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CNN Live Sunday
Sniper on the Loose, Part I
Aired October 20, 2002 - 17:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: That 37-year-old shooting victim remains hospitalized and will soon undergo another round of surgery. Investigators say it's too early to say whether this shooting last night is related to the string of shootings in the D.C. area. Last night's shooting took place in Ashland, Virginia, 90 miles south of the Washington, D.C., area.
CNN's Daryn Kagan is at the sniper investigation epicenter in Montgomery County, Maryland, and CNN's Gary Tuchman is at the crime scene in Ashland, Virginia, and CNN's Jason Carroll is at the hospital in Richmond, Virginia.
We begin with Daryn Kagan. And Daryn, have you seen any of the Montgomery County authorities make their way back from the Ashland, Virginia area, back to Montgomery County?
DARYN KAGAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. I would say things are still pretty quiet here in Montgomery County, even though this does remain to be the lead agency, Fredricka. They had said yesterday, before the shooting took place, that they weren't going to have a briefing here until tomorrow at noon. Haven't heard a change in terms of briefings here. The action right now does appear to be in Ashland, Virginia.
We're going to get the latest on the investigation in just a second. First, I want to talk about a situation that parents in the Richmond, Virginia area are now facing, parents and the schools. It's a very similar situation that we have seen here in the Washington D.C. area over the last three weeks, and that is we are on the eve of a school week. And as of tomorrow, schools in the Richmond, Virginia area will be in lockdown. Officials are also saying there will be a high police visibility in terms of making the kids and the parents feel safer about going to school.
Now, all of this while we're still waiting for confirmation that last night's shooting is a direct match to the previous sniper shootings. And for more on that, let's bring in our Gary Tuchman, who as Fredricka mentioned, is standing by in Ashland, Virginia, where the shooting took place. Gary, hello.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, hello to you. And you and I talked about this last night when I first arrived at the scene about two hours after the shooting occurred. One of the first things we noticed when we got here were the woods behind the Ponderosa. And it was not just us who noticed the woods. Apparently, the gunman noticed the woods, too. Witnesses say that is where the gunshot came from last night around 8:00 Eastern time.
For about 15 hours, searchers were back in the woods, methodically combing over the ground. There's a lot of garbage back there, so it made it more difficult to search. But they were with canine units. When it was night time last night and during the early morning hours, they went with search lights looking for any evidence they could possibly find, and we have been told they did find some forensic evidence in the woods behind the Ponderosa restaurant. That evidence has now been sent to the laboratory.
But the main piece of evidence, perhaps, is the bullet itself. The bullet remains inside the body of the victim, that 37-year-old man whose identity has not been told to us yet. He is in very critical condition, but doctors do believe he will survive. He will have another operation later, and it's possible they will be able to take the bullet out then. At this point, authorities are not sure if this is the serial sniper, but they will operate right now under the assumption that it indeed is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. STUART COOK, HANOVER COUNTY SHERIFF: I want you to understand, and again to reassure the public, that we are working as diligently as we possibly can. We're in collaboration with the task forces in Maryland, as well as Northern Virginia. All information is being shared back and forth between those agencies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: We have covered a lot of horrible stories over the years, but rarely have we seen so many jurisdictions in one place. We have the Hanover County Sheriff's Office, we have the Ashland town police, we have the Virginia State Police, we have police from the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office, we have the FBI, we have people from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, we have Secret Service, and they're all working together as hard as they can with the story, which is getting more and more horrible as the days wear on.
It began October 2, 18 days ago, two weeks and four days. We still don't know for sure if this is one of the sniper shootings that have occurred in the Washington area, but it's certainly looking that way. Daryn, back to you.
KAGAN: Yeah, Gary, I can't help but notice as you go through that long laundry list of all the law enforcement agencies who are involved in this investigation, the lead agency remains Montgomery County Police, right where I sit. That's about 90 miles away from where you are, and yet this is still the lead agency. Any talk on the ground there of that switching, perhaps the Feds taking this one over?
TUCHMAN: Well, it's cutting both ways. If indeed they do confirm that this is one of the sniper shooting, Montgomery County will retain the lead because the first shootings did happen there. But as of now, kind of from an official standpoint, Daryn, as of now, the local authorities here in Hanover County are officially running the show, until it's officially confirmed. KAGAN: And then on, you were talking about some of the evidence that they found in the woods. I can't imagine they were very specific, but I just have to ask, did they tell what you they found in the woods?
