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CNN Live Sunday
Will Lot Have to Step Down as Senate Majority Leader?
Aired December 15, 2002 - 18:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ...last Friday held his news conference that Friday. He had a quiet day yesterday on Saturday. Today he went to church and it was before he went to church that we asked him about Nickles' comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: It is our responsibility as a group to come together, make a decision, and then go forward, not to let this thing be dangling out there day after day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what you were just listening to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), INCOMING MAJORITY LEADER: It's Sunday morning and we're going to my hometown church, so that's what I'm focused on this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one quick comment about Senator Nickles made a point to also say this on Sunday.
LOTT: Well, you let him explain that. See you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: By the way, what you saw before that comment was Senator John Warner of Virginia. We'll talk about him in a minute but first let's talk about Trent Lott going to church today. He went in like a hero. He was hugged and greeted by more than 450 congregants inside the First Baptist Church of Pascagoula.
The pastor got on the intercom and told everyone inside the church: "Senator Lott, we love you. We accept your apology and you have our prayers and you have our support." And then the congregants clapped for about 45 seconds inside.
Now, there are some here who are accusing Senator Nickles of opportunism because if there is a new Senate Republican leader, Mr. Nickles would be one of the favorites. Now here's what Senator Nickles had to say earlier today, the exact words. We want to read you the quote. It goes like this:
"Senator Lott has apologized profusely and rightly so. His comments did not represent Republican ideals. I accept his apology. However, this is bigger than any single Senator now. I am concerned Senator Lott is weakened to the point that it may jeopardize his ability to enact our agenda and speak to all Americans. There are several outstanding Senators who are more than capable of effective leadership and I hope we have an opportunity to choose."
Now, two other Republican Senators also talked today, not as strong as Senator Nickles. But, Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, and aforementioned Senator John Warner of Virginia also said that the Republicans should all get together and discuss this. Here is what Senator Warner had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARNER: It is our responsibility as a group to come together, make a decision, and then go forward, not to let this thing be dangling out there day after day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: And things are certainly dangling right now but we may find out more tomorrow from Senator Lott because tomorrow he says he will tape an interview with BET, that's Black Entertainment Television. He'll tape a 30-minute interview that will air sometime tomorrow night.
Senator Lott apparently isn't going to say anything else to us today. We talked to his wife a short time ago, Trisha, outside their home just a short distance behind me down the beach here on the Gulf of Mexico and she told us her husband would not be talking, that "we don't politic on Sunday" -- Carol back to you.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you very much, Gary Tuchman live in Pascagoula, Mississippi. Let's bring back our Bill Schneider to talk a little bit more about Trent Lott's future. Bill, how significant is it that Senators Warner and Nickles are asking for this party conference, the chance to vote as to whether Trent Lott should be their Senator leader?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: It's very significant because it means that his leadership is not going to go unchallenged. They want Republicans, his constituents, not in Mississippi but in the Senate who have chosen him as their leader to have a chance to vote in the new Congress. Do they want him to continue to be the face of the Republican majority, the incoming Republican majority in the United States Senate?
There should be an open contest where they make that decision and choose between Senator Lott and others, not just Senator Nickles, but several other names have been mentioned. They haven't announced their intention to run but it should be an open vote, a decision made by the Republicans themselves.
LIN: All right, I'm going to bring in CNN's Bob Novak from "CROSSFIRE" and "CAP GANG." Bob, I'm just wondering do you think Trent Lott would survive a party conference vote? BOB NOVAK, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think there's a majority of Senators who even want to have that vote right now. That might be at the end of the week. This is a moving thing but they talk about five (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Senators needed. All (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Senators are needed for us to have a conference.
That doesn't mean they'll have a vote, and I believe that there are some Senators that would like Trent Lott to quit but I don't believe that he is going to quit. I would say right now I am not even sure there will be a challenge to him, which would require I think a majority of the conference.
LIN: And why don't you think there would be a challenge to him?
NOVAK: Because a lot of people think that this is a silly thing that has been revved up by the Congressional Black Caucus and by the news media and that he is more of a victim. He has apologized profusely. There are a lot of people who don't think he should have been leader in the first place but they had their chance after the election when he was reelected leader by a voice vote. Senator Nickles has never liked Senator Lott very much. He thought about challenging him and found he didn't have the vote.
