Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Sunday
Interview With Don Wright
Aired September 22, 2002 - 17:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we're going to bring you that interview we were telling you about earlier in the broadcast. Now, of course, Madelyne Gorman Toogood and her husband are members of a close-knit and controversial group, known as Irish Travelers. Now, rightly or wrongly, these Irish descended-people have a reputation for being con artists and thieves, and in today's news conference, Gorman Toogood's lawyer defended the Travelers. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN ROSEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I've learned through the years of 15 years of representing Irish Travelers and travel the country with them, and you come to know them and learn and like them, because they're very loyal and very considerate. And when your birthday comes, mine is July 4 (ph), so they know mine, but they'll give you a call. Hi, I'm in Topeca, Kansas, Rocket (ph), happy birthday. You know, that means a lot to I'm sure you and me. They're very loyal people. And when you're born into this culture, that's it.
You don't go to high school. You don't go to college. You can't stand in front of people and speak out with the correct pronunciation in English language. So here's a young lady -- and she has a hard time expressing to the media -- I mean, I wish she could come out as she talks to me and tell you that what it feels like when a police officer comes over, looks her in the eyes, and says, ma'am, you have to pick up your kids and your husband and get out of town, because we don't want you here.
So, yes, they have to move from town to town, because they can't work. And when you do move from town to town, you don't have a permanent address. And that's difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSBORN: Steve Rosen there, Madelyne Toogood's defense attorney, with what could be called a favorable assessment. With Don Wright, however, the author of the book "Scam," has a very different take on the Travelers. He joins us now from South Bend, Indiana. Hello to you, Mr. Wright.
DON WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "SCAM": Hello.
OSBORN: So let's begin with this: How would you characterize or say that which distinguishes Irish Travelers? What is their philosophy? What makes them unique? How would you describe them? WRIGHT: Well, first of all, let me say, I don't disagree with Mr. Rosen. They're very likable, charming people. I know a lot of Irish Travelers, and I like them all.
However, I've never met an Irish Traveler who wasn't a con artist, and I have been associated with them for about 25 years now.
OSBORN: That's a pretty broad and strong statement, you might say. Others have said that perhaps, at the very most, there is a percentage of Irish Travelers who might be involved in some degree of crime, but by and large, that's not the case.
WRIGHT: If you talk with an Irish Traveler that you don't know and he doesn't know you, and you ask him about Irish Travelers and their crimes, he will tell you that only a small portion of them are actually criminals and con artists. If you talk with an Irish Traveler that you know and one who knows you, as I've done, and you ask that person if he has ever known an Irish Traveler who wasn't an con artist, the answer is no.
OSBORN: And so you base this assessment on, as you point out, extensive discussions with members of the Irish Travelers?
WRIGHT: Yes. I've known and talked with literally dozens of Irish Travelers over the years.
OSBORN: Well, then I wanted to bring to your attention a man or a person who called themselves an Irish Traveler, posted on your Web site or on the Web site that discussed your book, and one of the things he says, he called himself an Irish Traveler and said that your book was hearsay, and that, in fact, by and large, Irish Travelers don't do much of anything wrong?
WRIGHT: I've heard about the Web site. I haven't visited it myself. I can't really speak to that. I haven't read it. But the book is definitely not hearsay. It's based on hundreds of hours of interviews on tape with Irish Travelers, their victims and law enforcement people.
OSBORN: And just generally, Mr. Wright, let's discuss some other aspects of Irish Travelers. There could be arranged marriages oftentimes when children are very young?
WRIGHT: Well, it depends on the family and also the segment of Irish Travelers. Some -- one particular segment of the Irish Travelers do arrange marriages, and have what they call a bride price, in which the son is sold to another family as the bridegroom of that family's daughter.
However, to the best of my knowledge, the Toogood and Gorman families are not involved in that kind of thing.
OSBORN: Why in your view, Irish Travelers regard it as being a mysterious kind of secret group, your thoughts on that?
WRIGHT: Well, they're very self-sustaining, very insular. They don't have anything to do with non-Travelers who they call "country people." They maintain very close family ties. They don't want anything to do with any other people, and they want to keep a low profile and generally be unknown.
I've talked with half-a-dozen Irish Travelers in the last couple of days, and they are all very upset and concerned about all this publicity that the Travelers are getting because of this child case.
OSBORN: Yeah, I suppose the concern could unfairly characterize their group.
Don Wright, thank you so much for your time.
