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CNN Live Sunday

Showdown: Iraq -- the Deadline

Aired December 08, 2002 - 16:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A challenge from Iraqi officials today to the U.S. and Britain, refutes the declaration that Iraq is free of weapons of mass destruction. U.N. experts already are poring over some of those documents, while back in Iraq inspectors continue their search. It's now just after midnight there, and on duty is CNN's Rym Brahimi.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, that declaration was the subject of a briefing that we were given just a few hours ago by President Saddam Hussein's top scientific adviser, General Amer Al- Saadi. He told us that he wasn't really happy that the inspectors were here, although they were cooperating. He also went into great detail about the content of the declaration.

He was asked by a journalist if there was still any nerve agents that the previous teams of inspectors had said were unaccounted for, some of those VX nerve agents. Well, General Amer Al-Saadi told us that Baghdad had nothing to declare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. AMER AL-SAADI, IRAQI SCIENCE ADVISER: There is an implication in your question that VX still exists. I have said that nothing of the previous program exists. Our problem now is to produce the complete evidence of the picture of the biological program.

We have presented documents regarding -- supporting documents. Now, those documents have not been increased since then, not by a single document, because we have done all the searching we could, and we could not find any more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRAHIMI: He told us also that there were a lot of details in that declaration regarding Iraq's past weapons programs. A lot of it about the nuclear programs, and things that were happening not only in the past, but also recently, talking about the dual activities of Iraq's industry. For instance, those activities that could be -- that are used for civilian purposes, like the agricultural or pharmaceutical industry, but that could be seen as being used for potentially military purposes.

Now, it's been a very busy day meanwhile here in Baghdad for the inspectors. They've had some reinforcements, but they went out on two sites, two teams as usual, Fredricka. One of them went to a site inside Baghdad, a geological survey place, and the other team, the chemical and biological experts, went to a site some 100 kilometers northwest of Baghdad. And that was a pesticide factory. Let's see what they were doing there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): At Saddam International Airport, reinforcements for the U.N. weapons inspections teams. Twenty-one nuclear experts were on board this flight. So was more monitoring equipment, and ferried in on the same plane one of several helicopters which will enable the inspectors to quickly fly to remote sites.

On this day, UNMOVIC inspectors headed west in their convoy of white jeeps, speeding along at about 90 miles an hour, trailed by Iraqi officials who were not given any heads-up on the destination.

About an hour outside Baghdad, the inspectors pulled up to what Iraq says is a factory that makes pesticides and rat poison. The sites known to previous U.N. inspectors as Al-Fallujah 3, belongs to Iraq's huge military/industrial complex. It's believed to have been in the past part of the support facilities of the notorious Al-Musana (ph) site, once central to Iraq's chemical weapons program.

Iraq says the site has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction. "If you want proof," says the factory director, "just look at the birds."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The birds are here inside of the storeroom. There's stock of our production, pesticides. Look at them, living and flying. This is evidence that our production is nontoxic and not harmful. Because birds are more sensitive than men.

BRAHIMI: All the U.N. would tell us is that the equipment, which was tagged here by previous inspectors, was still here intact.

The facility was bombed during the 1991 Gulf War, and again in 1998. Iraq says production of pesticides and herbicides resumed after that, to supply the Ministry of Agricultural as well as individual consumers.

Inside the facility, no one was wearing the required protective gear. They could certainly use it, given the very powerful odors in this factory.

The inspectors certainly played it safe, wearing protective clothing as they searched this sprawling site for more than five hours.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRAHIMI: Well, you can probably see, Fredricka, that's a huge site in itself. And the inspectors have at least 700 of those sites to see. That's just for the beginning. Now with the declaration that Iraq has handed over, there might be even more. So they're probably going to be very, very happy to have those reinforcements that arrived today -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: All right. Rym, thank you very much.

