start applying for visas, will they not be deported? Is that a way for them to stay in the U.S. legal?

MULLIN: Well, it depends on if they qualify or not. Underneath some visas, when you overstay your visa, when you -- you

have to go back to the country you came from. Underneath TPS, while it is still -- and while it is still an order, you're able to apply for different status.

Now, that doesn't mean that it's going to be accepted. There's a lot of things that take into consideration. First of all, have you been here and been charged with a felony, or do you have a criminal background? Do you have pending charges against you? Those won't be accepted.

If you have been here and you have been living off the taxpayer dollars, meaning that you have you're part of social, those won't be accepted either. If you have been here and you have had a full-time paying job, under some circumstances, those would apply.

[09:05:10]

But you have to go through the regular steps that every other immigrant that wants to come to the country legally has to go through. So I can't say that everybody is going to be accepted, but you are eligible to apply. Nothing prevents you from applying -- from filling out the application, but nothing's prevented them since they have been here underneath TPS either.

TAPPER: So, obviously, you're correct that the T in TPS stands for temporary.

MULLIN: That's right.

TAPPER: The Trump administration's argument is that this was only supposed to last 18 months. My understanding of how the process works is, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security has the discretion to extend it if the U.S. State Department says that the countries that these people are from are still considered unsafe, which is why they were afforded TPS status to begin with.

Is it the position of the Trump administration that Haiti is a safe country to send these people to?

MULLIN: Well, we take a lot of things in consideration.

Secretary Rubio, the president and I have had multiple conversations about this, obviously. There's not there's -- the qualification isn't quite just that simple. And keep in mind, a lot of these individuals haven't been here 18 months. They have been here 18 years. Some of them have been here 20 years, 30 years.

They have had plenty of time to reestablish their status inside the United States. They have just chose not to. Then there's some that has been here the underneath the Biden administration that took advantage of an open border. And those individuals didn't really come over here because they needed protective status. They came over here because they were taking advantage of a weak leadership.

So what we want, and the president has made this very clear, those that are coming to this country legally, they need to be able to contribute to the -- to the United States, not be a burden on the taxpayers.

And so we are continuing looking at our Temporary Protected Status. Those individuals that do need assistance because of the country they're in, we're always looking at -- looking at them. There isn't a more generous country in the world than the United States, but we don't want people to take advantage of it.

TAPPER: Right.

But do you maintain that it is safe in Haiti to send these people back?

MULLIN: Well, I think, like I said, Jake, this is a decision that's being made from the State Department, from myself and the president, and there's a lot of things that we look at as when we take this in consideration.

It's not just one factor that plays into this.

TAPPER: The reason I ask is because I heard Stephen Miller, who is driving a lot of this, say that Haiti is safe for Haitians.

And I just looked at the State Department's Web site, and they have a level four do not travel advisory for Haiti just from a few months ago, from April, and it says -- quote -- "Violent crime is rampant. The expansion of gang organized crime and terrorist activity has led to widespread violence. Crimes involving firearms are common. Crimes include robbery, carjacking, sexual assault and kidnappings for ransom."

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: That doesn't sound safe to me.

MULLIN: Well, that do not travel is not for Haitians. That's do not travel for the United States, because they are kidnapping or trying to kidnap individuals from the United States because they feel like they -- their family has the money to pay the ransom.

We have a -- we have do not travel in places in Mexico or advisory warnings. In fact, if you go through our Web site in the State Department, you will see there's advisories to a lot of places that are vacation destinations that we have advisories on because of the real risk to Americans.

That doesn't mean it's a risk to the individuals that live there. So that isn't -- that advisory is to American citizens traveling to Haiti, not Haitians going back home.

TAPPER: I understand that, but, based on everything I have read, including the U.N. and Human Rights Watch, it doesn't sound safe for Haitians. More than 8,100 killings documented last year, those weren't Americans. Haiti is among the top five countries with the highest rates of rape

and sexual abuse, with more than 1,200 cases of sexual violence last year. That's not Americans; 1.4 million people have been displaced. Those aren't Americans.

