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CNN Live Sunday

Preview of CNN PRESENTS

Aired May 18, 2003 - 18:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: During the war in Iraq, more than 1,000 naval doctors stuck their necks out working on the front lines to save lives. The Marines call them "Devil Docs". They operated under constant danger, armed with scalpels and side arms, and it didn't matter which side of the combat their patients came from. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta spent six weeks with the Devil Docs and brings us their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): These are the sights and sounds of war, but behind each explosion are stories most people turn away from, stories of the injured, maimed, and killed. These stories are not often told, wounds too terrible to remember and often too vivid to forget.

LIEUTENANT TOMMY OLSON, PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT, U.S. NAVY: Some of the things I see here you don't see anywhere in the states, even working inner city hospitals. Large caliber wounds.

GUPTA: These doctors and nurses staff what's called a Forward Resuscitative Surgical System. That's the equivalent of an operating room and six-bed emergency room. They travel to within 20 miles of the front lines. They not only see the human cost of war but hear the stories that go with it, often for the first time.

This young corporal is anxious to tell his story, an assault on an Iraqi location.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm never been inside the building. I got hit before.

GUPTA: He, like many marines, was brought here by helicopter. The doctors here remember the stories as much as the wounds. Hospital medic, Sonja Hamrick, has been in the military for 13 years, a mother of two young girls, this is Hamrick's first experience on the front lines of combat.

SONJA HAMRICK, HOSPITAL MEDIC: I just love their stories. I love how they tell me about their wives, their families, the fact that they're going to live, where they're from. I mean, last night I held a first sergeant's hand as he passed away, and that to me is a story, I mean, although he couldn't tell me where he was from, what he was doing, I could just feel it. And I stayed with him, and he's a story I'll take with me forever. I will always think about him. He'll become my story in my journal. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: CNN medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joining me now here in the studio to tell us more about his experiences with the Devil Docs. Just incredible stuff that you brought to us from the war. Anything in particular that will really stand out in your mind more than something else?

GUPTA: Well, I think the thing that sort of struck me the most was taking a step back and looking at it more philosophically. I mean, two things, you know, one is that these doctors, Devil Docs, a lot of them reservists, had never seen combat before. So, they were sort of being thrown into this mix like a lot of people were. Often times they were asked to make decisions about operating on Iraqis at the same time that marines or coalition force members were being brought in. How they worked through the decision-making process I thought was fascinating.

And then, finally, I think the thing more than anything else, more than the austere conditions, 120 degrees, more than the sand storms were just the images that they see.

Heidi, I don't know that anyone can really prepare themselves for some of the stuff and some of the things that we show in the documentary tonight. These are the real -- the reality of war for a lot of these doctors. Again, they look at these injuries straight on. They don't have the luxury of looking the other way. They look at it. They have to try and save lives. And those images are going to stick with them for a lifetime.

I have been back for just about a month now, and I know images have stuck with me. I can't imagine for doctors what it is going to be like.

COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. I am also wondering -- we had mentioned earlier that 80 percent of the patients that were seen in these sort of Forward Resuscitation Surgical Systems we have also been talking about -- we'll get into that more later -- were Iraqis, and decisions have to be made so quickly.

GUPTA: Right.

COLLINS: What is that like? You mentioned the process.

GUPTA: You know, the very first patient they operated, the unit I was with, was an Iraqi, and the most interesting and poignant thing about that was that they were listening to the radio. They were in the middle of the desert listening to the radio, and they heard now that 12 U.S. soldiers had been captured, and four had been executed. Almost minutes after, that they were wheeling in an Iraqi patient, and that was a very emotional moment for them.

One guy actually turned to me and said, I can't believe we are operating on their guys at the same time they are killing ours. Obviously, an impassioned moment for this particular doctor, but that sort of summed it up, I think. There is legal reasons that the Iraqis were operated on. There are moral reasons. And then there's just medical common sense. Plus they will tell you it's all based on medical triage, not political triage. If a patient stands to benefit more from an operation, if the patient is more likely to survive an operation, it doesn't matter who the patient is or from where they come.

COLLINS: And this is the traditional oath that a doctor takes about saving a human life.

GUPTA: Right. This is part of it. And then the Geneva Accords actually, in 1954, they talked about that in a little bit more detail. They said, you know, no matter who the patients are, again ,the medical units, the Red Cross, the medical units, everyone on the battlefield takes care of patients as they come.