Well, the bulk of Iraq's declaration is due to arrive at U.N. headquarters this evening. But it's going to be a number of days before it's distributed to the members of the Security Council. CNN's Michael Okwu joins us from the U.N. to explain why -- Michael.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, it may be a number of days until members of the Security Council actually get their hands on the document, because it will likely include information about how to make weapons of mass destruction. Members of the Security Council very concerned that this information could fall into the wrong hands.

So they've all decided that the chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix will be the first person, the first official to actually get a very clear look at this document. And he will begin a long process of actually extracting, essentially editing out sections that he deems to be too sensitive.

We understand that he will receive the document, or at least his office will at some point around 8:00 Eastern Standard time, although that has not yet been officially confirmed. This will be the last stop for the 12,000-page document, CD-Roms, and file folders that make up the declaration. It was handed to U.N. officials in Baghdad yesterday, of course, ahead of the deadline, and flown to a U.N. staging ground in Cyprus. Sections of the document having to do with nuclear programs were put on a flight to Vienna, where a U.N. official handed it to the -- into the headquarters of the IAEA.

Now, the declaration is considered by the United Nations as something of a baseline of truth. So right away, immediately, it should be able to be used as a guideline for U.N. inspectors on the ground in Baghdad, telling them where they might be able to look, and what they might be looking for.

But in the meantime, of course, Hans Blix and his associates will have to begin the very busy work of translating long sections of this document, which are mainly in Arabic, and then sort of sifting through it and having consultations with the Security Council before actually giving them an opportunity to read it -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Michael Okwu, thank you very much from the U.N.

To say the White House is skeptical of Iraq's weapons report would be an understatement. For months, the president has maintained Iraqis have been lying about their weapons programs. CNN's Frank Buckley is at the White House, where officials are playing it cool so far -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Fredricka. White House officials are still waiting to see exactly what's in the declaration. But yes, they are skeptical. We got a sense of that through the statement that was issued yesterday by Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, when he said that Iraq has submitted what it claims to be a declaration.

Today President Bush arrived back here at the White House via Marine One. He had spent the weekend at Camp David. He did not respond to questions on the declaration. But White House officials say they will take the time required to properly review the declaration.

Few people here or on Capitol Hill, though, expect the declaration to reveal the full extent of the Iraqi weapons program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D), FLORIDA: So it will be sometime before we know just what the report actually says. But if it purports to say that there are no weapons of mass destruction, nor any capability of develop weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that is not truthful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: U.S. intelligence officials say it's a matter of record that Iraq has developed and deployed weapons of mass destruction. They say now it's up to Iraq to prove that they have disarmed -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, Frank, if Hans Blix is the first to get the official document, is there any way the White House would know what those -- you know, if those translations would in any way be shared with the White House? Would they go that far before the entire Security Council would peruse through them?

BUCKLEY: It doesn't appear as though the White House is going to get some sort of an advanced copy. It's our belief that Hans Blix will get the first copy, that, as Michael was saying, portions of it will be taken out that could proliferate nuclear weapons in other countries. Then it will be distributed to the Security Council. The U.S., being a member of the Security Council, will then get a copy of the declaration. And that's when the process for the U.S. will begin of going through that 12,000 pages of data.

WHITFIELD: All right. Frank, thank you very much.

U.S. military officials don't expect the document handover to change their strategy against Iraq. Should there be a war, the idea is to get in and get out. CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is at her post with more on their rapid response plan -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you again, Fredricka. Well, it has indeed been a very quiet weekend here at the Pentagon. Because interestingly, this Iraqi declaration really does not change much for the U.S. military. Their planning continues. The routine training exercises continue. There are a number of deployments under way. But this declaration really doesn't change anything. They are on a timetable.

And frankly, at the moment, they're in a bit of a holding pattern, because the feeling is they now need to wait and see if and when President Bush makes a decision to initiate military action against Iraq, and then they will move to the next step, which will be a large flow of thousands and thousands of troops and large amounts of equipment to the region.

But that simply has not taken place yet. There are something like 40,000 or better troops in the immediate Persian Gulf region. A number of them, as we have discussed, are on training exercises. There is that exercise coming up in Qatar, where the Central Command will establish an exercise to train and see how they can conduct a war against Iraq.

