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CNN Live Sunday

Bin Laden Reportedly Spotted in an Afghan Mountain Hideout

Aired November 25, 2001 - 18:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: As the search for Osama bin Laden continues, there are reports that he may have been spotted in Tora Bora, that's a remote mountain hideout near Jalalabad, along the Pakistani border. For more on that and the other issues, we turn to CNN's military analyst and retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd. He is joining us from Washington. General Shepperd, good to have you join us. Thanks.

In Konduz, what's the state now, when you have these non-Afghan hard-core fighters who are still there but that the Northern Alliance controls parts of the city?

MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I'm reminded in war, Donna, that just when you think things are going well, they will turn not well. And that's exactly what happened today.

It looked like the surrender was going famously. Prisoners, even the foreign prisoners, if you will, being evacuated to an area west of Mazar-e Sharif, the old headquarters of Rashid Dostum. And then we have reports of a prison revolt breaking out, and all of a sudden, firefights, weapons, hidden weapons, firefights from the guards, and reports now that as many as several hundred people were killed.

Now, we'll have to sort all that out. There were early reports of a special forces soldier also losing his life. The Pentagon denies it. So, it just never ceases to amaze me in war, the ebb and flow of war, when you think you got everything nailed down, you don't. But it does look like Konduz is going to fall to the Northern Alliance, probably by tomorrow.

KELLEY: Let's talk about this possible sighting of Osama bin Laden, maybe near some of the caves in Tora Bora. Even in the "New York Times," these fighters who are accompanying him are described as experienced and suicidal. Tell us about the caves and tell us what you think is coming up.

SHEPPERD: You bet. Let me go to telestrator here, if I can, and show you where Tora Bora is located. First of all, Tora Bora is located southeast of Kabul and southwest of Jalalabad, which is near the boarder. It's about 35 miles southwest of Jalalabad in an area of caves that cross in an area known as the White Mountains, about four to five hour drive of Jalalabad. Well known hiding place, well known training place of Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda. Very sophisticated fortifications under the ground. Rumors that he's been seen there recently. Don't know if that's right or not.

Another area we've been talking about is area called Marouf, which is southeast of Kandahar. Same type of area with sophisticated caves, sophisticated hiding places. For sure, wherever bin Laden is, he will be surrounded by significant numbers of security forces. So we will be looking for action, we'll be looking for forces that protect him. We'll be looking for radio emissions, telephone calls, heat, anything that our sensors can pick up to say there's a lot of activity in this area.

Once we have an area under suspicion and think we have got it nailed it down, or even several areas, we will put a significant amount force in there.

KELLEY: Well, that's what I want to ask you about. What about that significant amount of force you're talking about? Is the force there, the strength there for a nasty, to-the-death fight?

SHEPPERD: The force is there and available to General Franks from all sorts. Now remember, the Northern Alliance says they want to do it, and that would probably be the preferred method to let them go in and do it. But General Franks says the force is available to him. What you won't do is you won't send a small team of special forces into a cave to find out if bin Laden is there. He's going to be well protected by a significant number. You're going to need a significant number to block the areas out, and then to go after him and the al Qaeda that surrounds him.

KELLEY: Let's talk about those caves for a minute, if we can, general. These caves apparently have been upgraded, maybe by some of the money that came in the '80s when they were fighting the Soviets, and it's where the rebels spent the winter there, so they have heat and all sorts of things. Tell us a little bit more about those.

SHEPPERD: Yeah, remember, we know a lot about those caves. We know a lot about them from the Soviets, and we also have had the CIA in there for a long time. We will buy information, we will get information from the prisoners. And we will have a group of sensors, all the way from humans on the ground all they way up to satellites in space looking for him. And when we find him, we've got things such as bunker busters, as well as the troops that we can send in to get him out.

So we have got all sorts of means. Once we use all of our sensors to find him, we have means to go in and get him. And of course, the Northern Alliance on the ground may do it for us.

KELLEY: Well, you know what, the Soviets -- there were some reports that said that the Soviets threw everything they could at those caves, but they didn't have what the U.S.-led forces have in precision guidance systems. Is that going to make a difference? Can that take those out? SHEPPERD: Donna, the key is two things. One, is our censors that provide us the intelligence and the ability to fuse those censors, not just into information, but where activity is concentrated. And then, we have the sophisticated, precision-guided weapons to hit what we're after.

The Soviets had neither of those things. And in addition, they were invading someone else's country, had no help. We are now having the country rise up, so we may very soon have an entire country looking for Osama bin Laden and his minions. That's totally different from what the Soviets faced.

KELLEY: All right, our CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd. Nice to have you join us again. Thank you.

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