MULLIN: Is there a question in that? Jake, I'm sorry. I...

TAPPER: Well, I'm just saying -- let me let me ask you, you said you're going to give them a plane ticket if they want to get out and go back to Haiti.

How logistically would it happen? Because the FAA prohibits commercial flights to Port-au-Prince because of the gunfire from terrorists and gangs. Civil aviation, by the way, is also prohibited in Syria.

MULLIN: So, we have several options for deporting individuals, because we have deportation flights, where we can get into areas where maybe commercial travel can't go to. So we'd simply book them on a flight. We expect to have pretty full flights going back to Haiti and going back to some of these countries where TPS has been eliminated.

So we will provide the travel for them. And, like I said, we will give them $2,100 roughly to go back home. We want the individuals to be repatriated to their country. Maybe they can go back there and help restore their countries. Syria is a prime example. Syria's come a long ways in just a few years underneath their new leadership that we have.

[09:10:17]

We truly expect that Syria can be a great country again. But it takes some -- it takes the people of Syria to build their country back. The same thing in Haiti. It takes the people of Haiti to win their country back.

If we really want those countries to succeed, then they need the best of the best to be back in their country living there. And we're going to assist them in that.

TAPPER: Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security Markwayne Mullin, thanks for joining us today, sir. Appreciate it.

MULLIN: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Ohio's Republican governor says the decision to deport Haitian immigrants and remove their TPS status is a mistake. And Ohio Governor Mike DeWine will join us to respond next.

And then: Could Iran talks be over almost before they begin? And what would that do to gas prices at your pump?

Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:15] TAPPER: We just heard Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin talking about deporting immigrants here in the U.S. on Temporary Protected Status, Haitians and Syrians.

My next guest is the Republican governor of Ohio, home to thousands of Haitian immigrants. He says what the Trump administration is doing with the Haitian community is a mistake.

Joining us now, Ohio Republican Governor Mike DeWine.

Governor, you just heard Secretary Mullin defend the decision. You say it's a mistake. What's your take?

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): Well, I think it's a mistake for a number of reasons.

First of all, to go back to what you were just discussing, you cannot fly into Port-au-Prince today. U.S. carriers are prohibited from going in there. They have extended that ban. Federal officials, the United States have extended that ban in into September now. And it's been there for a long time.

The reason they can't go in there is because these gang leaders, who control a good part of Haiti today, shoot at the planes when they come in. So that's certainly one thing. You have pointed out advisories, heavy advisories, U.S. citizens, do not go into Haiti. It's a very, very dangerous place.

Just this last week, several more schoolchildren were killed just because gangs were shooting back and forth. Gangs control a significant part of Haiti. So it is clearly not safe. Anybody who has followed Haiti over a long, extended period of time knows that it's worse than it has, frankly, ever been, and certainly in recent memory.

But the other point is, it is not in the United States' interests, certainly not in Ohio's interest, to have people who are working every single day, who are supporting a family, who are buying houses, fixing up old houses, starting businesses, and then put deep roots in this country and really are contributing and yank them out.

I mean, look at look at what the mayor of Springfield says. The mayor says that is a huge, huge mistake. They're contributing. Rob Rue says they're contributing greatly. Mistake to do that.

I would cite also the two Ohio congressmen who have probably the most Haitians, the Republicans who have the most Haitians in their district, voted in favor of the extension of TPS. So what I would hope that the Trump administration would do is reconsider this.

Look at how it's going to impact states like Ohio. In Ohio, the Haitians are working primarily in manufacturing. They're also working in the food area. But if you look at where they're working across the country, probably the most important area they're working is in health care.

It's Haitians who many times are taking care of your mom or your dad who has Alzheimer's, taking care of family members who might be in a nursing home. And to say we're going to pull all those out, it's just not in our own self-interest.

TAPPER: Yes, we have a -- the retirement home that my mom's in has a lot of Haitians, Haitian Americans working there. And Republican Congressman Mike Lawler has talked about that, what a drain it would be on the health care industry in New York.

Your fellow governor, Kathy Hochul of New York, she's vowed to fight the decision. Are you going to fight it?

