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State of the Union

Interview With U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche; Interview With Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-PA); Interview With Rep. Haley Stevens (D- MI). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 25, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Ballot battle. The president rails against Alaska's Senate race and asks his Justice Department to intervene.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm the one that said, do it.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: How far will he go?

TODD BLANCHE, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's never our intention to improperly interfere with elections.

BASH: Attorney General Todd Blanch joins me next.

Plus: Run up the score? A top Democrat campaigns in deep red parts of a key battleground. Could a big win take him from the Pennsylvania Statehouse to Pennsylvania Avenue?

(on camera): Are you going to finish out your term if you win?

(voice-over): I caught up with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro on his reelection campaign bus tour.

And split screen. Democrats bring in their closer.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everywhere you go, it feels like change is in the air.

BASH: Will it work in Michigan? Congresswoman Haley Stevens and Ronna Romney McDaniel join our panel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is wondering what's in store next week. We're nine days from the midterm elections, and President Trump seems

concerned. He took to social media last night to vent about his new obsession, Alaska's Senate race, where incumbent Senator Dan S. Sullivan is trying to fend off a challenge from Democrat Mary Peltola. But there is a complicating factor.

A man named Dan J. Sullivan is also on the ballot, raising Republican fears that voters might get confused. The Alaska Supreme Court ruled in June that the second Dan Sullivan can remain on the ballot. But the president is now objecting, accusing Democrats of wanting to steal the election and saying the Justice Department was trying to stop this impending crime and tragedy.

Now, he's referring to a DOJ lawsuit filed just on Friday, days before the election, pushing to stop Alaska's certification process if the incumbent Republican Senator Sullivan suffers a loss.

Here with me now is the attorney general of the United States, Todd Blanch.

Thank you so much for being here.

I want to start where I just left off, which is the question. What exactly is the crime that the president says is being committed in Alaska?

BLANCHE: Well, it's not the president -- it's not only the president that's saying that. It's the director of the Alaskan election process, who has said that the second Dan Sullivan is going to create confusion, is not a real candidate, and is on the ballot only to pull votes from the incumbent.

So the real question that Americans should be asking is not what you just opened on, but how, as a country, how, as Alaskans, are we allowing this to happen? How can it be that somebody that the director of the Alaskan election process has said is a fraud and should not be allowed to run because his only purpose is to pull votes away from the from another candidate who's running for the right reasons?

BASH: What's the crime?

BLANCHE: And so - yes, so the department -- what's the crime? Well, it depends. There could be a crime, but the real wrong here is that Alaskans are going to be confused and will not have their vote heard.

So, an Alaskan intends to vote for one candidate, but is confused because of the -- of a second candidate with exactly the same name who's voted Democrat his entire life, who donated money to the other Democrat opponent, is running. That's the real question.

BASH: Mr. Attorney General, I don't need to tell you that the Constitution says -- Article I in the Constitution, Article I, section 4, states that the times, places, and manner of holding elections for senators and representatives shall be prescribed in each state.

You mentioned the fact that people are upset in Alaska. It went all the way up to the Alaska State Supreme Court, and they ruled four months ago on this matter. They said that Daniel J. Sullivan Jr. could remain on the ballot.

BLANCHE: Well, conveniently, you put up the Constitution on your screen, but you highlighted on the first clause. Why don't you show the next clause to your viewers, which says that Congress is allowed to pass laws to make sure that that happens?

BASH: Yes. Yes.

BLANCHE: Put that back up there.

BASH: Yes, right.

BLANCHE: And that's exactly what we're doing. So the Alaska Supreme -- the Alaska Supreme Court did not address the federal law that's implied.

BASH: We have it up.

BLANCHE: Go ahead. And that is what we are doing now.

So -- OK, so but, look, so you highlighted the first clause. The second clause says, but the Congress may at any time by law, and we have a law. And that's the law that we're relying on when we -- when we filed suit earlier this week.

BASH: The so-called motor voter law.

BLANCHE: So, this isn't about taking away the rights of a -- well, that's not what the -- that's -- what does so-called mean? That's not what the law is called.

[09:05:05]

BASH: Well, the law...

BLANCHE: It's the Voter Registration Act.

BASH: OK.

BLANCHE: And so -- go ahead.

BASH: Go ahead. No, you go.

BLANCHE: No, but the -- what we're doing, what we're doing, the Alaska Supreme Court has said that, under Alaskan law, this second Sullivan can run. That's because, unlike many states, Alaska doesn't have a statute or a law that says that the same name can't run.

But make no mistake about it, the head of Alaskan elections has made very clear that this candidate's only purpose is to confuse voters. And so what do you think the Department of Justice should do when there is a head of election, there's a federal system in place, there's laws in place that allow us to step in if constitutional rights and statutory rights are potentially being violated in the election process?

