Return to Transcripts main page

State of the Union

Interview With Rep. Buddy Carter (R-GA); Interview With Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-PA); Interview With U.S. Interior Secretary Doug Burgum. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 05, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:35]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Birthday wishes. President Trump toasts the America he believes in.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to keep America great. You won't have cheating on the election.

BASH: On America's 250th, is the country changing for good? Interior Secretary Doug Burgum joins me next.

Plus: life and liberty. We tour the birthplace of American democracy with a man who could try to lead it in 2028.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): You've got a president who is focused on trying to whitewash our history.

BASH: Where does he think his own party is headed? Pennsylvania Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro is ahead.

And American dreaming.

GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Yet, today, the very premise of patriotism is under attack.

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: America is exceptional because, here, nothing is fixed into place.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Reject the view of your nation that sees only its sins.

BASH: Is this the post-Trump future? My political panel breaks it down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is 250 years young.

Overnight, we saw a spectacular celebration of the American experiment with stirring displays of patriotism from coast to coast, and Americans undeterred by really bad weather.

Just a few short hours ago, President Trump marked the anniversary in his own way with a speech that celebrated America's history, including flags from 1776 and one that rested on Abraham Lincoln's coffin, but also, in a break with past presidential July 4 speeches, he veered into the partisan as well.

Here with me now is the man behind this week's celebrations, Interior Secretary Doug Burgum.

Thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

First, I was there last night. And those fireworks were absolutely -- there aren't even words for how amazing they were. I know the plan was 850,000 fireworks. The goal was to break the world record. Did it?

DOUG BURGUM, U.S. INTERIOR SECRETARY: I'm confident we did. Anybody that saw it knows there's been nothing like that in the history of the U.S. It was really spectacular.

BASH: OK, turning to something much more serious that happened yesterday, Secretary Burgum, several hundred masked men belonging to the white nationalist group the Patriot Front marched with Confederate Flags.

And they did it through neighborhoods in the U.S. Capitol, at least near the Capitol, and they chanted "Reclaim America." There's a widely circulated photograph, I'm sure you have seen it, taken by Reuters of an African-American woman on a subway surrounded by members of this group.

Are you concerned about this?

BURGUM: Well, I think we -- obviously, when we're celebrating America, we have had an incredible celebration, and we got -- this is the kickoff of a celebration year.

But we know from our very founding that this was something that divided our nation; 85 years after those brave patriots signed the Declaration of Independence, we fought in the bloodiest war America's ever fought, the Civil War, and it's -- our nation survived thanks to the courage and leadership of Abraham Lincoln and led us on a way.

As we continue to move forward as a country, we can be an exceptional nation because our ideals are exceptional, that all men are created equal.

BASH: Do you condemn this group and what they were doing and, more -- most importantly, what they stand for?

BURGUM: Well, I think that the -- certainly, what they stand for is nothing that I could possibly agree with. But one of the foundational principles of the United States which makes democracy messy is free speech. And there are plenty of things that I see that I might personally find offensive, irreprehensible. But in America, free speech is allowed.

And this is by the whole spectrum of things. I mean, we're a country where someone can run and be elected saying that they're a communist, and -- but yet this is what our nation has stood against and fought for, because we're about -- we're about life and liberty.

We're not -- we're not about death and tyranny, which we know communism has brought across the country, so -- and across history. So there are plenty of things in history, and those things can pop up.

BASH: Yes.

BURGUM: But the good news is, these small things I think are the rare example. What we saw last night, what we have seen this week is people unifying around our -- around our country, unifying around the flag.

BASH: I want to move on. But do you, as interior secretary, will you recommend to the president that he condemn the -- this group and what they were trying to message, what they did try to message here in Washington?

[09:05:08]

BURGUM: Well, there have been -- Dana, part of my response to that is that there are protests on the Mall that people say things that I think are irreprehensible about President Trump, and yet they're allowed to go on because of free speech in our country.

And so this is a -- something -- but you have seen President Trump. I was with him in North Dakota. I was with him at Mount Rushmore. I was with him last night.