DEWINE: Look, I accept the Supreme Court's decision. In this country, they're the final say of what the law is.

But I think that it's important that we separate the legal decision that was made by the Supreme Court with the issue of public policy. And we're now to the point of, we have to look again at the public policy. And, again, I would hope the Trump administration would reconsider what they -- what they are doing.

This is an administration that has focused a lot on jobs. These are jobs that are being filled by Haitians who are filling jobs that would not be filled any other way.

TAPPER: Yes.

DEWINE: The big picture in Ohio -- like, if I could just finish, the big picture in Ohio is, we are red hot. We are bringing companies in here. We're creating a lot of jobs. We have to do two things, and we have really focused on it, early childhood education, Dolly Parton Imagination Library.

My wife, Fran, is working on science of reading, career tech, more scholarships for college. We have to make sure our population is, people who are born here, all of them have the ability to live up to their full potential.

But if you look at where our growth is, if we're going to complete that, we have to have immigrants here; 75 percent of the growth in the last decade of the population of the state of Ohio -- and we are now moving up, which is a great thing -- 75 percent of that comes from immigrants.

[09:20:02]

If you look at the state, one-fifth of our doctors come from some other country; 12 percent of our STEM workers come from some other country. I applaud the administration. I seriously do. They have done a tremendous job on the southern border. It had to be done. They did a great job. President Trump gets a lot of credit for that.

I think, though, that we now need to look at, what's in the best interest of the United States besides closing that southern border?

TAPPER: Right.

DEWINE: How do immigrants fit in into that? We are a nation of immigrants. Ohio is a state that was built by immigrants.

TAPPER: All right, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, thank you so much, sir. Really appreciate your time today.

DEWINE: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Two potential 2028 contenders are out with books about faith. I'm going to talk to one of them about how faith could shape the next presidential election.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:00]

TAPPER: As Democratic socialists win primary elections coast to coast, President Trump sees an opportunity for the Republican Party. But how many Democratic officials agree with his take?

Joining us now, Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of the state of Georgia. He's the author of a brand-new book "The Crooked Places Made Straight: Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America." Here it is right now.

And I do have a question or two about this. But let me just ask you about the news, because shockwaves jolted your party last week when three of Mayor Mamdani's candidates supported by the Democratic Socialists of America swept New York's primary, defeating two incumbent Democratic members of Congress.

Mamdani said those victories prove that the DSA has a durable movement. Among the positions that these candidates have advocated for are ending all support for Israel, ending prisons, ending police, no borders.

Now, you have worked hard to be a progressive who can represent all of Georgia, all of a purple state. Are you worried at all about the impact that these positions of some DSA members could have on the Democratic Party's ability to win a majority in November?

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Jake, I have to tell you that, if I were a Republican this morning, I would be deeply worried, because they are having an argument about who is the most loyal to Donald Trump.

We are a big tent party focused on the ordinary concerns of everyday Americans. And we have robust and sometimes rambunctious arguments about what to do. But there's no question that grocery prices are unaffordable. Health care is unaffordable. Donald Trump said he was going to lower our prices on day one.

And here we are, two years into his presidency, and every time someone asks him about the price of groceries, the price of gas that he's raised with this illegal war of choice, when asked about housing, which he could have done something about last week, chose not to do so, he and his administration quickly talk about Joe Biden. Well, I think the voters are not interested in hearing about Joe

Biden. They elected Donald Trump. Two years into his presidency, he's done nothing.

And so I think, as young people especially deal with this affordability crisis, as they deal with the fact that the average age for first-time homebuyer right now is age 40, and most Americans don't have $400 for emergency relief, they want to know who's focused on them.

And their response to that differs. We have got all kinds of candidates across the ideological spectrum who are getting elected. And I think the thing they have in common is that they're finding ways to center the concerns of ordinary people.

TAPPER: So I hear what you're saying. There is an interesting dynamic playing out in the Democratic Party, however, when it comes to the DSA and black voters.