COLLINS: And we were looking at some video there of you actually performing some operations, and we have talked about that issue many times before. Now that you've had time to look back and think about it, how does it make you feel today?

GUPTA: I think it's sort of the same as I felt at the time. You know, again, I thought about it a lot. More so now. But we certainly didn't go to Iraq to be any kind of story, just to cover the story. But, you know, as it turns out, I was the onto neurosurgeon there, and they asked me to help out, and, you know, putting a press pass on is not a bar to humanity, and I think anybody would do that.

I thought about all my colleagues back here at CNN, and, you know, whatever skills that you might have, if you came upon a burning building or burning car, instead of holding the microphone and doing the story, if you could save somebody, I think just about anybody would, and I would like to believe journalists would do that.

Certainly in this particular situation, I ended up operating on five people total, two marines and three Iraqis, and I still think it was absolutely the right thing to do. There was some, you know, there is always the concern about journalists getting too involved with the story, and I think that that is an example to a certain extent, but I think in that particular situation, not doing it would have been crossing the line, you know, as opposed to crossing the line doing it.

COLLINS: Would you cover war again?

GUPTA: I think I would. I think that, you know, from a medical standpoint, I think a lot of advancements are made at war. Certainly, we talk about FRSS, the Forward Resuscitative Surgical System. I got to see that. A lot of people don't get a chance to see that. I got to report on that.

A lot of these advancements are made at war, and I think that's fascinating. But also, you know, this was a very important story, obviously, and for all journalists. And I certainly would go out there again. I don't know that my mom would think that is such a great idea to go back out there again.

COLLINS: I bet she wouldn't.

GUPTA: But it's an important story, and I think I would.

COLLINS: What about following up with any of these patients or the doctors you that worked with. Have you been able to do that?

GUPTA: Well, you know, that's a really important point. First, the doctors, you know, the doctors for the most part are still out there. You know, we came home, but they're still out there. They sort of shifted focus now.

Cholera and chaos really being sort of the two of things going on out there in Iraq for these doctors, and they have set up these large field hospitals, 500-bed hospitals, taking care of a lot of humanitarian issues, which have become very important now as well.

The patients, you know, we didn't get as much follow-up on Iraqi patients. We are trying to trace some of those patients down. We are going to get some of that information as the doctors come home.

Two marines we have actually been in touch with. And then tried to follow up on some of the patients that either made their way to the USS Comfort or to Kuwait City. That's where a lot of these patients ended up.

So, we are hearing some follow-up, and it does look, at least initially, that this FRSS was a positive thing. It did make a difference.

COLLINS: Yes, $330,000 per tent. I mean, I just can't imagine the type of high-tech equipment that is in there that is actually saving lives and in such a short amount of time that it takes to set one up, right?

GUPTA: Really remarkable. Doctors, nurses, the medics are doing this on their own. A portable operating room and all the things that go with that, general anesthesia, all the surgical equipment, an operating table, the lights, all that sort of stuff. A lot of that cost really is for the equipment, but also the portability of this sort of thing.

Heidi, you are absolutely right. It breaks down in an hour and sets back up in an hour, and the real reason for that is so that it could move with the front line troops. They didn't want to be the limiting step. They wanted to be able to move as troops move. That's where a lot of these costs came in.

But, again, you know, the numbers will show how effective this thing was and whether or not it made sense to put doctors in harm's way in order to save patients' lives. But at least initially, it looked like it was successful.

COLLINS: Last question for you, Sanjay quickly. Anything that you will take with you now as a doctor here in the U.S. from this experience in Iraq? GUPTA: Yes, you know, one thing I learned is that I think we get so used to our bright, shiny hospitals and everything, and obviously that is the best care. I think we see the best care in the world here in the United States.

But I also saw what was possible, doctors taking care of patients in the middle of the desert in tents with wind blowing, 120 degrees. I think I -- on a personal note, I think I saw what was possible. On a more global note, I think that the overall medicine is going to learn a lot from this particular surgical system. They are going to learn about how to take care of patients.

I wouldn't be surprised, Heidi, if we see sorts of tents cropping up in urban centers, you know, that take care of mass casualties for explosions, like Oklahoma City or mass casualties like that. You might start to see this thing if the numbers pan out.