BASH: This is white nationalism. It's, as you said, a part of America's history that still has pockets.

But the fact that they were here in Washington on such an important day -- I do want to move on.

BURGUM: But I do think, again, I mean, there are people that are saying "Death to Israel" and "Death to America." I mean, this is part of free speech in America. They can say it, we can object to it.

BASH: OK.

BURGUM: But it is something that comes with free speech in America.

BASH: I want to ask you about the Reflecting Pool, because we spoke about a month ago. And the $16 million no-bid contract to renovate the Reflecting Pool was something you called fantastic, and you certainly defended the expediting contract in order to try to get it fixed in time for July 4.

Now, of course, chunks of paint are peeling off the floor. The algae has returned. What went wrong?

BURGUM: Well, the algae is all gone. I mean, that was a momentary thing. As they -- as it was being refilled, there was algae in the pipes. But the new technology, the nano-bubblers that have been installed, if you go down there today and look at it, it is completely clean and clear.

And so for the first time there's actual an solution that involves making sure that we have got an algae-free pond. It keeps being reported that this was paint. It was not paint. This was an industrial liner that was put into the pool for the very first time, multiple layers fixing, 2.5 miles of expansion.

BASH: But it peeled off. Why did that happen? Do you know?

BURGUM: It didn't peel off. There was there was vandalism. There was box cutters. There have been seven arrests. There was people literally trying to destroy part of a monument, the Reflecting Pool. It's not just a pool on the Mall.

It is part of the Lincoln Memorial. And if anybody says that they're going to go and vandalize that, it's no different than if someone was throwing paint...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: And you're 100 percent sure that what happened with the liner was vandalism? You can prove it?

BURGUM: Oh, yes absolutely, Dana. And we drain it, and we have got all the photographs, we can see. I mean, there's no possible way...

BASH: There are photographs of a person or people cutting a 300- or 350-foot gash in the bottom of the Reflecting Pool?

BURGUM: Dana, I'm not sure why you and others in the media think that you want to keep trying to question whether or not -- think, this is an industrial liner.

Every farmer and rancher in America that's had their pickup liner lined by this sprayed-on liner knows that you literally -- literally, it would never just like peel off or fall off. This is, like, a strong material.

BASH: Yes.

BURGUM: And it's the size of eight football fields. And the only way you can end up with actual slices in one spot and not the other is that someone physically cut it.

And so the -- but the pool itself, it's not leaking. It was leaking 45,000 gallons a day. It's finally been fixed by President Trump. And the American flag blue is working perfectly. And, again, it's beyond me why -- I mean, the real scandal is about the fact that the state of our capital was in such total disrepair that some people...

BASH: Yes.

BURGUM: No one was reporting about the pro-Hamas graffiti on the...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Mr. Secretary, you and I talked about this last month.

BURGUM: And we're still talking about it.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Well, because it's -- it was July 4, and the Reflecting Pool was closed.

BURGUM: It was closed because it's surrounded by fireworks. It's closed every year on the Fourth of July.

BASH: But it was closed prior to that in order to fix the Reflecting Pool.

But I do want...

BURGUM: No, it was closed because the fire -- the largest fireworks display in the country was set up, and it lines either side of the Reflecting Pool. You can't have people around fireworks when they're being set up.

BASH: I just want to ask you...

BURGUM: Now that the fireworks will come down, the fence will come down. The fence was there because of the fireworks.

BASH: Copy that.

I just want to ask you about one other potential issue here. In May, the president's armored motorcade of SUVs, which would -- can weigh up to 20,000 pounds, drove across that new coating of the Reflecting Pool's floor. Could that have damaged it?

BURGUM: No. I was with him when we came that night. He didn't take the beast.

We were driving in a Cadillac Escalade. It is one of the presidential fleet of cars, but substantially lighter than what you're talking about. And at the time that we were there, they were still putting down -- the whole base level of this industrial rubber layer was not yet completed, and so there was no damage that night whatsoever.

That was one of the questions we asked before we even brought the presidential motorcade there, but not a chance.

