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State of the Union

Interview With Michigan Senatorial Candidate Mike Rogers; Interview With Maine Senatorial Candidate Troy Jackson; Interview With U.S. Energy Secretary Chris Wright. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 18, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:26]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): The great stakes. With two weeks to go, a close Senate race heats up.

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: A guy who wants to be a sock puppet for the Trump administration.

MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: That's a con man.

BASH: Could Democrats lose their Michigan Senate seat? Michigan Senate Republican candidate Mike Rogers joins me ahead.

And the main event. A former logger tries to knock out a 30-year incumbent.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): This is obviously one of Troy's supporters.

TROY JACKSON (D), MAINE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, shut up.

BASH: What's Democrat Troy Jackson's closing argument? I sit down with the Maine Senate candidate.

Plus: bad blood. President Trump eases more sanctions on Russia as the rift between Washington and Kiev widens.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want that war ended.

BASH: What's the endgame? Energy Secretary Chris Wright joins me next

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is wondering what else could happen over the next two weeks.

With 16 days to go, Democrats are trying to press their advantage into deep red territory, while they wage fierce Senate fights in two purple states, crucial elections that we're going to dive into this hour.

But, first, we start with President Trump, who keeps throwing wrenches into the midterms. This weekend, it was over Russia and Ukraine, as Trump tries to show he's working to lower gas prices and possibly reorient U.S. foreign policy away from Ukraine and towards Russia.

Here with me now is Energy Secretary Chris Wright.

Thank you so much for being here this morning.

On Friday night, President Trump issued a waiver exempting Russia from the Lindsey Graham sanctions law that was set to go into effect this morning. The purpose of the law was to squeeze financially amid its war with Ukraine. Why did the president decide to waive these sanctions?

CHRIS WRIGHT, U.S. ENERGY SECRETARY: First, we should understand, Dana, that the main sanctions on Russia are all still on, that what Russia wants to export is oil.

And not only do we have sanctions on Russian oil, but the tightest ever. We sanctioned their biggest oil companies. Almost all Russian oil now must go to China, sold at a discount, sold at a long delay.

So, President Trump waived sanctions just on diesel exports. And what's the one thing Russia has not been able to export over the last month or so? Diesel, because they're short of diesel. The world is short of diesel. And President Trump is relentlessly looking for ways to bring cost relief to Americans.

So if Russia can bring additional diesel to the market and export it, it would benefit American consumers.

BASH: Right.

WRIGHT: It would benefit the world. But the only way to get there is to reduce their conflict with Iran -- I mean, with Ukraine, or to make an energy cease-fire. He's putting pressure that would both benefit American consumers and be a step forward for peace in the Russia- Ukraine war.

BASH: OK, so a lot to unpack there, first of all, just the last thing you said. So, now the U.S. stance is to pressure Ukraine, not Russia?

WRIGHT: Oh, this is pressuring Russia. Russia does not have diesel to export. The only way they can get additional diesel to export is if they turn down the conflict with Ukraine.

They have to either get an energy cease-fire, they have to either end the war or they have to reduce their war efforts so they have additional diesel to export.

BASH: But why don't you...

WRIGHT: This is not a going soft on Russia.

BASH: But why wasn't the -- why wasn't that demand met...

WRIGHT: This is an incentive to end the war.

BASH: Forgive me. I'm sorry.

Why wasn't that demand met before the diesel sanctions? And, by the way, I do want to get back to the Lindsey Graham Act, because you were talking about diesel now, but while we're on this, why was the deal made before Russia agreed to tone down or really come to an end with the war against Ukraine?

Because, by all accounts, it's been intensifying.

WRIGHT: Well, the war is the war's gone on for 4.5 years. And so what President Trump is trying to do is find, what different way will lead to peace?

Clearly, rational conversation, dialogues have not worked. He's always looking for innovations. This is quite innovative, actually. What does the world need most of all for energy right now? Diesel. What is Russia not able to supply right now? Diesel.

BASH: Well...

WRIGHT: This is a motivation for Russia to figure out how they can actually export some diesel.

[09:05:00]

BASH: So what do you say to so many people, including many fellow Republicans, who say, it's not a motivation, it's a capitulation?

WRIGHT: No, because they misunderstood this.

People -- energy is complicated, unfortunately. So people hear this and they think, oh, we have gone soft on Russia. Now they can export all their energy and Americans are going to buy it.

That's not what's happening at all. Russia wants to export oil. We have reduced zero sanctions on their oil. They only can sell their oil deeply discounted to one or two countries and to evade our sanctions. We are giving them a specific thing, diesel. What do you use diesel for? You make war with diesel. Your industry runs on diesel.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So what you're saying is that American and global gas prices can't come down unless the U.S. allows Russia to export diesel? Which, by the way, there are lots of experts who say that's not going to make much of a dent, even if it's happening.

