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CNN Live Sunday

Saddam Hussein Formulates War Strategy

Aired February 16, 2003 - 18:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The "New York Times" carried the most harrowing story of all. We've all heard talk about how Baghdad is preparing in the event of war. Well, make no mistake about it, sources tell us Saddam Hussein isn't going to make the same mistakes he did 12 years ago in the first Gulf War. According to the "New York Times," intelligence sources within the Defense Department say Iraq's strategy is this.
First, blow up dams and destroy bridges. Set the country's oil fields on fire. Have two rings of elite soldiers encircling Baghdad, ready for one on one combat. Deny food to civilians in south Iraq to create a crisis that would cause advancing Allied forces to stay put and care for the starving. But if Allied troops on foot do draw near, Iraqis would immediately go to their fighting positions, already stocked with food and ammunition right now.

Well, granted, if this is Saddam Hussein's plan, the Department of Defense already knows about it. But you read this and you think how in the world can U.S. troops prepare for this?

Well, that is where Retired Air Force General George Harrison comes in, with 35 years of active duty fighting on the ground as well as in the air, you're the ideal person to give us this perspective.

GEN. GEORGE HARRISON (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Oh, thank you.

LIN: General, thanks for coming in tonight.

HARRISON: Glad to be here.

LIN: Is this a worst case scenario, if U.S. troops are lured into Baghdad, drawn into Baghdad, because that is simply where Saddam Hussein's forces are based?

HARRISON: Well, it could be a worst case scenario. But I think that presumes, first of all, it's a very defeatist scenario. Essentially, his strategy is saying if you attack me, I'll make my own people so miserable that you'll be sorry, which is a really quaint approach, to starve his own people and to cause death and destruction, burn his oil fields, destroy his economic wealth, destroy his possibility of becoming a viable nation in the future.

LIN: But what does that do to the fighting plan of the U.S. troops?

HARRISON: Well, I think it leaves the fighting plan relatively intact. Of course, we'll be involved, just as we were in Kuwait, after the, in the aftermath of the Gulf War, in putting out the oil fires, because that's a natural disaster of incredible magnitude, as you recall from the pictures that we saw then. Naturally we'll deal with that, knowing that that's going to be there, I'm confident that we'll have the kinds of equipment and people in place that can deal with it.

As far as feeding the starving people, we're going to have to do that anyway, regardless of any conscious strategy that he might come up with. We know that there's tremendous need in southern Iraq and I'm reasonably...

LIN: And that's not the job of fighting men and women, actually, who are going to the front lines, anyway.

HARRISON: No, it's not. But we will have...

LIN: There are other people who handle that.

HARRISON: But we'll have a tremendous support force following along behind the fighting troops. Now, if he wants to withdraw into fixed, defensive fighting positions, obviously we know where those are or we can know where those are relatively soon.

LIN: Close to the city of Baghdad.

HARRISON: Close to the city of Baghdad.

LIN: Perhaps as little as 70 miles outside the city perimeter.

HARRISON: That's right. And if he wants to withdraw into static, fixed positions, that's, again, a very defeatist strategy. And it's not the kind of strategy that a mobile fighting force like the United States Army, supported by the Air Force and the Navy, is going to be drawn into. We can take out those positions. You remember the one bomb, one hangar situations of all of his aircraft that were supposed to be well protected? His air force didn't operate in the last Gulf War.

And the same kind of thing will happen if we have fixed, defensive fighting positions that we can go against. We can target those. We know where they are. We know that we have the kind of ordinance and equipment and capabilities and accuracy that we can take out fixed positions.

LIN: There will be American troops, though, on the ground.

HARRISON: There will.

LIN: And there are reports that the elite Republican Guard, Saddam Hussein's best of the very best of his fighting force, are donning themselves and preparing to wear chemical suits.