On the one hand-, congresswoman-elect, presumably, Chevalier narrowly won black voters in New York, like 48 percent to 46 percent. On the other hand, a lot of these positions of the DSA advocate for things that black voters in general don't support, like no borders, no police, no prisons.

And then I want you to take a look at what happened on election night on Tuesday, according to this viral video reported on by "New York Magazine," among others. Take a listen and we will talk on the other end of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: You're next! You're next! You're next!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's a bar full of largely white DSA activists chanting "You're next" as they watch an interview on the TV in this bar with Hakeem Jeffries, the potential first ever black speaker of the House.

What's your take on that?

WARNOCK: You know, as I said, we have robust and rambunctious arguments about the direction of our party, but the focus is on the concerns of ordinary people.

Look, I don't believe in abolishing the police. You can't have security without police. You don't have a country without borders. But this debate will go on. Black Americans are not a monolith. They will respond as they are hearing candidates center their concerns.

I think part of the problem with politics, quite frankly, in our country is that we have made the politics about the politicians, which candidate is in, who's out, who's up, who's down, what's going to happen to this politician come November. I'm worried about what's going to happen to ordinary people, who can't

afford their lives right now. And there's a way in which both parties have not adequately responded to this deepening American crisis. We have seen the concentration of wealth in our country increasingly at the very, very top, especially since Citizens United and the passing of the one big ugly bill, which I call Robin Hood in reverse, socialism for the rich, the largest transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top.

[09:30:19]

I think young people are seeing that. They are deeply frustrated. And the range -- and there's a wide range of their responses. But we have to center the people. And, come November, the people are going to hold Donald Trump and his henchmen accountable.

We're going to put some guardrails on this president by flipping the House and the Senate.

TAPPER: Let's talk about your book "The Crooked Places Made Straight: Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America."

I'm struck by the fact that two potential 2028 presidential candidates on either side of the aisle have written new books about faith, you and obviously Vice President Vance. His is about his conversion to Catholicism.

You have this passage in your book that struck me where you say -- quote -- "It might seem odd that, as a pastor, I'm not automatically heartened when I hear that Christians are at the negotiating table. That's because I am too a student of history. And I know that, in some of this country's crucial moments, Christians have stood on the wrong side of justice."

In that light, what do you make of the vice president talking about his faith?

WARNOCK: Well, I'm glad he's talking about his faith. I take his Christian confession at his word. I don't question that.

But I think it's my duty as a brother to hold him accountable based on those claims. Even as the vice president talks about his conversion, he's a new Catholic, I was struck by the fact that he's wasted no time telling the pope how to be the pope.

The pope, in the light of this illegal war of choice in Iran, began to talk about peace. And I couldn't but chuckle a bit to hear to hear this new convert say that the pope needs to be careful when he's talking about theology, that I guess he ought to stay in his lane. And so I just worry that sometimes the religion becomes one more tool in the ideological toolbox. My faith is not a weapon. It is a bridge.

I was struck last summer by the fact that right, before they passed the so-called One Big Beautiful Bill, I call it an ugly bill, right before they cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid, calling it waste fraud and abuse, even as they kicked 15 million people off of their health care, right before taking food out of the mouths of children with these draconian cuts on Snap, which disproportionately, by the way, impacted red rural districts.

The speaker of the House and other legislators gathered together in a very ostensible and public way in front of the press, joined hands, and said a long prayer. And then, after they prayed, they cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. They cut SNAP and kicked people off of their health care.

And so I just want to know, what they were they praying about? And that's a discussion and a conversation that I am trying to encourage, even as I have written this book "The Crooked Places Made Straight."

TAPPER: Senator and Reverend Raphael Warnock, Democrat of Georgia, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it, sir.

WARNOCK: Keep the faith.

TAPPER: President Trump is on the outs within his own party. Is the so-called YOLO caucus ready to block his pick for attorney general?

Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:37:56]

TAPPER: President Trump renewed his threat against Iran overnight, warning that Iran could -- quote -- "no longer exist" if they don't stop violating the cease-fire, memorandum of understanding, as the both sides -- as both sides exchanged fire this weekend.

Joining us now to discuss, among other matters, North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis, a Republican Senator.

