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CNN Live Sunday

Will U.S. Have Element of Surprise on Their Side?

Aired March 09, 2003 - 15:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: With the impending war with Iraq, a very public U.S. posturing and U.N. delays might have you thinking if war there will be no element of surprise. But that isn't the case, say some. Retired General Wesley Clark, a CNN military analyst, is here to explain why. General, good to see you.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Nice to see you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, it would seem that there really is no element of surprise. But you say there really still is?

CLARK: Well, I think there is. You can divide surprise into different categories. There's strategic surprise, OK, Iraq knows we're going to attack. They may even know within a couple of days and they might assume the attack's going to be at night. But that still doesn't tell them what targets, in what sequence, with what weapons, where we're going to put our troops in on the ground, and so forth. So there's lots of tactical elements of this that will be still surprising.

WHITFIELD: OK, and you say that really surprise, the element of surprise ranks pretty low on the whole list of principals of war. There are nine principles of war. What are some of those other principles?

CLARK: Well, these are the principles that people have collected from studying successful campaigns in history. And surprise is just one of the elements that tends to makes a campaign successful. So you might start with the objective, what are we going after in the war? And you've got to make sure you've got a clear, complete objective.

You need unity of command. Normally you have to go to offensive maneuver. And then you have the issue of surprise or security. And surprise means being able to do what you want without the enemy reacting to it. It's not that the enemy is going to be so astonished and caught off-guard that he doesn't know it, but he may not be able to react. So you have strategic surprise. OK, we're going to give up on strategic surprise. But he can't do anything, he can't bring in any reinforcements to bear. We've got tactical surprise, we might have some technical surprise as well.

WHITFIELD: All right, those are the principles of war. Let's talk about some of the tactical weapons of war, maybe not surprises but at least pretty elusive. CLARK: Indeed they are. So I mean, if you look at the stealth bomber, for example, he may know stealth bombers are coming after him, but he doesn't know exactly where they're going to strike, he doesn't know how they're going to approach and he's not going to have the means to defeat those aircraft.

He's being looked at by reconnaissance aircraft, by the Predator drone. The Predator drone is flying high. This is what you're seeing here the GBU 28 earth penetrator (ph). There's the Predator. It is there. He knows it's there. But he doesn't know what we're seeing and what we can do with it and how we target and use it. So this technology gives us big advantages. And of course, this bunker buster goes right in underneath.

WHITFIELD: And this kind of technology also really essentially protects the troops as well, doesn't it?

CLARK: That's exactly right. When you have the initiative, and you're setting the tone of battle, of course, then he's reacting to you. We've shown aircraft but we can also do it with ground forces. The U.S. Army M-1 A-1 tank, that's very heavy piece of equipment. When he fires at it, most of his rounds are going to bounce off that tank. It's a very hard vehicle to kill. It goes fast, it's very agile, it does well in going over obstacles. So in a one-on-one tank or many on many tank battle within a mile or two, people are going to be surprised when they look at what the M-1 A-1 tank can do against them.

WHITFIELD: Kosovo war comes to mind when you talk about this, no element of surprise was apparent there, but instead it was considered military successful. Why?

CLARK: Because we were able to, despite the fact that Milosevic knew we were coming, and in some cases apparently he even knew the targets, when they distributed the target list. Somehow they got it to the Serb gunners, they still couldn't deal with the equipment we had. We were just too powerful, too sophisticated and too capable. We took out his radars, we took out his airfields, we took out his missile systems, despite the fact they knew we were coming.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about what the American men and women are up against in the Persian Gulf region right now. We talked yesterday with Ryan Chilcote who said that the 101st was getting its first rude awakening with the kinds of sandstorms that take place there, piercing sandstorms, and they are knocking over tents, et cetera. This is a very real reality they've got to deal with on a regular basis now, isn't it?

CLARK: Absolutely. It's one of the things about being a soldier on the ground, is you have to deal with that terrain. In this terrain, OK, you can probably drive pretty fast in it, but look at the dust and the smoke and the obscuration that comes up. And it gets there. There's an M1 tank just churning up the dust behind it. And that's getting into the weapons. Notice this 50 caliber machine gun on top of the tank there is covered up. He's got a dust cover on those guns up there so that they don't get clogged up with the grit and the grime that comes in off the desert.

And when they have maintenance problem, they've got to cover the equipment and take care of it. The same thing for helicopters, makes it difficult.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Can't the enemy use this to their advantage, then?

CLARK: It's pretty hard for the enemy to use it to their advantage...

WHITFIELD: Because they're used to it.

CLARK: They're facing the same problem. In reality, you can be used to it, but you still have to deal with it. And you know, our soldiers are very well trained. We have got superior equipment. I think if there's anybody who is going to take an advantage from this, we'll take it.

WHITFIELD: All right, General Clark, good to see you. Thanks very much.