TUCHMAN: No. As a matter of fact, the opposite of specific. They wouldn't tell us anything about it. They had one news conference today. It was funny, because last night they were having news conferences with us every half hour, which is something we generally appreciate. Today they were specific. They came out, spoke a very short amount of time, the sheriff of this county. He said he probably wouldn't be back until tomorrow. They wouldn't say anything about the evidence and is keeping very quiet about what type of evidence they found.
KAGAN: Gary Tuchman in Ashland, Virginia, thank you very much. You heard Gary talk about the man who was shot last night. He is still fighting for his life. He was taken to a hospital not that far away, in Richmond, Virginia, and that's where we find our Jason Carroll, covering that part of the story. Jason, hello.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good evening to you, Daryn. That 37-year-old man is still in critical but guarded condition here at the Medical College of Virginia.
Doctors operated on him last night for about three hours between 9:00 and midnight, trying to repair all of the damage that was done by that single gunshot wound to the upper stomach. The problem is, once someone has been shot, the bullet doesn't necessarily travel in a straight line. What it will normally do is travel all around before finally stopping, and it does a lot of damage along the way. That's exactly what happened in this particular case.
This victim's stomach was literally, according to doctors, torn apart. His pancreas was torn in half. In fact, doctors told us they had to remove the left portion of his pancreas. His spleen was ripped into multiple fragments, so much so that his spleen actually had to be removed. The bullet also grazed a kidney before finally settling near his chest area. So what's going to happen right now is the doctors are going to go back, they are going to operate on this man again as soon as he's stable enough in order for that to happen, and at that point, they're going to repair more of the damage, and also they're going to try to remove the bullet fragments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RAO IVATURY, VIRGINIA MEDICAL COLLEGE: We did not see any bullet fragments. We did not go after the bullet because the patient was not very stable at that time. And at the next operation, we'll make an attempt to see if we can take the bullet out safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: And doctors will attempt that second surgery either tonight or tomorrow, depending upon this man's condition. In terms of his stability, doctors say that, again, that he's critical, but in guarded condition. They say that he was very healthy before the shooting. That will certainly weigh in his favor. His wife is at his side. We're told that he is responding by moving his eyelids, also by moving his hands and his feet. So, that is also a good sign. In terms of his prognosis, doctors say his chances of survival are fair to good -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Well, Jason, I know there's a lot of people rooting for this man and saying a lot of prayers. Understandable that the doctors don't want to make getting the bullet their first priority, they are obviously trying to save this man's life. But I also heard that perhaps just through simple X-ray, they might be able to tell the caliber of the bullet, just to see if it's in the general ballpark of this .223 caliber bullet that the sniper has used in all of the other shootings.
CARROLL: That is true, Daryn. And in fact, they have taken X- rays already. They have taken several X-rays, so that certainly is going to help police with their investigation, but as you say, their first priority here, when a gunshot victim comes into a trauma center like this one is to do what you can to save the person's life, to save the person's life, to stabilize the victim. Once you can get the person stable, which still really hasn't been done in this particular situation, then you can go after the bullet fragments.
KAGAN: Jason Carroll in Richmond, Virginia. We'll be checking back with you for the latest on the status of this latest shooting victim. Thank you very much.
And Fredricka, as I toss it back to you, I want to just share one tidbit from late last night as the story was breaking. At first police officials saying they weren't releasing the identity of this man because it was such a quick-breaking story. And I'm quoting here the police officer in Ashland said "I don't want his family to learn about this on CNN." And certainly, we wouldn't want the same thing, but way beyond that, his identity is being guarded much like the other two surviving victims in these cases, because he is considered, if this is indeed the sniper situation, he is considered a very important witness in that case and his identity will remain sealed.
WHITFIELD: That's right, Daryn. They don't even want to go as far as saying from which city he originates. So they are certainly keeping all of that information very tight-lipped. Appreciate it. Good to see you from Montgomery County, thank you.
Well, again, still no confirmation this latest shooting of the man we were just talking about is linked to the other string of shootings. Up next, we'll make some comparisons based on the information we do have. We'll examine what investigators are up against when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. A closer look now at those killed and wounded in the confirmed sniper shootings. On October 2, James Martin of Silver Spring, Maryland, became the first victim. The next day, five people died. They were James Buchanan of Arlington, Virginia, Prem Kumar Walekar of Olney, Maryland, Sarah Ramos of Silver Spring, Lori Lewis Rivera of Silver Spring, and Pascal Charlot of Washington, D.C. The following day, a woman was wounded in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Her name has not been released. Three days later, a student was shot and wounded at his school in Bowie, Maryland. He is still being hospitalized.