COLLINS: Makes sense. All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. We do appreciate it, and once again, I want to remind everyone that you can see more of the Devil Docs' extraordinary efforts tonight. "CNN Presents" will bring you an in depth look at the conditions they operated in and the life and death decisions they dealt with on a daily basis. That show begins at 8:00 Eastern time tonight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired May 18, 2003 - 18:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: During the war in Iraq, more than 1,000 naval doctors stuck their necks out working on the front lines to save lives. The Marines call them "Devil Docs". They operated under constant danger, armed with scalpels and side arms, and it didn't matter which side of the combat their patients came from. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta spent six weeks with the Devil Docs and brings us their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): These are the sights and sounds of war, but behind each explosion are stories most people turn away from, stories of the injured, maimed, and killed. These stories are not often told, wounds too terrible to remember and often too vivid to forget.

LIEUTENANT TOMMY OLSON, PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT, U.S. NAVY: Some of the things I see here you don't see anywhere in the states, even working inner city hospitals. Large caliber wounds.

GUPTA: These doctors and nurses staff what's called a Forward Resuscitative Surgical System. That's the equivalent of an operating room and six-bed emergency room. They travel to within 20 miles of the front lines. They not only see the human cost of war but hear the stories that go with it, often for the first time.

This young corporal is anxious to tell his story, an assault on an Iraqi location.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm never been inside the building. I got hit before.

GUPTA: He, like many marines, was brought here by helicopter. The doctors here remember the stories as much as the wounds. Hospital medic, Sonja Hamrick, has been in the military for 13 years, a mother of two young girls, this is Hamrick's first experience on the front lines of combat.

SONJA HAMRICK, HOSPITAL MEDIC: I just love their stories. I love how they tell me about their wives, their families, the fact that they're going to live, where they're from. I mean, last night I held a first sergeant's hand as he passed away, and that to me is a story, I mean, although he couldn't tell me where he was from, what he was doing, I could just feel it. And I stayed with him, and he's a story I'll take with me forever. I will always think about him. He'll become my story in my journal. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: CNN medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joining me now here in the studio to tell us more about his experiences with the Devil Docs. Just incredible stuff that you brought to us from the war. Anything in particular that will really stand out in your mind more than something else?

GUPTA: Well, I think the thing that sort of struck me the most was taking a step back and looking at it more philosophically. I mean, two things, you know, one is that these doctors, Devil Docs, a lot of them reservists, had never seen combat before. So, they were sort of being thrown into this mix like a lot of people were. Often times they were asked to make decisions about operating on Iraqis at the same time that marines or coalition force members were being brought in. How they worked through the decision-making process I thought was fascinating.

And then, finally, I think the thing more than anything else, more than the austere conditions, 120 degrees, more than the sand storms were just the images that they see.

Heidi, I don't know that anyone can really prepare themselves for some of the stuff and some of the things that we show in the documentary tonight. These are the real -- the reality of war for a lot of these doctors. Again, they look at these injuries straight on. They don't have the luxury of looking the other way. They look at it. They have to try and save lives. And those images are going to stick with them for a lifetime.

I have been back for just about a month now, and I know images have stuck with me. I can't imagine for doctors what it is going to be like.

COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. I am also wondering -- we had mentioned earlier that 80 percent of the patients that were seen in these sort of Forward Resuscitation Surgical Systems we have also been talking about -- we'll get into that more later -- were Iraqis, and decisions have to be made so quickly.

GUPTA: Right.

COLLINS: What is that like? You mentioned the process.

GUPTA: You know, the very first patient they operated, the unit I was with, was an Iraqi, and the most interesting and poignant thing about that was that they were listening to the radio. They were in the middle of the desert listening to the radio, and they heard now that 12 U.S. soldiers had been captured, and four had been executed. Almost minutes after, that they were wheeling in an Iraqi patient, and that was a very emotional moment for them.

One guy actually turned to me and said, I can't believe we are operating on their guys at the same time they are killing ours. Obviously, an impassioned moment for this particular doctor, but that sort of summed it up, I think. There is legal reasons that the Iraqis were operated on. There are moral reasons. And then there's just medical common sense. Plus they will tell you it's all based on medical triage, not political triage. If a patient stands to benefit more from an operation, if the patient is more likely to survive an operation, it doesn't matter who the patient is or from where they come.

COLLINS: And this is the traditional oath that a doctor takes about saving a human life.

GUPTA: Right. This is part of it. And then the Geneva Accords actually, in 1954, they talked about that in a little bit more detail. They said, you know, no matter who the patients are, again ,the medical units, the Red Cross, the medical units, everyone on the battlefield takes care of patients as they come.

COLLINS: And we were looking at some video there of you actually performing some operations, and we have talked about that issue many times before. Now that you've had time to look back and think about it, how does it make you feel today?

