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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Kendall Coffey

Aired July 13, 2003 - 16:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN ANCHOR: In California, the high-profile trial of two Inglewood police officers resumes tomorrow. They are charged with assault and filing a false report in last year's arrest of 17-year-old Donovan Jackson. Catherine Blake of affiliate KCAL has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CATHERINE BLAKE, KCAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jackson, now 17 years old, told the jury that he was sitting in a patrol car at a gas station last July when four or five police officers rushed toward him. He testified that former Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse punched him in the jaw. He claims Morse and his partner, Bijan Darvish, hit him several more times, then wrestled him to the ground, when Jackson claims he was hit in the head with a baton or flashlight and choked.

During direct examination, the prosecutor asked, "Donovan, you remember being choked. What happened next?" Jackson replied, "I passed out." Prosecutor, "out cold?" Jackson, "yes."

Jackson went on to testify that he doesn't remember anything from that point until he got into the ambulance.

During cross-examination, Morse's attorney tried to prove that Jackson had provoked the officers by resisting arrest and fighting. Attorney John Barnett (ph) asked, "so you can't tell this jury that you did not grab Jeremy Morse's testicles while you were on the back of the car because you don't know, correct?" Jackson, "yeah."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHAFFLER: Again, that was Catherine Blake of affiliate KCAL. Now for more on this case we're joined by former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey. Good to talk to you this afternoon.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Good to see you.

SCHAFFLER: Well, I guess the first question I would like to ask. What about this situation here where this young man says he just doesn't remember what happened. How does a case proceed in a matter like this?

COFFEY: Normally, that would be a big problem in a case because of course a victim saying there are gaps, I just don't know, really makes it that much harder to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. But here you've got, of course, the videotape. And there's nothing that gets you more busted than being seen on a videotape. And whatever the police may say about prior provocation, the reality is that once a suspect is handcuffed, even if he's resisted, even if he's been resisting somewhat violently, you can't retaliate when somebody is completely secured in handcuffs. And that's what the essence of the prosecution case is.

SCHAFFLER: Would there be a case if there wasn't this tape?

COFFEY: I don't think so. Realistically, these kind of allegations are heard all the time. And what makes this a case is the videotape. Without it there would be no trial going on right now.

SCHAFFLER: What's the prosecution's strategy here?

COFFEY: The prosecution has the videotape. And they also need, I think, to address the fact that Donovan Jackson himself is in some ways a somewhat confused witness. He doesn't make a strong prosecution case, and he creates some holes. I think what the prosecution needs to do is two things. They need to establish that precisely because he may be developmentally disabled he is more vulnerable. Not an unreliable witness but more of a victim. The second thing they have to do is get ready for the cross-examination of Officer Morse because this is one case where I think the defendant, Morse, is going to need to take the stand.

SCHAFFLER: What happens when you have these allegations of police brutality typically?

COFFEY: Well, they're very tough cases to prove. The reality is that police are very properly seen as heroes rather than villains, and the normal stuff, victim testimony by itself, usually isn't enough to get a conviction. You need the legal equivalent of kryptonite. And you may have it here with that videotape.

SCHAFFLER: At this point who has the stronger case, would you say?

COFFEY: Well, so far you've got to say that the defense is facing an uphill battle. What they will probably have to do, I think -- remember, there are two cases. There's the false statement case against Officer Darvish, completely different zone of concern there, and probably a better, stronger case for the defense. And then you've got Officer Morse, who's on video. What I think you're going to see is Officer Morse taking the stand, and then this will become a one- witness case, does the jury or don't they believe Officer Morse?

SCHAFFLER: Well, how does he have any sort of chance when you see a tape like that? What can he possibly say?

COFFEY: There are going to be gaps in the videotapes. He's got an explanation of how he was grabbed, being effectively harmed by the alleged victim at the very time we're seeing this Donovan Jackson being slammed against the hood. He's going to rely on the gaps in the videotape, fill them in with his own explanation. And if the jury believes him, and he is a police officer, he's got a shot at getting an acquittal.

SCHAFFLER: Is race going to be a factor?

COFFEY: We hope not. But everyone on that jury has got to be aware of the legacy of Rodney King. And while that shouldn't be a factor, jurors are human beings, too.

SCHAFFLER: So they'll naturally make the comparison?

COFFEY: Well, there's got to be a troubling legacy from that prior verdict, where in 1992 most people believed the jury did not do its job when it acquitted police officers despite videotape evidence. Here I think that may be a subconscious factor in some way. is this jury going to want to be seen as failing to do its job by acquitting a police officer where there appears to be videotape evidence of excessive force?

SCHAFFLER: If there are no acquittals, do these police officers serve jail-time?

COFFEY: These police officers will go to jail if they are convicted.

SCHAFFLER: Talk to me a little bit about the Kobe Bryant story. As you know, today first comments coming out. How do you think that's going to play out in the next couple of days?

COFFEY: I think one very positive thing that has happened here as the public has really withheld judgment. There has not been an immediate he must be guilty or she the accuser, whoever she might be, is making it up to extract some kind of multimillion-dollar settlement. I think very properly people are waiting for the authorities to do their job. And irrespective of the initial arrest by police officers, the decision of whether there's a prosecutor is in the hands of the prosecution lawyers themselves, who are deciding it right now. Hopefully, one way or another there will be word in the next few days as to what that decision's going to be.

