Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Francis Butler

Aired November 10, 2002 - 17:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: When the U.S. bishops meet this week, the child sex abuse scandal that rocked the church will top the agenda. The church leaders are going to vote on a policy that's supposed to keep abusive priests away from children. Many Catholics are unhappy with what the bishops have done so far. A Gallup poll shows that 64 percent of Catholics asked say the bishops have done a bad job in dealing with the crisis, and 19 percent said they did not donate any money to the bishops' Annual Appeal this year.
With people holding back money from the church, how much is that going to hurt and what if is this really a true indicator of things to come? Frank Butler, president of Foundations and Donors Interested in Catholic Activities is here to talk a little bit about that. Good evening, Mr. Butler.

FRANCIS BUTLER, FOUNDATIONS AND DONORS INTERESTED IN CATHOLIC ACTIVITIES: Good evening.

LIN: In this survey, we're not talking about the general population of Catholics. I mean, we're talking about the most devout population of Catholics, right?

BUTLER: We are. This survey sampled 80 percent of the people sampled in this survey attend mass once a week, throughout the country.

LIN: And it sounds like what these people are saying is that they're worried that their donations were going for the wrong purposes, that they might be go going either for the church's legal fees, or even for hush money. Is that what you were hearing from the survey?

BUTLER: That's what we see in the survey. They want -- 79 percent of them want an accounting, a financial accounting of the cost of this crisis. We're seeing very, very high numbers on the issue of financial accountability. They don't know enough about where their donations have gone.

LIN: And when you say a final accounting, they want to know how the church handles its money, but what specifically do the parishioners want? Do they want a quarterly report, do they want more communication with the dioceses?

BUTLER: Well, two-thirds of them have said that they would like to see an audit of the church at every level. At the parish level, at the diocese level and at the national level. So they're looking right now at public accounting.

LIN: But it sounds like to me that these are people who would have a relationship with their local parish, right? At the local level. It seems like you found that people are still continuing to give money to their local parish. So where is the communications breakdown? Where is the trust breaking down?

BUTLER: Well, your point is right on. Over 80 percent have indicated that they continue to support the church. All the social scientific surveys of parishioners indicate that there's always a very high level of support for their local congregation, for the pastor, and so forth. But as you move up in the levels of administration in the church, to the diocese and to the national level, you see their attitude shifting quite a bit.

LIN: And what does this tell you? Because this is really the most detailed look at how the most committed Catholics feel about the sex abuse scandal and how it is affecting them on a very personal level.

BUTLER: Well, I think that we're into to sea change here in Catholicism. Lay people, having seen this crisis and seen the damage that it's done to the institution now are really taking a much more active role, are asking much more -- many more questions of church leaders and are demanding an accounting of the use of their funds. They're not going to be passive spectators. They're going to be active donors, I predict, in the future.

LIN: That's really interesting when you're talking about a religion that's asking on a daily basis for people's faith, you know, the faith to believe, and yet this has really become a pocketbook issue, because here we have a situation where the Archdiocese of Boston is actually threatening to declare bankruptcy. I mean, is this really going to be a pocketbook issue for the Catholic Church?

BUTLER: Well, already we're are having a lot of discussions across the country on that issue of bankruptcy. Some dioceses are honestly facing that at this moment. That's a tremendous embarrassment to the person in the pew, to see that, the church is in that kind of a shape. And I think that's probably one of the drivers behind the strong sentiments here in this survey, indicating that they would like to know what's up.

LIN: And you're going to be delivering this report to the conference of Catholic bishops, which is going to start meeting this week. Have you heard any reaction yet from them?

BUTLER: We have not. Yesterday, I delivered it to the president of the American bishops. They're going to have to have a little time to digest all of it. It's pretty strong stuff. And I'm sure that during the course of the week they'll be looking at money matters and they'll be referencing this survey.

LIN: Right. Interesting. And it will be interesting to see how it evolves, the relationship between the bishops who are asking for stronger measures against abusive priests versus the Vatican's policy. A schism there that still needs to be resolved. Thank you very much, Mr. Butler.

BUTLER: Thank you. Appreciate it.

