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CNN Live Sunday

U.S. Warplanes Bombard Zawar Kili

Aired January 13, 2002 - 17:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: In Eastern Afghanistan today, U.S. warplanes engaged in some of the most intense bombing raids in weeks at targets just across the border from Pakistan.

CNN's Kamal Hyder has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMAL HYDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the third consecutive day, allied bombing on the Zawar Kili area continuing. And this night, tonight, the attack being very heavy indeed. We heard what was possibly the largest explosion since our presence here for the last three days. And we were told largest by the residents also that these were, indeed, the largest explosions.

The Zawar Kili area has received tremendous attention for the past few weeks and, of course, this is an area where they are suspected hideouts for al Qaeda members. There are people on the high positions in the mountains who are able to tell us that they did see, indeed, secondary explosions and heard some small arms fire in this area. At the same time, the Pakistani authorities are not taking any chances. And the Pakistani Army on the lookout for any suspected al Qaeda members from filtering through into Pakistan.

Kamal Hyder, CNN, Miramsha (ph), Pakistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: All right, for more on the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan, we're joined by CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Hi Carol.

LIN: Good to see you.

All right, we heard from Kamal there. He described a lot of the logistics of what they're seeing in this bombing campaign; but tell us more about Zawar Kili. Who exactly is there, and what exactly is there that's warranting this much attention?

SHEPPERD: Yes, it makes you wonder, because we've been bombing Zawar Kili for about -- the better part of three weeks now. Basically what's happening there is a couple things. One, we're getting new intelligence about new cave complexes and tunnel complexes within there. Also, we're finding pieces of equipment that are being assembled, and we're taking that equipment out from the air. Some of the secondary explosions that we are hearing are indicative of that.

It could also be that the Pakistani forces blocking the escape of the al Qaeda cells and the Taliban that are fleeing into Pakistan are forcing them -- that the only place they've got to go is the Zawar Kili area because they're being hunted everywhere else.

Hard to say; we're probably not going to be told. But that's the most likely what's (sic) going on there.

LIN: So the small arms fire that we're hearing about, does that indicate that there are still pockets of fighters -- there are actual fighters trapped in that area too?

SHEPPERD: Yes, it could be than; it also could be secondary explosions set off by the bombs. It's just very, very hard to say. But you hear small arms fire, reportedly, all over Afghanistan all the time. So very, very difficult to say, Carol.

LIN: All right. In another matter, general, you heard about CNN confirming with military sources that some of these detainees being held at Kandahar Airport right now are giving up some pretty interesting information -- specifically some of these men are telling their questioners, interrogators, this their assignment would be to come to the United States and kill Americans. How is it that these interrogators are getting this information, and how reliable, really, is it?

SHEPPERD: Well, it's very difficult to say what's reliable and what's not. But what happens is over a period of time you put together a mosaic from pieces of information that are consistent from all prisoners, or consistent from the same prisoners.

It's very much, as a matter of fact, like you see on "The Sopranos." As you continually interrogate these people over time, some of them won't give you anything, others will give you things readily, others will meet you in the middle. You threaten some, you offer some a better deal, you tell them what may happen to them if they don't talk to you, what's happening to their families; you tell them that they may receive a short sentence rather than stay here a long time; or if they don't talk they may stay the rest of their life in these kind of conditions.

And over time, generally speaking, you'll get the picture, Carol.

LIN: Well, what I see a lot on "The Sopranos," now that you mention it, is a lot of people getting killed or tortured. I mean, what sort of techniques do you use in the military to extract this information, short of those questions and some minor threats?

SHEPPERD: Yes, absolutely no torture. We don't beat these guys up. We do not torture them at all. They are protected under the laws of armed conflict. They have access to the Red Cross. They have access -- although they're fingerprinted and their picture's taken, their families are notified of their detention, if you will.

But they will be detained until the hostilities are over, and that could be a long time. But we do not -- we put them under tremendous pressure, and time has its effect, but we do not torture or beat them up.

LIN: General, then what do you make of remarks by human rights organizations who are questioning some of the circumstances, the conditions in which some of these detainees are placed?

SHEPPERD: Well, I think that's (sic) very good, logical questions because it makes sure that prisoners, wherever they are all over the world are under the watch of people that make sure they are treated humanely and not tortured. Again, basically, we are not doing that. We never have done that to prisoners.

On the other hand, one of the things that you do is tell these people they may be sent back home. And some of the places they come from may, indeed, do that, or may subject them to the death penalty. And they may be afraid of going home. And that may be one of the reasons they talk to us.

LIN: Interesting. All right, thank you very much, General Don Shepperd, for your analysis there. We were wondering what was happening in Zawar Kili.

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