WRIGHT: We have many -- we have many efforts to bring diesel prices down. We have been working with our allies in Europe to release diesel stores. They have excess diesel stores. We have worked with our refineries to expand their capacity.

We're about to launch the first refinery constructed in this country in decades.

BASH: Mr...

WRIGHT: We're doing all sorts of things to grow energy production. President Trump every day is figuring out how to increase energy supply to drive prices down.

BASH: Mr. Secretary, I do want to get back to the original question I asked, which is about the Lindsey Graham Act, economic sanctions on Russia, separate and apart from this diesel deal that you're talking about.

Why did the president do that?

WRIGHT: So this is the -- it's not -- the Lindsey Graham Act is not about economic sanctions on Russia. It's about economic sanctions on countries that trade with Russia.

There's two of those that are meaningful, China and India. We're in discussions with China about both this conflict and about long-term trade relations between us. He didn't -- he didn't end the Lindsey Graham sanctions. He's just suspended the enforcement of them for now. There's a lot of moving parts to...

BASH: But why? He had 30 days to look at it.

WRIGHT: Because there's a lot of moving parts in this conflict right now, that those powers are all still there for him to be used at the appropriate time.

BASH: You said back on the show in March, when the war with Iran first began, that gas prices would be lower within weeks, not months. And here we are several months later, with the midterm elections two weeks away. Americans are still facing record prices at the pump.

Has the administration let Americans down?

WRIGHT: No, we haven't.

And, Dana, I think you should be -- yes, I think you're well aware of that. The Iranian government killed 30,000 to 40,000 of their own citizens in January of this year before the conflict. Are you comfortable with a nuclear-armed Iranian regime that's in power right now?

I don't think anyone is comfortable with that. And when we discussed in March, I said the conflict part, the active war that we were -- the active attacks we were making would be over in four or five or six weeks, and they were. Gasoline prices did come down.

They never got remotely close to $5 a gallon, over $5 a gallon.

BASH: So are you comfortable with where gas prices are now?

WRIGHT: No, of course I'm not comfortable, but I'm happy they're coming down. They have gone down the last few weeks, as have diesel prices, and

they will continue to come down. That's what President Trump works on every day. And of course, he has to work against Democratic policies that, at the state level and federal level for 15 years have been focused on raising energy prices.

BASH: Yes.

WRIGHT: That's the contrast.

BASH: Well, I hope you're right that energy prices are coming down. I have been out on the trail, and I can tell you voters are not seeing that or feeling that.

Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being here.

My next guest led the House Intelligence Committee. Does he agree with the president on these issues? Republican Mike Rogers is in a nail- biter of a race for Senate in Michigan, and he joins me next.

And then another high-stakes contest up for grabs, this one in Maine. Democratic Senate candidate Troy Jackson joins me to talk about his strategy coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:13:23]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

As Democrats look to expand their Senate map in red states like Kansas and Ohio, they have growing concerns about races that they need to hold, like Michigan, where Dr. Abdul El-Sayed is in a heated contest against my next guest.

Here with me now is Republican Senate candidate former Congressman Mike Rogers.

Thank you so much for being here.

I do want to start with the sort of big news of the day, which is President Trump waived Russian sanctions on Friday that were overwhelmingly approved by the Senate, where you want to serve. Is that a mistake?

ROGERS: Well, that's just not where I would be. I would have voted for the sanctions bill.

If the president has a better idea to get diesel prices down, I'd be for it. I'm just a little skeptical that this will work in the way that the administration wants it to work. And we're paying a pretty heavy price here in Michigan. We have got to get these prices down, which is why I called to, hey, it's time to just wrap up the Iran conflict.

We have got to get this thing settled. Our initial objectives have been met. Let's wrap it up. Let's get these prices back down. Let's get people putting a little more money in their wallets.

BASH: Are you concerned that this move and other moves that he has made this week suggest that, as some of your fellow Republicans have said, that he's looking like he's more on the side of Russia than Ukraine?

ROGERS: No, I don't believe that. I think what he's trying to do is get prices down and still deal with an Iranian regime that wants to get back to having a nuclear weapon, and I think that just adds complexity to the geopolitical stage.

[09:15:01]

And it looks to me like the president's trying to do something to bring down diesel prices. And, again, I want diesel prices down, which is why I have called for a temporary diesel export ban here in the United States, a rebate for agricultural diesel use, which I'd have to do when I get elected, and I will.

