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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With William Uri

Aired March 16, 2003 - 17:52   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Is there a strategy for ending the standoff in Iraq where everybody wins? William Uri knows a lot about negotiating with people. He is co-founder of the negotiation program at Harvard University, co-author of the books "Getting to Yes," and "Getting Past No." Mr. Uri, thanks very much for joining us. We only have about three minutes, and there's so much we could talk to. I want to really talk about two different things. One, possibly some sort of negotiated deal with Iraq, on the other hand, some sort of negotiation between the U.S. and France, Germany and others to form some sort of coalition, a more unified coalition. Let's talk vis-a- vis Iraq. At this point, is there any kind of settlement that could take place that would satisfy the U.S. and Great Britain?
WILLIAM URI, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: From a negotiation point of view, Anderson, I do think there is. I think there's one last best chance, and that's a negotiated exit for Saddam Hussein. In which he and his government and his friends and family would leave peacefully. The Russians have two planes prepared just for such an eventuality. And from a negotiation point of view, I think there is a possibility. It would be an extraordinary victory for the world, a real win-win, Saddam out and no war. The question is how to make it work.

COOPER: Right. Saddam Hussein has shown no indication, many people would say, that he is willing to leave the country.

URI: That's right, and, of course, he would have to say that. But if you put yourself in his shoes for a moment, you have to think how could it be attractive to him? Right now, we've got a policy which is all stick and no carrot. We've spent billions of dollars persuading him it's unattractive to stay. Now we have to make it attractive for him to leave. It has to be a victory for George Bush, in which George Bush can say, look, we got what we needed. We got safety. We got disarmament, and so on. Saddam is out.

And Saddam has to say something like, look, I've made a supreme sacrifice as a protector of the Arab people. I am stepping down. I'm retiring. I am going to Mecca on an extended pilgrimage. I am going to protect and spare the people of Iraq from infidels controlling and occupying the country and seizing our oil.

COOPER: Right. I get it. I get it.

URI: That's what needs to happen.

COOPER: But doesn't that notion sort of -- isn't that based on the idea that he is a rationale actor, that he is sort of making decisions in a rationale manner? Some might say he's not Raul Cedras in Haiti who could be bought off with a condo in Panama.

URI: He's not that type. But what he is, he is the type of man who could feel - he's got a supreme destiny. He's got an enormous ego. And if he feels that this can be a tactical retreat but a strategic advance, here's a man, after all, who has persuaded himself that he won the first Gulf War. So you might be able to persuade himself. And what we need to do in this last few days is to get in his hands a very concrete offer. And here's a man prone to miscalculation. But he might make this decision just as the bombs are starting to fall. So there's a concrete offer. All he has to do is say, yes, and this goes into effect.

And the U.N. could help by saying, look, we will go in there and we will provide a temporary administration in which Iraq can be disarmed. Arab countries and the Russians can help, even maybe someone watching this TV program might have the connections to make this work. I think this is the last best chance for peace.

COOPER: All right, we literally only have 30 seconds left, and I want to get to this other thing. Is this any way in the next 24 hours, 48 hours, that there might be some sort of negotiated settlement between the United States and France and Germany, some of the other NATO allies who are not really being very allied with us at this time?

URI: There's always a chance, but I would say they chances are very small. And I would focus really on this extraordinary opportunity really when Saddam Hussein's mind is finally concentrated to really persuade him to build him a golden bridge to retreat across. That's the real opportunity for the world at this point.

COOPER: All right. William Uri. I appreciate you joining us. Sorry the time was so short. It's an interesting topic. Thanks very much.

URI: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 16, 2003 - 17:52   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Is there a strategy for ending the standoff in Iraq where everybody wins? William Uri knows a lot about negotiating with people. He is co-founder of the negotiation program at Harvard University, co-author of the books "Getting to Yes," and "Getting Past No." Mr. Uri, thanks very much for joining us. We only have about three minutes, and there's so much we could talk to. I want to really talk about two different things. One, possibly some sort of negotiated deal with Iraq, on the other hand, some sort of negotiation between the U.S. and France, Germany and others to form some sort of coalition, a more unified coalition. Let's talk vis-a- vis Iraq. At this point, is there any kind of settlement that could take place that would satisfy the U.S. and Great Britain?
WILLIAM URI, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: From a negotiation point of view, Anderson, I do think there is. I think there's one last best chance, and that's a negotiated exit for Saddam Hussein. In which he and his government and his friends and family would leave peacefully. The Russians have two planes prepared just for such an eventuality. And from a negotiation point of view, I think there is a possibility. It would be an extraordinary victory for the world, a real win-win, Saddam out and no war. The question is how to make it work.

COOPER: Right. Saddam Hussein has shown no indication, many people would say, that he is willing to leave the country.

URI: That's right, and, of course, he would have to say that. But if you put yourself in his shoes for a moment, you have to think how could it be attractive to him? Right now, we've got a policy which is all stick and no carrot. We've spent billions of dollars persuading him it's unattractive to stay. Now we have to make it attractive for him to leave. It has to be a victory for George Bush, in which George Bush can say, look, we got what we needed. We got safety. We got disarmament, and so on. Saddam is out.

And Saddam has to say something like, look, I've made a supreme sacrifice as a protector of the Arab people. I am stepping down. I'm retiring. I am going to Mecca on an extended pilgrimage. I am going to protect and spare the people of Iraq from infidels controlling and occupying the country and seizing our oil.

COOPER: Right. I get it. I get it.

URI: That's what needs to happen.

COOPER: But doesn't that notion sort of -- isn't that based on the idea that he is a rationale actor, that he is sort of making decisions in a rationale manner? Some might say he's not Raul Cedras in Haiti who could be bought off with a condo in Panama.

URI: He's not that type. But what he is, he is the type of man who could feel - he's got a supreme destiny. He's got an enormous ego. And if he feels that this can be a tactical retreat but a strategic advance, here's a man, after all, who has persuaded himself that he won the first Gulf War. So you might be able to persuade himself. And what we need to do in this last few days is to get in his hands a very concrete offer. And here's a man prone to miscalculation. But he might make this decision just as the bombs are starting to fall. So there's a concrete offer. All he has to do is say, yes, and this goes into effect.

And the U.N. could help by saying, look, we will go in there and we will provide a temporary administration in which Iraq can be disarmed. Arab countries and the Russians can help, even maybe someone watching this TV program might have the connections to make this work. I think this is the last best chance for peace.

COOPER: All right, we literally only have 30 seconds left, and I want to get to this other thing. Is this any way in the next 24 hours, 48 hours, that there might be some sort of negotiated settlement between the United States and France and Germany, some of the other NATO allies who are not really being very allied with us at this time?

URI: There's always a chance, but I would say they chances are very small. And I would focus really on this extraordinary opportunity really when Saddam Hussein's mind is finally concentrated to really persuade him to build him a golden bridge to retreat across. That's the real opportunity for the world at this point.

COOPER: All right. William Uri. I appreciate you joining us. Sorry the time was so short. It's an interesting topic. Thanks very much.

URI: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com