That is not a live fire exercise, of course. That's General Tommy Franks and his men at a command post exercise simply seeing how they can communicate with their commanders in the region if there is war against Iraq.

But at this point, everything is sort of in a status quo position. The Pentagon's view is if and when President Bush makes a decision, there will be a rapid movement of forces into Iraq. The strategy is to move very quickly, cut off Saddam Hussein, cut off his communications with his own military forces, neutralize any suspected weapons of mass destruction sites, place forces in western Iraq as a hedge of safety against any Iraqi incursion or movement against Israel.

But all of this is in the weeks ahead, after a decision is made. Pentagon and military sources have said what they don't want to do is move large numbers of troops and equipment to the region, and then have them sit there for weeks while President Bush reviews the U.N. documents, while the diplomatic process continues to play out. So they're getting ready, but they're not moving any more just at this time -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Barbara, if indeed there is war waged, and you talk about this potential strategy of cutting off communication, would that happen simultaneously with seeking out Saddam Hussein as well? Is that at the top of that agenda?

STARR: One of the phrases you hear around here is called decapitation. The decapitation strategy essentially is cutting off Saddam from his forces. No communications with his forces. Their belief is that he will probably run to one of his underground bunkers deep underneath Baghdad, where he feels safe. But if they can cut off his communications, they believe essentially that begins the process of regime change. He will not be in control of his military. The U.S. can then move in.

The belief is that much of the Iraqi military simply won't fight. These are not well equipped forces in most parts of Iraq, and that there is a belief most of them will give up.

Of course, the great unknown is the elite Republican Guard in and around Baghdad. They are sworn to protect Saddam Hussein. If anyone is going to fight back against a U.S. military operation, it will be them. And that remains the Pentagon's biggest concern, drawn into some sort of urban warfare scenario in Baghdad. They want to avoid it by this process of cutting Saddam off from his troops.

And if they can do that, they believe they have essentially began to solve the problem -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much, Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired December 8, 2002 - 16:01   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A challenge from Iraqi officials today to the U.S. and Britain, refutes the declaration that Iraq is free of weapons of mass destruction. U.N. experts already are poring over some of those documents, while back in Iraq inspectors continue their search. It's now just after midnight there, and on duty is CNN's Rym Brahimi.
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, that declaration was the subject of a briefing that we were given just a few hours ago by President Saddam Hussein's top scientific adviser, General Amer Al- Saadi. He told us that he wasn't really happy that the inspectors were here, although they were cooperating. He also went into great detail about the content of the declaration.

He was asked by a journalist if there was still any nerve agents that the previous teams of inspectors had said were unaccounted for, some of those VX nerve agents. Well, General Amer Al-Saadi told us that Baghdad had nothing to declare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. AMER AL-SAADI, IRAQI SCIENCE ADVISER: There is an implication in your question that VX still exists. I have said that nothing of the previous program exists. Our problem now is to produce the complete evidence of the picture of the biological program.

We have presented documents regarding -- supporting documents. Now, those documents have not been increased since then, not by a single document, because we have done all the searching we could, and we could not find any more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRAHIMI: He told us also that there were a lot of details in that declaration regarding Iraq's past weapons programs. A lot of it about the nuclear programs, and things that were happening not only in the past, but also recently, talking about the dual activities of Iraq's industry. For instance, those activities that could be -- that are used for civilian purposes, like the agricultural or pharmaceutical industry, but that could be seen as being used for potentially military purposes.

Now, it's been a very busy day meanwhile here in Baghdad for the inspectors. They've had some reinforcements, but they went out on two sites, two teams as usual, Fredricka. One of them went to a site inside Baghdad, a geological survey place, and the other team, the chemical and biological experts, went to a site some 100 kilometers northwest of Baghdad. And that was a pesticide factory. Let's see what they were doing there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): At Saddam International Airport, reinforcements for the U.N. weapons inspections teams. Twenty-one nuclear experts were on board this flight. So was more monitoring equipment, and ferried in on the same plane one of several helicopters which will enable the inspectors to quickly fly to remote sites.