And so I've tried to come at it a very different way. I do worry about the optics of it, but I understand what his motives are. And his motives are to try to get prices back down on diesel. Diesel is hurting us. September and October are the two biggest harvest months for Michigan.

The second most diverse crop in the country comes out of Michigan. Most people don't know that. And so these are two really critical months for us, and the costs for our farmers to get out there and get the crops out of the field because of the price of diesel is not great.

And it's really hard on a family who's showing up at the grocery store wondering why prices haven't come down.

BASH: But the cost of diesel is high mostly because of the Iran war, right, and the closure or at least the difficulty in the Strait of Hormuz, not Russia?

ROGERS: Well, we're also seeing India and China play a role in these high diesel prices.

BASH: Got it.

ROGERS: It's not just -- Iran is definitely a cause of this, but there's other causes geopolitically that are also raising prices.

BASH: OK.

ROGERS: And I think that's probably what their conclusion was. But, again, I would have voted for the sanctions bill on Russia. I don't think we can give Putin an inch. And we will see. If the strategy works, hey, good on him, because that means we're going to pay less for diesel here in the United States.

BASH: Let's talk more broadly about the economy, which you mentioned several times. Would you say Michiganders are better off now economically than they

were two years ago before President Trump took office again?

ROGERS: Well, our long-term prospects, yes. We -- because we have been able to through the -- some of the tariffs -- the Chevy Silverado was being built in Mexico. They just now moved that back to Michigan. That's a multibillion-dollar investment in Michigan.

Remember, the last eight years, we have lost 27,000 manufacturing jobs. The rest of the country has gained something like 100,000 manufacturing jobs. So, Democrats have been in control here for -- in both Senate seats for a quarter-century, in the last eight years in Michigan.

That's why people are looking for a change here. If we don't change this outcome, if we don't keep jobs, 200,000 jobs we have lost in manufacturing since 2000 -- our median wage slipped to $10,000 below the median average. I tie that directly to our manufacturing loss.

With that new plant coming, with reshoring happening in our suppliers. I mean, Detroit Diesel is now adding a third shift. They haven't done that in two decades. So all of that is really incredibly important for our long-term benefit in the economy. When the war is over -- and it will end, and I have called for it to end -- guess what?

Prices are coming down, and then we're in really good shape in Michigan to compete for the next generation of advanced manufacturing.

BASH: Right.

So your answer was the long term. But, obviously you're running very much how people are feeling in the short term. Consumer prices are rising at a faster rate than people's wages, meaning Americans are not keeping up with the cost of living, not to mention the gas prices, which you have mentioned several times. They're above $4 a gallon, have been for months.

So, the here and the now is what you're facing.

ROGERS: Well, no doubt it, but here's the thing.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So are they better off right now?

ROGERS: Dana, here's what you have to understand here happening in Michigan, though. And I get it. That's -- it's not easy, and it's not easy when you're buying groceries.

But you have to remember, under the Biden administration, 9 percent inflation. First time we hit $5.07 a gallon was just two short years ago. And so, if you think about the implications that Michiganders have lived through, we tried this other system of the Green New Deal, the green raw deal, I would say, with higher energy prices, higher utility prices; 20 cents a gallon they're calling for an increase in gas. So, when the war ends and we get back, we're getting ourselves in

shape or the Republicans in Washington are trying to get it in shape so that we have -- we can take full advantage of it, lower prices, lower energy prices, more access to American energy. All of that will help us.

They get it. Most people I talk to are frustrated with the costs, you bet. Who isn't when you're paying over four bucks a gallon.

BASH: Yes.

ROGERS: That's why I called for a 70-cent-a-gallon tax holiday. Listen, we're trying to do things that we can.

And, by the way, who voted for -- against that tax holiday? Democrats in Lansing. And so they want prices high. This is their modem (sic) operandi. We're trying to change that. This is a change election. If you want better economy, you want your kids to stay here, if you want your kids reading again...

BASH: Congressman...

ROGERS: ... this is the time that we..

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Congressman, to I do want to move on to something else. I want to play what President Trump said about Abdul El-Sayed at a rally Friday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: His name is actually Abdullah Sabdalullah. It's Abdullahbabababa Mohamed El-Sayed. So his middle name is Mohamed. So I was right, almost.

[09:20:08]

Oh, by the way, how about that guy? He's a jihadist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The president is effectively calling your opponent a terrorist.

You're a former special agent with the FBI, former Intelligence chair in the House. Are you comfortable with that?

ROGERS: Listen, I have never called him a terrorist. I wore the uniform in the United States of America, so people can pray any way they want. That is not the issue here.

