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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Scott Appleby

Aired December 08, 2002 - 18:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The Catholic Church is now fighting battles over the nationwide sex abuse scandal on several fronts. In Boston, the archdiocese finally turned over documents that lawyers say expose shocking new cases of sex and drug abuse with teenage girls.
In New Hampshire, a grand jury is considering a criminal indictment against the Manchester Diocese for child endangerment and bishops in California warn ten million parishioners that the state's liberal new statute of limitations law could allow for a flood of abuse lawsuits that would threaten church ministries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE: We anticipate that new lawsuits, some involving very old allegations, will be filed against diocese in California. We bishops stand ready to respond to legitimate claims by victims of abuse. The Catholic Church has been falsely portrayed as a large corporation with deep pockets. In reality, the vast majority of Catholic assets belong to the people of our parishes, schools, charities, and other institutions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: With more on all of this, Notre Dame Professor Scott Appleby is on the telephone from South Bend, Indiana. Professor Appleby, thank you very much for joining us.

SCOTT APPLEBY, PROF., UNIV. OF NOTRE DAME: Thank you.

LIN: It just seems never ending. I mean give us some historical context here. Where is this going?

APPLEBY: Well, who's to say where it's going. Unfortunately, this is the most serious crisis faced by the Catholic Church in the United States and we're in the second wave of it now. As Cardinal Mahony was just quoted saying, it's open season on the Catholic Church, and on the one hand there's no doubt that the Catholic Church has offended by not managing and containing the crisis that has built up over really 30 years. On the other hand, there will now be a flood of lawsuits, some of which will be motivated one has to think by the perception that the church is very vulnerable and indeed it has deep pockets.

LIN: Well, doesn't it?

APPLEBY: No, not really. I mean certainly the perception is that there's a great wealth in the church and in one way of understanding the church, one could say that. The Vatican owns real estate, various diocese do, but for people to think that the Vatican or that Rome is going to bail out any particular diocese, that's really ludicrous.

That's not going to happen and in many of the diocese there are not assets that can be easily liquidated and a great deal of the money and the finances of the local diocese do go to education, to social service programs, to working with the poor and the hungry. There are assets that could be sold off and that's likely going to continue to happen but it's not the case that this is just an institution with limitless resources.

LIN: So what are the implications then when an archdiocese, for example the size of Boston, actually says or is threatening to declare bankruptcy?

APPLEBY: Well, that would be the first archdiocese to declare bankruptcy and it would be a terrible crisis on a number of levels, including the religious and the spiritual level because it would be tantamount to also declaring a kind of spiritual bankruptcy which many Boston Catholics and Catholics around the country are already saying or feeling, that the leadership in Boston has been bankrupt and to go into bankruptcy has that kind of emotional and psychological impact.

It may or may not be a shrewd legal and financial move and right now I think the feeling is still that we're not quite there yet in terms of really believing that the archdiocese will go in that direction. But should it go in that direction, it would be a big blow to the church in Boston and I think to the church around the country.

LIN: So, Professor Appleby what is the Catholic Church to do for itself? How can it save itself?

APPLEBY: Well, it has to have a combination and this is a difficult combination I think of being shrewd, legally and financially, and at the same time be attentive pastorally to the laity. The ready of the letter in California could be read a number of ways.

It could be read as an attempt to prepare the ground legally, to prepare a defense for the church among the laity, but even if that's the case it's good news that the church is speaking about this crisis in the pews, in the churches, because one of the things that's been lacking over the last number of months has been open, honest, consistent communication between the bishops and the clergy, between the clergy and the laity.

So, any move in that direction even if it's part of kind of a larger strategy to get out the church's message that we are not just here for the plucking, that's good news.

LIN: Right. Right and parishioners are demanding it as well now. Thank you very much Professor Scott Appleby from Notre Dame.

APPLEBY: Thank you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 8, 2002 - 18:23   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The Catholic Church is now fighting battles over the nationwide sex abuse scandal on several fronts. In Boston, the archdiocese finally turned over documents that lawyers say expose shocking new cases of sex and drug abuse with teenage girls.
In New Hampshire, a grand jury is considering a criminal indictment against the Manchester Diocese for child endangerment and bishops in California warn ten million parishioners that the state's liberal new statute of limitations law could allow for a flood of abuse lawsuits that would threaten church ministries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE: We anticipate that new lawsuits, some involving very old allegations, will be filed against diocese in California. We bishops stand ready to respond to legitimate claims by victims of abuse. The Catholic Church has been falsely portrayed as a large corporation with deep pockets. In reality, the vast majority of Catholic assets belong to the people of our parishes, schools, charities, and other institutions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: With more on all of this, Notre Dame Professor Scott Appleby is on the telephone from South Bend, Indiana. Professor Appleby, thank you very much for joining us.

SCOTT APPLEBY, PROF., UNIV. OF NOTRE DAME: Thank you.

LIN: It just seems never ending. I mean give us some historical context here. Where is this going?

APPLEBY: Well, who's to say where it's going. Unfortunately, this is the most serious crisis faced by the Catholic Church in the United States and we're in the second wave of it now. As Cardinal Mahony was just quoted saying, it's open season on the Catholic Church, and on the one hand there's no doubt that the Catholic Church has offended by not managing and containing the crisis that has built up over really 30 years. On the other hand, there will now be a flood of lawsuits, some of which will be motivated one has to think by the perception that the church is very vulnerable and indeed it has deep pockets.

LIN: Well, doesn't it?

APPLEBY: No, not really. I mean certainly the perception is that there's a great wealth in the church and in one way of understanding the church, one could say that. The Vatican owns real estate, various diocese do, but for people to think that the Vatican or that Rome is going to bail out any particular diocese, that's really ludicrous.

That's not going to happen and in many of the diocese there are not assets that can be easily liquidated and a great deal of the money and the finances of the local diocese do go to education, to social service programs, to working with the poor and the hungry. There are assets that could be sold off and that's likely going to continue to happen but it's not the case that this is just an institution with limitless resources.

LIN: So what are the implications then when an archdiocese, for example the size of Boston, actually says or is threatening to declare bankruptcy?

APPLEBY: Well, that would be the first archdiocese to declare bankruptcy and it would be a terrible crisis on a number of levels, including the religious and the spiritual level because it would be tantamount to also declaring a kind of spiritual bankruptcy which many Boston Catholics and Catholics around the country are already saying or feeling, that the leadership in Boston has been bankrupt and to go into bankruptcy has that kind of emotional and psychological impact.

It may or may not be a shrewd legal and financial move and right now I think the feeling is still that we're not quite there yet in terms of really believing that the archdiocese will go in that direction. But should it go in that direction, it would be a big blow to the church in Boston and I think to the church around the country.

LIN: So, Professor Appleby what is the Catholic Church to do for itself? How can it save itself?

APPLEBY: Well, it has to have a combination and this is a difficult combination I think of being shrewd, legally and financially, and at the same time be attentive pastorally to the laity. The ready of the letter in California could be read a number of ways.

It could be read as an attempt to prepare the ground legally, to prepare a defense for the church among the laity, but even if that's the case it's good news that the church is speaking about this crisis in the pews, in the churches, because one of the things that's been lacking over the last number of months has been open, honest, consistent communication between the bishops and the clergy, between the clergy and the laity.

So, any move in that direction even if it's part of kind of a larger strategy to get out the church's message that we are not just here for the plucking, that's good news.

LIN: Right. Right and parishioners are demanding it as well now. Thank you very much Professor Scott Appleby from Notre Dame.

APPLEBY: Thank you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com