GUPTA: I think it's sort of the same as I felt at the time. You know, again, I thought about it a lot. More so now. But we certainly didn't go to Iraq to be any kind of story, just to cover the story. But, you know, as it turns out, I was the onto neurosurgeon there, and they asked me to help out, and, you know, putting a press pass on is not a bar to humanity, and I think anybody would do that.

I thought about all my colleagues back here at CNN, and, you know, whatever skills that you might have, if you came upon a burning building or burning car, instead of holding the microphone and doing the story, if you could save somebody, I think just about anybody would, and I would like to believe journalists would do that.

Certainly in this particular situation, I ended up operating on five people total, two marines and three Iraqis, and I still think it was absolutely the right thing to do. There was some, you know, there is always the concern about journalists getting too involved with the story, and I think that that is an example to a certain extent, but I think in that particular situation, not doing it would have been crossing the line, you know, as opposed to crossing the line doing it.

COLLINS: Would you cover war again?

GUPTA: I think I would. I think that, you know, from a medical standpoint, I think a lot of advancements are made at war. Certainly, we talk about FRSS, the Forward Resuscitative Surgical System. I got to see that. A lot of people don't get a chance to see that. I got to report on that.

A lot of these advancements are made at war, and I think that's fascinating. But also, you know, this was a very important story, obviously, and for all journalists. And I certainly would go out there again. I don't know that my mom would think that is such a great idea to go back out there again.

COLLINS: I bet she wouldn't.

GUPTA: But it's an important story, and I think I would.

COLLINS: What about following up with any of these patients or the doctors you that worked with. Have you been able to do that?

GUPTA: Well, you know, that's a really important point. First, the doctors, you know, the doctors for the most part are still out there. You know, we came home, but they're still out there. They sort of shifted focus now.

Cholera and chaos really being sort of the two of things going on out there in Iraq for these doctors, and they have set up these large field hospitals, 500-bed hospitals, taking care of a lot of humanitarian issues, which have become very important now as well.

The patients, you know, we didn't get as much follow-up on Iraqi patients. We are trying to trace some of those patients down. We are going to get some of that information as the doctors come home.

Two marines we have actually been in touch with. And then tried to follow up on some of the patients that either made their way to the USS Comfort or to Kuwait City. That's where a lot of these patients ended up.

So, we are hearing some follow-up, and it does look, at least initially, that this FRSS was a positive thing. It did make a difference.

COLLINS: Yes, $330,000 per tent. I mean, I just can't imagine the type of high-tech equipment that is in there that is actually saving lives and in such a short amount of time that it takes to set one up, right?

GUPTA: Really remarkable. Doctors, nurses, the medics are doing this on their own. A portable operating room and all the things that go with that, general anesthesia, all the surgical equipment, an operating table, the lights, all that sort of stuff. A lot of that cost really is for the equipment, but also the portability of this sort of thing.

Heidi, you are absolutely right. It breaks down in an hour and sets back up in an hour, and the real reason for that is so that it could move with the front line troops. They didn't want to be the limiting step. They wanted to be able to move as troops move. That's where a lot of these costs came in.

But, again, you know, the numbers will show how effective this thing was and whether or not it made sense to put doctors in harm's way in order to save patients' lives. But at least initially, it looked like it was successful.

COLLINS: Last question for you, Sanjay quickly. Anything that you will take with you now as a doctor here in the U.S. from this experience in Iraq? GUPTA: Yes, you know, one thing I learned is that I think we get so used to our bright, shiny hospitals and everything, and obviously that is the best care. I think we see the best care in the world here in the United States.

But I also saw what was possible, doctors taking care of patients in the middle of the desert in tents with wind blowing, 120 degrees. I think I -- on a personal note, I think I saw what was possible. On a more global note, I think that the overall medicine is going to learn a lot from this particular surgical system. They are going to learn about how to take care of patients.

I wouldn't be surprised, Heidi, if we see sorts of tents cropping up in urban centers, you know, that take care of mass casualties for explosions, like Oklahoma City or mass casualties like that. You might start to see this thing if the numbers pan out.

COLLINS: Makes sense. All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. We do appreciate it, and once again, I want to remind everyone that you can see more of the Devil Docs' extraordinary efforts tonight. "CNN Presents" will bring you an in depth look at the conditions they operated in and the life and death decisions they dealt with on a daily basis. That show begins at 8:00 Eastern time tonight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com