There's a lot of other people who don't like Senator Lott very much but didn't have the strength, people outside the caucus didn't have the strength to defeat him and so they are, I think they're using this as an attempt to get rid of him.
LIN: But how potentially damaging, Bob, is it if there is a party conference and this dialogue continues and the drumbeat is out for Trent Lott and the story simply does not die?
NOVAK: Well, I think this is going to be satisfied one way or another whether he stays or not certainly by the end of the week. I don't think it's going to last forever. Will Democrats keep pounding on him? Yes, I believe so. Will the Congressional Black Caucus keep pounding on him? Yes. Will the news media keep pounding on him? Yes. Indeed will some Republicans do it?
But that's what politics is about and so that's a judgment that has to be made. Whether he can stand that pounding but the immediate decision whether he's going to stay as leader or not is going to be determined I would say within a week.
LIN: Bill Schneider, do you agree?
SCHNEIDER: I agree except for one thing. The controversy might have been described as overblown, even silly as Bob Novak said, until the president got involved in his remarks in Philadelphia last week.
He ratcheted up the seriousness of this among Republicans who are the relevant constituency considerably when he said that he thought that Senator Lott was not in tune with the values of our country, not the face of the Republican Party that he, President Bush, wanted to present, and I think that instantly raised the question whether he is prepared to work in harmony with Senator Lott. He hasn't called for Lott to step aside but he clearly indicated a harsh rebuke of Senator Lott's views. That made this a much more serious matter.
LIN: What are you looking for in his appearance on Black Entertainment Television Bill?
SCHNEIDER: An open free-wielding discussion and I should mention that earlier today, you know, Senator Lott said that he was consulting with, among others, Robert Johnson about his appearance on Black Entertainment Television tomorrow. In my remarks I said I thought Mr. Johnson was a Republican.
It turns out BET, Black Entertainment Television, has informed me that Robert Johnson is indeed a Democrat. I had him confused with another African-American leader with a similar name. BET assures us that the interview with Mr. Lott tomorrow is going to be open and free-wielding with tough questions and an opportunity for Senator Lott to explain his views and his record on racial issues. It's going to be an important interview and we'll all be watching.
LIN: All right, Bob Novak what do you think Trent Lott needs to say on Black Entertainment Television tomorrow? Is it his opportunity to clear the air?
NOVAK: I think what he has to say is that he is not a segregationist. He is not a racist. Eleanor Holmes-Norton the African-American woman who is the congressional delegate from the District of Columbia said last week there's not a scintilla of racism in Trent Lott.
He has to make that very clear. I think he has to talk about the fact that there's been a transformation in Mississippi. Mississippi, which was a vile, racist place when I was covering the civil rights fights in the 1960s has been transformed. It has more Black office holders than any other state in the union, any state of the union.
So, I think those are the things he should say. As far as explaining himself, I think any fair minded person would say that he was jawing a 100-year-old man at this party. I am told he has done it countless times kidding around with him. It was a bad idea. It was a bad idea then.
He has apologized for it but the idea that he was making some kind of a statement that boy we want to go back to segregation I don't think any fair minded person can think that. This is a political story. Trent Lott has got a lot of enemies, Carol, and they are coming out of the woodwork.
LIN: They sure are. All right, Bob Novak before I let you go, I've got to get your thoughts on Al Gore not running in 2004. Were you surprised?
NOVAK: I was surprised because everything he had said, I think perhaps purposely misleading people indicated he was running. A lot of -- I found very little enthusiasm for him among Democrats I talked to. They were -- in fact a lot of people were worried he would get nominated and be a loser. They need a stronger candidate against President Bush but there are some sophisticated Democrats who felt that they wanted Al Gore to run because they felt sure he would lose in the primaries and whoever defeated him, say it was John Kerry or Dick Gephardt or John Edwards, would be a giant killer. Now, the won't have the advantage of having knocked off still the most familiar name in the Democratic Party today.