What has become the issue is his relationship and his family relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is banned in five Muslim countries. You know, he wants to play the victim. This is not about that. This is about the way you think, not the way you pray. This is about your ideology and how dangerous it is. I mean, he has a long history of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood,

which, by the way, diminishes women's role in society, just as they did when they took over in Egypt in 2012 and 2013. He supported that regime.

BASH: Congressman -- Congressman, first, I just want to go back.

ROGERS: He called for the purging of the press. He called for purging of police.

BASH: Congressman, I want to go back to what the president said.

ROGERS: As a matter of fact, if I were the press, I would start looking at this.

BASH: I want back to what the president said. And you're saying that you disagree.

ROGERS: Listen, I -- listen, I don't speak for the president. I don't represent the president. The president is going to do what he's going to do.

BASH: I know, but I want to say, do you wish that he doesn't say that? He's coming to Michigan.

ROGERS: I'm running my race right here in Michigan, Dana. I'm running my race in Michigan.

BASH: So, do you wish that he didn't call him a jihadist?

ROGERS: I know you guys want this to be about Trump. This is about Michiganders who are looking for hope and opportunity.

BASH: Right. The president isn't...

ROGERS: Two-thirds of our fourth graders can't read in the fourth grade.

BASH: Yes. The president...

ROGERS: That means you have a 70 percent chance of going to prison or being on welfare.

BASH: The president is inserting himself in that race.

ROGERS: That's what we're worried about right here in Michigan.

BASH: Yes. Yes, I understand. I have been there, and I know that is what people are worried about.

The president is inserting himself in that race...

ROGERS: Yes, they sure are.

BASH: ... because pretty much, every time he talks, he says something about Abdul El-Sayed. You mentioned that he you said that he has had ties to the Muslim

Brotherhood. Well, he was asked specifically about whether he would disavow the Muslim Brotherhood at a town hall last night. I want to listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have one simple question. Will you disavow the Muslim Brotherhood?

EL-SAYED: Sure. Yes, absolutely.

But I want to -- I want to ask to the question that you're asking, why are you asking the question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because they're a terrorist group.

EL-SAYED: OK. No, no, but what are you implying, though? Do you assume that I wouldn't?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

EL-SAYED: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not heard you disavow them yet.

EL-SAYED: Have you disavowed them? I haven't heard you disavow them yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I disavow them.

EL-SAYED: Do you? Great.

But here's the thing about it. You're asking the question because implicitly you assume that I will have dual loyalties, right? You assume that somehow I wouldn't disavow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So he said, "Yes, sure," challenged the voter and said the voter only asked him because he's a Muslim.

ROGERS: No.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGERS: So, Hasan Piker, who really came to the state, he had him here multiple times, five different events, took him to college campuses, and this guy is full of hate and vitriol, not only for Jewish Americans, but for black Americans.

You listen to his comments, this guy is as vile as they come. He has said he was excited about his answer because he did not disavow the Muslim Brother -- he didn't disavow it. He goes on this word salad trying to get around the fact that he can't do it.

BASH: He said -- he did -- he did say -- he said, "Sure, yes."

ROGERS: No, that's not true. Dana, listen...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I don't want to debate with you.

ROGERS: I don't know why the press is so eager for him -- to protect this guy.

BASH: Congressman, I just want to be factual.

ROGERS: And it is. It's an ideology.

BASH: I want to be factual. He said, "Yes, sure."

ROGERS: My argument is, is that ideology something we should worry about? I think it is.

BASH: Why?

ROGERS: It's an ideology. It's not about him being a Muslim. It -- matter of fact, Muslims here in the state call our office a lot and say, we're terrified that a guy with this ideology goes to the United States Senate.

I mean, that's -- these are coming from Muslims in Michigan, let alone the five countries that banned the Muslim Mother -- Brotherhood. He can't get away from it. His money comes from a group called CAIR...

BASH: Yes.

ROGERS: ... the Council on American-Islamic Relations, that supports the Muslim Brotherhood, right?

He has money coming from these groups. And if you listen to that, that's not a -- he didn't disavow it. He didn't say no. He didn't say it worries me that they treat women differently under the Muslim Brotherhood's view of Sharia law. He didn't say any of that. He didn't because he won't and he can't.

Matter of fact, it's the only thing he hasn't changed his opinion on in this election.

BASH: You are working very hard to appeal to black voters who are not yet sold on Abdul El-Sayed. You opened a campaign office in Detroit just yesterday, which is unusual for a Republican.

Next week, President Obama is coming to campaign with him. Are you worried that that will blunt the inroads that you're making, especially in the black community? And how critical is that for this new kind of coalition you're trying to build?