We don't do it very often, but can you name a single time in our history where this has happened at a Senate race? No, it's happened in local races before, but never before have opponents gone to such lengths to try to thwart and cheat in an election as they're doing in this case. And that is not my words.

That's not President Trump's words. Those are the words of the head of the election -- Alaskan election system.

BASH: You are right that the Constitution says Congress can change the laws, and that is a law that the courts will decide on, whether or not your challenge is going to live.

The Alaska Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said that you, the DOJ, should never have filed this lawsuit. She said: "Alaskans don't need any help voting for their preferred candidates, and the state of Alaska has already handled this by clearly distinguishing the candidates on this year's ballot."

Again, this isn't my words. These are Lisa Murkowski, your fellow Republican. And she's referring to the fact that, through the legal process in Alaska, the decision was that the ballot would clear -- from their perspective, more clearly state that the incumbent Republican Senator Dan Sullivan would be noted as such and it would differentiate from Dan Sullivan.

That's what Lisa Murkowski is referring to.

BLANCHE: Well, I don't -- I understand what the senator said, but I would point out that the relief that we're seeking isn't different from what the senator is talking about.

We're not saying that the federal government is going to decide who the next senator from Alaska is. What we're asking the -- what we're asking the court to do is make sure that after the -- after the election, if it's clear that there was confusion, if it's clear -- and that's for a court to decide at a later date if there's litigation.

But if it's clear that there was confusion, and that confusion led to an unjust, improper result that is not the will of the Alaskan voters, we want to make sure that the Alaskan system and the Alaskan state courts and the Alaskan electoral process can understand that in a way that lets them do the right thing.

BASH: OK, so let's say that happens and you are successful in this complaint. Can we just play out how that would work?

The incumbent Republican loses, you win. Then -- ballots are secret. So how are you going to find the people who voted and ask them whether or not they intended to vote for this Dan Sullivan or that Dan Sullivan? Isn't that undermining the integrity of the election?

BLANCHE: Wait. Sorry. So you're just not right about what you're saying. So, under Alaska, they have a ranked-based voting system. So.. BASH: Well, I want you to explain to me the practicality of, if you are successful, how you are going to determine what voters intended. Where are they? How are you going to find them and determine what they intended when they cast their ballots? How is that going to work?

BLANCHE: So it -- well, that's exactly what we're trying to do in this lawsuit.

So because of rank-based voting, voters, they wrote -- they write not just one, not just two, but multiple names on the ballot. And so there are a number of scenarios where it could be obvious that a voter was confused by the way they wrote down candidates.

And, in those cases -- and it's not -- when you say you, you, you, you're talking about the Department of Justice. Wrong. That will be the Alaskan system and the Alaskan state electoral system looking into whether voters were confused when they...

BASH: But it will be at your behest. How will they be able to do that?

BLANCHE: It won't be at my behest. We're filing a lawsuit to allow the documents...

BASH: Well, if you're successful.

BLANCHE: ... and the ballots to be in a place that the Alaskan government -- that is what we're asking for in the lawsuit. If we are successful, the state of Alaska, if something happens after the election that is clear that voters were confused, and that confusion -- which, by the way, why is this controversial?

The fact that I'm saying that voters -- that they're so confused by what by what a candidate has done in literally making up a candidacy to try to confuse voters, that we're going to try to try to create a situation where that can be remedied, that shouldn't be something that is causing this shock and horror.

That should be what every single Alaskan expects of their government.

BASH: If there were two Democratic Dan Sullivans on the ballot and they were potentially canceling each other out, would you be filing the same lawsuit?

BLANCHE: Absolutely, of course. And, by the way, there wouldn't be the same shock and horror.

I mean, the fact that CNN hasn't even talked about this for months and months and months, until we filed the lawsuit, the fact that there is a candidate in Alaska running literally making up a name to confuse voters, and it doesn't even rise to the level of any shows on Sunday morning, but when we try to remedy it, suddenly, it's this surprise.

[09:10:21]

That's really disappointing... BASH: Well...

BLANCHE: ... that there isn't the same frustration with the system that allows this to happen, right?

You agree with me, Dana, right, that this is done to confuse voters. You agree with me, right?

BASH: I -- what I disagree with you on...

BLANCHE: Come on. You can say it. You can say it. You can say it.

BASH: ... is that we haven't this. We have covered this. And the Supreme Court answered this in June.

BLANCHE: Do you agree with me that this candidate is trying to confuse voters? This candidate is trying to confuse voters, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: My question for you is...

BLANCHE: There is no other alternative.

BASH: My question for you is about -- was about the federal government's role. And you're right. The courts will determine whether or not you have one.

BLANCHE: Yes.

BASH: Let's talk about the president. On Friday, he said -- quote -- "I'm the one that said do it."

BLANCHE: Well, the...