BASH: How much is it going to cost to fix? And are you going to use the same company that you did in the no-bid contract, or will you open it up to new bids?

[09:10:01] BURGUM: We will use the same company because they did a fantastic job.

I mean, if -- even with this damage of the gash that we're talking about, you're talking about, again, this is -- the size of eight football fields. It is eight acres, and we're talking about like .001 percent.

Thankfully, the vandalism was small. It was -- it was bad. I mean, it could cost tens of thousands of dollars to repair, so then it could fall into a felony -- felony thing, just like damaging any other government property could.

But it is a -- this is -- the job that was done to fix the Reflecting Pool was done extremely well, and hopefully we can move on to this and just talk about how we continue to do things like take care of the -- this is a deferred maintenance problem. We have deferred maintenance problems across our parks.

President Trump is ready to sign the Great American Outdoors Act, which would bring the dollars to help fix all of our parks, not just ones like the National Mall, which is free, but help bring that across the country.

BASH: Can I just ask you about the vandalism? There is an Olympian, David Hearn, who was indicted for vandalism. The maximum sentence is 10 years in prison. He says he didn't do anything other than reach into the Reflecting Pool and look at and pull out and look at a piece of the liner that had already been cut.

Do you really think he should face a 10-year prison sentence for doing this? This is a somebody who competed for America and did extremely well there and is saying he didn't do anything wrong.

BURGUM: You can be a former governor, you can be a former this, you can be a former that, but just because you were a former something doesn't exclude you from the law today.

BASH: Yes, that's fair. But he says he didn't do anything to actually hurt it other than pick it up because it was already peeling.

BURGUM: Well, he can say what he wants to say. I wasn't there. I was not an eyewitness. I mean, the courts will decide.

But I think the law stands. That is a law that exists, and it should be -- again, if people are damaging federal government property, if people are defaming our monuments, they should face the consequences of that. So the courts will decide.

BASH: Secretary Burgum, happy 250. Thank you so much for everything, and appreciate you coming in after very little sleep.

BURGUM: Well, and I appreciate it. And I would love to come on some time and actually talk about the great things going on in America, as opposed to this myopic focus on a single one.

We restored 48 monuments...

BASH: Yes.

BURGUM: ... 22 fountains, eliminated 1,000 graffiti sites. The Capitol's looking better than ever, and I'm not -- I can't understand why people want to keep talking about the beautiful, beautiful Reflecting Pool.

BASH: I take your point. I take your point. And I think the answer is because the president sets the tone, and he talks about it nonstop because he was so proud of it, which is why we're following up on what you did to try to fix it.

BURGUM: And he should be proud of it because no one has fixed up our capital more than President Trump has during the time he's been here. He's shown the pride that he has in America. He's shown that as a country we can stand and think about our future.

This is the kickoff of our 250th year. President Trump, in those three speeches that I saw him give the last few days, he was -- you know, incredible respect for the past, gratitude for the present and all the people that are great, including our military, our law enforcement.

And then he gave a -- in all three speeches in the last four days inspiration for the future. That's something that we should focus on, because the vast majority of Americans care deeply about this country, they care about their communities, they care about their families.

And that is absolutely something we celebrate. We are the freest, strongest country in the world. We should be celebrating that, versus folks focusing myopically on the few bad actors that may want to spoil the party.

BASH: Yes. I agree this is a wonderful country, and part of the country is to ask questions of people like you in power.

So thank you for coming on and participating in that.

BURGUM: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Thank you.

This weekend, you heard two very different visions for America. Who's making the most compelling case? My panel is coming up.

And I went to Philadelphia to talk to a possible 2028 presidential contender, what he thinks America's founders would say about America in 2026.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:18]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Two hundred and fifty years ago in Philadelphia, America's great experiment began. I went to visit the birthplace of American democracy. My tour guide was Pennsylvania's Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro, who thinks American democracy is at a perilous point, and he may have ambitions of his own to try to fix it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHAPIRO: Welcome to the Pennsylvania Statehouse.

BASH: It's great to be here.

So this is where they sign the Declaration of Independence.

SHAPIRO: 1776.