Thanks for joining us.

So, Iran and the U.S. are trading strikes this weekend after Iran attacked two ships in the Strait of Hormuz, despite this MOU. Iran's now warning ships not to cross the strait without permission or risk facing consequences.

Ultimately, do you think this memorandum of understanding is a good deal? And do you have any idea who controls the Strait of Hormuz right now?

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Well, I think that's up for debate, because we have seen some of the kinetic actions there.

But, at a fundamental level, I just simply don't trust the Iranian leadership, the mullahs, to live up to their commitments. We're already seeing it. I mean, my goodness, Jake, how many cease-fires have we had over the past several months? And this one was supposed to be keyed to a 60-day agreement.

So there's a lot of work to be done. And I just fundamentally do not trust the Iranians. I don't believe that they were any more faithful to the JC -- that they will be any more faithful to this agreement than the JCPOA, unless it is buttoned down tight. And I just don't see that happening in 60 days.

TAPPER: Turning to Attorney General, acting Attorney General Todd Blanche and his attempt to become permanent attorney general, you're a key vote to make that happen.

You met with him earlier this week. I understand there are a couple of sticking points. You will not accept any equivocation on January 6, and you want Blanche to put a formal end to the president's so-called anti-weaponization fund.

To start with, did he tell you unequivocally that the administration will not give money to January 6 protesters who attacked law enforcement? And did he tell you that Joe Biden was the lawful winner of the 2020 election?

TILLIS: Well, the -- I don't ask the gamesman question about who won the election. I certified the vote on the 20th, and I'm not going to use that sort of a gimmick against Todd Blanche.

[09:40:03]

He's a very competent attorney. I agree with what Bill Barr said in his op-ed this week. But there are matters that we need to settle finally. We need to get rid of the 1776 fund. Todd doesn't have any evidence that I have been able to find, nor I guess the press, on anything that would have tripped my Ed Martin January 6 equivocation.

So it really comes down to trying to let's get this 1776 fund out of the narrative. Let's get the audit piece out of the narrative. Let's focus on the Democrat Socialists of America that are taking over the Democratic Party, not these things that we have been told by the administration are rendered useless, they're not going to use it.

Let's figure out a way to end them completely to remove the distraction of a good nominee coming before Judiciary.

TAPPER: I guess the question is, when push came to shove with Attorney General Bill Barr, he refused to go along with Trump's election lies in 2020. And the question is, do you think Todd Blanche would do the same thing, would stand up for the right thing?

"The New York Times" is reporting that acting Director of National Intelligence Bill Pulte, who has no qualifications for that job, as you know, has installed a Republican political operative, Christina Norton, as his chief of staff at the spy agency.

Norton's work in the past focused on election issues for the Republican Party. And there's this broader context that you know about. There are a lot of concerns about what the president and his team might be planning for the elections, whether it's Pulte and Norton or, as we read in "Regime Change," Nicolas Maduro offering to back up Trump's lie about Venezuela altering the election. We have election denier Kurt Olsen given a position in the

administration ordering the seizure of Atlanta voting machines, Tulsi Gabbard seizing voting machines from Puerto Rico. How do you see all this fitting together?

TILLIS: Well, first, I think you know my position on Pulte. I don't think he should be in the administration, let alone in charge of DNI. He is singularly responsible for 702 beginning to go dark because of a lack of confidence of him in that role.

So he needs to get out. We need to get a credible person in the role. And, frankly, I think, ultimately, we should end DNI and go back to the intelligence community, the posture that we had before 9/11. We just have to address the lapses that were addressed through DNI. I think we're past that now after 25 years.

My goodness, we should be able to have interagency integration. We should eliminate the DNI and we should eliminate Pulte from the DNI until that happens.

The -- I am concerned that we're going to continue to cast doubt on elections in November and erode what has been a 250-year tradition of a peaceful transition of power. I have people telling me I need to implement the SAVE Act immediately in North Carolina in a state that has voter I.D.

It was passed when I was speaker. We have enhanced it even since then, and the president's won three times. Why do I, over the next four months, have to try to pursue the impossible task of implementing a bill that simply can't be implemented in that time frame?

