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CNN Live Sunday
Interview With Michael Weisskopf
Aired November 17, 2002 - 17:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: "TIME" magazine explores several of these issues about al Qaeda and the war against terrorism in the edition hitting newsstands tomorrow. We've got a preview, things you've never even heard about on this story, as much as we've been reporting it. Michael Weisskopf is a senior correspondent for "TIME" magazine, and he joins us from Washington.
Good afternoon, Michael.
MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Hi, Carol.
LIN: Let's talk a little bit about this tape. So, U.S. officials apparently, according to your reporting, played the tape for Ramsi Binalshibh, one of the higher-ups in the al Qaeda network, who was arrested in Pakistan, a big coup for investigators -- his reaction when he heard the tape?
WEISSKOPF: As we understand, he let guards know, at least through body language, that it was his old boss, bin Laden. Others in Guantanamo, where there are now hundreds of al Qaeda followers and soldiers; several of them were interviewed, and they were able to identify specific language, which could be interpreted as a call to arms.
Now, this is in part what was so startling to government officials in Washington, in releasing that pretty stark warning of last week.
LIN: That's right, and also on this tape, what is frightening is that bin Laden names the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, and I understand it that "TIME" magazine is hearing that they may be personally targeted by al Qaeda.
WEISSKOPF: Well, that's certainly the concern, and security couldn't be tighter around those people already. He also names the secretary of defense, Rumsfeld, who of course is -- was in charge, and continues to be in charge of the war in Afghanistan.
And that's how it's been interpreted, that it could be a direct threat to those individuals.
LIN: As in an assassination attempt? I mean, we've got the NATO Summit in Prague coming up, President Bush going there, as they talk about expanding, adding the numbers of NATO members?
WEISSKOPF: It's certainly of immediate concern. What's frustrating to investigators on our side is, that although there may be a call to arms, it's impossible to know what the timing is. So, that really is left to the discretion of sleeper cells, and operatives on the ground.
So, it could be any time from now until Christmas, or later.
LIN: And other clues on the tape, heavy breathing, which may give us an idea of his state of health, bin Laden's state of health.
WEISSKOPF: Yes, one of the big questions is why he decided to do this as an audiotape, as opposed to a videotape. Certainly security is an issue. It's possible sometimes to -- through videotapes to see things, which will identify a location.
There's also the thinking that his appearance is altered, either through a wound, illness, or even some kind of plastic -- some type of plastic surgery in order to disguise him. And that he would not want to be pictured that way. And as a result they used what turned out to be a very scratchy audiotape that was passed through several channels before it reached American audiences.
LIN: Right. Of course, the big question is, Where is Osama bin Laden, where could he have been this recording and distribute it? Lots of speculation, we keep hearing over and again, that he is in the tribal territories along in Pakistan, along the Afghan border.
I'm taking -- I'm showing our audience right now some videotape, because I was actually living in those territories, these tribal territories where you're seeing right now a Pakistani tribal warrior armed with an automatic weapons, which is illegal according to the Musharraf government, but in these tribal territories it is so lawless, that they live and die by the word of their tribal chief, and this is an area where investigators believe that a man like Osama bin Laden could find protection.
Any idea of where he might be hiding, and how it is that U.S. forces can get to him if he is in these Pakistani tribal lands?
WEISSKOPF: Well, best thinking if there had to be a location, he could be in Peshawar, which is the biggest city in this frontier area in western Pakistan. The odds are he's not in one of the large Pakistani cities where Ramsi Binalshibh was, and others who've been apprehended. Reason being is it's much harder to avoid detection in a place like that, and of course Binalshibh was arrested.
Another man, by the name of Zubaydah, who was a top lieutenant, was arrested in a Pakistani city as well. So, it's -- the thinking is, he probably moves in a fairly small circumference in this lawless tribal area, which is so politically treacherous to President Musharraf that he does not permit American commandos to enter that area.
The hope is that over time, they will become part of the larger nation-building area there, and show greater loyalty to Musharraf, and at that point will no longer be refuge to people like bin Laden. LIN: That is a long road, because the tribal warlord I was the guest of was basically opposing any sort of U.S. force presence in those tribal territories. He has an army of a half a million gunmen at his personnel disposal.
WEISSKOPF: Yes.
LIN: Heavily armed, and often times sympathetic with the bin Laden movement.
WEISSKOPF: Not susceptible to either, and also to the reward offer, the $25 million reward offer. It's both because of ideology and suspicion that the money wouldn't reach them. It's not much of an inducement here.