The three people killed most recently were Dean Harold Meyers of Gaithersburg, Maryland, shot in Manassas, Virginia on October 9, Kenneth Bridges of Philadelphia was shot in Spotsylvania County, Virginia on October 11, and Linda Franklin of Arlington, Virginia became another fatal victim October 14.
The team of officials working last night's shooting in Ashland, Virginia, say they are treating this case so far as if it were linked to the spree of shootings, but it's still too early to officially make the connection. Removing the bullet fragments from last night's victim or finding any shell casings could bring some potential clues.
Retired Command Sergeant Major Eric Haney is a firearms expert and knows all too well how important such evidence would be, and he's here in Atlanta to help us all understand exactly what these investigators are up against. We talk about this .223 caliber bullet. As it makes impact, it breaks up. How difficult, then, is it to extrapolate these markings from such fragments and how many fragments are we talking about, usually?
SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY, CNN FIREARMS ANALYST: Well, the bullet starts to mushroom, actually. These are probably hunting rounds, so they have an exposed lead tip, which makes it flatten out on impact. Unfortunately, when it's very close, as these are, the velocity is so fast that as it flattens out, it tends to come into pieces, and it will spin off three or four, maybe five fragments. It's not dozens or hundreds, as some people have said. And the base of the bullet, the heaviest part, tends to stay together.
WHITFIELD: So perhaps the condition of the bullet if they're able to retrieve the fragments from a victim's body, that will help them also determine the distance from which it was fired?
HANEY: I don't think they're really looking at that at this time. You know, because there's so many imponderables in that. If it touches a bone, it's going to fragment. If it just goes through organs, it's going to act a little bit differently. The main thing is, though, with the base of the bullet staying intact, it appears that in every instance where they're recovered them they were able to match those bullets.
WHITFIELD: Now, reportedly, FBI investigators are now looking at scouring through the 2,200-some gun shops and pawn shops in Virginia, perhaps being able to make a connection of who may be purchasing .223 bullets, who may be purchasing or perhaps getting any kind of maintenance on their weaponry. How significant and how possible, you know, would that kind of option be to glean some evidence? HANEY: Well, this is turning over all the rocks that you can think of. These people probably bought a great deal of ammunition some while back. And that's not odd whatsoever. The ammunition is easily available. It's almost ubiquitous. It's just all over the place. You can buy it cheaply. You can buy ammunition through the mail. You can have it shipped to you. There are no restrictions on that.
But they are also going through sales of weapons at pawn shops and other places. And all of these are recorded sales on ATF forms. And those forms are mandatory that they're turned in to the ATF. So the clerks are busy. They're going through all of those at this time.
WHITFIELD: Is it a case in which you can find such supplies, though, without being registered, whether it is in the Maryland, D.C., Virginia area, there are black markets where people are able to purchase such material, such firearms material and you cannot trace that?
HANEY: Oh, certainly, you can buy black market arms. There's a big trade in the United States, there is a big trade worldwide, but particularly in the United States, particularly in the D.C. area. However, that's usually centers around pistols. It's just so easy to buy a rifle.
WHITFIELD: If they are able to retrieve any kind of casings from perhaps this most recent shooting since officially they're not making the connection, how long does it take before they are able to make a connection, even if they cannot remove bullet fragments from the latest victim?
HANEY: Well, in this case, maybe they don't find the bullets or can't remove them from the victim, but they do find the spent cartridge case that was ejected from the rifle, if it was ejected and not retrieved by the shooter. They already have one sample of that from the shooting of the little boy, so it's almost immediate when they make that matchup.
WHITFIELD: The shooting took place at night. At least the one last night we're talking about. They haven't officially made the connection, but wouldn't it be rather difficult, given that this spent casing could go some eight feet away in order to try and retrieve all of your casings if you fired off a weapon?
HANEY: No. It's not. You can put some little devices that will grab the cases and keep them from flying away. You can do as much as put a piece of duct tape over the ejection port in this case and it will hold that casing in, because he's only firing one round. They have never attempted to fire multiple rounds.
WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much. Sergeant Major Eric Haney, good to see you. Appreciate it.