CLARK: Nice to see you, Fredricka.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 9, 2003 - 15:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: With the impending war with Iraq, a very public U.S. posturing and U.N. delays might have you thinking if war there will be no element of surprise. But that isn't the case, say some. Retired General Wesley Clark, a CNN military analyst, is here to explain why. General, good to see you.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Nice to see you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, it would seem that there really is no element of surprise. But you say there really still is?

CLARK: Well, I think there is. You can divide surprise into different categories. There's strategic surprise, OK, Iraq knows we're going to attack. They may even know within a couple of days and they might assume the attack's going to be at night. But that still doesn't tell them what targets, in what sequence, with what weapons, where we're going to put our troops in on the ground, and so forth. So there's lots of tactical elements of this that will be still surprising.

WHITFIELD: OK, and you say that really surprise, the element of surprise ranks pretty low on the whole list of principals of war. There are nine principles of war. What are some of those other principles?

CLARK: Well, these are the principles that people have collected from studying successful campaigns in history. And surprise is just one of the elements that tends to makes a campaign successful. So you might start with the objective, what are we going after in the war? And you've got to make sure you've got a clear, complete objective.

You need unity of command. Normally you have to go to offensive maneuver. And then you have the issue of surprise or security. And surprise means being able to do what you want without the enemy reacting to it. It's not that the enemy is going to be so astonished and caught off-guard that he doesn't know it, but he may not be able to react. So you have strategic surprise. OK, we're going to give up on strategic surprise. But he can't do anything, he can't bring in any reinforcements to bear. We've got tactical surprise, we might have some technical surprise as well.

WHITFIELD: All right, those are the principles of war. Let's talk about some of the tactical weapons of war, maybe not surprises but at least pretty elusive. CLARK: Indeed they are. So I mean, if you look at the stealth bomber, for example, he may know stealth bombers are coming after him, but he doesn't know exactly where they're going to strike, he doesn't know how they're going to approach and he's not going to have the means to defeat those aircraft.

He's being looked at by reconnaissance aircraft, by the Predator drone. The Predator drone is flying high. This is what you're seeing here the GBU 28 earth penetrator (ph). There's the Predator. It is there. He knows it's there. But he doesn't know what we're seeing and what we can do with it and how we target and use it. So this technology gives us big advantages. And of course, this bunker buster goes right in underneath.

WHITFIELD: And this kind of technology also really essentially protects the troops as well, doesn't it?

CLARK: That's exactly right. When you have the initiative, and you're setting the tone of battle, of course, then he's reacting to you. We've shown aircraft but we can also do it with ground forces. The U.S. Army M-1 A-1 tank, that's very heavy piece of equipment. When he fires at it, most of his rounds are going to bounce off that tank. It's a very hard vehicle to kill. It goes fast, it's very agile, it does well in going over obstacles. So in a one-on-one tank or many on many tank battle within a mile or two, people are going to be surprised when they look at what the M-1 A-1 tank can do against them.

WHITFIELD: Kosovo war comes to mind when you talk about this, no element of surprise was apparent there, but instead it was considered military successful. Why?

CLARK: Because we were able to, despite the fact that Milosevic knew we were coming, and in some cases apparently he even knew the targets, when they distributed the target list. Somehow they got it to the Serb gunners, they still couldn't deal with the equipment we had. We were just too powerful, too sophisticated and too capable. We took out his radars, we took out his airfields, we took out his missile systems, despite the fact they knew we were coming.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about what the American men and women are up against in the Persian Gulf region right now. We talked yesterday with Ryan Chilcote who said that the 101st was getting its first rude awakening with the kinds of sandstorms that take place there, piercing sandstorms, and they are knocking over tents, et cetera. This is a very real reality they've got to deal with on a regular basis now, isn't it?

CLARK: Absolutely. It's one of the things about being a soldier on the ground, is you have to deal with that terrain. In this terrain, OK, you can probably drive pretty fast in it, but look at the dust and the smoke and the obscuration that comes up. And it gets there. There's an M1 tank just churning up the dust behind it. And that's getting into the weapons. Notice this 50 caliber machine gun on top of the tank there is covered up. He's got a dust cover on those guns up there so that they don't get clogged up with the grit and the grime that comes in off the desert.

And when they have maintenance problem, they've got to cover the equipment and take care of it. The same thing for helicopters, makes it difficult.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Can't the enemy use this to their advantage, then?

CLARK: It's pretty hard for the enemy to use it to their advantage...

WHITFIELD: Because they're used to it.

CLARK: They're facing the same problem. In reality, you can be used to it, but you still have to deal with it. And you know, our soldiers are very well trained. We have got superior equipment. I think if there's anybody who is going to take an advantage from this, we'll take it.

WHITFIELD: All right, General Clark, good to see you. Thanks very much.

CLARK: Nice to see you, Fredricka.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com