BASH: Yes.

SHAPIRO: They signed the Declaration of Independence here. They come back a decade later, and they work on the Constitution and they sign the Constitution.

BASH: All of the laws within the federal government and the balance, the fact that was born in this room...

SHAPIRO: Right here. It's extraordinary. Right here in this relatively small room in the city of Philadelphia, all of those different interests came together and found their way through it to declare our independence from a king and then to set up the guardrails.

And one of my favorite stories in this room is Franklin, who was known to sit on an aisle, we believe in this chair here...

BASH: In that chair.

SHAPIRO: We believe he was fixated on George Washington, who was sitting up in that chair. And what is on the top edge of that chair, you can see half of a sun. He was fixated the whole time on trying to determine whether or not the sun was rising or the sun was setting.

And at the end of the Constitutional Convention, he rose to his feet and announced to the founders of our nation that he believed it was a rising sun and that bright days were ahead. I think -- that gives me chills every time I see that chair to know that Franklin left this room with all of the challenges.

[09:20:07]

Even after speaking about how the Constitution was imperfect, he still thought it was a rising sun. He still had optimism in this new nation. It's an optimism I share today.

BASH: You do?

SHAPIRO: I do. I think that optimism is something that's always defined America.

Even in this temporary moment where it feels dark and heavy, I think the sun is still rising.

BASH: Things are hard now...

SHAPIRO: Yes.

BASH: ... but not nearly as hard as creating an entire democratic government from whole cloth, which is what happened here.

SHAPIRO: Right. Yes, and things are hard now, I think, because of the excesses and the corruption and the chaos of the executive, something that our founders in this room debated, deliberated over.

They were worried about creating a government where a king could form again, where one individual would amass so much power that you would have tyranny all over again. I fear that we are finding our way back to that.

I think, unfortunately, you have some profoundly and pathetically weak individuals in Congress who could learn a few lessons from the strong foundation that the founders set for us here in this room.

BASH: You want to take me to see the Liberty Bell?

SHAPIRO: Let's go see the Liberty Bell.

BASH: OK.

So there's a quote, "Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." How do you interpret that in 2026?

SHAPIRO: I mean, I think, as a nation, over the last 2.5 centuries, we have been working to expand liberty, and we have been working to expand the promise of freedom.

Only more recently do we have an executive who, again, I think has accumulated way more power than our founders would have hoped or would have liked who's trying to restrict liberty, who's trying to put a litmus test on who gets more liberty than others.

I think it's really dangerous and destructive, the language the president, by the way, even more so the vice president, uses that tries to separate out certain Americans and determine which one gets liberty, which one gets freedom, and which one does not.

BASH: What do you mean about the vice president? What words or what arguments do you think he's making that you said even more so than the president concern you?

SHAPIRO: I think, in many ways, his speeches overseas, many of the comments he's made here at home are designed to divide and separate Americans, trying to define what is an American outside the bounds of what the law indicates or what the Constitution indicates.

BASH: Are you talking about religion? What are you referring to?

SHAPIRO: I think it's religion. I think it's race. I think it's origin.

I think we have a president and vice president who are trying not to lift up all Americans, but to divide Americans and to try and put us in different buckets, different tiers, and try and say who's more American than someone else.

And that, in and of itself, is un-American.

So from the Liberty Bell to La Colombe, two great Philadelphia institutions.

BASH: It's a Philly day with a Philly boy.

SHAPIRO: There we go.

BASH: There was a NBC poll that just came out that found fewer and fewer Americans say they're proud of this country.

Kamala Harris voters, only 12 percent say they were extremely proud. What do you make of that?

SHAPIRO: Well, I'm a proud, patriotic American. I think we live in the greatest country on the face of the Earth, and we have a lot of work to do to make sure that the promise of liberty that you and I talked about across the street is something that everyone can enjoy.

We have got to fix our health care system. Our economy has too many challenges in it. So, while I am proud to be a patriotic American, while I'm proud to live in this country, I'm also mindful that we have work to do. And I don't think that's mutually exclusive.