HANEY: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 20, 2002 - 17:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: That 37-year-old shooting victim remains hospitalized and will soon undergo another round of surgery. Investigators say it's too early to say whether this shooting last night is related to the string of shootings in the D.C. area. Last night's shooting took place in Ashland, Virginia, 90 miles south of the Washington, D.C., area.
CNN's Daryn Kagan is at the sniper investigation epicenter in Montgomery County, Maryland, and CNN's Gary Tuchman is at the crime scene in Ashland, Virginia, and CNN's Jason Carroll is at the hospital in Richmond, Virginia.
We begin with Daryn Kagan. And Daryn, have you seen any of the Montgomery County authorities make their way back from the Ashland, Virginia area, back to Montgomery County?
DARYN KAGAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. I would say things are still pretty quiet here in Montgomery County, even though this does remain to be the lead agency, Fredricka. They had said yesterday, before the shooting took place, that they weren't going to have a briefing here until tomorrow at noon. Haven't heard a change in terms of briefings here. The action right now does appear to be in Ashland, Virginia.
We're going to get the latest on the investigation in just a second. First, I want to talk about a situation that parents in the Richmond, Virginia area are now facing, parents and the schools. It's a very similar situation that we have seen here in the Washington D.C. area over the last three weeks, and that is we are on the eve of a school week. And as of tomorrow, schools in the Richmond, Virginia area will be in lockdown. Officials are also saying there will be a high police visibility in terms of making the kids and the parents feel safer about going to school.
Now, all of this while we're still waiting for confirmation that last night's shooting is a direct match to the previous sniper shootings. And for more on that, let's bring in our Gary Tuchman, who as Fredricka mentioned, is standing by in Ashland, Virginia, where the shooting took place. Gary, hello.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, hello to you. And you and I talked about this last night when I first arrived at the scene about two hours after the shooting occurred. One of the first things we noticed when we got here were the woods behind the Ponderosa. And it was not just us who noticed the woods. Apparently, the gunman noticed the woods, too. Witnesses say that is where the gunshot came from last night around 8:00 Eastern time.
For about 15 hours, searchers were back in the woods, methodically combing over the ground. There's a lot of garbage back there, so it made it more difficult to search. But they were with canine units. When it was night time last night and during the early morning hours, they went with search lights looking for any evidence they could possibly find, and we have been told they did find some forensic evidence in the woods behind the Ponderosa restaurant. That evidence has now been sent to the laboratory.
But the main piece of evidence, perhaps, is the bullet itself. The bullet remains inside the body of the victim, that 37-year-old man whose identity has not been told to us yet. He is in very critical condition, but doctors do believe he will survive. He will have another operation later, and it's possible they will be able to take the bullet out then. At this point, authorities are not sure if this is the serial sniper, but they will operate right now under the assumption that it indeed is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. STUART COOK, HANOVER COUNTY SHERIFF: I want you to understand, and again to reassure the public, that we are working as diligently as we possibly can. We're in collaboration with the task forces in Maryland, as well as Northern Virginia. All information is being shared back and forth between those agencies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: We have covered a lot of horrible stories over the years, but rarely have we seen so many jurisdictions in one place. We have the Hanover County Sheriff's Office, we have the Ashland town police, we have the Virginia State Police, we have police from the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office, we have the FBI, we have people from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, we have Secret Service, and they're all working together as hard as they can with the story, which is getting more and more horrible as the days wear on.
It began October 2, 18 days ago, two weeks and four days. We still don't know for sure if this is one of the sniper shootings that have occurred in the Washington area, but it's certainly looking that way. Daryn, back to you.
KAGAN: Yeah, Gary, I can't help but notice as you go through that long laundry list of all the law enforcement agencies who are involved in this investigation, the lead agency remains Montgomery County Police, right where I sit. That's about 90 miles away from where you are, and yet this is still the lead agency. Any talk on the ground there of that switching, perhaps the Feds taking this one over?
TUCHMAN: Well, it's cutting both ways. If indeed they do confirm that this is one of the sniper shooting, Montgomery County will retain the lead because the first shootings did happen there. But as of now, kind of from an official standpoint, Daryn, as of now, the local authorities here in Hanover County are officially running the show, until it's officially confirmed. KAGAN: And then on, you were talking about some of the evidence that they found in the woods. I can't imagine they were very specific, but I just have to ask, did they tell what you they found in the woods?