ROGERS: Well, the coalitions, I have to tell you, are very, very exciting, huge opportunities. And we're talking about solutions when we go to these communities. We treat them with respect. We listen, and then we kind of forge an idea what we're going to do to work together after the election. That's, I think, the biggest difference in all of this.

[09:25:02]

As people tell me from Detroit, Obama is coming here for Chuck Schumer. He's not coming here for us Detroiters. And so what we're finding is, this is a huge opportunity for us to have conversations with people we just haven't -- the door hasn't been opened to even have a conversation.

And what I think people don't understand, I'm not going down there saying you have to be a Republican or vote Republican. I'm saying, vote your values. Vote for Mike Rogers. Here's why. We're talking about education and skilled trades and getting opportunities for shop back for these kids and getting them literate again.

We have 15 percent of Detroiters, 15, in the eighth grade can read at the eighth grade. We have high truancy rates. Would you go to school if you can't read? I think it's criminal what we're doing in the school systems to these kids. That is not an opportunity to build. We're having great conversations.

Our -- you can see it. Where else do you have a Democrat for Rogers? They're doing their own thing. They have black Americans from Detroit to Flint to Pontiac are coming out openly and saying they're going to endorse Mike Rogers. This is a land shift kind of thing. This is seismic.

And it's not based on anything. It's not left. It's not right. People have been -- they feel they have been abandoned. You can bring in Barack Obama. As they say, still love him. They do love Obama. They're going to show up in droves. Doesn't mean they're going to vote for Abdul El-Sayed, by our own conversations.

And these are real. So you start taking Jewish Democrats who are coming out.

BASH: Yes.

ROGERS: The former chairman of the Democrat Party came out opposed to Abdul said, the Democrat Party. Nobody's talking about all of this. It's a real seismic shift. That's why we're going to win in November.

BASH: Congressman, thank you so much.

And just for the record, I'm not defending anyone. I'm just trying to be factual and use the words that he used, which is, "Yes, sure."

ROGERS: Sure sounded like it to me, Dana, but let's continue the conversation.

BASH: All right. Thank you, Congressman. I appreciate it.

And he is bringing out the big-name closers with two weeks to go, Elizabeth Warren, AOC, Bernie Sanders. Will it work in Maine? Democratic Senate candidate Troy Jackson joins me for a rare national interview next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:18]

BASH: Could a blue wave knock Senator Susan Collins out of her seat?

I traveled to Maine to sit down with Senator Collins' opponent, Democrat Troy Jackson, who replaced Graham Platner on the ballot and has had less than 100 days to convince Maine voters to choose him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: This is a neck-and-neck race. You are dead even with Susan Collins. Why?

JACKSON: Well, I mean, I think because Senator Collins is a 30-year incumbent. I mean she's dealt with people for a long time. She makes the argument that she brings a lot of money to Maine. I disagree.

But I think that's just the reality. And then the other part of this is that, I've had less than 100 days to create a campaign, get around the state, make my case. And I think we're doing very well.

But I do think that the thing about this -- I mean, you brought it up. there's something happening in Maine like I've never seen before, and it happened before I got into this race. People across the state know that government is fundamentally broke, and they want change. And this race is really coming down to the fact that it isn't about me or Susan Collins.

It's about making sure that we have a government that works for us, and people know that's not happening because Donald Trump is making it so damn hard for people to live in this country, and Susan Collins is complicit with that.

BASH: Yes, I mean, she of course argues that it is about Susan Collins and you, because she has such seniority, she does bring money back to the state, and that that would be missing if you were elected.

JACKSON: Well, I think it's going to be missing regardless, because it looks to me like Democrats are going to take control and she won't be chair.

But, even still, if she was, what Susan Collins has brought back to the state is a pittance to what she's helped us lose. we're going to lose $3 billion to $5 billion in Medicaid funding in Maine. We're losing SNAP benefits, which are a big deal in the state. We have a lot of food and security, but not only -- our farmers depend on that SNAP to sell their wares.

We're losing the heating assistance. I mean, in the state that is so dependent on oil, our heating costs are 80 percent higher just this year than last year. And that's because of the Iran war. We got the trade issues going on. These are all things that Senator Collins could have used or done something about because of her chairmanship of Appropriations.

But she's not willing to back -- go against Donald Trump.

BASH: I'm going to ask you about some of your policy proposals and just kind of try to flesh some out.

Health care, you were a really early supporter of Medicare for all. There are people who like their private insurance plans. Would they be able to stay on those private plans under your...

JACKSON: I think, on elective surgeries and things like that, yes, but, I mean, overall basic health care, Medicare for all should have everyone covered in that.