I think one of the things that the founders made clear is that we were going to be a nation that was a work in progress, and we have a lot of work to do.

BASH: A recent CNN poll, again, shows just 28 percent of Americans hold a favorable view of your party. Does that surprise you?

SHAPIRO: I think what needs to happen is Democrats need to deliver the way we do here in Pennsylvania, deliver on things that make people's lives better.

And I think what we have got to focus on, not just as a party, but in politics in general, are real deliverables for people,on getting stuff done for people and shying away from this performative politics that just makes noise, but doesn't make anybody's life better.

BASH: And what specifically or who specifically are you referring to in performative politics in your party?

SHAPIRO: I think the Congress of the United States...

BASH: Democrats too?

SHAPIRO: ... has largely been about performative politics. And, yes, I think you have seen people largely on both extremes that

engage in performative politics that might get some likes on Twitter, might, and I mean this respectfully, get your attention in the media, but doesn't actually make someone's life better.

[09:25:08]

BASH: But I do want to ask about one candidate in particular who almost certainly will be in the United States Congress, Darializa Avila Chevalier.

She is a -- was a Ph.D. candidate at Columbia, an organizer. She called for the abolition of prisons, open borders, end of deportations, even people convicted of violent crimes. She attended a pro-Palestinian rally on October 8, 2023, a rally that reportedly featured some real antisemitic rhetoric justifying the attack.

How do you feel as a Democrat about someone with those views being in the United States Congress?

SHAPIRO: Well, look, her district voted for her, but I have profound differences from that particular candidate, based on the citations that you read there.

And she's not someone who seemingly I would agree with on many things or that we share similar values. She ran on the Democratic ticket, I guess, as a socialist. Her voters in that district determined that she was the one they wanted representing her.

BASH: Well, what does that tell you about your party?

SHAPIRO: I think what our party has to go through that will be very healthy and something we have not really done since the 1992 election cycle is to have a battle over what we believe in, to have a battle over the ideas that we are going to hold on to and campaign on and then deliver on as a way to make people's lives better.

And I expect our party over the course of this next year or so to go through a battle about what we believe in, and then come out unified in a way that we can take the fight to the other side and really deliver for the American people.

BASH: I have heard you talk about how one of the ways that you connect with people in Pennsylvania who maybe don't agree with you on a lot of things is through faith and that you talk about your faith, even though it's different from a lot of your constituents, and that is kind of an entry point.

And I'm wondering, right now, seeing what we are seeing, whether or not you think, as a Jew, you could get beyond Pennsylvania if you wanted to in the Democratic primary system.

SHAPIRO: Well, look, I'm not going to focus on sort of what happens in 2028. But what I can tell you is, when I ran for governor in 2022, and now as I'm running for reelection as Pennsylvania governor, I have been very open about how faith and family guide me in this life of service.

BASH: But do you think that that will hurt either you or another person who might run who's Jewish in your party, given the climate right now?

SHAPIRO: Look, first, I think Pennsylvania is the ultimate swing state, and America can learn a lot from what happens here in Pennsylvania politically and otherwise.

What I have found in my years of service in government is that the public wants you to be who you are, be authentic. Let them know what motivates you to serve and why you do this work. My faith teaches me that no one's required to complete the task, but neither are we free to refrain from it, very similar to what Ben Franklin preached about citizen participation in our commonwealth, in our country, in perfecting our union.

I think that that is uniquely American, this idea that we all have a responsibility to get off the sidelines, get in the game, and do our part. That's what my faith teaches me. That's how my family raised me. That is who I am, and I'm not going to apologize for it.

BASH: So this was the president's house, where George Washington lived.

SHAPIRO: Right. That's right.

BASH: Yes.

SHAPIRO: You're here at a time of real controversy, right? You will notice that there's kind of these brackets here, right?

BASH: Yes.

SHAPIRO: And you sort of wonder, what -- like what's going on. Why would they leave this here? It's because the Trump administration came in and ordered that some of the images here that were depicted slavery be torn down.

We went to court, and we won. And we're in the process of litigating getting these put back up.

