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CNN Live Sunday

Israel Proceeds With Plans to Build Fence Around West Bank

Aired June 23, 2002 - 18:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: In the Middle East, Israel is proceeding with plans to fence off parts of the West Bank. The Israeli Cabinet today approved the route for the first phase of the more than 200- mile-long fence. Israel says the barrier will help protect the country from suicide bomb attacks, but will it work? CNN's Garrick Utley went looking for some answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It will wind and run for 225 miles along the West Bank, the new Israeli-built wall. In some places, it will be a security fence. In others, a solid wall, a steel and concrete curtain rising between Israelis and Palestinians.

EPHRAIM SNEH, ISRAELI TRANSPORTATION MINISTER: The purpose is to make the infiltration of suicide bombers to Israel impossible.

UTLEY: And what about those on the other side of the wall?

SAEB ERAKAT, PALESTINIAN CABINET MINISTER: The real translation of this Israeli term, their idea of separation is suffocating the Palestinians. That's suffocation.

UTLEY: Throughout history, a wall that promises protection has also challenged others to find a way through it or around, under, or over it. It happens every day along the U.S.-Mexican border. It happens with the human walls we build. They may be intimidating, but few walls are impregnable.

(on camera): And then there was the wall that was built right here in Lower Manhattan, three and a half centuries ago by the first Dutch settlers, who were trying to protect themselves from an attack by the British. It didn't help. The British seized the land and called it New York, and then they took down the wall. But this narrow lane has kept its name, Wall Street.

(voice-over): The Great Wall of China was one of the largest construction projects ever, nearly 4,000 miles of wall built over several centuries and reaching from China's northeastern coast to Central Asia. It provided security, but it was a false security.

When France built the Maginot Line along its border with Germany, with its walls, turrets and tunnels, the French were confident that no army could breach these fortifications. The Germans agreed. So in 1940, the German Army simply swept around the Maginot Line, marched into Paris, and occupied France.

The story of walls is that what goes up eventually and inevitably comes down, or becomes irrelevant as time passes and people learn to live together.

Now the cycle starts again, as Israel builds its new wall, just as it has long maintained a barrier fence between Israelis and the Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip. Will this bring greater security for Israelis? No doubt. But security is not the same as true peace, and as with every new wall built, there is the question, who is being walled out and who is being walled in?

Garrick Utley, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: On that note, joining us to talk more about the fence, Israel's reoccupation of parts of the West Bank, and other issues in the Middle East is CNN Military Analyst General Wesley Clark. He comes to us this evening in Little Rock, Arkansas. Good evening, general.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good evening, Carol.

LIN: Good to see you. Well, what do you think? Is a wall the solution there? Do you think that's at least going to tamp down some of the suicide bomb attacks in Israel?

CLARK: Well, I think the wall is part of the solution at this point because it will, no doubt, free up some Israeli military forces to do other things, and it will force the Palestinians, at least temporarily, to channelize their efforts to come after the Israelis.

Of course, the wall is going to bring other problems with it, the problems of the economy in the Palestinian areas, the problems of Israeli movement into the Palestinian areas, the problems of perception and what it means to fence out a whole group of people.

And, of course, there are many Palestinians who live inside Israeli itself, and so these people are going to be divided by the wall from their relatives on the other side. It's not a problem-free solution.

LIN: And it seems to be a symbol of the times certainly there. So, you've got walls going up. You've got Israeli troops occupying major West Bank towns. All eyes seem to be on President Bush and whether he is going to make this statement about some sort of interim Palestinian State. No statement yet, but some criticism today from Senator John Kerry, a Democrat from Massachusetts. Listen for a moment to what he had to say today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: There is no clarity to the president's position. Every week you hear a different sort of possibility, maybe a provisional Palestinian state, maybe a plan or no plan. We're going to talk to Arafat. We're not going to talk to Arafat. Let Sharon do what he has to do. Don't let him do it. It seems to me that the United States has got to be much clearer in what our vision of peace is, and begin to move towards that process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: General, would you agree?

CLARK: I think that the administration has suffered from the beginning from a reluctance to get engaged in this area, and I think their policy still suffers from it.

This is viewed as a supporting theater of effort, if you will, because the primary emphasis is really on settling down the Arab- Israeli situation so that preparations can go ahead to move against Iraq.

And so, what's happening between Israeli and Palestine or the Palestinians is a distraction. So what the administration is really trying to do is put a blanket over it, and I think the problem is, it's more complicated than that and if blankets don't work, we really do need to get a clear vision.

We need to move ahead with it, and not be deterred by the fact that Hamas is still there and there's still violence there. We're going to have to move ahead despite Hamas.

LIN: But see, general, you just pointed out an interesting problem. I mean the Arab world sees that transparency. They see the U.S. effort as really an effort only to calm the violence there so the United States can attack Iraq. So, in a sense, would the president's plan really have credibility, or should the solution come from the Arab world?

CLARK: I think the Arab world's going to be a very big part of the solution in this, Carol, because just as we found in bringing peace in the Balkans, it takes outsiders all around the periphery to help the combatants who are engaged step back and move toward a more peaceful solution.

We're going to need Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Jordan vitally engaged in this, but I think the president's plan will have credibility if he pursues it with vigor and really works on it.

If it's just something to smooth over the surface, to stay on a hypothetical timetable to go against Saddam Hussein, then yes, there are going to be difficulties with the Arabs, no doubt about it.

LIN: The devil in the details.

CLARK: Yes.

LIN: Thank you very much, General Wesley Clark. We never have enough time with you and hope to see you again soon.

CLARK: Thank you.

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