Does this indicate that they're going to be using chemical warfare against U.S. troops and how do we respond to that? HARRISON: Well, I think we're prepared to defend ourselves against chemical and biological warfare regardless of the circumstances. Now, as you know, we've declared many years ago that we will never offensively use chemicals and biologicals. So we'll be in a defensive state with regard to those things. And I think that we're better prepared to defend ourselves against his chemicals and biologicals than he is to operate offensively in that kind of an environment.

So, again, if he wants to take out his own troops with those kinds of attacks, I think that's a very bad decision on his part. He may choose to do that. But it's, again, a strategy of defeat.

LIN: If he uses chemical or biological warfare, should the United States respond with nuclear weapons?

HARRISON: Oh, that's a large, much larger question than we're going to deal with today. But I think we've said that if we're in a state of extreme danger, that nuclear weapons are certainly an option. And, of course, we do have the kind of nuclear weapons that can range all the way from very small to relatively large. But I think you'll see a great reluctance to breach the nuclear threshold.

LIN: General, we only have a few seconds left. But I want to get your reaction to the breaking news out of NATO today to go ahead and support Turkey in the case of a war despite France's objections.

HARRISON: I think that's a very important decision. It means that the alliance is, in fact, a defensive alliance, that they'll take care of Turkey, that they're moving forward with the kind of precursor steps that the alliance needs to take to support this. Of course, all this flows from the fact that France withdrew from the NATO military structure in the '60s. They are now out of the military, of the defense planning committee. Since they have made that choice, this is one of the results for France, but it's a good result for the alliance. It means that the alliance will, in fact, defend each of its members in case of any kind of attack.

LIN: This really makes it sound like, though, we are one step closer to military action in the Middle East.

HARRISON: I think you're right.

LIN: All right, thank you very much, General Harrison.

HARRISON: Thank you.

LIN: You have a good weekend.

HARRISON: You, too.

LIN: Well, the Bush administration is sticking with its tough stance on Iraq, unshaken by a weekend of worldwide anti-war protests and pleas from most members of the U.N. Security Council.

CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash has the latest on that. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president motorcaded back from Camp David early as a winter storm dumped more than a foot of snow on the White House. His national security adviser braved the elements to take to the air waves, issuing a warning to France and other members of the U.N. Security Council, giving inspectors more time will undermine pressure on Iraq.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Any time you have a situation in which you are calling for more time rather than calling for Iraq to immediately comply, it plays into the hands of Saddam Hussein.

BASH: Sticking to the administration's hard-line stance, Dr. Rice pointedly accused the U.N. of building a history of being "unable to react" when defied by leaders like Saddam Hussein. The public rift at the U.N. appeared to deepen as key European allies showed no signs of backing off their positions, seizing on the latest report from chief weapons inspector.

JEAN-DAVID LEVITTE, FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Let's move on with inspections as long as they produce results. And that is for the inspectors to tell us where they are. And so far they have said, and Hans Blix in the latest report, that there is progress.

WOLFGANG ISCHINGER, GERMAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: My government continues to believe that it is not wrong to explore every possible method to resolve this question through a, let me put it simply, through containment, through inspections, inspections, inspections, inspections.

BASH: Despite such opposition to immediate military action, U.S. and British officials continued to work on another U.N. resolution, likely to be offered this coming week. Sources close to the discussions on the content of that resolution say they are still searching for the right language that could stand up to a Security Council vote but does not limit the U.S. and Great Britain's military options.

RICE: It cannot be a delaying tactic. But if the world wants to come together around a resolution that does affirm 1441, then we would find that welcome and we're prepared to work toward that end.

CHRISTOPHER MEYER, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: What we are confident of getting in the end is a second Security Council resolution which will authorize the use of force in the event that Saddam Hussein doesn't do what he is supposed to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And as they hammer out that next U.N. resolution, the U.S. and British officials hope that they will get the votes to get a new resolution, that it would pass the Security Council. And they are also anticipating in the next couple of weeks to try to, as they say, put the screws on the Security Council so that they can hope that the next report from Hans Blix and the other chief weapons inspector will be more, will condemn Iraq even more than the first one -- Carol.

LIN: Dana Bash, thank you very much.