BASH: Did the president direct you to sue Alaska?

BLANCHE: So, the president has been talking about Alaska for months and months, right? So, in your opening monologue, you suggested it's his latest concern. That's not true. He's been talking about it since May and June, when this started happening.

And so this isn't something that just popped up. Similarly, the Department of Justice has been looking at it since it happened because it is wrong. It is wrong. Putting aside whether we're going to win or lose in the courts, putting aside what the Alaskan Supreme Court has done., in our system, we should not have a candidate who has to worry about another candidate being on the ballot for no other reason than to confuse voters.

And so it's something the Department of Justice has been looking at for a while.

BASH: Yes. So...

BLANCHE: And we wish that there -- that we didn't have to do this. And we hope for a resolution that works.

BASH: So, then why -- given what you just said, the Supreme Court in Alaska made this decision in June, and you said the president's been talking about it for a while, why wait till less than two weeks before the election to file?

BLANCHE: Well, there's a couple of different reasons.

One, we had to file before the election because the relief that we're seeking, which, again, isn't to determine who the senator is, it's not to try to overturn something the state is going to do. It's just to make sure that there -- that the ballots that come in are kept in a way that may allow a court to investigate further or to have the Alaskan investigation investigate further.

And, second, the Alaska Supreme Court indicated they were going to issue a decision behind their ruling, and we were hoping to have that. It hasn't -- they haven't issued such a decision, and so we had no time.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: OK, can we go back to the question I asked about the president? Did he direct you to file this lawsuit?

BLANCHE: So, I talk about this all the time, OK?

I will never talk about any communications I have with the president of the United States. But what I will say is that the president is not shy to the American people and has been very clear with the American people about his concerns about what's happening in Alaska, and so the fact that -- and the Department of Justice has been as well, which is our job.

It's what we're supposed to be. And so this lawsuit was a result of the work that the department attorneys did in the civil rights unit that determined that there was a federal law that obligated us to try to step in to stop what -- what I think every American views as an injustice.

Like, I mean, you won't admit it, but it is true that the only reason this man is on the ballot is to confuse voters. I mean, if everybody would start with that premise, then I think the awe and the frustration people are having towards the Department of Justice would dissipate, because we're doing the right thing.

BASH: OK, I just want to emphasize what you said that you didn't say, no, that the president didn't direct you.

And this is a president who are -- saying Democrats are trying to steal this important seat. He's admitting it's political. Do you see your job as helping Republicans keep the seat?

BLANCHE: He's not admitting it's political. Wait, you're saying that a president saying that there's a -- that there's a improper -- something improper happening at the ballots is necessarily political? He's the executive. He's supposed to make sure that there's -- everything in this country is running right, including elections.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: He said Democrats are trying to steal this election.

BLANCHE: But steal this election how. Finish your thought.

BASH: It's not my thought. It's his thought.

BLANCHE: By cheating, by putting a candidate up -- no, no, no. That's not all he said. He didn't stop there. You can't just cherry-pick a quote from the president of the United States and then ask me to comment on it.

What he has said repeatedly, repeatedly, is that the reason why this is not fair, this is not a fair fight in his mind, because there is a man on the ballot with -- I mean, let's just keep on saying it again, with the same name as the incumbent senator, who happens to be a Republican. And everybody, including -- not President Trump...

BASH: I understand, but is that -- but this is a question about a -- about the law. Do you believe that that is illegal? Is it illegal to have one ballot with two people of the same name? That is one of the fundamental questions that will be asked.

(CROSSTALK)

BLANCHE: So here's the answer, the very short answer to that question, OK, which is that it is an obligation of the states to avoid confusion, among other things, confusion in the minds of voters in the election process.

[09:15:05]

So, the question is whether Alaska, by allowing this to happen, is violating the law and the federal law and the Constitution by allowing confusion in the ballot, OK? That is the question.

And in my mind, it's not a hard one, because -- not because of what President Trump has said, and not because of what I think, but because the head of the Alaskan election process has said it. So it's not my words, not President Trump's words. It's the head of Alaskan elections.

BASH: Can we just -- can we just take a step back here? Can we take a step back as to -- you were asking why people are asking questions about this.

And let's just talk turkey, because one of the big questions is whether or not the president is laying the groundwork for a scenario where the -- whether it's Alaska or somewhere else, there is, in your words, a couple of days ago, a doomsday scenario, and we could be in a situation where President Trump tries to overturn the election, and the result of that could be, God forbid, what we saw after January 6. That is one of the fundamental questions.

BLANCHE: I mean, oh, stop it.

BASH: No.

BLANCHE: Oh, you got to stop it with that. You are not being a real person. Come on, man.

BASH: Why are you yelling at me? Oh, come on, man.

BLANCHE: That is crazy.

BASH: It is not crazy.