LIN: Right, oftentimes there are other incentives other than money in the region, as they're loyal to their customs and traditions. Michael Weisskopf, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 17, 2002 - 17:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: "TIME" magazine explores several of these issues about al Qaeda and the war against terrorism in the edition hitting newsstands tomorrow. We've got a preview, things you've never even heard about on this story, as much as we've been reporting it. Michael Weisskopf is a senior correspondent for "TIME" magazine, and he joins us from Washington.
Good afternoon, Michael.
MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Hi, Carol.
LIN: Let's talk a little bit about this tape. So, U.S. officials apparently, according to your reporting, played the tape for Ramsi Binalshibh, one of the higher-ups in the al Qaeda network, who was arrested in Pakistan, a big coup for investigators -- his reaction when he heard the tape?
WEISSKOPF: As we understand, he let guards know, at least through body language, that it was his old boss, bin Laden. Others in Guantanamo, where there are now hundreds of al Qaeda followers and soldiers; several of them were interviewed, and they were able to identify specific language, which could be interpreted as a call to arms.
Now, this is in part what was so startling to government officials in Washington, in releasing that pretty stark warning of last week.
LIN: That's right, and also on this tape, what is frightening is that bin Laden names the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, and I understand it that "TIME" magazine is hearing that they may be personally targeted by al Qaeda.
WEISSKOPF: Well, that's certainly the concern, and security couldn't be tighter around those people already. He also names the secretary of defense, Rumsfeld, who of course is -- was in charge, and continues to be in charge of the war in Afghanistan.
And that's how it's been interpreted, that it could be a direct threat to those individuals.
LIN: As in an assassination attempt? I mean, we've got the NATO Summit in Prague coming up, President Bush going there, as they talk about expanding, adding the numbers of NATO members?
WEISSKOPF: It's certainly of immediate concern. What's frustrating to investigators on our side is, that although there may be a call to arms, it's impossible to know what the timing is. So, that really is left to the discretion of sleeper cells, and operatives on the ground.
So, it could be any time from now until Christmas, or later.
LIN: And other clues on the tape, heavy breathing, which may give us an idea of his state of health, bin Laden's state of health.
WEISSKOPF: Yes, one of the big questions is why he decided to do this as an audiotape, as opposed to a videotape. Certainly security is an issue. It's possible sometimes to -- through videotapes to see things, which will identify a location.
There's also the thinking that his appearance is altered, either through a wound, illness, or even some kind of plastic -- some type of plastic surgery in order to disguise him. And that he would not want to be pictured that way. And as a result they used what turned out to be a very scratchy audiotape that was passed through several channels before it reached American audiences.
LIN: Right. Of course, the big question is, Where is Osama bin Laden, where could he have been this recording and distribute it? Lots of speculation, we keep hearing over and again, that he is in the tribal territories along in Pakistan, along the Afghan border.
I'm taking -- I'm showing our audience right now some videotape, because I was actually living in those territories, these tribal territories where you're seeing right now a Pakistani tribal warrior armed with an automatic weapons, which is illegal according to the Musharraf government, but in these tribal territories it is so lawless, that they live and die by the word of their tribal chief, and this is an area where investigators believe that a man like Osama bin Laden could find protection.
Any idea of where he might be hiding, and how it is that U.S. forces can get to him if he is in these Pakistani tribal lands?
WEISSKOPF: Well, best thinking if there had to be a location, he could be in Peshawar, which is the biggest city in this frontier area in western Pakistan. The odds are he's not in one of the large Pakistani cities where Ramsi Binalshibh was, and others who've been apprehended. Reason being is it's much harder to avoid detection in a place like that, and of course Binalshibh was arrested.
Another man, by the name of Zubaydah, who was a top lieutenant, was arrested in a Pakistani city as well. So, it's -- the thinking is, he probably moves in a fairly small circumference in this lawless tribal area, which is so politically treacherous to President Musharraf that he does not permit American commandos to enter that area.
The hope is that over time, they will become part of the larger nation-building area there, and show greater loyalty to Musharraf, and at that point will no longer be refuge to people like bin Laden. LIN: That is a long road, because the tribal warlord I was the guest of was basically opposing any sort of U.S. force presence in those tribal territories. He has an army of a half a million gunmen at his personnel disposal.
WEISSKOPF: Yes.
LIN: Heavily armed, and often times sympathetic with the bin Laden movement.
WEISSKOPF: Not susceptible to either, and also to the reward offer, the $25 million reward offer. It's both because of ideology and suspicion that the money wouldn't reach them. It's not much of an inducement here.
LIN: Right, oftentimes there are other incentives other than money in the region, as they're loyal to their customs and traditions. Michael Weisskopf, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
