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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Jason Berry

Aired June 15, 2003 - 16:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The head of the Roman Catholic Church's U.S. Sexual Abuse Oversight Panel is reportedly quitting. The "Los Angeles Times" says former Oklahoma governor, Frank Keating, is leaving the church's national review board under pressure from a majority of its members.
Keating sparked controversy last week when he accused some bishops of obstructing the board's inquiry, and compared them to the Mafia. He criticized Los Angeles cardinal, Roger Mahoney, by name. Reports of Keating's departure are getting approval from clerics offended by his blunt language, but some advocates for victims of priest abuse are suspicious.

On the phone with us now, from New Orleans is Jason Berry, co- author of "Lead Us Not Into Temptation -- Catholic Priests And The Sexual Abuse Of Children". All right, Jason, thanks very much for joining us. So what's your take on this? Is he likely to step down, and do you believe it's merited?

JASON BERRY, CO-AUTHOR OF "LEAD U.S. NOT INTO TEMPTATION": Oh, yes, he's definitely quitting. And I think he should. He made a terrible mistake. You can't make a comment like that and expect to lead a review board that is trying to bring about reform.

WHITFIELD: And what does this now do to the efforts of the review board? Does it take them back a few steps?

BERRY: No, I don't think it takes them back a few steps at all. In fact, ironically, I think it strengthens their hand. Frank Keating was, is a -- I hesitate to call him a hothead. That would be too strong. But outspoken would be a charitable understatement.

And he consistently, I think, pleased many of the victims' groups by speaking out and being very critical of the hierarchy. But at the same time, he was in a position where you really have to gather information carefully. The weight, the power, the legacy of that review board is going to be in its report, which they have to produce by the end of the year. And I don't think he was really as focused on the internal work as he should have been.

WHITFIELD: That he was tough, or at least that he has a reputation of being tough, might that have been exactly why he was recruited for this job?

BERRY: Oh, absolutely. Yes. I think Bishop Wilton Gregory, who was one of the key people selecting him -- who selected him, felt that because he was a former FBI agent and a former prosecutor, that, you know, he would be the kind of man, the kind of political leader with the credibility, with the news media and the survivors groups, that would help, you know, the bishops in their mission to try to restore credibility in the church.

Unfortunately, I think he lost interest in the day-to-day activities of the committee. At least, that's kind of my sense. And on top of that, he was really, I think, speaking out in ways that didn't really come to his own benefit in the end. And, you know, when he made the comparison with the Costa Nostra, I think it was a bit much for many of the people involved.

WHITFIELD: How is it Frank Keating was expected to restore credibility that perhaps the courts couldn't do?

BERRY: Well, when you have someone, a politician, an elected official of that stature, who agrees to lead an effort by a board to deliver a report that will tell the bishops, this is what you did wrong, and now here's what you must do to repair the damage. That's a tall order. And, you know, I think he could have -- certainly could have delivered. But I think his own words got in the way.

WHITFIELD: Well, before this recent spate of criticism, was he well-received among some of the victims or perhaps even among some of the bishops?

BERRY: Yes. He was certainly well-received among the victims groups. My sense is that the bishops had a kind of mixed view of him. Some of them felt that he was too outspoken. You know, there are a lot of bishops out there who are as dismayed as everyone else in the church about what has transpired. And yet there are other bishops who, I think, have still not gotten the message.

Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles has not been dealing, at least from what I understand, in a very forthright way with the review board, has not given them all the information they wanted. Cardinal Egan of New York as much as stiff-armed the entire group on a trip they made to New York. And so when you have two of the most powerful prelates in the country, cardinals on the east and west coast, who are sort of standing aloof from the reform process, I think the man in the center, in this case Governor Keating, former Governor Keating, got miffed. I think other people on the board were miffed, by it but they didn't speak out the way Keating did.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jason Berry, co-author of "Lead Us Not Into Temptation", thanks very much for your comments on what is expected to be the reported stepping down as the head of the Roman Catholic Church's U.S. Sexual Abuse Oversight Panel of Frank Keating.