BASH: And this isn't just about slavery. It's specifically about the slaves that George Washington had when he was here.

Why do you think the Trump administration wanted this taken down in advance of 250 or just in general?

SHAPIRO: They're trying to rewrite it in a way that they think is suitable to their own narrative.

There's not one individual narrative that a president gets about our history. There is our history. And any president should want to make sure that that full history is shared, that the American people are able to draw their own conclusions from it.

[09:30:01]

The American people are smart. They're able to draw their conclusions. And I believe that, when you give them access to that full history, that that's empowering, especially at this moment, at 250 years, where we take stock in this great American experiment.

We understand where we came from, and we're going to have a better path forward.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: An appeals court ruled late last week that the Trump administration could continue removing signs at national parks for now.

We got a taste this weekend of what the next presidential campaign could look like. What we learned when my panel joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Warriors did not fight communism on battlefields across the world, only to have that menace rear its ugly head right back here in America.

We would like to stop a threat like that immediately and before it begins. It's like a cancer. You got to cut it out, and you got to cut it out fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:35:08]

BASH: We're hearing a lot of that as we get closer to the midterms. Even though the president is talking about Democratic socialists, he's saying communists, we I think all know what he really meant there.

My panel is back now.

First of all, happy Fourth.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Happy Fourth.

REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): Happy Fourth.

BASH: You got the red memo and white. There's some blue, and the red, white and blue tie.

(CROSSTALK)

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Put us together, we're a flag.

BASH: There you go. There you go. It's perfect for America. Congressman, I want to start with you. What did you make of the

president's message last night? Certainly, there were a lot of fantastic sort of symbols, quite literally, of America, flags through the generations and through the centuries, two centuries and a half, people who fought for America.

But there was some partisanship that we have not heard in recent big commemorations from presidents.

CARTER: Well, first of all, I thought it was one of the president's greatest speeches that I have ever heard him deliver. I thought it was a wonderful speech.

When he -- he noted America exception exceptionalism, and that is extremely important, and that's something we need to remember, that we are exceptional, and it's the people that make the difference. It's not just words on a piece of paper that make this such a great country. It is the people of this country that make it such a great country.

It is the soul of our nation. And this is something that president, I think, last night -- and I was especially glad to see him honor so many veterans, because we owe our veterans so much. I make a lot of speeches.

Every speech I make, I start by honoring our veterans and recognizing our veterans, and that's what we should do. And I was very proud that he did that last night.

BASH: Yes, I mean, especially to see three World War II veterans who really...

CARTER: A hundred and seven years ago.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Right, we really do owe the freedom in America to.

The message, not just last night, but also at the Teddy Roosevelt -- at Mount Rushmore, when they were opening the Teddy Roosevelt Library, he's talking about communism, which is I don't think any -- it's pretty clear, pretty transparent that he's really talking about Democratic socialism and the wins that we have seen in your party, the Democratic Party, in New York and Colorado recently.

SIMMONS: Yes, for the record, there are no communists running in the Democratic Party and getting elected that we know of.

But we do have the Democratic Socialists who are running. Bill Clinton gave a very compelling argument about stringing all of this together. And what you see from Donald Trump is trying to other the Democrats and turn them into a party that's unacceptable.

So either you are with Donald Trump and you're a patriot, or you're not, and you have to be contained. And that is the danger of the Trump rhetoric, is that he is turning Democrats into something that the Democrats aren't.

Listen, most of us believe in capitalism. Most Democrats believe that there ought to be more money for entrepreneurs. You want to talk about a policy question? The policy question is, why is it that there are -- if you add it up all the money that black entrepreneurs were able to raise in venture capital this year, it's less money than Donald Trump got from crypto alone in the last year.

So, if we want to fix something, we can fix the wealth gap that exists between these people who are trying to live the American dream and the president of the United States, who is just taking advantage of America.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, maybe they're not communists yet, but I think Engels and Marx would probably be very proud of the Democratic Party today.

I mean, these notions of dictating who gets to have wealth and how much of said wealth, the idea that perhaps government should have more control over corporations, that contextually -- this is just philosophical. This is philosophy here.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: Shermichael, this is the president took financial interest in American corporations.