BLANCHE: Wait. Hold on one second. Hold on one second. Wait, wait, wait. Stop, stop, stop.

BASH: I would have said that before January 6.

BLANCHE: You asked a question. Let me answer it.

BASH: No.

BLANCHE: Hold on. You set me up. You set me up with the following question.

BASH: OK.

BLANCHE: Because the president, because the Department of Justice is concerned that there is an absolute fraud happening in Alaska, and he wants to do something about it, you're saying, Mr. Attorney General, because the president of the United States wants to stop a fraud and confusion...

BASH: This is a president that has a history...

BLANCHE: ... is he going to do something crazy?

That is not -- that is not a real question.

BASH: I wish it wasn't.

BLANCHE: That is not a real question. I'm sorry.

BASH: I wish it wasn't.

BLANCHE: Well, if you're in luck then, because it's not. It's not.

BASH: But if you're laying the groundwork for the president to try to overturn an election that he doesn't like, there is...

(CROSSTALK)

BLANCHE: We're not laying any groundwork for the president to do that. BASH: OK.

BLANCHE: So your premise, your question is not true.

What I said, -- and so if you -- so you have to listen to what I say, or it's not a fair conversation. What I said is, the groundwork that we are laying is for Alaska, for the state of Alaska, if it becomes an issue after the election, will have the ability to determine whether there was confusion that violates the law in determining who the senator should be.

That is not Donald J. Trump. That is not our president.

BASH: Yes.

I have your complaint right here. You said: "To guard against a danger, it is vital that defendants not certify any election results that may be impacted by voter confusion."

You're putting into the ether -- into a complaint into a lawsuit to potential to not certify.

BLANCHE: Read the rest of the complaint. That's not where it ends.

BASH: I read the whole thing.

BLANCHE: That's not where it ends. It's -- that is not the whole thing.

What the rest of that paragraph says and what the rest of -- the relief that we are seeking is not to not certify. It's to not certify if the law is broken. So, if the law is broken -- and that's for Alaskan and the Alaskan court system to determine. If the law is broken, then any state should not certify. I think we can all agree with that.

BASH: Yes. And, again, the Alaska Supreme Court, which, by way of the Constitution, the first part of it says that the states should decide.

BLANCHE: Right, but not the second part. Go ahead.

BASH: Should decide. And the courts are -- and the courts are going to determine whether your lawsuit using a law that is on the book, passed by Congress, is going to determine.

But my fundamental question has been, given where we are, and given the fact that the polls show that the president is -- his party is potentially not going to do very well, if that is what is underlying what is going on in Alaska. And I don't think it's an unfair question to ask that, given what we saw after the 2020 election.

BLANCHE: But here -- but so I just fundamentally disagree with you.

The conversation that you and I have been having for the past 10 minutes has nothing to do with the fact that Alaskans, as not found by President Trump, Alaskans are going to go to the ballots potentially confused, OK, which is not something that's allowed to happen in this country.

So, instead of focusing on how we can address that and how we can remedy that, you're talking about January 6, OK? And that's so embarrassing to this network that that's what you're talking about.

BASH: Come on.

BLANCHE: The real conversation should be, why in a -- why in Alaska -- oh, come on. I mean, why in Alaska? Why in Alaska?

BASH: No, because if people are stirred up..

BLANCHE: There's literally confusion.

BASH: Yes.

BLANCHE: And then you cite polls. I mean, this isn't a conversation about polls.

It's not a conversation about January 6.

BASH: It's a conversation about an election that we are about to have.

BLANCHE: This a conversation about what's happening in Alaska right now.

BASH: It's a conversation that we are about to have.

BLANCHE: Right. In Alaska is what you're talking about.

BASH: In Alaska. And the...

BLANCHE: And you haven't once uttered the fact that there's no -- there's no dispute that this candidate's on the ballot to confuse voters.

You won't even concede that basic premise that the head of elections has already conceded.

BASH: I'm not arguing that. I am just saying that this was litigated in the Alaska courts, went all the way up to the Supreme Court.

BLANCHE: Unless federal law is violated, unless federal law is violated. And, by the way, the Alaskan Supreme Court explicitly didn't consider federal law. That wasn't before them.

[09:20:02]

And so we are not doing anything improper. We're not doing anything we're not allowed to do. And we have to let the process play out. But I do think it's important for the American people to understand that we are not, President Trump is not trying to take over a state election in any way, shape, or form.

What we're trying to do is make it -- make it clear that if it is obvious after the election that confusion led to an improper and illegal result, that the Alaskan system should be able to address that.

BASH: We are going to all be waiting to see how the federal courts rule on your complaint.

I appreciate you coming here this morning, Mr. Attorney General.

BLANCHE: Thank you. It was good to be here.

BASH: Up next: If Democrats win next week, do they have a plan to show voters they can actually lead ahead of a big election? I asked Governor Josh Shapiro about that and his criticism of the vice president.

