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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Jim Walsh

Aired November 24, 2002 - 17:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: As for the focus of these inspections? Well, Saddam Hussein's suspected stockpile of chemical and biological weapons, weapons so deadly that U.S. forces' protection gear may not be enough protection after all. There are reports that Iraq has imported tons of a fine, powdery substance to produce deadly dusty weapons, so-called dusty weapons. Jim Walsh is an international security expert at Harvard University, and he joins us from Boston. Thank you very much for being here.
JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT: Happy to be here, Carol.

LIN: A quick definition of what exactly is a dusty weapon?

WALSH: Well, a dusty chemical weapon is when you take a chemical agent, a nerve gas, a mustard gas, and combine it together with another material. It could be talc, it could be a powder-like substance. And the result is, rather than having a liquid chemical weapon, you have this powder in aerosol form that hangs in the air, is dispersed over a wider area, and like any dust, the dust we deal with in our households every day, it gets into nooks and crannies and through seams.

LIN: It sounds easy to make, but in fact it really isn't. So what does the United States actually know about Iraq's capability to manufacture a dusty weapon?

WALSH: Well, there is evidence that suggests that Iraq did during the Iran/Iraq war use a dusty form of mustard gas. But what people are concerned about is whether they have been able to follow that path and develop a dusty nerve agent, VX gasses. If that was true, that would be particularly troubling. Those are much more lethal, and the concern is that if they developed such a thing, that it might be able to penetrate some of the protective clothing and other measures that U.S. troops will be taking on the ground to protect themselves from these sorts of agents.

LIN: That's right, if anybody's wondering how deadly VX nerve gas can be, I mean, just a single drop can be fatal. But what I don't understand in this situation is why is it that this form of VX could actually penetrate the chemical suits that the U.S. forces have?

WALSH: Well, because they're not air tight, fully sealable. So there is air that gets in and out of the suit. And that -- even if that crevice is very, very, very small, if those agents are placed on a very, very, very, very small particle, it's able to weave its way to get in and penetrate them. There's one DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency report that suggests that that form of VX, the dusty version of VX, would be able to penetrate the suits and might result in fatality rates for U.S. servicemen and women from 3 to 38 percent, so that's very, very high.

LIN: Yeah. Now, the U.S. military is saying, well, if these men and women just throw ponchos over their protective gear, that's going to be enough, that extra layer of protection. Do you believe that?

WALSH: Well, I'm sure that's true. I'm not sure how that's going to work operationally when you're on a field of battle. I'm sure that the U.S. government is worried about this. They're obviously aware of this.

Chemical weapons were the core weapons of weapons of mass destruction that Iraq had. Now, they were pursuing others, but what they had, what they deployed, and what they used were chemical weapons. And so I'm sure they anticipate that Iraq has continued work in this area. It's the easiest for them to reconstitute. I'm sure they're trying to come up with different ways to deal with this.

LIN: All right. Well, let's hope so. Thank you very much, Jim Walsh, from the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.

WALSH: Thank you, Carol.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 24, 2002 - 17:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: As for the focus of these inspections? Well, Saddam Hussein's suspected stockpile of chemical and biological weapons, weapons so deadly that U.S. forces' protection gear may not be enough protection after all. There are reports that Iraq has imported tons of a fine, powdery substance to produce deadly dusty weapons, so-called dusty weapons. Jim Walsh is an international security expert at Harvard University, and he joins us from Boston. Thank you very much for being here.
JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT: Happy to be here, Carol.

LIN: A quick definition of what exactly is a dusty weapon?

WALSH: Well, a dusty chemical weapon is when you take a chemical agent, a nerve gas, a mustard gas, and combine it together with another material. It could be talc, it could be a powder-like substance. And the result is, rather than having a liquid chemical weapon, you have this powder in aerosol form that hangs in the air, is dispersed over a wider area, and like any dust, the dust we deal with in our households every day, it gets into nooks and crannies and through seams.

LIN: It sounds easy to make, but in fact it really isn't. So what does the United States actually know about Iraq's capability to manufacture a dusty weapon?

WALSH: Well, there is evidence that suggests that Iraq did during the Iran/Iraq war use a dusty form of mustard gas. But what people are concerned about is whether they have been able to follow that path and develop a dusty nerve agent, VX gasses. If that was true, that would be particularly troubling. Those are much more lethal, and the concern is that if they developed such a thing, that it might be able to penetrate some of the protective clothing and other measures that U.S. troops will be taking on the ground to protect themselves from these sorts of agents.

LIN: That's right, if anybody's wondering how deadly VX nerve gas can be, I mean, just a single drop can be fatal. But what I don't understand in this situation is why is it that this form of VX could actually penetrate the chemical suits that the U.S. forces have?

WALSH: Well, because they're not air tight, fully sealable. So there is air that gets in and out of the suit. And that -- even if that crevice is very, very, very small, if those agents are placed on a very, very, very, very small particle, it's able to weave its way to get in and penetrate them. There's one DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency report that suggests that that form of VX, the dusty version of VX, would be able to penetrate the suits and might result in fatality rates for U.S. servicemen and women from 3 to 38 percent, so that's very, very high.

LIN: Yeah. Now, the U.S. military is saying, well, if these men and women just throw ponchos over their protective gear, that's going to be enough, that extra layer of protection. Do you believe that?

WALSH: Well, I'm sure that's true. I'm not sure how that's going to work operationally when you're on a field of battle. I'm sure that the U.S. government is worried about this. They're obviously aware of this.

Chemical weapons were the core weapons of weapons of mass destruction that Iraq had. Now, they were pursuing others, but what they had, what they deployed, and what they used were chemical weapons. And so I'm sure they anticipate that Iraq has continued work in this area. It's the easiest for them to reconstitute. I'm sure they're trying to come up with different ways to deal with this.

LIN: All right. Well, let's hope so. Thank you very much, Jim Walsh, from the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.

WALSH: Thank you, Carol.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com