BASH: So it would be a public plan. For example, Bernie Sanders, who I know you endorsed and campaigned with when he was running for president here...

JACKSON: Yes.

BASH: ... he -- his plan would be to phase out private plans over a four-year period.

JACKSON: Yes.

BASH: And then after that four-year period, it would all be public health.

JACKSON: Right.

Yes, I mean, that's what we have seen here in Maine too. Whenever we have tried to do this, is, like, everyone has to get into the plan. I mean, I think the controversy over this is that the health care industry, big pharma has made people feel like they're not going to get as good a coverage, you will be getting something less than.

But I actually see a scenario where this is going to be great coverage. You will have eye, ear, dental.. You won't have to pay the obscene co-pays and things like that.

[09:35:08]

BASH: You have said that it could be paid for by money that currently funds ICE, America's wars abroad. If you kind of back of the envelope on those prices, it's about $123 billion.

In 2020, Senator Sanders' plan was estimated to cost between $30 to $40 trillion. So how would you make that up? How would you pay for this?

JACKSON: Well, that's the overall health care. I mean, that's not just the added people that we're bringing -- that we would be bringing in.

And that's not the only things I said that -- I mean, I think that we need to have a fair taxation system. I don't want billionaires getting tax cuts. I mean, I believe that we need to roll those back. I mean, we always have money to spend on aircraft carriers and things like that, but, as soon as you -- the wars in Iran.

But as soon as you start talking about health care, people start acting like there's no way to do this. I mean, every other country that I know that's industrial has been able to pay for health care. I'm pretty sure we can do it here too.

BASH: Have you looked at the math? You think that the cuts that you're proposing will take care of Medicare for all?

JACKSON: Well, what I have looked at is, in states like Maine, whenever we have done studies on self-insured and whenever we have done studies across the country, every time we have shown that we're already paying the cost of this, that this is already being paid, but unfortunately it's going in executive pockets.

Greed is running this health care system. And when we cut the administrative burden, the greed out of it, I'm sure that we can afford to pay for it.

BASH: You talked about home heating oil, which is incredibly high here in Maine.

You said that we should just get out of Iran as quickly as possible. How would that work? Would you be OK with just pulling out of Iran? And what would that mean for the Strait of Hormuz, which is still or would be certainly controlled by Iran if that happened, which would continue to keep the oil prices high?

JACKSON: Well, Iran controlled it before and the oil prices weren't anywhere near...

BASH: They didn't. It was open.

JACKSON: Well...

BASH: Before the Iran war? No, it wasn't. It was open.

JACKSON: Well, Iran had the ability to do what they did before we started bombing them, and things were fine. I'm sure that if we move out of Iran, things will stabilize and prices will probably go down.

I mean, the...

BASH: You think, if the United States just leaves, Iran will say, OK, fine, we're going to pull out of the Strait of Hormuz?

JACKSON: Well, it's a lot better than what we're doing right now. And I definitely think that we need to make sure that we protect our troops getting out of there in a manner that they're safe. But, yes, I do. I think we need to get out of that war, and hopefully prices will stabilize.

I mean, they rose because we got into it.

BASH: I mean, the situation is challenging, no question about it.

JACKSON: Well, it wasn't before -- it wasn't before Donald Trump got us into that, Dana.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: It wasn't. It wasn't. But now we are where we are. And there are blockades and other ways that the U.S. being there is at least letting some ships through.

And if the U.S. leaves, why would Iran just pull up stakes and say, OK, fine, we can just we will leave it open?

JACKSON: I'm sure we can negotiate something that has us leave the Strait of Hormuz without losing any more ships, going back to a situation where we used to be.

I mean, President Obama negotiated a deal where we weren't -- they weren't enriching uranium. We didn't have these issues. Donald Trump tore it up, and now we're in the mess that we're in because he wanted to play war games. I'm sure there's a way that we could negotiate with them to get back some semblance of what it was before this and get oil prices stabilized.

BASH: This week, there was a protester in the debate that you had with Susan Collins. She responded by saying "This must be a Troy Jackson supporter," and you told the senator, "Shut up."

Do you regret saying that no?

JACKSON: No, she said that it was a Troy supporter. I mean, she accused me of setting that up. I had no idea who it was.

I mean, I was surprised whenever he jumped up out of there. I have had four debates with Senator Collins. I have shook her hand afterwards every time. But what I'm not going to be is talked down to by Senator Collins. I'm not going to be accused of things like that.

I mean, I'm fighting for Mainers. And, I mean, I just think that was another situation where she was talking down to me. And so I'm not -- I'm not going to apologize for that now.