And about last night. Former President Obama has joined the chat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: He's got the White House looking like Saddam Hussein opened a Cheesecake Factory.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:14]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

The path to a Democratic House majority runs through Pennsylvania. That's the argument from incumbent Governor Josh Shapiro, who's hitting the road and launching a new super PAC aimed at flipping four Republican-held seats in Pennsylvania. A clean sweep and a big reelection win in November would be a major feather in his cap as the political world turns to 2028.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Welcome back to the commonwealth.

BASH: It's great to be here.

We are in Northwest Pennsylvania, Crawford County. This is an area President Trump won by 40 percentage points just two years ago.

And four years ago, you lost by 30 points. This is very Republican territory. Why are you here and what's your message to voters here? What's the top three things that you would do if you get another four years?

SHAPIRO: Well, first off, I know it's hard to be a Democrat in these parts, and it's important that they know I got their backs, and I so appreciate that they have mine. I'm here today, though, not just to talk to Democrats, but a whole lot

of Republicans who may have made a different choice than I did in the last few presidential elections, but who are also hurting, who are experiencing the same pain as all Pennsylvanians because of Trump's chaos and cruelty and corruption, the war in Iran, the tariffs, which has added about $3,100 in cost to the average Pennsylvania family.

I think a lot of them are reassessing our politics today. And I want them to know that they have got a governor who's got their backs.

BASH: What are the top three things you will do if you get another four years?

SHAPIRO: Raise wages. It's time to raise the minimum wage in Pennsylvania. Republicans have blocked that for the last 15 years. It's one of the reasons I'm working so hard to flip our state Senate for the first time since 1992.

We have got to continue to work hard to create more jobs, particularly in our agriculture sector. I want to make sure we codify abortion rights in our state constitution, since the federal government has taken it away. And I want to make sure that we do something really big and bold on housing. And I have got a big plan to be able to create or to build more housing here in the commonwealth and repair our aging housing fleet.

There's probably 100 things I want to do, but those are some of the initial things we will do if I can win a trifecta here in Pennsylvania.

BASH: I want to ask about what the Justice Department is doing as we get closer to the election. They're already making claims about large numbers of people trying to vote illegally.

There is no evidence that that is happening...

SHAPIRO: Correct.

BASH: ... on a widespread level at all.

SHAPIRO: I appreciate you saying that.

BASH: But the DOJ did say Friday that nine non-U.S. citizens right here in Pennsylvania were charged with illegally voting. Will that help the administration make its case?

SHAPIRO: No. No, I mean, look, first off, we have assisted in those investigations. We don't want anyone who's ineligible...

BASH: You're working with the DOJ.

SHAPIRO: Well, what we have done is to make sure that our voter rolls contain legal, eligible voters. We do not want people who are not legal, eligible voters casting a ballot.

And you cited a handful or so, maybe a little more than a handful. Those are examples of people who -- by the way, some cases are Democrats, some cases are Republicans, and some cases were voting for one candidate or another. This wasn't sort of a partisan effort, but it's something that has to be corrected.

I don't want people who are ineligible voting in our elections, period.

BASH: The DOJ is increasing pressure on California over claims about voter rolls where they say there are problems. They have targeted Pennsylvania in the past beyond what we were just talking about.

If you hear from DOJ about issues that they say they see as Election Day draws even closer, what will you do? What's your posture?

SHAPIRO: Well, here's the thing. I don't deal in conspiracy theories, which is most of the B.S. that we get from the Trump administration.

And so I will not respond to conspiracy theories. If someone has tangible evidence that there is someone who's not eligible to vote, we want to work with them on that, because we want to make sure that only eligible voters vote.

I would remind you, Dana, in 2020, when Donald Trump tried to overturn the election here in Pennsylvania, I was the attorney general. He sued me 43 times, and he made up all kinds of false claims. And he lost every one of those cases. And I won every single one of them. And we had a free and fair, safe and secure election.

We are prepared in Pennsylvania to once again respect the will of the people. They're going to choose sometimes Republicans. They're going to choose sometimes Democrats. We're going to respect the will of the people, and we will not let the federal government interfere with one's ability to vote.

[09:30:04]

When they tried to take away -- pardon me. When they tried to take away the ability of Pennsylvanians to vote by mail recently, I went to court and won and protected that right. So, whether you vote by mail or you vote in person on November 3, we're going to protect your access to the ballot.

BASH: Because Todd Blanche, the attorney general, is already talking about the possibility of a doomsday scenario that would require DOJ action.

SHAPIRO: Well, look, I didn't see the attorney general's comments. I have seen the president's comments, who is constantly lying about not just elections here in Pennsylvania, but all across the country, lies about voting by mail, and then votes by mail himself, is a complete hypocrite, obviously.