TUCHMAN: No. As a matter of fact, the opposite of specific. They wouldn't tell us anything about it. They had one news conference today. It was funny, because last night they were having news conferences with us every half hour, which is something we generally appreciate. Today they were specific. They came out, spoke a very short amount of time, the sheriff of this county. He said he probably wouldn't be back until tomorrow. They wouldn't say anything about the evidence and is keeping very quiet about what type of evidence they found.
KAGAN: Gary Tuchman in Ashland, Virginia, thank you very much. You heard Gary talk about the man who was shot last night. He is still fighting for his life. He was taken to a hospital not that far away, in Richmond, Virginia, and that's where we find our Jason Carroll, covering that part of the story. Jason, hello.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good evening to you, Daryn. That 37-year-old man is still in critical but guarded condition here at the Medical College of Virginia.
Doctors operated on him last night for about three hours between 9:00 and midnight, trying to repair all of the damage that was done by that single gunshot wound to the upper stomach. The problem is, once someone has been shot, the bullet doesn't necessarily travel in a straight line. What it will normally do is travel all around before finally stopping, and it does a lot of damage along the way. That's exactly what happened in this particular case.
This victim's stomach was literally, according to doctors, torn apart. His pancreas was torn in half. In fact, doctors told us they had to remove the left portion of his pancreas. His spleen was ripped into multiple fragments, so much so that his spleen actually had to be removed. The bullet also grazed a kidney before finally settling near his chest area. So what's going to happen right now is the doctors are going to go back, they are going to operate on this man again as soon as he's stable enough in order for that to happen, and at that point, they're going to repair more of the damage, and also they're going to try to remove the bullet fragments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RAO IVATURY, VIRGINIA MEDICAL COLLEGE: We did not see any bullet fragments. We did not go after the bullet because the patient was not very stable at that time. And at the next operation, we'll make an attempt to see if we can take the bullet out safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: And doctors will attempt that second surgery either tonight or tomorrow, depending upon this man's condition. In terms of his stability, doctors say that, again, that he's critical, but in guarded condition. They say that he was very healthy before the shooting. That will certainly weigh in his favor. His wife is at his side. We're told that he is responding by moving his eyelids, also by moving his hands and his feet. So, that is also a good sign. In terms of his prognosis, doctors say his chances of survival are fair to good -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Well, Jason, I know there's a lot of people rooting for this man and saying a lot of prayers. Understandable that the doctors don't want to make getting the bullet their first priority, they are obviously trying to save this man's life. But I also heard that perhaps just through simple X-ray, they might be able to tell the caliber of the bullet, just to see if it's in the general ballpark of this .223 caliber bullet that the sniper has used in all of the other shootings.
CARROLL: That is true, Daryn. And in fact, they have taken X- rays already. They have taken several X-rays, so that certainly is going to help police with their investigation, but as you say, their first priority here, when a gunshot victim comes into a trauma center like this one is to do what you can to save the person's life, to save the person's life, to stabilize the victim. Once you can get the person stable, which still really hasn't been done in this particular situation, then you can go after the bullet fragments.
KAGAN: Jason Carroll in Richmond, Virginia. We'll be checking back with you for the latest on the status of this latest shooting victim. Thank you very much.
And Fredricka, as I toss it back to you, I want to just share one tidbit from late last night as the story was breaking. At first police officials saying they weren't releasing the identity of this man because it was such a quick-breaking story. And I'm quoting here the police officer in Ashland said "I don't want his family to learn about this on CNN." And certainly, we wouldn't want the same thing, but way beyond that, his identity is being guarded much like the other two surviving victims in these cases, because he is considered, if this is indeed the sniper situation, he is considered a very important witness in that case and his identity will remain sealed.
WHITFIELD: That's right, Daryn. They don't even want to go as far as saying from which city he originates. So they are certainly keeping all of that information very tight-lipped. Appreciate it. Good to see you from Montgomery County, thank you.
Well, again, still no confirmation this latest shooting of the man we were just talking about is linked to the other string of shootings. Up next, we'll make some comparisons based on the information we do have. We'll examine what investigators are up against when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. A closer look now at those killed and wounded in the confirmed sniper shootings. On October 2, James Martin of Silver Spring, Maryland, became the first victim. The next day, five people died. They were James Buchanan of Arlington, Virginia, Prem Kumar Walekar of Olney, Maryland, Sarah Ramos of Silver Spring, Lori Lewis Rivera of Silver Spring, and Pascal Charlot of Washington, D.C. The following day, a woman was wounded in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Her name has not been released. Three days later, a student was shot and wounded at his school in Bowie, Maryland. He is still being hospitalized.
