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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Eric Margolis

Aired October 13, 2002 - 17:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The bloodshed in Bali has the U.S. embassy considering scaling back U.S. personal presence in Indonesia. President Bush is condemning the violence, saying the explosions created terror and chaos. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more on the president's reaction -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, President Bush has really been making his case against Saddam Hussein and Iraq in his war on terror, but today the president's focus shifted to Indonesia and the deadly attack.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): President Bush called the bombings in Indonesia "a cowardly act designed to create terror and chaos." U.S. officials fear that the deadly attacks, believed to be aimed at international tourists and possibly Americans, may be proof that al Qaeda's reach is growing.

PHILIP BOYCE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO INDONESIA: There have been problems in Indonesia of late involving signs that al Qaeda may have been involved in activities here. And indeed, some more details in the last few weeks that we have brought to light that indicate that their presence here, as we always suspected, is in fact one that we can now more or less confirm.

MALVEAUX: President Bush has sent an FBI team to help Indonesian officials investigate who is responsible for the deadly explosions. One blast went off just outside the U.S. consular office in Bali. State Department officials are now re-examining whether the U.S. should pull out all American personnel from Indonesia.

The attacks come just three days after the State Department issued a worldwide alert, warning Americans they may be targeted by terrorists. In the last week, U.S. officials say they've seen the deadly work of al Qaeda. A French tanker is blown up at a port in Yemen, similar to the attack carried out two years ago against the USS Cole. Two Marines are ambushed in Kuwait. And audiotapes of both bin Laden and his top lieutenant surface with messages that al Qaeda continues to plan major attacks against U.S. interests.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: What happened last week with the tanker, what happened with the shootings of the Marines in Kuwait, now in Indonesia. I think these are indications that a lot of things are coming together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, officials fear that al Qaeda is becoming a more deadly network, more difficult to actually contain, but the administration arguing that this latest bombing simply another piece of evidence that the U.S. should expand its war on terror -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much, from the White House.

Other sources tell CNN the Bali attacks are linked to the terrorist group al Qaeda, which is among several anti-Western operations in Indonesia. Eric Margolis is an expert on the terrorist network and Osama bin Laden. He's also familiar with Bali, and he joins us from Toronto, Ontario. Good to see you.

ERIC MARGOLIS, TERRORISM EXPERT: Hello.

WHITFIELD: Well, are you convinced that this indeed is the work of al Qaeda?

MARGOLIS: No, not yet. Certainly we don't have the evidence of it. It could be. It fits their kind of big scale crimes. But there are many other suspects in Indonesia. Al Qaeda is not the only anti- American group in the world. In fact, there are nine militant Muslim groups in Indonesia and a whole bunch more that have just surfaced recently. They vowed to attack United States interests as a result of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

But this target, these two nightclubs, clearly seem aimed at Australian tourists. There's another group in Indonesia called the Defenders of Islam who have been bombing bars and pubs in the capital, Jakarta, because they're against alcohol and drugs. They may have been involved in this bombing in Kuta, which is sort of like the Acapulco or the Tijuana of Bali.

WHITFIELD: Well, al Qaeda has been connected to the attacks in Yemen and Kuwait. Do you then think this attack in Bali is all coincidental, that all of these are happening just one after the other this month?

MARGOLIS: There are many like-minded groups who are against the United States or Western interests. There may be tenuous, very weak fragmentary links between them and al Qaeda. Some of the members of these groups in Indonesia, for example, served during the war in Afghanistan. And that's where the links were established during the 1980s.

WHITFIELD: So what do you suppose the message is that's being sent?

MARGOLIS: The message is being sent that Westerners and Western targets will be attacked. And as the pressure mounts up over an impending U.S. invasion of Iraq, I think we're going to see more of these kind of attacks against Western targets and tourists, businesses. WHITFIELD: If Australians were indeed the target, then how do you explain the proximity of the bombing in Bali, or the two explosions to the U.S. consulate and the Philippines consulate office?

MARGOLIS: Well, one was obviously a demonstration against the U.S. and against the Philippines, where Muslim rebels are fighting in the south. But the main targets, and they seem to have been Australian tourists, because Bali is the number one tourist destination for Australians.

WHITFIELD: Well, what kind of common denominators do you see in these three bombings, if you can talk about the three that have happened most recently?

MARGOLIS: I see this last, most recent bombing in Kuta and Bali was a very professional, mechanically professional bombing job that went off designed to do maximum damage. So this is not a kind of an amateur attack such as we saw in Kuwait or in some other places where we've seen small bombings. These were done by professionals. Whether it was al Qaeda or not, as I said, we can't be sure yet.

The other links are only anti-Americanism. You know, anti- American feeling is spreading rapidly across the Muslim world. There are a lot of people who hate us.

WHITFIELD: So obviously a group that certainly has the resources to carry out an explosion of this magnitude, and you're saying al Qaeda is perhaps one of about eight with those kinds of resources in that area?

MARGOLIS: That's correct. These could be veterans of the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, where truck bombings were used extensively so they would have the skills to do it.