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: So it is a point that Democrats are going to have to wrestle with. It's not just New York. It's Washington, D.C. It is Colorado and more states.

And I think, when you look at the numbers, younger Democrats believe that this type of ideology is OK.

SIMMONS: Well, the president does too. He's the one who has taken financial stake in American corporations by the government.

HINOJOSA: Well, and I think that the reason -- you see Americans right now really frustrated that there is this wealth gap, and there is -- the rich are getting even richer, and everyone else is paying higher costs at the grocery store.

And I think this is where this frustration is. Whatever type of title you want to put on it, that's something else. The reality is, is, over the last few days, these have been grievance rallies. Yes, I wish the president of the United States would have stuck to honoring our veterans, the Artemis crew, that we should all be very grateful that they returned safely, all of those things.

But, instead, what he did is, he try he has to find an enemy in all of these speeches. He can't just celebrate America without talking about some sort of enemy. And that is just very different than what we have seen in previous presidencies. BASH: Because we were talking about the far left, I do want to talk

about what I was discussing with Secretary Burgum, which is a march that happened yesterday morning on the Fourth of July in D.C., white nationalists in and around the Capitol.

[09:40:14]

And whether or not it was big or small, there was definitely a moment that was captured that has gone viral, which we're putting on the screen now of the people who came to march surrounding a young African-American woman.

And the question -- I will start with you since you're an elected Republican sitting here. When you see that march, what do you say?

CARTER: What I say is that that is not the soul of America.

Look, we are all created equally. That is what our whole emphasis is based on here in this country. And I would just -- I would just not ignore it, but I don't pay that much credence to it, because that does not represent the soul of America.

We in America believe in inequality, and that is simply not reflective, certainly not of the Republican Party. I can assure you of that.

SIMMONS: You know, I watch this and I think about all the sort of the struggle of America. America has had great triumphs, but it's also had trials.

I had to have a conversation with my kids the other day about the Fourth of July, because our family weren't free on the Fourth of July. Our family -- our, literally, ancestors were enslaved on the Fourth of July. And so while America has had amazing things that's happened, we also have these moments where we have this other darker part of our soul that exists inside of it.

But our kids are strong enough. My kids got -- they got it immediately. Our kids are strong enough to understand this. They're big enough. They can do it. And if we want our kids to be stronger and to be able to take care of what's coming that we can't even imagine the world they're going to inherit, we have got to give them all the facts so that they're able to compete.

And, right now, the president's approach is to ignore the tough parts about America. And that's going to make our kids not able to deal with the hard parts in their own lives.

SINGLETON: And I think that's a part of the exceptionalism, though, I would say, Jamal, right? You think about the history of our country, where our ancestors began and where we are today.

Now, I agree with you. There's certainly still trials that we must overcome. But, man, you think about the past couple hundred years, where we couldn't read, couldn't do basic math. We have had a black president. We see black entrepreneurs, inventors, creators. We're dominating in so many different sectors. I'd like to see us do a

bit more in the science and business realm, but we're slowly getting there. And so, to me, that speaks to the essence of who we are. We're imperfect, we're flawed, and yet the system enables us to continue to improve.

SIMMONS: Why won't the president -- why won't the president make that case, though? That's what I want to know.

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: Would you vote for me then if I ran for president?

(LAUGHTER)

SIMMONS: I might vote for you.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: What I will also tell you is that Republicans aren't necessarily coming out and condemning this.

The reason why we have white supremacists marching on the streets of Washington, D.C., is because he pardoned everyone who stormed the Capitol on January 6. He has emboldened the white supremacists. So where is the Republican Party, including the president, in speaking out when it comes to these white supremacists on our streets?

CARTER: You know, the irony here, I mean, we look at this panel here, and who is the grandson of a sharecropper? Who is the son of a shift worker in a paper mill?

Who is the first one in his extended family to go to college and to graduate? And now he's walking in the halls of Congress. You want to talk about the American dream? I have lived the American dream.