The three people killed most recently were Dean Harold Meyers of Gaithersburg, Maryland, shot in Manassas, Virginia on October 9, Kenneth Bridges of Philadelphia was shot in Spotsylvania County, Virginia on October 11, and Linda Franklin of Arlington, Virginia became another fatal victim October 14.
The team of officials working last night's shooting in Ashland, Virginia, say they are treating this case so far as if it were linked to the spree of shootings, but it's still too early to officially make the connection. Removing the bullet fragments from last night's victim or finding any shell casings could bring some potential clues.
Retired Command Sergeant Major Eric Haney is a firearms expert and knows all too well how important such evidence would be, and he's here in Atlanta to help us all understand exactly what these investigators are up against. We talk about this .223 caliber bullet. As it makes impact, it breaks up. How difficult, then, is it to extrapolate these markings from such fragments and how many fragments are we talking about, usually?
SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY, CNN FIREARMS ANALYST: Well, the bullet starts to mushroom, actually. These are probably hunting rounds, so they have an exposed lead tip, which makes it flatten out on impact. Unfortunately, when it's very close, as these are, the velocity is so fast that as it flattens out, it tends to come into pieces, and it will spin off three or four, maybe five fragments. It's not dozens or hundreds, as some people have said. And the base of the bullet, the heaviest part, tends to stay together.
WHITFIELD: So perhaps the condition of the bullet if they're able to retrieve the fragments from a victim's body, that will help them also determine the distance from which it was fired?
HANEY: I don't think they're really looking at that at this time. You know, because there's so many imponderables in that. If it touches a bone, it's going to fragment. If it just goes through organs, it's going to act a little bit differently. The main thing is, though, with the base of the bullet staying intact, it appears that in every instance where they're recovered them they were able to match those bullets.
WHITFIELD: Now, reportedly, FBI investigators are now looking at scouring through the 2,200-some gun shops and pawn shops in Virginia, perhaps being able to make a connection of who may be purchasing .223 bullets, who may be purchasing or perhaps getting any kind of maintenance on their weaponry. How significant and how possible, you know, would that kind of option be to glean some evidence? HANEY: Well, this is turning over all the rocks that you can think of. These people probably bought a great deal of ammunition some while back. And that's not odd whatsoever. The ammunition is easily available. It's almost ubiquitous. It's just all over the place. You can buy it cheaply. You can buy ammunition through the mail. You can have it shipped to you. There are no restrictions on that.
But they are also going through sales of weapons at pawn shops and other places. And all of these are recorded sales on ATF forms. And those forms are mandatory that they're turned in to the ATF. So the clerks are busy. They're going through all of those at this time.
WHITFIELD: Is it a case in which you can find such supplies, though, without being registered, whether it is in the Maryland, D.C., Virginia area, there are black markets where people are able to purchase such material, such firearms material and you cannot trace that?
HANEY: Oh, certainly, you can buy black market arms. There's a big trade in the United States, there is a big trade worldwide, but particularly in the United States, particularly in the D.C. area. However, that's usually centers around pistols. It's just so easy to buy a rifle.
WHITFIELD: If they are able to retrieve any kind of casings from perhaps this most recent shooting since officially they're not making the connection, how long does it take before they are able to make a connection, even if they cannot remove bullet fragments from the latest victim?
HANEY: Well, in this case, maybe they don't find the bullets or can't remove them from the victim, but they do find the spent cartridge case that was ejected from the rifle, if it was ejected and not retrieved by the shooter. They already have one sample of that from the shooting of the little boy, so it's almost immediate when they make that matchup.
WHITFIELD: The shooting took place at night. At least the one last night we're talking about. They haven't officially made the connection, but wouldn't it be rather difficult, given that this spent casing could go some eight feet away in order to try and retrieve all of your casings if you fired off a weapon?
HANEY: No. It's not. You can put some little devices that will grab the cases and keep them from flying away. You can do as much as put a piece of duct tape over the ejection port in this case and it will hold that casing in, because he's only firing one round. They have never attempted to fire multiple rounds.
WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much. Sergeant Major Eric Haney, good to see you. Appreciate it.
HANEY: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