Dana Bash live at the White House.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired February 16, 2003 - 18:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The "New York Times" carried the most harrowing story of all. We've all heard talk about how Baghdad is preparing in the event of war. Well, make no mistake about it, sources tell us Saddam Hussein isn't going to make the same mistakes he did 12 years ago in the first Gulf War. According to the "New York Times," intelligence sources within the Defense Department say Iraq's strategy is this.
First, blow up dams and destroy bridges. Set the country's oil fields on fire. Have two rings of elite soldiers encircling Baghdad, ready for one on one combat. Deny food to civilians in south Iraq to create a crisis that would cause advancing Allied forces to stay put and care for the starving. But if Allied troops on foot do draw near, Iraqis would immediately go to their fighting positions, already stocked with food and ammunition right now.

Well, granted, if this is Saddam Hussein's plan, the Department of Defense already knows about it. But you read this and you think how in the world can U.S. troops prepare for this?

Well, that is where Retired Air Force General George Harrison comes in, with 35 years of active duty fighting on the ground as well as in the air, you're the ideal person to give us this perspective.

GEN. GEORGE HARRISON (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Oh, thank you.

LIN: General, thanks for coming in tonight.

HARRISON: Glad to be here.

LIN: Is this a worst case scenario, if U.S. troops are lured into Baghdad, drawn into Baghdad, because that is simply where Saddam Hussein's forces are based?

HARRISON: Well, it could be a worst case scenario. But I think that presumes, first of all, it's a very defeatist scenario. Essentially, his strategy is saying if you attack me, I'll make my own people so miserable that you'll be sorry, which is a really quaint approach, to starve his own people and to cause death and destruction, burn his oil fields, destroy his economic wealth, destroy his possibility of becoming a viable nation in the future.

LIN: But what does that do to the fighting plan of the U.S. troops?

HARRISON: Well, I think it leaves the fighting plan relatively intact. Of course, we'll be involved, just as we were in Kuwait, after the, in the aftermath of the Gulf War, in putting out the oil fires, because that's a natural disaster of incredible magnitude, as you recall from the pictures that we saw then. Naturally we'll deal with that, knowing that that's going to be there, I'm confident that we'll have the kinds of equipment and people in place that can deal with it.

As far as feeding the starving people, we're going to have to do that anyway, regardless of any conscious strategy that he might come up with. We know that there's tremendous need in southern Iraq and I'm reasonably...

LIN: And that's not the job of fighting men and women, actually, who are going to the front lines, anyway.

HARRISON: No, it's not. But we will have...

LIN: There are other people who handle that.

HARRISON: But we'll have a tremendous support force following along behind the fighting troops. Now, if he wants to withdraw into fixed, defensive fighting positions, obviously we know where those are or we can know where those are relatively soon.

LIN: Close to the city of Baghdad.

HARRISON: Close to the city of Baghdad.

LIN: Perhaps as little as 70 miles outside the city perimeter.

HARRISON: That's right. And if he wants to withdraw into static, fixed positions, that's, again, a very defeatist strategy. And it's not the kind of strategy that a mobile fighting force like the United States Army, supported by the Air Force and the Navy, is going to be drawn into. We can take out those positions. You remember the one bomb, one hangar situations of all of his aircraft that were supposed to be well protected? His air force didn't operate in the last Gulf War.

And the same kind of thing will happen if we have fixed, defensive fighting positions that we can go against. We can target those. We know where they are. We know that we have the kind of ordinance and equipment and capabilities and accuracy that we can take out fixed positions.

LIN: There will be American troops, though, on the ground.

HARRISON: There will.

LIN: And there are reports that the elite Republican Guard, Saddam Hussein's best of the very best of his fighting force, are donning themselves and preparing to wear chemical suits.

Does this indicate that they're going to be using chemical warfare against U.S. troops and how do we respond to that? HARRISON: Well, I think we're prepared to defend ourselves against chemical and biological warfare regardless of the circumstances. Now, as you know, we've declared many years ago that we will never offensively use chemicals and biologicals. So we'll be in a defensive state with regard to those things. And I think that we're better prepared to defend ourselves against his chemicals and biologicals than he is to operate offensively in that kind of an environment.