Why are we doing more things to undermine our confidence in elections, rather than getting the strong message out that will win for Republicans this year? Talk about the emergence and the rise of the Democrat Socialists of America, accept that the voting laws are going to be fundamentally what they are today, win by them.

Win by the good results that Republicans have produced, and stop undermining the confidence in the elections. This is a bedrock of our 250-year history of success as the democracy that changed the world. Let's not mess with that between now and November.

TAPPER: Bill Barr did the right thing when it came down to it. He stood up for the truth. He stood up for the facts. How confident are you that Todd Blanche would do the same?

TILLIS: I -- at this point, there -- I mean, I'm going to go through the nomination process. I have got a positive predisposition towards Blanche.

He is the one of the key reasons why we were able to work with the DOJ and get to a good place on Warsh. But there's -- if there's even a whiff of a lack of independence, then that could influence my vote. But, right now, I'm confident in what we see with Blanche if we can address these distractions that have to get off the table before his confirmation, particularly the 1776 fund. Let's just put it away. The president, the acting attorney general,

others in the administration said that they have determined it's inoperative, they're not going to move forward with it. Let's make it inoperative.

The Cassidy amendment, incidentally a few weeks ago, would have done that, which, for the life of me, I don't know why Republicans didn't support. But let's try and figure out a way to completely and finally end these distractions so that we can focus on the damage Democrats could do if they take the House, if they make -- if they beat incumbent Republicans in the Senate.

That's what Republicans need to be talking about between now and November.

[09:45:03]

TAPPER: Republican Senator Thom Tillis from the great state of North Carolina, always good to have you on, sir. Thank you so much.

TILLIS: Thank you.

TAPPER: Up next: Should our next president be somebody who has served the nation in combat?

We're going to have a special bipartisan conversation with Governor Wes Moore and Congressman Don Bacon.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

A new Gallup poll shows that roughly two-thirds of the American people believe that elected officials show less courage today than they did 20 years ago. That poll was conducted with an organization called With Honor, which recruits and supports military veterans to run for office who pledge to serve with courage and civility.

Author Rye Barcott founded With Honor. And his new book, "Courage Can Save Us," profiles veterans who follow that pledge.

And joining me now is Rye and two of those veterans, Maryland Governor Wes Moore, who was an Army captain and paratrooper, and Nebraska Republican Congressman Don Bacon, who reached the rank of brigadier general in the Air Force.

Thanks to all of you for being here. And, of course, as always, thank you for your service.

Governor Moore, let me start with you. So, in the book, Rye talks about a moment when you felt like you were

running in place in the private sector while your Army friends were on the battlefield. You decided to give up a higher-paying job, and you decided to deploy with the 82nd Airborne in Afghanistan and on those front lines.

You carried your grandfather's Bible, which was inscribed with the words "Have faith, not fear," and you have a saying, service will save us. It's been 34 years since we had a president who had previously served in combat. Do you think that the country would be run differently, better if it was being run by a combat veteran?

GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Well, I think that combat veterans understand the weight and the gravity of the decision that the commander in chief needs to make, that every time that you will order someone into combat, you understand what it means for them.

You understand what it means for their family and to ask. You understand the challenges that they are going to see that they maybe even at that time might not even be anticipating. And you also understand the gravity of what it means to support them when they come back home.

I mean, that's the thing that I loved about this book and I loved about what Rye pulled together was getting these veterans, Democrats and Republicans, five of each, and saying that, while all of our experiences might have been different, while the combat zones that we fought in might have -- whether it's Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam, they might have been different places, that feeling and that weight remain consistent.

That commitment to this country and the fact that you love this country enough that you're willing to give your life for it remains consistent. And, frankly, I think the work that we're seeing, either from the congressman or everyone else that Rye highlighted, knowing that we have got a solemn obligation to be able to care for those who, when they come back home, that's a pledge that we made to them, and it's a pledge that we can't break.

TAPPER: Congressman Bacon, we're seeing this administration take what I think is fair to call a more political approach to military advancement.