And I think the president probably has a sense of his own unpopularity and a sense of where the electorate seems to be, and he wants to do everything he can to try and silence the voices of the people of Pennsylvania and silence the voices of Americans. And I won't let him do that.

BASH: In your debate with your Republican opponent, you said you're open to some voter I.D. laws. What would that look like? For example, there are some proposals to have a national I.D. card, which would be free for everybody, to make clear that you are an American citizen.

SHAPIRO: Well, first off, that wasn't news. I have said this for years and years and years.

BASH: But can you be specific?

SHAPIRO: I can. I have said this for years.

What I have also said is, I will not allow conspiracy theories to dictate these terms. If people are trying to rely on conspiracy theories to set up a barrier of entry for eligible voters, making it harder for them to vote, I won't sign that.

But if there's an opportunity to work together in a way that focuses on enfranchisement, not disenfranchisement, I would work on that. If everyone had access to, say some kind of state I.D. card that allowed them to have access to the polls under a system where no one would be left out if they forgot their I.D. one day -- perhaps there would be a backup way to demonstrate who they were -- we'd be open to that.

BASH: We are less than 20 miles from Ohio. We're so far up north and west here in Pennsylvania. The Republican candidate for governor, Vivek Ramaswamy, is under fire for putting the estranged mother of his Democratic opponent in a TV ad, despite claims that she had and some issues went through the courts about childhood sexual abuse.

President Trump and Vice President Vance have defended it. The vice president even admonished Republicans for calling Ramaswamy out on it. You're shaking your head.

SHAPIRO: You know, I have prosecuted dozens of people for sexual abuse.

And the cases where they are familial, you have a parent, a stepparent, abusing their own child are maybe the ones that upset me the most, the ones that would keep me up at night as we were going through those cases. Those are so unbelievably painful.

The idea that a guy who wants to run for governor would weaponize that, that the vice president of the United States, who does this phony preacher nonsense about morality every day, would double down and say, not only is it an acceptable ad, keep running it and admonish Republicans like Mike DeWine who actually had the courage to speak out and call it out, I think it just speaks to how profoundly and pathetically weak of a human being J.D. Vance is.

And it speaks to the character, frankly, lack thereof, of Ramaswamy to attack a victim like that, to attack a victim and take the side of the perpetrator, the enabler of that abuse. It's disgusting.

And what I'm hearing more and more from Republicans, along with Democrats, independents, is they're just tired of this. They're tired of the politics that Trump and Vance practice. And remember, Ramaswamy, he really is just a product of that Trump/Vance politics of the lowest common denominator.

I think you're going to see Americans of all stripes, Democrat and Republican, come out in states all across our country and reject that.

BASH: I have noticed some of your campaign aides wearing a 48 pin.

SHAPIRO: I'm the 48th governor of Pennsylvania.

BASH: It has nothing to do with...

(CROSSTALK)

SHAPIRO: Come on, don't go there. No, they have been wearing that for years. I'm proud to be the 48th governor of this great commonwealth.

BASH: Are you going to finish out your term if you win?

SHAPIRO: Listen, the only thing I'm focused on -- I'm going to give you the same answer I have given you multiple times -- is this race for governor, is winning a trifecta in Harrisburg so I can raise wages, codify abortion rights in Pennsylvania.

And I'm doing my part, as you know, to win our four competitive congressional races here in Pennsylvania, where, if we flip those four, we will deliver a majority to the Democrats in the House of Representatives, make Hakeem Jeffries the speaker of the House, and begin to be a real check on the chaos, cruelty, and corruption of Donald Trump.

[09:35:13]

I have got a lot of responsibilities here, and that's all I'm thinking about.

BASH: OK. That wasn't a yes for four years.

SHAPIRO: That was my answer.

BASH: Governor, thanks for your time.

SHAPIRO: Great to be with you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: She endorsed Abdul El-Sayed after a contentious Democratic primary against him. Does she think he's done the work he needs to do to unite the party and win the race?

Congresswoman Haley Stevens, along with former GOP Chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel, are here to talk about the race for Michigan and more with our panel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:40:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, look, the guy in Michigan's pretty bad too, I must say, Mohamed, as I call him.

OBAMA: They will use division, and they may even use your name or your faith to somehow suggest that you are dangerous and less than trustworthy and less patriotic and less American than they are. We have seen this movie before.

(CHEERING)

OBAMA: I starred in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back.

My wonderful panel is here, including two Michiganders, Ronna Romney McDaniel and Haley Stevens, who just came off the -- not just the campaign trail, the campaign, the ballot box, all of it.

I know that you obviously -- as I mentioned, you endorsed Abdul El- Sayed, your former Democratic opponent, quickly after the race was over for the primary.