So, again, if he wants to take out his own troops with those kinds of attacks, I think that's a very bad decision on his part. He may choose to do that. But it's, again, a strategy of defeat.

LIN: If he uses chemical or biological warfare, should the United States respond with nuclear weapons?

HARRISON: Oh, that's a large, much larger question than we're going to deal with today. But I think we've said that if we're in a state of extreme danger, that nuclear weapons are certainly an option. And, of course, we do have the kind of nuclear weapons that can range all the way from very small to relatively large. But I think you'll see a great reluctance to breach the nuclear threshold.

LIN: General, we only have a few seconds left. But I want to get your reaction to the breaking news out of NATO today to go ahead and support Turkey in the case of a war despite France's objections.

HARRISON: I think that's a very important decision. It means that the alliance is, in fact, a defensive alliance, that they'll take care of Turkey, that they're moving forward with the kind of precursor steps that the alliance needs to take to support this. Of course, all this flows from the fact that France withdrew from the NATO military structure in the '60s. They are now out of the military, of the defense planning committee. Since they have made that choice, this is one of the results for France, but it's a good result for the alliance. It means that the alliance will, in fact, defend each of its members in case of any kind of attack.

LIN: This really makes it sound like, though, we are one step closer to military action in the Middle East.

HARRISON: I think you're right.

LIN: All right, thank you very much, General Harrison.

HARRISON: Thank you.

LIN: You have a good weekend.

HARRISON: You, too.

LIN: Well, the Bush administration is sticking with its tough stance on Iraq, unshaken by a weekend of worldwide anti-war protests and pleas from most members of the U.N. Security Council.

CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash has the latest on that. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president motorcaded back from Camp David early as a winter storm dumped more than a foot of snow on the White House. His national security adviser braved the elements to take to the air waves, issuing a warning to France and other members of the U.N. Security Council, giving inspectors more time will undermine pressure on Iraq.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Any time you have a situation in which you are calling for more time rather than calling for Iraq to immediately comply, it plays into the hands of Saddam Hussein.

BASH: Sticking to the administration's hard-line stance, Dr. Rice pointedly accused the U.N. of building a history of being "unable to react" when defied by leaders like Saddam Hussein. The public rift at the U.N. appeared to deepen as key European allies showed no signs of backing off their positions, seizing on the latest report from chief weapons inspector.

JEAN-DAVID LEVITTE, FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Let's move on with inspections as long as they produce results. And that is for the inspectors to tell us where they are. And so far they have said, and Hans Blix in the latest report, that there is progress.

WOLFGANG ISCHINGER, GERMAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: My government continues to believe that it is not wrong to explore every possible method to resolve this question through a, let me put it simply, through containment, through inspections, inspections, inspections, inspections.

BASH: Despite such opposition to immediate military action, U.S. and British officials continued to work on another U.N. resolution, likely to be offered this coming week. Sources close to the discussions on the content of that resolution say they are still searching for the right language that could stand up to a Security Council vote but does not limit the U.S. and Great Britain's military options.

RICE: It cannot be a delaying tactic. But if the world wants to come together around a resolution that does affirm 1441, then we would find that welcome and we're prepared to work toward that end.

CHRISTOPHER MEYER, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: What we are confident of getting in the end is a second Security Council resolution which will authorize the use of force in the event that Saddam Hussein doesn't do what he is supposed to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And as they hammer out that next U.N. resolution, the U.S. and British officials hope that they will get the votes to get a new resolution, that it would pass the Security Council. And they are also anticipating in the next couple of weeks to try to, as they say, put the screws on the Security Council so that they can hope that the next report from Hans Blix and the other chief weapons inspector will be more, will condemn Iraq even more than the first one -- Carol.

LIN: Dana Bash, thank you very much.

Dana Bash live at the White House.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com