BASH: Some Republicans are saying that there were stories when you were in the legislature of women who were there who said that you were -- I don't know about talking down to them, but you were sort of aggressive in your tone, and that this is another example of that.

[09:40:12]

JACKSON: Some Republicans have been spending millions of dollars attacking me and my family, making untrue claims, things that they had to take off the air. And so it doesn't surprise me that some Republicans wouldn't be making any claims.

BASH: So, again, the "Shut up" thing, you're going to leave it as is, no apologies? JACKSON: Yes.

BASH: What should we know about you that we don't?

JACKSON: Well, I have an intense desire to deliver for people I care about, and that's what I have been doing for the last 20 years, deliver for people universal school meals, childcare, prescription drugs, trying to make health care better.

I have gone up against big pharma. You know, I do. I fight for the people that need someone in their corner.

And I think right now, in the U.S. Senate, at least in Maine, we don't have anyone in everyday people's corners, and that's definitely what I'm going there for, is to make sure that we do have a Medicare for all system, regardless of how we pay for it, that everyday people can have health insurance, and they don't have to lay at night wondering about what's happening in their chest, and -- but at the same time wondering how they're going to pay for it.

I mean, those are things that I consider a lot. I mean, fuel bills right now -- I mean, I ended up knowing how to bleed a furnace when I was like 11, 12 years old because we ran out of oil so often. I mean, I know what it's like to lay there at night and wonder if the oil furnace is going to go off the next time or not.

And that's an -- that's something that I don't think kids should have to worry about. Those are things that I'm going to bring to the U.S. Senate because I don't think there's many people down there to give a shit about that stuff.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: We asked Senator Susan Collins to join us as well. She wasn't available when we were in Maine, but we hope to make that interview happen before the election.

Up next: President Trump has been sizing up all his Republican candidates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He came up and he was talking very nicely, and I stood right over here, and I examined his ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:46:37]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't do this with men very often. I started examining his body. I looked at his ass and I looked at the whole...

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: And I looked at his shoulders. I looked at his feet. I looked at his hand. I looked at his jawline. Mike Collins is a good-looking man. and he's all man. He's all man. I'm not sure about Ossoff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome to our panel.

Trump being Trump, or is it like -- what's your take on that, Scott Jennings?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'll give you some serious analysis. He likes big butts and he cannot lie.

(LAUGHTER)

JENNINGS: And Bakari cannot deny it.

BASH: OK.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you for this at 9:46 a.m.

I will tell you this, though, that Jon Ossoff is a handsome man. So I don't know who he was talking about. But Jon Ossoff, Wes Moore, we are winning the handsome category.

BASH: All right, let's talk about -- let's talk about the numbers.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I'm moving on. I'm moving on. I'm moving on.

There are some new polls out this morning that really just reinforce what we know about the president being so underwater. His approval as president, this is "The Washington Post," strongly disapprove 52 percent. Would you rather see Congress controlled by Democrats or Republican? Fifty-eight percent say Democrats to check Trump, Brad.

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's the question to look at.

Donald Trump's numbers are fairly inelastic, and he is helpful in -- with some low-propensity voters, which makes him unique. Barack Obama in the midterm of his second term campaigned in exactly zero states in October because he wasn't helpful. And Donald Trump is helpful in turning low-propensity Republicans out, which is important.

But I am concerned about that question of control of Congress. I haven't seen in a legitimate poll taken by a partisan firm a number that outsized. It's pretty closely divided, but Democrats are a lot better off than I wish they were right now.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: When a president's disapproval is that low, it brings down the entire ticket. And I think that you're seeing this across the country with Republicans.

And even in some states, when President Trump is going to campaign, he's not talking about the issues that are helpful to Republicans, like costs and like delivering. A lot of it is culture wars. A lot of it is name-calling, et cetera.

And we're noticing, in some of these critical states, and it's in red states as well, that it is actually not helping Republicans. And so you saw in a state like Texas, where I'm from, my sister's running for governor there, you even had Republicans not wanting to campaign with him in that state.

And so, with a president that low in his approval rating, yes, if I were him, I would stay off the campaign trail, because at this point it's not necessarily helping Dem -- or Republicans.

BASH: Scott, we're two weeks out. What are you looking at and thinking about that we should all be focused on?

JENNINGS: Well, I have seen some surveys out there in districts where president's number is here, but then the generic actually for a Republican is actually a little higher.

And so there's like a gulf of Republican voters that may be upset about one issue or the other or the other. They don't -- they haven't magically turned into Democrats. They still generically feel like Republicans. They just need to be motivated to turn out and vote, or to be reminded that there's a choice.