REP. HALEY STEVENS (D-MI): Yes. And we're both committed to saying, hey, we're going to be with the nominee no matter who wins the primary.

BASH: Right.

STEVENS: It was a close primary. Unity's important. The process is important.

BASH: But you haven't campaigned alongside him. Why?

STEVENS: Well, look, my specialty is House races. So, a lot of the House candidates in Michigan have been reaching out to me. Christina Hines in Michigan's open 10th District -- this is the Macomb County seat. Sean McCann in Kalamazoo, running very competitively, might oust a longtime incumbent.

So I have been on the horn for those guys, Callie Barr up in Michigan's First Congressional District, also within the margin of error. That's what I do is, I win House races. And there's -- yes, there's a lot at stake, a lot on the line, but I'm fired up for Democrats in Michigan.

BASH: Do you think that El-Sayed has done what he needs to do to reach out to the voters who came out for you, particularly in the black community and in the Jewish community in Michigan?

STEVENS: Well, look, he's been campaigning all over the state. We saw him run an energizing primary. He won the primary. He's decided to go up North Michigan. I know he was Wayne County health director.

And you can also see, though, to be fair, Mike Rogers is also campaigning rigorously in Detroit. I mean, every time you turn around, the guy's in Detroit. And so I had said to the coordinated campaign, I'm like, hey, give a speech in the black community, right? I mean, make a note of recognition for some of the pain, some of the struggles, the things that folks are going through.

I have legislation for black-owned businesses. You know, we want to see investment on Main Street, and that's a thing that people are talking about. But, yes, I mean, that didn't happen. That speech hasn't happened. But there's been other rallies and events.

And, look, I'm not Barack Obama. That was pretty cool to see him in Detroit, and he won Michigan twice, OK? We know Trump did too. But he also lost it once.

BASH: I want to get everybody else in. I just want to -- you're still fully behind Abdul El-Sayed?

STEVENS: Look, I'm on the Democratic ticket. I can't say that I agree with everything that's gone on. I wish that first debate had been more about that rubber stamp for Trump, because we have got a lot of chaos in Michigan. I don't want to debate who's the enemy of the United States. It's very clear that Iran is.

I didn't run my campaign on foreign policy issues, but that was litigated in my primary. I'm not looking to be front and center right now. I'm looking to be on the team to support my next governor, Jocelyn Benson, and, frankly, these great Democrats who are working their tails off who are going to make Hakeem Jeffries the first black speaker of the House.

BASH: You didn't mention Abdul El-Sayed in that last answer.

STEVENS: Well, look, I would just say, you had asked me if I'm still on the team. I'm on the team.

RONNA MCDANIEL, FORMER CHAIR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I mean, she's so gracious.

(LAUGHTER)

MCDANIEL: And I think Haley Stevens ran a great campaign and almost won, even though the polling showed that Abdul El-Sayed was going to win by double digits. And I don't think he's done enough to reach out to the black community or the Jewish community.

And that's going to hurt him in -- coming into the final stretch of this election. The group that he is trying to reach out to, though, right now, are Trump voters. His final ad as he brings Obama in is with Tucker Carlson. I think that's an interesting opposite that he's bringing into our state.

But Mike Rogers has coalesced Democrats for Rogers, Jewish voters for Rogers. We have a huge vibrant Jewish community in Michigan, and he's bringing people together, and I just don't see Sayed doing that. And he should be having you on the campaign trail. I wonder if he's even asked you.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can I weigh in here?

BASH: Has he asked you?

STEVENS: You know, look, they were up north with AOC. And she's never endorsed me in a primary. That was -- I try and tell them, the primary's over. We got to be campaigning against the guy who is going to rubber-stamp Trump. We're not necessarily seeing that at every single turn.

But that's what a lot of voters are going to the polls with in mind.

[09:45:02]

ALLISON: Yes, I sat down with Abdul a week or so ago explicitly about the black community.

And I asked him, and he did acknowledge the tension. Like, this tension did not just happen because you ran against him and you were able to get more black support than he was in the primary. It's been generational between Muslims and Arabs in Dearborn and black people in Detroit.

And the thing he said to me was that like: I have been in Detroit my whole career. I have been there. I have been engaging with the community. Where have these people been before they wanted black people's votes?

And so I thought it was actually a compelling thing. Black folks often feel like the Democratic Party takes us for granted. But he's like: I have been here. And so now that I have done this work, I want to lead and be in community with you.

Has his campaign done enough? We will know in nine days. But I do think he is trying to do outreach to the community. I also think he has a different way of building this coalition that I think is interesting. He is not really leaning into that identity politics. He's being pulled into it about him being the other, the Muslim.

He's like: I'm a Michigander.

