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CNN Live Sunday
Interview With Former CIA Official Stan Bedlington
Aired May 26, 2002 - 18:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI continues to be criticized over possible missed signals before the September 11 terrorist attacks and now there is word that the CIA will step in to help the FBI to assure all bases in terror intelligence are covered. Here's CNN's Patty Davis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Heightened alert status remains in effect for New York City landmarks, subways and bridges across the country too, and a threat that small planes could be used by terrorists on suicide missions. The latest FBI warnings, as the FBI continues to be criticized for not piecing together warning signs prior to September 11.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I am very concerned about the incompetence demonstrated on so many occasions within the FBI over the course of the last year. We've got to fix it.
DAVIS: A U.S. official tells CNN about 25 CIA analysts will be deployed to FBI headquarters to help set up, "a robust intelligence gathering capability." Additional CIA analysts will be sent to the FBI field offices to review their terrorism cases to see if any intelligence clues have been overlooked.
ROBERT BLITZER, FORMER FBI OFFICIAL: I think what they bring to the FBI is an ability to look at raw intelligence, to digest it, compare it to other intelligence that's been received in the past and then to report it out in a format that can be quickly disseminated.
DAVIS: The FBI has been criticized for failing to link a July 2001 memo by this Phoenix FBI agent, suggesting that the FBI look into Middle Eastern men training at U.S. flight schools, to the arrest in Minneapolis of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker. Coleen Rowley, an FBI agent and lawyer in the Minneapolis office, charges in a letter to FBI Director Robert Mueller, and reported by "TIME" magazine, that an official at FBI headquarters undercut the effort to get a search warrant for Moussaoui's laptop computer.
Rowley accused headquarters of "making several changes in the wording of the information that had been provided by Minneapolis," and failing to add, "further intelligence information" which had been promised. FBI Director Mueller has not commented on Rowley's specific charges, but he has asked the Justice Department's inspector general to investigate.
(on camera): The FBI is expected to announce more about its reorganization plans this week. The pressure will be on the bureau and the CIA to work together more closely than ever in an effort to catch terrorists before they strike.
Patty Davis, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLAWAY: For more now on the terror alerts and the role that intelligence can play in possibly preventing these attacks, we turn to Stan Bedlington. He's a former CIA counterterrorism official. He's joining us today from Washington. Thanks for being with us on this Sunday.
STAN BEDLINGTON, FORMER CIA OFFICIAL: My pleasure.
CALLAWAY: What is your opinion on how these alerts have been issued? Do you think there's too many?
BEDLINGTON: Frankly, I do. I think there have been far too many. It almost feels that there's an alert du jour coming out every day. You have the FBI director saying we should be prepared for suicide bombing. We have Secretary Rumsfeld saying that we should be prepared for weapons of mass destruction, and I'm not quite certain what the evidence to support these threat alerts is.
CALLAWAY: But aren't they in a no-win situation because certainly they are receiving a great of criticism over not issuing any type of warning or any type of -- releasing any type of information before September 11, so where do you draw the line?
BEDLINGTON: Well, that's the problem. At the moment, I think, there's a certain political element present. Democrats are saying that all these threat alerts are being issued by the White House in order to deflect criticism of President Bush, which I think is unfair. At least that is what is being said, so there is a political element involved.
CALLAWAY: And certainly there's a political element involved in everything, but there has to be -- these alerts have to be substantiated in some way.
BEDLINGTON: Yes.
CALLAWAY: But I can't expect the CIA or the FBI, even the White House for that matter, to release any information that perhaps they shouldn't be releasing.
BEDLINGTON: Well, you know, the problem is the more threat alerts you issue, and we've seen several in the last few days, a sort of fatigue element sets in. I mean, people involved in the police force or in other security organizations can't be expected to be on the alert the whole time and the more these threats are issued, I think then the more fatigue will creep in and that will be counterproductive.
CALLAWAY: But doesn't that say more about life after September 11 that perhaps issuing too many warnings?
BEDLINGTON: Oh, I think it probably does. I mean, September 11 was an absolute sort of low watermark, if you like, in this country in terms of terrorism.
CALLAWAY: So maybe we are going to have to be on alert on more occasions than before. What do you think should be changed? I know you're not very happy with this color-coded system or the level of alerts that are issued.
BEDLINGTON: Well I think, you know, it's a very fine line about issuing too much information, what is behind a threat alert, and withholding that information, and quite frankly it's a very difficult decision to make. We must not be complacent, yet at the same time you know we mustn't over exaggerate the threat.
CALLAWAY: What about the CIA stepping in now to help the FBI? What are your thoughts on that? It seems to me that should have been done a long time ago.
BEDLINGTON: Well, you know, I go back to 1986 when I was in the counterterrorist center in the CIA headquarters. At that time, when we set up the counterterrorist center, we did in fact have representation from the FBI, so of sitting inside CIA headquarters with the counterterrorist center. So the exchange of information between the bureau and the agency has been going on for some years.
CALLAWAY: Yes, but there's also been a ...
BEDLINGTON: Having said...
CALLAWAY: Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, sir.
BEDLINGTON: I'd like to make one point. You know, the CIA has always placed tremendous emphasis on analysis, whereas it's my understanding that the bureau has not placed quite so much emphasis on analysis as it has on law enforcement. So I think this exchange of expertise from the agency to the bureau can be very helpful.
CALLAWAY: I was just going to say, but wasn't there also a sense of competition perhaps of treading on someone's, into their territory?
BEDLINGTON: Well -- I'm sorry, go ahead.
CALLAWAY: No, that was just the CIA wanting, you know the FBI treading into their territory and vice versa.
BEDLINGTON: Well, of course, there's two different cultures involved. I mean the CIA wants to collect intelligence, recruit agents, whereas the FBI's role is essentially one of law enforcement of getting convictions and sending people to prison.
So there is a different culture involved, and I think therefore, this exchange of analysts or the sending of CIA analysts to the bureau can not be anything but extremely helpful.
CALLAWAY: One last question, because we are running out of time, but we did touch on the fact that there is sort of a color-coded system. Do you think that most people understand what that means, say a yellow alert versus?
BEDLINGTON: Well, I know what it is, but I'm not quite certain whether the public at large will know. Red is severe. Orange is high. "E" is elevated. Blue is guarded, and the final one, of course, is green, which is low. This is very difficult for the public to comprehend. It's complicated.
CALLAWAY: It is complicated, and we have it now on the screen for everyone, to know what exactly the difference between those would be and how your behavior should change, depending on what color-coded alert we're in.
BEDLINGTON: That's a very, very good point, and the point is that sort of the assigning of threat alerts is not a science, not as yet anyway. It's an art form. So almost in every case, it's a judgment call on the part of the agency or the analyst who is issuing the alert.
CALLAWAY: All right, Stan Bedlington, thank you very much for being with us today and giving us some food for thought on the issue. Thank you, Stan.
BEDLINGTON: My pleasure.
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