WHITFIELD: All right, Eric Margolis, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

MARGOLIS: You're very welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 13, 2002 - 17:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The bloodshed in Bali has the U.S. embassy considering scaling back U.S. personal presence in Indonesia. President Bush is condemning the violence, saying the explosions created terror and chaos. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more on the president's reaction -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, President Bush has really been making his case against Saddam Hussein and Iraq in his war on terror, but today the president's focus shifted to Indonesia and the deadly attack.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): President Bush called the bombings in Indonesia "a cowardly act designed to create terror and chaos." U.S. officials fear that the deadly attacks, believed to be aimed at international tourists and possibly Americans, may be proof that al Qaeda's reach is growing.

PHILIP BOYCE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO INDONESIA: There have been problems in Indonesia of late involving signs that al Qaeda may have been involved in activities here. And indeed, some more details in the last few weeks that we have brought to light that indicate that their presence here, as we always suspected, is in fact one that we can now more or less confirm.

MALVEAUX: President Bush has sent an FBI team to help Indonesian officials investigate who is responsible for the deadly explosions. One blast went off just outside the U.S. consular office in Bali. State Department officials are now re-examining whether the U.S. should pull out all American personnel from Indonesia.

The attacks come just three days after the State Department issued a worldwide alert, warning Americans they may be targeted by terrorists. In the last week, U.S. officials say they've seen the deadly work of al Qaeda. A French tanker is blown up at a port in Yemen, similar to the attack carried out two years ago against the USS Cole. Two Marines are ambushed in Kuwait. And audiotapes of both bin Laden and his top lieutenant surface with messages that al Qaeda continues to plan major attacks against U.S. interests.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: What happened last week with the tanker, what happened with the shootings of the Marines in Kuwait, now in Indonesia. I think these are indications that a lot of things are coming together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, officials fear that al Qaeda is becoming a more deadly network, more difficult to actually contain, but the administration arguing that this latest bombing simply another piece of evidence that the U.S. should expand its war on terror -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much, from the White House.

Other sources tell CNN the Bali attacks are linked to the terrorist group al Qaeda, which is among several anti-Western operations in Indonesia. Eric Margolis is an expert on the terrorist network and Osama bin Laden. He's also familiar with Bali, and he joins us from Toronto, Ontario. Good to see you.

ERIC MARGOLIS, TERRORISM EXPERT: Hello.

WHITFIELD: Well, are you convinced that this indeed is the work of al Qaeda?

MARGOLIS: No, not yet. Certainly we don't have the evidence of it. It could be. It fits their kind of big scale crimes. But there are many other suspects in Indonesia. Al Qaeda is not the only anti- American group in the world. In fact, there are nine militant Muslim groups in Indonesia and a whole bunch more that have just surfaced recently. They vowed to attack United States interests as a result of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

But this target, these two nightclubs, clearly seem aimed at Australian tourists. There's another group in Indonesia called the Defenders of Islam who have been bombing bars and pubs in the capital, Jakarta, because they're against alcohol and drugs. They may have been involved in this bombing in Kuta, which is sort of like the Acapulco or the Tijuana of Bali.

WHITFIELD: Well, al Qaeda has been connected to the attacks in Yemen and Kuwait. Do you then think this attack in Bali is all coincidental, that all of these are happening just one after the other this month?

MARGOLIS: There are many like-minded groups who are against the United States or Western interests. There may be tenuous, very weak fragmentary links between them and al Qaeda. Some of the members of these groups in Indonesia, for example, served during the war in Afghanistan. And that's where the links were established during the 1980s.

WHITFIELD: So what do you suppose the message is that's being sent?

MARGOLIS: The message is being sent that Westerners and Western targets will be attacked. And as the pressure mounts up over an impending U.S. invasion of Iraq, I think we're going to see more of these kind of attacks against Western targets and tourists, businesses. WHITFIELD: If Australians were indeed the target, then how do you explain the proximity of the bombing in Bali, or the two explosions to the U.S. consulate and the Philippines consulate office?

MARGOLIS: Well, one was obviously a demonstration against the U.S. and against the Philippines, where Muslim rebels are fighting in the south. But the main targets, and they seem to have been Australian tourists, because Bali is the number one tourist destination for Australians.

WHITFIELD: Well, what kind of common denominators do you see in these three bombings, if you can talk about the three that have happened most recently?

MARGOLIS: I see this last, most recent bombing in Kuta and Bali was a very professional, mechanically professional bombing job that went off designed to do maximum damage. So this is not a kind of an amateur attack such as we saw in Kuwait or in some other places where we've seen small bombings. These were done by professionals. Whether it was al Qaeda or not, as I said, we can't be sure yet.

The other links are only anti-Americanism. You know, anti- American feeling is spreading rapidly across the Muslim world. There are a lot of people who hate us.

WHITFIELD: So obviously a group that certainly has the resources to carry out an explosion of this magnitude, and you're saying al Qaeda is perhaps one of about eight with those kinds of resources in that area?

MARGOLIS: That's correct. These could be veterans of the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, where truck bombings were used extensively so they would have the skills to do it.

WHITFIELD: All right, Eric Margolis, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

MARGOLIS: You're very welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com