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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Author Jason Berry

Aired April 28, 2002 - 17:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Now, many Roman Catholics in America are displeased that the Vatican is not taking a clearer stance of zero tolerance for priests who sexually abuse children and teenagers. This morning, Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law assured his parishioners zero tolerance is already the rule in his archdiocese.

And now we want to go to Jason Berry who has been keeping close watch on the Catholic Church in this country for a long time now. His book is "Lead Us Not Into Temptation." And he joins us now from New Orleans.

Well, Jason, thank you very much for joining us. Why is that you are somewhat disappointed that you think that this was bad PR for the 12 U.S. cardinals to go to the Vatican to talk with the pope on this issue?

JASON BERRY, AUTHOR: Well, Fredricka, unfortunately, the cardinals went, I think, hoping to get a kind of victory in the arena of public opinion. And unfortunately, they came back without an agreement on a coherent plan. They are only now over a week later saying that they are going to have a zero -- you know, a policy of one strike, when by the time they get to Dallas for their meeting in June...

WHITFIELD: Except wasn't it the day after the conference of bishops, president said that they did agree to a zero tolerance policy, it was just that it was not particularly announced while they were in Rome? But those cardinals did agree on a zero tolerance policy as it pertains to any forthcoming sexual abuse cases involving the priests.

BERRY: Well, that's a very big distinction that you make, however, and it's a rather flawed distinction, I think, in their plan that you just quoted -- namely, that in future cases there will be zero tolerance. The problem all along has been that they have a huge backlog of men who are in pastoral and ministerial positions who have histories of abusing youngsters, and they have not removed them. And so that's one of the looming problems they face.

I would say another thing too, if I may. You know, the biggest problem is that the pope's own statement was ambiguous. On the one hand, he spoke very clearly, saying that sexual abuse of children is a crime. On the other hand, he spoke of conversion vis-a-vis the priests. And so I don't think there is a clear distinction in the holy father's statement, and unfortunately the bishops themselves, the cardinals, are struggling now to come up with a coherent, unified plan.

WHITFIELD: Now, the cardinals have tried to make it very clear that come June, when they have the U.S. conference of bishops, at that point they may address a more wide sweeping zero tolerance policy. Perhaps it would include any past abusers?

Do you have any confidence that that would happen?

BERRY: Well, I hate to say I don't have confidence. I would like to think that they would do something like that.

Here is the larger problem. Catholics across this country and in many parts of the world, I'm sure, are yearning for a sign of justice. For atonement, that the bishops and cardinals who have engaged in these terrible policies of playing musical chairs will child molesters will themselves either resign or be removed or be subject to some kind a disciplinary procedure. Every day that Cardinal Law remains in Boston, he is a symbol of a hierarchy that cannot police itself. And the problem in Rome is that it was the power structure speaking to the power structure.

What these cardinals desperately need to do is have a sit-down, nationally televised listening session with the abuse survivors. They need to hear the stories of these people, who, in a sense, if you think about confession within Catholic culture and tradition, these survivors are the sinned against.

WHITFIELD: Well, let's talk about accountability then. There are some Catholics who say because the majority of these cardinals are all share something in common, most of them are in their 70s or at least close to. They are all of the same school of thought and culture, so to speak, that there are some Catholics who say it is time now to wipe the slate clean. That perhaps it's time now to appoint new U.S. cardinals leading the Roman Catholic Church within this country.

BERRY: Well, that is a very interesting thought. But, unfortunately, structurally within the church there is no mechanism for removing a cardinal or a bishop. That power can only come from the pope. And I think what is going to probably flow out of this session in Dallas, coming up in June, will be an even greater debate among Catholics about what kind of mechanisms, structures, should be put in place so that lay people have a greater say in the lines of authority within the church.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jason Berry, "Lead Us Not Into Temptation "is the book. And you were joining us from New Orleans. We appreciate your insight now.

BERRY: Thank you.

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