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CNN Live Sunday
Does World War II Monument Belong on Mall?
Aired May 27, 2001 - 17:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
STEPHEN FRAZIER, CNN ANCHOR: Construction could soon begin on a memorial honoring those Americans who fought and those who died during the second World War. It has been a long battle for this monument because supporters say the memorial is long overdue, but critics argue its location will mar the beauty of the Washington Mall.
More on this controversy, now, from CNN's Bruce Morton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They had a bald eagle at the groundbreaking last fall. They had the president of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This memorial is built not only for the children whose grandparents served in the war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORTON: Trouble is, it wasn't built. They never actually broke any ground. Congress approved a World War II memorial back in 1993. Everyone is for the idea. Critics say the one planned is too big, and will mar the sweep of the Mall between the Washington and Lincoln monuments.
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), D.C. DELEGATE: Anyone who loves the city and admires the uniqueness of Washington and the Mall could not possibly want the particular memorial that will go up.
MORTON: Maybe. But Monday night, the Senate unanimously approved construction, waiving more hearings and nullifying a lawsuit critics have brought.
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: It indeed is a symbol of the sacrifices of the entire generation, not only those who went abroad to the battlefields, but those here at home and their families.
MORTON: And Tuesday, the House, noting that the controversy over the memorial has lasted longer than the war, agreed.
REP. IKE SKELTON (D), MISSOURI: This bill puts an end to the discussion, the disagreements, and after 22 public hearings on its site and design, something needs to be done.
REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: The only reason it is not being constructed is, in fact, a technicality.
MORTON: And the veterans, of course, are getting older.
REP. MARCY KAPTUR (D), OHIO: Let us remember the significance of what these greatest Americans, greatest generation of Americans did for the freedom of humankind. Let us build this memorial in a timely way.
MORTON: Approval came quickly.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: So many as are in favor, say "aye."
CONGRESS: Aye.
RYAN: Those opposed "no." In the opinion of the chair, two- thirds of those present having voted in the affirmative, the rules are suspended. The Senate amendment is agreed to.
MORTON: Critics, including some veterans, still object.
GEORGE IDELSON, WORLD WAR II VETERAN: Personally, I don't think that America owes me a memorial. What I do think that Congress owes me is respect for the democracy for which I fought. And I am deeply offended by this riding roughshod over due process.
MORTON: Critics say they'll fight on.
JUDY SCOTT FELDMAN, NATIONAL COALITION TO SAVE OUR MALL: We go back to the courts. We don't believe that in our American system of government, where we have a legislative, executive and a judiciary, that the Congress can simply usurp the authority of the judiciary.
MORTON: Still, the legislation has now passed both House and Senate, and President Bush says he supports it. Construction could begin within two months.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRAZIER: We're going to spend a little more time on this debate now, and joining us to help with that are World War II veteran George Idelson, whom you just saw in Bruce Morton's report. Mr. Idelson supports the idea of a monument, but not without proper debate by Congress. Also with us is James Goldsmith, senior vice commander in chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. The group supports the building of the monument.
Gentlemen, welcome to you both.
Mr. Idelson, let me ask you, because you had a comment there in Bruce's story: What exactly was the roughshod running that you cited in your speech before those microphones?
IDELSON: Well, it has a lot to do with the undemocratic way that this site was chosen. They pretty much did their best to keep public input out. And, as a matter of fact, there was a legal challenge as to whether or not the National Capital Planning Commission was duly constituted at the time it made several of its votes. Even the Justice Department said there was reason to take a look at that.
FRAZIER: Now, what has...
(CROSSTALK)
FRAZIER: Oh, I'm sorry; go ahead and finish, I'll...
IDELSON: Well, my objection is that the Congress just ran roughshod over that and just -- you know, this is what the law says -- you sort of introduced it -- the decision to locate the memorial at the Rainbow Pool site shall not be subject to judicial review. This is the Congress telling the courts that they can't even look at this case.
FRAZIER: And there was a lawsuit pending, which is now, basically, quashed by that congressional action?
IDELSON: So it would seem, but who knows.
FRAZIER: Commander Goldsmith, let me ask you about the effort here. You pointed out that there were years of public hearings on this.