BERRY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired June 15, 2003 - 16:17   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The head of the Roman Catholic Church's U.S. Sexual Abuse Oversight Panel is reportedly quitting. The "Los Angeles Times" says former Oklahoma governor, Frank Keating, is leaving the church's national review board under pressure from a majority of its members.
Keating sparked controversy last week when he accused some bishops of obstructing the board's inquiry, and compared them to the Mafia. He criticized Los Angeles cardinal, Roger Mahoney, by name. Reports of Keating's departure are getting approval from clerics offended by his blunt language, but some advocates for victims of priest abuse are suspicious.

On the phone with us now, from New Orleans is Jason Berry, co- author of "Lead Us Not Into Temptation -- Catholic Priests And The Sexual Abuse Of Children". All right, Jason, thanks very much for joining us. So what's your take on this? Is he likely to step down, and do you believe it's merited?

JASON BERRY, CO-AUTHOR OF "LEAD U.S. NOT INTO TEMPTATION": Oh, yes, he's definitely quitting. And I think he should. He made a terrible mistake. You can't make a comment like that and expect to lead a review board that is trying to bring about reform.

WHITFIELD: And what does this now do to the efforts of the review board? Does it take them back a few steps?

BERRY: No, I don't think it takes them back a few steps at all. In fact, ironically, I think it strengthens their hand. Frank Keating was, is a -- I hesitate to call him a hothead. That would be too strong. But outspoken would be a charitable understatement.

And he consistently, I think, pleased many of the victims' groups by speaking out and being very critical of the hierarchy. But at the same time, he was in a position where you really have to gather information carefully. The weight, the power, the legacy of that review board is going to be in its report, which they have to produce by the end of the year. And I don't think he was really as focused on the internal work as he should have been.

WHITFIELD: That he was tough, or at least that he has a reputation of being tough, might that have been exactly why he was recruited for this job?

BERRY: Oh, absolutely. Yes. I think Bishop Wilton Gregory, who was one of the key people selecting him -- who selected him, felt that because he was a former FBI agent and a former prosecutor, that, you know, he would be the kind of man, the kind of political leader with the credibility, with the news media and the survivors groups, that would help, you know, the bishops in their mission to try to restore credibility in the church.

Unfortunately, I think he lost interest in the day-to-day activities of the committee. At least, that's kind of my sense. And on top of that, he was really, I think, speaking out in ways that didn't really come to his own benefit in the end. And, you know, when he made the comparison with the Costa Nostra, I think it was a bit much for many of the people involved.

WHITFIELD: How is it Frank Keating was expected to restore credibility that perhaps the courts couldn't do?

BERRY: Well, when you have someone, a politician, an elected official of that stature, who agrees to lead an effort by a board to deliver a report that will tell the bishops, this is what you did wrong, and now here's what you must do to repair the damage. That's a tall order. And, you know, I think he could have -- certainly could have delivered. But I think his own words got in the way.

WHITFIELD: Well, before this recent spate of criticism, was he well-received among some of the victims or perhaps even among some of the bishops?

BERRY: Yes. He was certainly well-received among the victims groups. My sense is that the bishops had a kind of mixed view of him. Some of them felt that he was too outspoken. You know, there are a lot of bishops out there who are as dismayed as everyone else in the church about what has transpired. And yet there are other bishops who, I think, have still not gotten the message.

Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles has not been dealing, at least from what I understand, in a very forthright way with the review board, has not given them all the information they wanted. Cardinal Egan of New York as much as stiff-armed the entire group on a trip they made to New York. And so when you have two of the most powerful prelates in the country, cardinals on the east and west coast, who are sort of standing aloof from the reform process, I think the man in the center, in this case Governor Keating, former Governor Keating, got miffed. I think other people on the board were miffed, by it but they didn't speak out the way Keating did.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jason Berry, co-author of "Lead Us Not Into Temptation", thanks very much for your comments on what is expected to be the reported stepping down as the head of the Roman Catholic Church's U.S. Sexual Abuse Oversight Panel of Frank Keating.

BERRY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com