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CNN Live Sunday

A Stronger European Case Against Capital Punishment in Light of the FBI's Mistake

Aired May 13, 2001 - 18:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
STEPHEN FRAZIER, CNN ANCHOR: A date with death delayed once, but probably not again. That is the word from Attorney General John Ashcroft regarding his decision Friday to delay by one month the execution of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. Joining us in Oklahoma City with the latest on that and other developments today, CNN national correspondent Martin Savidge.

Marty, good to see you again.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Stephen. U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft says essentially the extension of the deadline of the execution of Timothy McVeigh was a one-time event. He says even if the defense attorneys for McVeigh come to him asking for more time to review the documents that were revealed by the FBI, he will not go along with that. He made those comments in an article before the Sunday Oklahoma newspaper here. He said -- quote -- "We feel that ample time has been provided, and I have no intention of further extending the deadline."

Meanwhile, Robert Nigh -- he is one of the attorneys for Timothy McVeigh, he was on CNN's late edition today -- Wolf Blitzer asked him if all of these recent developments could lead to a new trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT NIGH, MCVEIGH'S ATTORNEY: Absolutely, those are possibilities. And quite frankly in this case, I would suggest to you that anything is possible. A week ago nobody would have expected that anything was going to happen other than Mr. McVeigh's execution on May 16th. This revelation, at literally the 12th, hour makes it clear that anything can happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: The prospect a new trial is something that is very much at the top of concern for many people here in Oklahoma City. They are fearful now that Timothy McVeigh may use this opportunity to try to inflict more pain on this city, something they say they've already had enough of.

Reporting live, Martin Savidge, CNN, Oklahoma City.

FRAZIER: Martin, thank you. Many countries oppose the death penalty, and now for an international sense of the McVeigh case, let's turn to Adriane Wooldridge, who is Washington correspondent for "The Economist" magazine.

Mr. Wooldridge, thank you for joining us on a Sunday.

ADRIANE WOOLDRIDGE, CORRESPONDENT, "THE ECONOMIST": Thank you.

FRAZIER: It's interesting what you write, that there's a strong anti-American sentiment for this very reason.

WOOLDRIDGE: I there is a great deal of hostility to America over the death penalty. In particular, there's a great deal of hostility to President Bush. On of the first things people knew in Europe about President Bush was that he's a serial executioner. And since his election, I think that's fueled a lot of the growing anti-American sentiment around --- particularly in Europe.

FRAZIER: How would you say European governments or populations would handle a case such as this?

WOOLDRIDGE: Well, I think it would test them. I think it would test them very severely, because it's such a horrendous case. But according to the European Convention of Human Rights, the death penalty is not a bound threat in the European Union. So I don't think they'd use it, but I think there'd be a great deal of popular support for it, actually. But it wouldn't be used.

FRAZIER: Is there a belief in much of Europe, which you're familiar with, that Americans are monolithic in their support for the death penalty?

WOOLDRIDGE: Well, I think there is that belief. I think people think that it's a very widely popular thing in this country, and I think that's not true. I think Americans are more nuanced and much more conflicted about the death penalty. Support for the death penalty is actually going down, from a high of about 80 percent being in favor in the mid-'90s to now, probably about 65 percent in favor.

FRAZIER: Would you say this is one of the cases in which popular sentiment is diverging now? Europe is growing apart in some ways from the United States.

WOOLDRIDGE: I think that's true in a whole series of things: over attitudes to things like genetically modified food, over attitudes to Mr. Bush's suggestion for a nuclear weapon -- a missile shield, and certainly over the death penalty. There's a real conflict of opinions.

FRAZIER: And what about the way the FBI actually handled the case?

WOOLDRIDGE: I found it astonishing. I think again this will really strengthen Europe's sentiment against the death penalty. Because it seems to me, and I think, strikes many people in Europe, that if you can't get it right in such a high-profile case in which you're using the very track troops of the federal government, how can you be sure you're going to get it right in some much smaller, much less high-profile case, with just local state sheriffs?

FRAZIER: So when you're proposing articles for your editors in London, is this a frequent topic for you?

WOOLDRIDGE: It has been a frequent topic. We had a cover article about it a few months ago as well when there was mounting evidence coming up that the process simply isn't working -- that there are far too many people who are being put on death row who are not guilty, or where the courts have not sufficiently examined the evidence. And I think there's a huge amount of evidence, particularly from Texas, of just very, very weak legal defenses being made of people, particularly -- obviously, poor people, particularly minorities.

So I think that the fact that the system, the process is broken -- I think there are many moral arguments against the death penalty, but there's also a much bigger practical argument. It seems that the system is making a mistake. And if you make a mistake and you execute the wrong person, that is a horrendous crime for the state to commit.

FRAZIER: Indeed. Now, earlier in your career you wrote a book about globalization, which makes us all sound like we're part of one large community. This would seem to hinder that.

WOOLDRIDGE: I think that in many ways we are diverging, culturally. I mean, it's extraordinary that you can phone people up, you can connect with people on the Internet very much more easily. But in all sorts of fundamental cultural ways, I think we may be diverging. Europe and the United States may be diverging.

The one thing, in some ways, that held together these continents was the common alliance against the Soviet tyranny, against communism, and that glue has been removed. And I think that is creating grounds for which there -- it could be many more tensions over cultural things, over things as fundamental as what one eats or what one does to punish the most horrendous criminals.

FRAZIER: Well, in light of the fact that many Americans believe this culture sprang from Europe initially, those are fascinating insights. Adriane Wooldridge, thank you for joining us this afternoon.

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