On this day, UNMOVIC inspectors headed west in their convoy of white jeeps, speeding along at about 90 miles an hour, trailed by Iraqi officials who were not given any heads-up on the destination.

About an hour outside Baghdad, the inspectors pulled up to what Iraq says is a factory that makes pesticides and rat poison. The sites known to previous U.N. inspectors as Al-Fallujah 3, belongs to Iraq's huge military/industrial complex. It's believed to have been in the past part of the support facilities of the notorious Al-Musana (ph) site, once central to Iraq's chemical weapons program.

Iraq says the site has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction. "If you want proof," says the factory director, "just look at the birds."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The birds are here inside of the storeroom. There's stock of our production, pesticides. Look at them, living and flying. This is evidence that our production is nontoxic and not harmful. Because birds are more sensitive than men.

BRAHIMI: All the U.N. would tell us is that the equipment, which was tagged here by previous inspectors, was still here intact.

The facility was bombed during the 1991 Gulf War, and again in 1998. Iraq says production of pesticides and herbicides resumed after that, to supply the Ministry of Agricultural as well as individual consumers.

Inside the facility, no one was wearing the required protective gear. They could certainly use it, given the very powerful odors in this factory.

The inspectors certainly played it safe, wearing protective clothing as they searched this sprawling site for more than five hours.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRAHIMI: Well, you can probably see, Fredricka, that's a huge site in itself. And the inspectors have at least 700 of those sites to see. That's just for the beginning. Now with the declaration that Iraq has handed over, there might be even more. So they're probably going to be very, very happy to have those reinforcements that arrived today -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: All right. Rym, thank you very much.

Well, the bulk of Iraq's declaration is due to arrive at U.N. headquarters this evening. But it's going to be a number of days before it's distributed to the members of the Security Council. CNN's Michael Okwu joins us from the U.N. to explain why -- Michael.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, it may be a number of days until members of the Security Council actually get their hands on the document, because it will likely include information about how to make weapons of mass destruction. Members of the Security Council very concerned that this information could fall into the wrong hands.

So they've all decided that the chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix will be the first person, the first official to actually get a very clear look at this document. And he will begin a long process of actually extracting, essentially editing out sections that he deems to be too sensitive.

We understand that he will receive the document, or at least his office will at some point around 8:00 Eastern Standard time, although that has not yet been officially confirmed. This will be the last stop for the 12,000-page document, CD-Roms, and file folders that make up the declaration. It was handed to U.N. officials in Baghdad yesterday, of course, ahead of the deadline, and flown to a U.N. staging ground in Cyprus. Sections of the document having to do with nuclear programs were put on a flight to Vienna, where a U.N. official handed it to the -- into the headquarters of the IAEA.

Now, the declaration is considered by the United Nations as something of a baseline of truth. So right away, immediately, it should be able to be used as a guideline for U.N. inspectors on the ground in Baghdad, telling them where they might be able to look, and what they might be looking for.

But in the meantime, of course, Hans Blix and his associates will have to begin the very busy work of translating long sections of this document, which are mainly in Arabic, and then sort of sifting through it and having consultations with the Security Council before actually giving them an opportunity to read it -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Michael Okwu, thank you very much from the U.N.

To say the White House is skeptical of Iraq's weapons report would be an understatement. For months, the president has maintained Iraqis have been lying about their weapons programs. CNN's Frank Buckley is at the White House, where officials are playing it cool so far -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Fredricka. White House officials are still waiting to see exactly what's in the declaration. But yes, they are skeptical. We got a sense of that through the statement that was issued yesterday by Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, when he said that Iraq has submitted what it claims to be a declaration.

Today President Bush arrived back here at the White House via Marine One. He had spent the weekend at Camp David. He did not respond to questions on the declaration. But White House officials say they will take the time required to properly review the declaration.