And the choice here is that the Democratic Party's gone plumb crazy. Not a single Democrat running for office is offering a single idea, piece of legislation, or anything else that would bring down the cost of anything. And, oh, by the way, they gave us this crisis in the first place.

If I were running a race right now, that's how I'd be positioning as a Republican because of this gulf of Republican voters who, they're conservative. Maybe they're unhappy, but they're conservative and they just need to be reminded, don't turn the country over to these socialists.

[09:50:06]

SELLERS: I love brad and I love Scott. I mean, they do their job really well, because there's not a lot to be excited about if you're a Republican this morning and you're this close to the election.

What I'm looking at is places like North Carolina, N.C. State University, who just had a long line of kids walking an hour to vote in Greensboro, North Carolina, to their polling place. They got their polling place removed from their campus and they literally were marching an hour one way simply to vote.

What I'm looking at is Harris County in Texas. If Talarico wins by 20- points plus, that means that Democrats are going to win Texas.

BASH: The Houston area, where's there's a large African-American...

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: The Houston -- yes, it's the largest -- it's the largest concentration of voters, and it's a large concentration of African- American voters.

I'm looking to see what Sherrod Brown does. I mean, Republicans are defending places they never thought they would defend. I'm not necessarily gung-ho on Texas. I'm not gung-ho on Iowa. I'm not gung-ho on Kansas, but because we have great candidates, we have a shot.

And what happens with Republicans oftentimes is that they lose the quality of candidate battle. And we're seeing that. Ken Paxton...

JENNINGS: Hold on now.

SELLERS: Ken Paxton's the worst candidate to run for statewide office in a long period of time.

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: And lucky for him he gets to run against James Talarico.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: Across the North, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, you want to talk up to me about candidate quality.

SELLERS: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: The Republicans have better candidates in all three places, all blue states, all blue territory, and you know Democrats are puckered up in each case.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Let me get Brad in here.

SELLERS: The only person who is better than Michele Tafoya at her job is the young lady who lost her job last week after four days.

BASH: Brad.

TODD: I'm watching a couple of things. That's the outliers.

And Bakari's right about North Carolina. The early vote totals look great for Democrats, bad for Republicans there, but there are some -- that's an outlier. That shouldn't be the way it is.

But I look at other places, like, for instance, Bucks County, Pennsylvania, bellwether county in that state, where we have Congressman Fitzpatrick, who is one of the Republicans who holds a seat Kamala Harris won. Republicans' share of absentee ballots is actually up there. It's higher this time than it was in 2024 or 2022.

I'm looking at Colorado.

SELLERS: He's going to lose.

TODD: I'm looking -- he's going to win.

The Colorado 8, Gabe Evans in the most evenly drawn seat in the country, is running ahead of Manny Rutinel right now. So I'm looking at those lumpy places that are going against the trend.

HINOJOSA: Yes, and Latino voters, I think, is -- they're the big sleeping giant. They went Republican in 2024. They look like they're coming back to Democrats.

And in a place like in South Texas, where Bobby Pulido is running in a plus-19 district in the Rio Grande Valley, he had a rally last night that had 8,000 people. Name me another congressional district where there is a rally of a congressional candidate where you have 8,000 people to turn out for that congressional candidate.

He is now polling ahead. Again, these are districts that Republicans redrew to make more Republican. And it actually looks like Democrats may pull off wins in these very tough districts. And so I think that is another thing to keep your eye on ahead of the election.

JENNINGS: One other district, Florida, the Jared Moskowitz seat.

I was talking to Henry Olsen from "Washington Post" this week. He was looking at the voter registration trends down there, actually, in that district. Republicans are up in voter registration. Now that district also has a heavy concentration of Jewish voters.

And when -- if that -- if that is true, and Jewish voters in that district are trending to Republican, think about the other places where that's going to make an impact, particularly in Michigan, where you got a very close Senate race where the Jewish community there is rightfully worried.

So I -- that is another little chute of data that told me maybe there's some things going on under the water.

SELLERS: Democrats are going to win the House. The question is by how much. Republicans around this table, if you're not afraid of losing the Senate, then you're not being real with yourself.

BASH: Yes.

SELLERS: And the fact is, we're going to actually win some gubernatorial mansions that we should not. Think about Wisconsin. I mean, this is a good year for Democrats, because...

(CROSSTALK)

TODD: Coin flip. Wisconsin's a close race.

BASH: All right, guys.

TODD: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Great discussion.

And the first American pope is already back at work days after surgery. That's how you know he's an American. That's next.

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[09:58:42]

BASH: A welcome sight this morning, Pope Leo leading prayers after undergoing surgery for lung cancer earlier this week. We are so glad to see it.

Thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with us.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.