LIN: It's everyone for themselves; a lot of fodder for you on "CROSSFIRE." Thanks so much, Bob Novak. Good to have you on. Bill Schneider, always a pleasure. Well, Trent Lott will speak out again tomorrow on Black Entertainment Television as we've been saying.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 15, 2002 - 18:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ...last Friday held his news conference that Friday. He had a quiet day yesterday on Saturday. Today he went to church and it was before he went to church that we asked him about Nickles' comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: It is our responsibility as a group to come together, make a decision, and then go forward, not to let this thing be dangling out there day after day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what you were just listening to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), INCOMING MAJORITY LEADER: It's Sunday morning and we're going to my hometown church, so that's what I'm focused on this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one quick comment about Senator Nickles made a point to also say this on Sunday.
LOTT: Well, you let him explain that. See you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: By the way, what you saw before that comment was Senator John Warner of Virginia. We'll talk about him in a minute but first let's talk about Trent Lott going to church today. He went in like a hero. He was hugged and greeted by more than 450 congregants inside the First Baptist Church of Pascagoula.
The pastor got on the intercom and told everyone inside the church: "Senator Lott, we love you. We accept your apology and you have our prayers and you have our support." And then the congregants clapped for about 45 seconds inside.
Now, there are some here who are accusing Senator Nickles of opportunism because if there is a new Senate Republican leader, Mr. Nickles would be one of the favorites. Now here's what Senator Nickles had to say earlier today, the exact words. We want to read you the quote. It goes like this:
"Senator Lott has apologized profusely and rightly so. His comments did not represent Republican ideals. I accept his apology. However, this is bigger than any single Senator now. I am concerned Senator Lott is weakened to the point that it may jeopardize his ability to enact our agenda and speak to all Americans. There are several outstanding Senators who are more than capable of effective leadership and I hope we have an opportunity to choose."
Now, two other Republican Senators also talked today, not as strong as Senator Nickles. But, Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, and aforementioned Senator John Warner of Virginia also said that the Republicans should all get together and discuss this. Here is what Senator Warner had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARNER: It is our responsibility as a group to come together, make a decision, and then go forward, not to let this thing be dangling out there day after day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: And things are certainly dangling right now but we may find out more tomorrow from Senator Lott because tomorrow he says he will tape an interview with BET, that's Black Entertainment Television. He'll tape a 30-minute interview that will air sometime tomorrow night.
Senator Lott apparently isn't going to say anything else to us today. We talked to his wife a short time ago, Trisha, outside their home just a short distance behind me down the beach here on the Gulf of Mexico and she told us her husband would not be talking, that "we don't politic on Sunday" -- Carol back to you.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you very much, Gary Tuchman live in Pascagoula, Mississippi. Let's bring back our Bill Schneider to talk a little bit more about Trent Lott's future. Bill, how significant is it that Senators Warner and Nickles are asking for this party conference, the chance to vote as to whether Trent Lott should be their Senator leader?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: It's very significant because it means that his leadership is not going to go unchallenged. They want Republicans, his constituents, not in Mississippi but in the Senate who have chosen him as their leader to have a chance to vote in the new Congress. Do they want him to continue to be the face of the Republican majority, the incoming Republican majority in the United States Senate?
There should be an open contest where they make that decision and choose between Senator Lott and others, not just Senator Nickles, but several other names have been mentioned. They haven't announced their intention to run but it should be an open vote, a decision made by the Republicans themselves.
LIN: All right, I'm going to bring in CNN's Bob Novak from "CROSSFIRE" and "CAP GANG." Bob, I'm just wondering do you think Trent Lott would survive a party conference vote? BOB NOVAK, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think there's a majority of Senators who even want to have that vote right now. That might be at the end of the week. This is a moving thing but they talk about five (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Senators needed. All (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Senators are needed for us to have a conference.
That doesn't mean they'll have a vote, and I believe that there are some Senators that would like Trent Lott to quit but I don't believe that he is going to quit. I would say right now I am not even sure there will be a challenge to him, which would require I think a majority of the conference.
LIN: And why don't you think there would be a challenge to him?
NOVAK: Because a lot of people think that this is a silly thing that has been revved up by the Congressional Black Caucus and by the news media and that he is more of a victim. He has apologized profusely. There are a lot of people who don't think he should have been leader in the first place but they had their chance after the election when he was reelected leader by a voice vote. Senator Nickles has never liked Senator Lott very much. He thought about challenging him and found he didn't have the vote.
