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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Ali Jalali

Aired December 23, 2001 - 18:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. officials confirm to CNN that the CIA hired a group of Afghans to track Osama bin Laden in their country. Officials say the program started back in 1998 and was often successful at finding where bin Laden was or where he had been. But they say knowing where he would go next was often a problem. Officials would not say how many Afghans the CIA employed in this very secretive program.

Well, joining me from Washington right now with some unique insight into the hunt for Osama bin Laden is Ali Jalali. He is a former commander in the Afghan military, who fought against the Soviets, and is an author whose works include detailed books on Soviet and Afghan military tactics.

Good evening to you, and thank you very much for joining us Mr. Jalali.

ALI JALALI, FORMER AFGHAN MILITARY COMMANDER: Good evening. Good to be here.

LIN: Could to be with you. Can you tell us, what do you think? Do you think Osama bin Laden is still alive?

JALALI: Well, it's a possibility that he's alive; but it's also possible that he died during the bombing of his last stronghold in Tora Bora. So whether he is alive or he has died during these bombings -- it is needed to these area to be searched so that when -- make sure that he is either dead or alive. If he's alive, then it is necessary to go after him. Otherwise one would know what happened to him.

LIN: If he is still alive, do you think he is in Afghanistan, or do you believe several of these reports that have him fleeing across the border to Pakistan and escaping from there?

JALALI: Again, there's several possibilities. He might be still there in Afghanistan, or he has crossed the border and went to Pakistan. It is a question that can go either way.

LIN: Well, I imagine you're probably pretty familiar with the rough terrain and territory that the special ops troops and these Afghan opposition fighters are having to go through. When we talk about these opposition fighters going cave by cave through this network in Tora Bora, how long is it going to take before they either find him alive, or whether Osama bin Laden is actually dead?

JALALI: Obviously, it is a very challenging situation. You know, going from cave to cave is not an easy task. And at the same, it is something which is needed at this stage.

So, therefore, it is not now -- the war is in a totally different stage, different phase of war. It is not fighting, but searching. So, therefore, I think there are several hundred caves. One cannot go to search all these caves at once or the same time, so therefore it should be privatized (ph).

You know, there are some caves that one will assume that nobody can survive there for a long time, or hide there. So, therefore, there are certain areas probably should be identified where it is likely that a remnant of al Qaeda, or even Osama bin Laden, would be hiding.

But it is also, you know, important to note that many caves are not suitable for occupants to survive because of cold and starvation. So eventually the search will be, you know, limited to certain areas.

LIN: I was talking with an intelligence official about whether Osama bin Laden was dead or alive, whether the United States would ever track him down. And the theory is that yes, probably the United States will find him, not anytime soon, maybe in the next six months. And likely, if he is killed, he might even be killed by one of his own men because of a sense of betrayal that he had let the cause down.

Do you have any theories on this?

JALALI: Well, it's a possibility. I think one can think about several scenarios in this case. However, if he's still alive with his high profile, I don't think he will be able to hide himself for a long time.

LIN: Well how much support do you think he has, still, inside the country -- men who might be able to get him food, supplies, in that cave network.

JALALI: Well, in Afghanistan he never was very popular. You know, his audience was not Afghanistan, it was beyond Afghanistan. He did not inspire Afghans to fight for him. I think mostly he inspired people outside Afghanistan, in other countries.

So, therefore, he does not have, you know, much support inside -- envoys much support inside Afghanistan. And even if he is alive there, I don't -- he's not a person that people will go and support.

LIN: What do you make of this story in today's "Washington Post" that the CIA had hired Afghans to track bin Laden as early as 1998 which, of course, raises the question of whether that operation is still continuing, and how effective it might be.

JALALI: Well, intelligence is always part of any operations -- military operations. So without intelligence, no military operations can succeed. So, therefore, it is quite natural that when a military operation is launched or planned, intelligence will be part of it. And particularly human intelligence is always important on the ground to provide a clear and complete picture of the enemy.

LIN: Mr. Jalali, I know you've seen a lot happen in Afghanistan over a very short period of time. We only have a few seconds left, but I'd love to hear your impressions of this new government and the swearing in ceremony yesterday, and this fresh start in Afghanistan.

JALALI: There's a lot of hope for this government, especially while Afghans are supportive of this government and there's a strong international interest in Afghanistan. So these two factors are very important and, you know, brings a lot of hope to people in Afghanistan and the rest of the world.

LIN: Yes, you could see it in the video that we saw just now -- the hope on their faces. Thank you very much, Mr. Ali Jalali.

JALALI: Thank you.

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