WRIGHT: OK, you're welcome.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 22, 2002 - 17:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we're going to bring you that interview we were telling you about earlier in the broadcast. Now, of course, Madelyne Gorman Toogood and her husband are members of a close-knit and controversial group, known as Irish Travelers. Now, rightly or wrongly, these Irish descended-people have a reputation for being con artists and thieves, and in today's news conference, Gorman Toogood's lawyer defended the Travelers. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN ROSEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I've learned through the years of 15 years of representing Irish Travelers and travel the country with them, and you come to know them and learn and like them, because they're very loyal and very considerate. And when your birthday comes, mine is July 4 (ph), so they know mine, but they'll give you a call. Hi, I'm in Topeca, Kansas, Rocket (ph), happy birthday. You know, that means a lot to I'm sure you and me. They're very loyal people. And when you're born into this culture, that's it.
You don't go to high school. You don't go to college. You can't stand in front of people and speak out with the correct pronunciation in English language. So here's a young lady -- and she has a hard time expressing to the media -- I mean, I wish she could come out as she talks to me and tell you that what it feels like when a police officer comes over, looks her in the eyes, and says, ma'am, you have to pick up your kids and your husband and get out of town, because we don't want you here.
So, yes, they have to move from town to town, because they can't work. And when you do move from town to town, you don't have a permanent address. And that's difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSBORN: Steve Rosen there, Madelyne Toogood's defense attorney, with what could be called a favorable assessment. With Don Wright, however, the author of the book "Scam," has a very different take on the Travelers. He joins us now from South Bend, Indiana. Hello to you, Mr. Wright.
DON WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "SCAM": Hello.
OSBORN: So let's begin with this: How would you characterize or say that which distinguishes Irish Travelers? What is their philosophy? What makes them unique? How would you describe them? WRIGHT: Well, first of all, let me say, I don't disagree with Mr. Rosen. They're very likable, charming people. I know a lot of Irish Travelers, and I like them all.
However, I've never met an Irish Traveler who wasn't a con artist, and I have been associated with them for about 25 years now.
OSBORN: That's a pretty broad and strong statement, you might say. Others have said that perhaps, at the very most, there is a percentage of Irish Travelers who might be involved in some degree of crime, but by and large, that's not the case.
WRIGHT: If you talk with an Irish Traveler that you don't know and he doesn't know you, and you ask him about Irish Travelers and their crimes, he will tell you that only a small portion of them are actually criminals and con artists. If you talk with an Irish Traveler that you know and one who knows you, as I've done, and you ask that person if he has ever known an Irish Traveler who wasn't an con artist, the answer is no.
OSBORN: And so you base this assessment on, as you point out, extensive discussions with members of the Irish Travelers?
WRIGHT: Yes. I've known and talked with literally dozens of Irish Travelers over the years.
OSBORN: Well, then I wanted to bring to your attention a man or a person who called themselves an Irish Traveler, posted on your Web site or on the Web site that discussed your book, and one of the things he says, he called himself an Irish Traveler and said that your book was hearsay, and that, in fact, by and large, Irish Travelers don't do much of anything wrong?
WRIGHT: I've heard about the Web site. I haven't visited it myself. I can't really speak to that. I haven't read it. But the book is definitely not hearsay. It's based on hundreds of hours of interviews on tape with Irish Travelers, their victims and law enforcement people.
OSBORN: And just generally, Mr. Wright, let's discuss some other aspects of Irish Travelers. There could be arranged marriages oftentimes when children are very young?
WRIGHT: Well, it depends on the family and also the segment of Irish Travelers. Some -- one particular segment of the Irish Travelers do arrange marriages, and have what they call a bride price, in which the son is sold to another family as the bridegroom of that family's daughter.
However, to the best of my knowledge, the Toogood and Gorman families are not involved in that kind of thing.
OSBORN: Why in your view, Irish Travelers regard it as being a mysterious kind of secret group, your thoughts on that?
WRIGHT: Well, they're very self-sustaining, very insular. They don't have anything to do with non-Travelers who they call "country people." They maintain very close family ties. They don't want anything to do with any other people, and they want to keep a low profile and generally be unknown.
I've talked with half-a-dozen Irish Travelers in the last couple of days, and they are all very upset and concerned about all this publicity that the Travelers are getting because of this child case.
OSBORN: Yeah, I suppose the concern could unfairly characterize their group.
Don Wright, thank you so much for your time.
WRIGHT: OK, you're welcome.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