He was at the Michigan -- University of Michigan game yesterday talking to young people. He's trying to pull a different coalition together than maybe a traditional Democrat might.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, so one thing I do like about the Michigan race is this different coalition thing, insofar as you have a Republican reaching out to traditionally Democratic voters, and you have a Democrat reaching out in some ways -- if the Tucker Carlson ad is -- to some Republican voters.

And I like this -- anything that shatters the Republican equals right wing, Democrat equals left wing, and that the ideologies overlap perfectly over the party, I think anything that dissolves that is probably good for the country.

On the flip side, I really didn't like the spin that Barack Obama put on what Sayed is doing. Sayed, if you watch the Bret Baier interview, interviews additionally you and other people at CNN, he is so thin- skinned about these questions about the Muslim Brotherhood that at some point it actually sounds like, if you ask him a question about the Muslim Brotherhood, he wants to make it sound like you're ask -- you're questioning his faith.

And adherence or support for the Muslim Brotherhood is not synonymous with Islam. And if a right-winger said, if you're Muslim, you support a terrorist organization, that would be considered bigoted. But that's the upshot of his position, which is that any questions about his relationship to the Muslim Brotherhood are questions about his faith, and he falls back on this Islamophobia and First Amendment stuff.

It's a perfectly legitimate thing to ask him about a public letter that he signed. And he's so defensive and thin-skinned, and I don't think it's because he's a Muslim. I don't think it's because of anything other than his own sort of ornery arrogance about how he campaigns.

MCDANIEL: Can I just add, Mike Rogers has the perfect answer for that, which is I wore the uniform of the United States of America so that you can pray the way you want to pray. It's not about the way you pray. It's the way you think.

Michigan is a very diverse state. We have Jewish voters. We have Chaldean. We have Muslim. We have all different faiths.

BASH: Yes.

MCDANIEL: And I do not like this anti-Muslim bent that Abdul keeps pushing, because that's not who our state is.

BASH: Can we just also pick your brain on the whole state of the race beyond Michigan?

MCDANIEL: Yes.

BASH: Because you were RNC chair for a very long time. What's it going to look like after the election?

MCDANIEL: And I live in Michigan. I never left.

BASH: Yes, big picture.

MCDANIEL: So, listen, I think Mike Rogers is going to win this race. That's how I feel.

BASH: And what about the whole map?

MCDANIEL: I think it looks like the House is probably going to go to Democrats. That's just what I'm seeing in external polls. I think Republicans keep the Senate. I think where they're fighting in these red states, in those states, independents lean Republican, and I think Republicans keep the Senate.

BASH: One of those red states, of course, where Democrats are playing hard is in Texas. You talked to James Talarico this week. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES TALARICO (D), TEXAS SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I have been hearing about this unprecedented attack on black political power...

ALLISON: Yes.

TALARICO: ... this racist redistricting map here in Texas that is diluting the voting power of black and brown Texans. And I hope that I am the deciding vote to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act at the federal level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLISON: Yes, he kind of skyrocketed onto national politics when he left Texas to break quorum when they tried to redistrict in Texas.

I got to tell you, this fight around gerrymandering, not just with black voters, with Latino voters in Texas, is -- it animated the crowd yesterday. And I also ran into a black woman who you would have thought would have been in the 92 percent for Kamala Harris.

She told me, in Texas, she has never -- she hasn't voted since 2008. college-educated, a teacher. She said she didn't feel like her vote has mattered in Texas. I'm hearing it all through the South. I do think some races are more in play than you might think in this moment.

BASH: Did the gerrymandering and even before that, this -- or as related to that, the Supreme Court decision, are you worried about how that's going to backfire or if it will backfire?

GOLDBERG: Well, I have no -- I have no team here. So I do think the gerrymandering thing was a bad move.

[09:50:02]

And it looks like it's going to be a dummymander. And I just think breaking the decade-long -- the once-a-decade tradition unleashed all sorts of animal spirits that they didn't anticipate because Trump didn't think any of this through.

BASH: You have no team. I should have said, do you think, not are you worried? Because you're not worried.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Final thought.

STEVENS: Well, look, I'm excited about Texas and Mississippi.

ALLISON: Yes, Scott. STEVENS: Because I think Scott Colom is tapping into that racial gerrymandering.

ALLISON: Exactly.

BASH: Well, I'm so glad you mentioned that. Thank you all, because, up next: Could a Democrat actually win in Mississippi? The president heads there tomorrow.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: We will get into that next.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:16]

BASH: Can Democrats pull off a Mississippi miracle? It's an uphill battle.

Democrat Scott Colom is trying to topple incumbent Republican Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith in a state that voted for President Trump by 23 points just two years ago. It hasn't sent a Democrat to the Senate in nearly four decades or elected a black senator since Reconstruction.

All to say, it is a long shot. But Republicans aren't taking any chances. President Trump is heading there tomorrow to try to get Hyde- Smith across the finish line.

Thank you so much for joining us this Sunday.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up next.