And the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, who has been -- who has served in combat, he forced out the top U.S. Army commander in Europe this week, General Christopher Donahue, a rising star, one of the most respected members of the military. He previously did the same to General Randy George.

And we have seen a lot of high-ranking officials who happen to be black and happen to be women dismissed or forced out over the past year. And we have also heard from "The New York Times" that Secretary Hegseth blocked the promotions of at least 40 senior officers.

What do you make of all that? And what does this do to morale within the rank and file and among flag officers? REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Well, it's wrong, to be abrupt or to the

point.

He -- on the lining out promotions to brigadier general, he should recommend to the president if he wants to do that, but he really doesn't have the authority just to line them out himself. This is really a service decision to promote people to brigadier general or to one-star admiral.

I also would say he's fired about 20 admirals and generals. I have known -- so, I worked with some of them personally when I was a one- star. They're -- like, C.Q. Brown was a one-star with me. Dave Allvin, the chief of staff of the Air Force, we were -- we went to school twice together and were one-stars together.

These are great people. We had the commander of Cyber Command fired for no reason, probably irreplaceable. Nobody could do the job the way he did it. So I think it's caused damage to the Pentagon, to the our overall military. I think it has politicized the process unnecessarily.

Well, everybody knows, when you're the new secretary, you're the boss. He doesn't have to fire. And I could see one or two if people aren't working out, but the way he's done it, it's been wholesale. And I think it's hurt the military.

And what -- where I come from, it should be not political at all. It's about doing your job. It's about serving country. I couldn't have told you who was a Republican or Democrat in my unit, maybe with one or two of my closest friends as an exception.

But, for the most part, we never -- you didn't know what somebody's political leanings were, and you got a job done, you worked together. And I think he's undermined that with what he's done.

TAPPER: And, Rye, you want the veterans with whom you -- with whom you work to bring integrity and courage into elected office.

You're not just trying to elect veterans. You're trying to elect the veterans who make a pledge to work across the aisle and to serve with civility. And you want to ask them to make a pledge to meet with a member of the other party once a month. It's not just lip service. You want a commitment to do that.

[09:55:06]

How do you do that when it seems like the center in this country has shrunk, and it's tougher for people who want to work across the aisle to even get elected?

RYE BARCOTT, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, WITH HONOR: It is no doubt tougher.

I mean, I started the organization nine years ago with the late David Gergen and a Marine that I served with, Peter Dixon. Wes was actually on the advisory board prior to that to him running. And the polarization in this place has obviously gotten worse. But what I have tried to chart forward with this book is say, hey,

listen, there are still individuals that are rising to the challenge. A lot of them have served, have worn the uniform of the nation, and are putting the service and their country first and above that of what their self-interest is.

And that's the core of the definition of courage. It's different from bravery. Bravery can be instinctive. It can be self-serving. It's often what we're taught in the military to be able to instinctively react when you're under harm's way and getting shot at.

But courage is the conscious choice to make a decision that, when you face risk, whether that's physical or moral risk, for the common good. The common good is service. And that's why I named the book "Courage Can Save Us" and was inspired by Wes' campaign slogan on service will save us, because courage is service.

Less than 2 percent of Americans right now serve. We're -- all of us are trying to do something about that. Don chairs the National Service Caucus in Congress. Wes is -- one of his first bills was to actually establish a year in service for Marylanders.

I mean, this is -- we're walking the walk. We need more service. That's why I believe this book is not just for the country, to save the country in a very divided time, but also for Americans who are feeling a loss of a sense of purpose. And service can give that to you.

TAPPER: Rye, Congressman, Governor, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

The book, again, is "Courage Can Save Us."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And you can see more from that interview on CNN.com or on my X or Twitter account.

Lastly, today marks four months to the day since the beginning of the Trump administration's war on Iran, which is also the day the Tomahawk missiles hit that elementary school in Minab, Iran, killing more than 150 civilians, killing more than 110 children.

I'm going to have more reporting on that tragic incident, which the Trump administration has not been transparent or accountable about at all, on "THE LEAD" tomorrow.

Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts next.