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CNN Live Sunday
Has Baath Party Been Dissolved in Iraq?
Aired May 11, 2003 - 16:23 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: General Tommy Franks, leader of the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, said Saddam Hussein's Baath Party is dissolved, but did anybody tell that to the Baath Party? CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us live from Baghdad. Mixed messages there?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Fredricka, the Baath Party, one must remember, was not just a political party as we understand it in Western terms. It was a means of social organization and certainly, social control. Simply because Tommy Franks says, your party is dissolved, please come and hand in the party cards, it doesn't mean that the mentality and the organizational structure of a dictatorship will disappear overnight.
We went down to Baghdad University this week and have been talking to the professors and tried to talk to the students down there about what they think, a lot of the professors there were Baath Party members, and here's what they had to say, Fredricka.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL (voice over): Next week, the campus of Baghdad University will come to life again after the war. When it does, the eyes and ears of Saddam Hussein will be keeping a close watch on lessons. The dictator is gone, but Saddam's all pervasive Baath party still is entrenched at the university. Most of the professors were influential party members.
ANDREW ERDMANN, STATE DEPT. ADVISER: There is an intimidation factor that the Baath party historically has used for social control. That's still a concern. Without a doubt, not -- and again, not just on campuses but throughout society.
PENHAUL: Erdmann has been explaining the need to reshuffle the board of governors at Baghdad University, but there are few independents to choose from. Vice President Mukhlif Al-Oulimi admits he was a mid-ranking party loyalist and says this about his co- workers.
MUKHLIF AL-OULIMI, BAGHDAD UNIVERSITY VP: Yes. Most of them. I said, not all but the majority of them were.
PENHAUL: These engineering students told us privately they thought education run by trusted Baath Party professors was tantamount to thought control. All refused to comment on camera. The reason, they fear their teachers will hamper the studies if they speak out. The timetable may have changed, but their lecturers are the same. (on camera): The return of Baath party members to prominent political posts alongside the occupying coalition forces is raising hackles. Workers at a Baghdad power plant have demonstrated, doctors are in an uproar.
(voice-over): They're protesting the top Baath party official, Ali Shkan, still holds office at the Health Ministry, working hand in hand with the coalition. His U.S. advisers say they have obliged him to sign a document to "disavow and renounce" his membership of the Baath Party. So what does he think after Saddam's Baath Party now?
ALI SHKAN, IRAQ DEP. HEALTH MINISTER: If you read in the teaching, you find a lot of ideology which is very, very good. The question -- teaching.
PENHAUL: Back in the classroom, architecture professor and former department head, Hasim Al-Rawi, disagrees that Saddam mixed politics with education. He says political debate and dissent was not officially banned. And why hasn't he removed the photo of the toppled dictator?
HASIM AL-RAWI, ARCHITECTURE PROFESSOR: I think the administration hasn't gone around to do that, you know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL: So General Franks may have given the order for the Baath party to be dissolved, but many of the officials now in public office are the same faces that held office under Saddam Hussein, and the fear factor for ordinary Iraqis remains -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Sounds like it will take more than an order. Thanks very much, Karl Penhaul.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 11, 2003 - 16:23 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: General Tommy Franks, leader of the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, said Saddam Hussein's Baath Party is dissolved, but did anybody tell that to the Baath Party? CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us live from Baghdad. Mixed messages there?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Fredricka, the Baath Party, one must remember, was not just a political party as we understand it in Western terms. It was a means of social organization and certainly, social control. Simply because Tommy Franks says, your party is dissolved, please come and hand in the party cards, it doesn't mean that the mentality and the organizational structure of a dictatorship will disappear overnight.
We went down to Baghdad University this week and have been talking to the professors and tried to talk to the students down there about what they think, a lot of the professors there were Baath Party members, and here's what they had to say, Fredricka.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL (voice over): Next week, the campus of Baghdad University will come to life again after the war. When it does, the eyes and ears of Saddam Hussein will be keeping a close watch on lessons. The dictator is gone, but Saddam's all pervasive Baath party still is entrenched at the university. Most of the professors were influential party members.
ANDREW ERDMANN, STATE DEPT. ADVISER: There is an intimidation factor that the Baath party historically has used for social control. That's still a concern. Without a doubt, not -- and again, not just on campuses but throughout society.
PENHAUL: Erdmann has been explaining the need to reshuffle the board of governors at Baghdad University, but there are few independents to choose from. Vice President Mukhlif Al-Oulimi admits he was a mid-ranking party loyalist and says this about his co- workers.
MUKHLIF AL-OULIMI, BAGHDAD UNIVERSITY VP: Yes. Most of them. I said, not all but the majority of them were.
PENHAUL: These engineering students told us privately they thought education run by trusted Baath Party professors was tantamount to thought control. All refused to comment on camera. The reason, they fear their teachers will hamper the studies if they speak out. The timetable may have changed, but their lecturers are the same. (on camera): The return of Baath party members to prominent political posts alongside the occupying coalition forces is raising hackles. Workers at a Baghdad power plant have demonstrated, doctors are in an uproar.
(voice-over): They're protesting the top Baath party official, Ali Shkan, still holds office at the Health Ministry, working hand in hand with the coalition. His U.S. advisers say they have obliged him to sign a document to "disavow and renounce" his membership of the Baath Party. So what does he think after Saddam's Baath Party now?
ALI SHKAN, IRAQ DEP. HEALTH MINISTER: If you read in the teaching, you find a lot of ideology which is very, very good. The question -- teaching.
PENHAUL: Back in the classroom, architecture professor and former department head, Hasim Al-Rawi, disagrees that Saddam mixed politics with education. He says political debate and dissent was not officially banned. And why hasn't he removed the photo of the toppled dictator?
HASIM AL-RAWI, ARCHITECTURE PROFESSOR: I think the administration hasn't gone around to do that, you know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL: So General Franks may have given the order for the Baath party to be dissolved, but many of the officials now in public office are the same faces that held office under Saddam Hussein, and the fear factor for ordinary Iraqis remains -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Sounds like it will take more than an order. Thanks very much, Karl Penhaul.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