There's a lot of other people who don't like Senator Lott very much but didn't have the strength, people outside the caucus didn't have the strength to defeat him and so they are, I think they're using this as an attempt to get rid of him.
LIN: But how potentially damaging, Bob, is it if there is a party conference and this dialogue continues and the drumbeat is out for Trent Lott and the story simply does not die?
NOVAK: Well, I think this is going to be satisfied one way or another whether he stays or not certainly by the end of the week. I don't think it's going to last forever. Will Democrats keep pounding on him? Yes, I believe so. Will the Congressional Black Caucus keep pounding on him? Yes. Will the news media keep pounding on him? Yes. Indeed will some Republicans do it?
But that's what politics is about and so that's a judgment that has to be made. Whether he can stand that pounding but the immediate decision whether he's going to stay as leader or not is going to be determined I would say within a week.
LIN: Bill Schneider, do you agree?
SCHNEIDER: I agree except for one thing. The controversy might have been described as overblown, even silly as Bob Novak said, until the president got involved in his remarks in Philadelphia last week.
He ratcheted up the seriousness of this among Republicans who are the relevant constituency considerably when he said that he thought that Senator Lott was not in tune with the values of our country, not the face of the Republican Party that he, President Bush, wanted to present, and I think that instantly raised the question whether he is prepared to work in harmony with Senator Lott. He hasn't called for Lott to step aside but he clearly indicated a harsh rebuke of Senator Lott's views. That made this a much more serious matter.
LIN: What are you looking for in his appearance on Black Entertainment Television Bill?
SCHNEIDER: An open free-wielding discussion and I should mention that earlier today, you know, Senator Lott said that he was consulting with, among others, Robert Johnson about his appearance on Black Entertainment Television tomorrow. In my remarks I said I thought Mr. Johnson was a Republican.
It turns out BET, Black Entertainment Television, has informed me that Robert Johnson is indeed a Democrat. I had him confused with another African-American leader with a similar name. BET assures us that the interview with Mr. Lott tomorrow is going to be open and free-wielding with tough questions and an opportunity for Senator Lott to explain his views and his record on racial issues. It's going to be an important interview and we'll all be watching.
LIN: All right, Bob Novak what do you think Trent Lott needs to say on Black Entertainment Television tomorrow? Is it his opportunity to clear the air?
NOVAK: I think what he has to say is that he is not a segregationist. He is not a racist. Eleanor Holmes-Norton the African-American woman who is the congressional delegate from the District of Columbia said last week there's not a scintilla of racism in Trent Lott.
He has to make that very clear. I think he has to talk about the fact that there's been a transformation in Mississippi. Mississippi, which was a vile, racist place when I was covering the civil rights fights in the 1960s has been transformed. It has more Black office holders than any other state in the union, any state of the union.
So, I think those are the things he should say. As far as explaining himself, I think any fair minded person would say that he was jawing a 100-year-old man at this party. I am told he has done it countless times kidding around with him. It was a bad idea. It was a bad idea then.
He has apologized for it but the idea that he was making some kind of a statement that boy we want to go back to segregation I don't think any fair minded person can think that. This is a political story. Trent Lott has got a lot of enemies, Carol, and they are coming out of the woodwork.
LIN: They sure are. All right, Bob Novak before I let you go, I've got to get your thoughts on Al Gore not running in 2004. Were you surprised?
NOVAK: I was surprised because everything he had said, I think perhaps purposely misleading people indicated he was running. A lot of -- I found very little enthusiasm for him among Democrats I talked to. They were -- in fact a lot of people were worried he would get nominated and be a loser. They need a stronger candidate against President Bush but there are some sophisticated Democrats who felt that they wanted Al Gore to run because they felt sure he would lose in the primaries and whoever defeated him, say it was John Kerry or Dick Gephardt or John Edwards, would be a giant killer. Now, the won't have the advantage of having knocked off still the most familiar name in the Democratic Party today.
LIN: It's everyone for themselves; a lot of fodder for you on "CROSSFIRE." Thanks so much, Bob Novak. Good to have you on. Bill Schneider, always a pleasure. Well, Trent Lott will speak out again tomorrow on Black Entertainment Television as we've been saying.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