LIN: President of the Foundations and Donors Interested in Catholic Activities.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 10, 2002 - 17:14   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: When the U.S. bishops meet this week, the child sex abuse scandal that rocked the church will top the agenda. The church leaders are going to vote on a policy that's supposed to keep abusive priests away from children. Many Catholics are unhappy with what the bishops have done so far. A Gallup poll shows that 64 percent of Catholics asked say the bishops have done a bad job in dealing with the crisis, and 19 percent said they did not donate any money to the bishops' Annual Appeal this year.
With people holding back money from the church, how much is that going to hurt and what if is this really a true indicator of things to come? Frank Butler, president of Foundations and Donors Interested in Catholic Activities is here to talk a little bit about that. Good evening, Mr. Butler.

FRANCIS BUTLER, FOUNDATIONS AND DONORS INTERESTED IN CATHOLIC ACTIVITIES: Good evening.

LIN: In this survey, we're not talking about the general population of Catholics. I mean, we're talking about the most devout population of Catholics, right?

BUTLER: We are. This survey sampled 80 percent of the people sampled in this survey attend mass once a week, throughout the country.

LIN: And it sounds like what these people are saying is that they're worried that their donations were going for the wrong purposes, that they might be go going either for the church's legal fees, or even for hush money. Is that what you were hearing from the survey?

BUTLER: That's what we see in the survey. They want -- 79 percent of them want an accounting, a financial accounting of the cost of this crisis. We're seeing very, very high numbers on the issue of financial accountability. They don't know enough about where their donations have gone.

LIN: And when you say a final accounting, they want to know how the church handles its money, but what specifically do the parishioners want? Do they want a quarterly report, do they want more communication with the dioceses?

BUTLER: Well, two-thirds of them have said that they would like to see an audit of the church at every level. At the parish level, at the diocese level and at the national level. So they're looking right now at public accounting.

LIN: But it sounds like to me that these are people who would have a relationship with their local parish, right? At the local level. It seems like you found that people are still continuing to give money to their local parish. So where is the communications breakdown? Where is the trust breaking down?

BUTLER: Well, your point is right on. Over 80 percent have indicated that they continue to support the church. All the social scientific surveys of parishioners indicate that there's always a very high level of support for their local congregation, for the pastor, and so forth. But as you move up in the levels of administration in the church, to the diocese and to the national level, you see their attitude shifting quite a bit.

LIN: And what does this tell you? Because this is really the most detailed look at how the most committed Catholics feel about the sex abuse scandal and how it is affecting them on a very personal level.

BUTLER: Well, I think that we're into to sea change here in Catholicism. Lay people, having seen this crisis and seen the damage that it's done to the institution now are really taking a much more active role, are asking much more -- many more questions of church leaders and are demanding an accounting of the use of their funds. They're not going to be passive spectators. They're going to be active donors, I predict, in the future.

LIN: That's really interesting when you're talking about a religion that's asking on a daily basis for people's faith, you know, the faith to believe, and yet this has really become a pocketbook issue, because here we have a situation where the Archdiocese of Boston is actually threatening to declare bankruptcy. I mean, is this really going to be a pocketbook issue for the Catholic Church?

BUTLER: Well, already we're are having a lot of discussions across the country on that issue of bankruptcy. Some dioceses are honestly facing that at this moment. That's a tremendous embarrassment to the person in the pew, to see that, the church is in that kind of a shape. And I think that's probably one of the drivers behind the strong sentiments here in this survey, indicating that they would like to know what's up.

LIN: And you're going to be delivering this report to the conference of Catholic bishops, which is going to start meeting this week. Have you heard any reaction yet from them?

BUTLER: We have not. Yesterday, I delivered it to the president of the American bishops. They're going to have to have a little time to digest all of it. It's pretty strong stuff. And I'm sure that during the course of the week they'll be looking at money matters and they'll be referencing this survey.

LIN: Right. Interesting. And it will be interesting to see how it evolves, the relationship between the bishops who are asking for stronger measures against abusive priests versus the Vatican's policy. A schism there that still needs to be resolved. Thank you very much, Mr. Butler.

BUTLER: Thank you. Appreciate it.

LIN: President of the Foundations and Donors Interested in Catholic Activities.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com