Few people here or on Capitol Hill, though, expect the declaration to reveal the full extent of the Iraqi weapons program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D), FLORIDA: So it will be sometime before we know just what the report actually says. But if it purports to say that there are no weapons of mass destruction, nor any capability of develop weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that is not truthful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: U.S. intelligence officials say it's a matter of record that Iraq has developed and deployed weapons of mass destruction. They say now it's up to Iraq to prove that they have disarmed -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, Frank, if Hans Blix is the first to get the official document, is there any way the White House would know what those -- you know, if those translations would in any way be shared with the White House? Would they go that far before the entire Security Council would peruse through them?

BUCKLEY: It doesn't appear as though the White House is going to get some sort of an advanced copy. It's our belief that Hans Blix will get the first copy, that, as Michael was saying, portions of it will be taken out that could proliferate nuclear weapons in other countries. Then it will be distributed to the Security Council. The U.S., being a member of the Security Council, will then get a copy of the declaration. And that's when the process for the U.S. will begin of going through that 12,000 pages of data.

WHITFIELD: All right. Frank, thank you very much.

U.S. military officials don't expect the document handover to change their strategy against Iraq. Should there be a war, the idea is to get in and get out. CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is at her post with more on their rapid response plan -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you again, Fredricka. Well, it has indeed been a very quiet weekend here at the Pentagon. Because interestingly, this Iraqi declaration really does not change much for the U.S. military. Their planning continues. The routine training exercises continue. There are a number of deployments under way. But this declaration really doesn't change anything. They are on a timetable.

And frankly, at the moment, they're in a bit of a holding pattern, because the feeling is they now need to wait and see if and when President Bush makes a decision to initiate military action against Iraq, and then they will move to the next step, which will be a large flow of thousands and thousands of troops and large amounts of equipment to the region.

But that simply has not taken place yet. There are something like 40,000 or better troops in the immediate Persian Gulf region. A number of them, as we have discussed, are on training exercises. There is that exercise coming up in Qatar, where the Central Command will establish an exercise to train and see how they can conduct a war against Iraq.

That is not a live fire exercise, of course. That's General Tommy Franks and his men at a command post exercise simply seeing how they can communicate with their commanders in the region if there is war against Iraq.

But at this point, everything is sort of in a status quo position. The Pentagon's view is if and when President Bush makes a decision, there will be a rapid movement of forces into Iraq. The strategy is to move very quickly, cut off Saddam Hussein, cut off his communications with his own military forces, neutralize any suspected weapons of mass destruction sites, place forces in western Iraq as a hedge of safety against any Iraqi incursion or movement against Israel.

But all of this is in the weeks ahead, after a decision is made. Pentagon and military sources have said what they don't want to do is move large numbers of troops and equipment to the region, and then have them sit there for weeks while President Bush reviews the U.N. documents, while the diplomatic process continues to play out. So they're getting ready, but they're not moving any more just at this time -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Barbara, if indeed there is war waged, and you talk about this potential strategy of cutting off communication, would that happen simultaneously with seeking out Saddam Hussein as well? Is that at the top of that agenda?

STARR: One of the phrases you hear around here is called decapitation. The decapitation strategy essentially is cutting off Saddam from his forces. No communications with his forces. Their belief is that he will probably run to one of his underground bunkers deep underneath Baghdad, where he feels safe. But if they can cut off his communications, they believe essentially that begins the process of regime change. He will not be in control of his military. The U.S. can then move in.

The belief is that much of the Iraqi military simply won't fight. These are not well equipped forces in most parts of Iraq, and that there is a belief most of them will give up.

Of course, the great unknown is the elite Republican Guard in and around Baghdad. They are sworn to protect Saddam Hussein. If anyone is going to fight back against a U.S. military operation, it will be them. And that remains the Pentagon's biggest concern, drawn into some sort of urban warfare scenario in Baghdad. They want to avoid it by this process of cutting Saddam off from his troops.

And if they can do that, they believe they have essentially began to solve the problem -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks very much, Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com