BASH: OK, we're going to have to leave it there. That's a very nice, uplifting note.

Thank you all. Happy Fourth.

Can the Declaration of Independence last another 250 years? I talk to a historian at the National Archives next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:08]

BASH: On July 4, 1776, the United States declared its independence. But for the physical document, that was only the first step in a precarious journey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: This document that we all know of that we all learn about and read about was not the original document, meaning...

TREVOR PLANTE, DIRECTOR AND ARCHIVIST, THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION: No. Everyone envisions that this was -- it was written in signed on July 4.

BASH: Yes, correct.

PLANTE: And that's not the case at all. You have the back of the $2 bill makes it look like they're all in one room and they're about to sign the Declaration of Independence.

BASH: Right.

PLANTE: But, yes, that did not happen on July 4.

What happened on July 4 is that they voted to approve the final wording of the Declaration of Independence.

BASH: So when was this actually signed?

PLANTE: So they started signing on August 2.

BASH: The American government has gone to such great lengths to preserve this document, especially in times of war.

PLANTE: Correct.

So, during the War of 1812, kind of the British were coming towards D.C. The alarm bells went off, and then we owe kind of the saving of this to a State Department staff member, Stephen Pleasonton, that took it. It went up the Potomac. It spent the night in an abandoned mill.

It would then spent the next few weeks at a private residence in Leesburg, Virginia.

BASH: It turns out that the British came to Washington.

PLANTE: Right.

BASH: There was a lot of damage done.

PLANTE: Yes. And that's the famous -- where they did burn several public buildings, including parts of the White House.

BASH: Including the White House, yes.

PLANTE: Exactly. Exactly.

BASH: So...

PLANTE: So, it definitely saved it during that period.

The other period when it was saved, a few weeks after the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941...

FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A date which will live in infamy.

PLANTE: ... it's moved to Fort Knox. So it's actually in Fort Knox from the end of December 1941 to about September 1944.

BASH (voice-over): Once the declaration was ratified, the founders needed to find a way to get it in the hands of the public and the king.

[09:50:00]

(on camera): The Broadsides.

PLANTE: Dunlap Broadsides, this is one of my favorite documents in the National Archives.

BASH: How come?

PLANTE: This is how people found out about the Declaration of Independence. Historians estimate that there was about 200 copies that were made. There's only 26 known in existence today. We have one of them.

BASH: This is likely the first Declaration of Independence that the king actually saw.

PLANTE: This is the first Declaration of Independence that most people saw. But it also doesn't have -- they haven't signed it yet.

BASH: Yes.

PLANTE: Because it hasn't been ordered -- resolved to be on parchment. So this only has two names on it. It has John Hancock as president of the Congress, and then it's being attested by Charles Thomson, who's the secretary.

BASH: I didn't realize that initially people didn't know who was involved in this. They didn't know who signed the Declaration.

(CROSSTALK)

PLANTE: Right, because these are the only two names -- these are the only two names that go out.

BASH: But that was intentional because of concern about retribution.

PLANTE: Their safety, their personal safety, right.

BASH (voice-over): As for any threats against this priceless piece of history...

NICOLAS CAGE, ACTOR: I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Ben?

BASH: ... it's kept secure enough to last another 250 years and beyond.

(on camera): So this is bulletproof.

PLANTE: It is.

BASH: It's...

PLANTE: Fireproof.

BASH: Fireproof.

PLANTE: It goes away at night into vaults. I won't say, like, which direction or what happens to it for security reasons, but it's very well protected when it's not on display to the American public.

BASH: It is?

PLANTE: Yes.

BASH: Because, before, the Declaration would -- and this, the Constitution, would go down into the vault.

PLANTE: They would go down, right?

BASH: Not anymore?

PLANTE: No.

BASH: But you're a vault? You won't tell us?

PLANTE: That's all I can say.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Up next: the highlights from a very special weekend for America oversees, how other countries paid tribute to America 250.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:22]

BASH: Celebrating America overseas. Here's a look at how other countries paid tribute to the country that led the way on modern democracy.

Thank you for joining us this Sunday morning.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.