JAMES GOLDSMITH, VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS: Twenty-two public hearings over it since 1995, with everybody having an opportunity to voice their views. This is the right thing to do at the right time, and the memorial is at the right place.
And to my counterpart, whether he likes the terminology, he's an icon and he's a hero; and I would think that the mall would be the perfect place for it, and I would hope that everybody that views that World War II monument -- when they think about Pearl Harbor Day, they think about the Battle of the Bulge, they think about Hiroshima at the end of the war, that we're reminded constantly that peace is not -- freedom is not free.
IDELSON: I think this is a desecration, frankly, of the historical purpose of the Mall, which is meant to be America's meeting place. This is where Martin Luther King spoke; and this was where, in 1976 during the bicentennial, hundreds of thousands of people came down. There was wall-to-wall people from monument to monument, and brought a divided country together. I remember it still, it was one of most memorable moments of my life.
FRAZIER: Do you think the architecture that is planned would break up the Mall so that that kind of gathering could not take place again?
IDELSON: Well, apparently the designers think some too. That's why they're sinking it into the ground, so to make it less obtrusive.
But there is a right place for this, and that's just 100 yards off to the right. There's a magnificent site; it's called Constitution Gardens. It was the original site, before they quietly, secretly moved it. And it's gorgeous. It overlooks a manmade lake. Between that little rise and that lake, there is more room -- there is room for ten monuments. And it's a secluded site; it's absolutely marvelous.
FRAZIER: Now, commander, do you think there's room enough for the design as it's currently planned at that location?
GOLDSMITH: Yes, it is. And there's the innuendoes that they're going to concrete seven acres. That's not true.
You know, the civic groups of this country, the schoolchildren, with their pennies have raised over $170 million. We've put $7 million into this thing. It's time that we honor those who saved, not only this country, but the world, and to recognize their deeds.
I can't see where we'd put it any other place but on the Mall to reflect what this country went through and what the world went through. It changed -- the most dramatic event of 20th century should certainly be recognized where people can see it every day; every day.
IDELSON: Well, I certainly appreciate the fact that you're concerned. And I'm not going to see this before I die. I'll make a deal with you: If you reconsider this, I'll promise to stay alive until it's up.
GOLDSMITH: And I'm sure that you will be around. You know, George, I want to compliment you and congratulate you and thank you for what you did back in World War II. And you most have come out of the Army -- out of the service and became an activist, because you certainly have not set back and been idle. And I certainly respect your opinion.
This is what you fought a war for, to set there and have the debates that we're having right now. And I thank all the World War II veterans for all they did back there, and what they do today on a daily basis.
FRAZIER: It must give you pause though, commander, to know that a man who was decorated for his actions during the war, a man as brave as Mr. Idelson, a squad leader and a sergeant, has offered to return the medals that he was awarded for his service in order to draw attention to this debate.
GOLDSMITH: And I hope that George does to no do that. I hope he reconsiders, because that's not going to make that Mall go up any faster, whether -- it's not going to stop the process. Our process -- and we have a process in this country -- the minority shall be heard and their opinions voiced, but the majority, after debate, will be the ruling. And this is what's done.
And George, I certainly hope that you don't return them ribbons. You deserve them ribbons, and this country thanks you daily; I thank you daily for what you did day in and day out. I can't imagine what you went through; I'm not a combat soldier; I don't pretend to be. And I would hope that you would seriously reconsider that, George.
IDELSON: Well, I thank you for that.
But, you know, this is not the design that Willie and Joe, those two characters that kept us laughing in the foxhole, would have wanted. This is not the "Citizen Soldier." This is a monument that only a general could love. You know, maybe it belongs at Arlington Cemetery. I don't think it belongs on the Mall.
FRAZIER: Gentlemen, that's to have to be, I'm afraid, the final word, because we have run out of time. But I appreciate the comments from you both. Thank you both for joinings us, George Idelson, James Goldsmith, and have a happy Memorial Day or a significant Memorial Day -- it's not a celebration, is it.
IDELSON: Thank you very much.
GOLDSMITH: Thank you.
FRAZIER: Thank you both.
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