SCHAFFLER: Kendall Coffey, former U.S. attorney, we very much appreciate your insight. Thanks.

COFFEY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired July 13, 2003 - 16:43   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN ANCHOR: In California, the high-profile trial of two Inglewood police officers resumes tomorrow. They are charged with assault and filing a false report in last year's arrest of 17-year-old Donovan Jackson. Catherine Blake of affiliate KCAL has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CATHERINE BLAKE, KCAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jackson, now 17 years old, told the jury that he was sitting in a patrol car at a gas station last July when four or five police officers rushed toward him. He testified that former Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse punched him in the jaw. He claims Morse and his partner, Bijan Darvish, hit him several more times, then wrestled him to the ground, when Jackson claims he was hit in the head with a baton or flashlight and choked.

During direct examination, the prosecutor asked, "Donovan, you remember being choked. What happened next?" Jackson replied, "I passed out." Prosecutor, "out cold?" Jackson, "yes."

Jackson went on to testify that he doesn't remember anything from that point until he got into the ambulance.

During cross-examination, Morse's attorney tried to prove that Jackson had provoked the officers by resisting arrest and fighting. Attorney John Barnett (ph) asked, "so you can't tell this jury that you did not grab Jeremy Morse's testicles while you were on the back of the car because you don't know, correct?" Jackson, "yeah."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHAFFLER: Again, that was Catherine Blake of affiliate KCAL. Now for more on this case we're joined by former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey. Good to talk to you this afternoon.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Good to see you.

SCHAFFLER: Well, I guess the first question I would like to ask. What about this situation here where this young man says he just doesn't remember what happened. How does a case proceed in a matter like this?

COFFEY: Normally, that would be a big problem in a case because of course a victim saying there are gaps, I just don't know, really makes it that much harder to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. But here you've got, of course, the videotape. And there's nothing that gets you more busted than being seen on a videotape. And whatever the police may say about prior provocation, the reality is that once a suspect is handcuffed, even if he's resisted, even if he's been resisting somewhat violently, you can't retaliate when somebody is completely secured in handcuffs. And that's what the essence of the prosecution case is.

SCHAFFLER: Would there be a case if there wasn't this tape?

COFFEY: I don't think so. Realistically, these kind of allegations are heard all the time. And what makes this a case is the videotape. Without it there would be no trial going on right now.

SCHAFFLER: What's the prosecution's strategy here?

COFFEY: The prosecution has the videotape. And they also need, I think, to address the fact that Donovan Jackson himself is in some ways a somewhat confused witness. He doesn't make a strong prosecution case, and he creates some holes. I think what the prosecution needs to do is two things. They need to establish that precisely because he may be developmentally disabled he is more vulnerable. Not an unreliable witness but more of a victim. The second thing they have to do is get ready for the cross-examination of Officer Morse because this is one case where I think the defendant, Morse, is going to need to take the stand.

SCHAFFLER: What happens when you have these allegations of police brutality typically?

COFFEY: Well, they're very tough cases to prove. The reality is that police are very properly seen as heroes rather than villains, and the normal stuff, victim testimony by itself, usually isn't enough to get a conviction. You need the legal equivalent of kryptonite. And you may have it here with that videotape.

SCHAFFLER: At this point who has the stronger case, would you say?

COFFEY: Well, so far you've got to say that the defense is facing an uphill battle. What they will probably have to do, I think -- remember, there are two cases. There's the false statement case against Officer Darvish, completely different zone of concern there, and probably a better, stronger case for the defense. And then you've got Officer Morse, who's on video. What I think you're going to see is Officer Morse taking the stand, and then this will become a one- witness case, does the jury or don't they believe Officer Morse?

SCHAFFLER: Well, how does he have any sort of chance when you see a tape like that? What can he possibly say?

COFFEY: There are going to be gaps in the videotapes. He's got an explanation of how he was grabbed, being effectively harmed by the alleged victim at the very time we're seeing this Donovan Jackson being slammed against the hood. He's going to rely on the gaps in the videotape, fill them in with his own explanation. And if the jury believes him, and he is a police officer, he's got a shot at getting an acquittal.

SCHAFFLER: Is race going to be a factor?

COFFEY: We hope not. But everyone on that jury has got to be aware of the legacy of Rodney King. And while that shouldn't be a factor, jurors are human beings, too.

SCHAFFLER: So they'll naturally make the comparison?

COFFEY: Well, there's got to be a troubling legacy from that prior verdict, where in 1992 most people believed the jury did not do its job when it acquitted police officers despite videotape evidence. Here I think that may be a subconscious factor in some way. is this jury going to want to be seen as failing to do its job by acquitting a police officer where there appears to be videotape evidence of excessive force?

SCHAFFLER: If there are no acquittals, do these police officers serve jail-time?

COFFEY: These police officers will go to jail if they are convicted.

SCHAFFLER: Talk to me a little bit about the Kobe Bryant story. As you know, today first comments coming out. How do you think that's going to play out in the next couple of days?

COFFEY: I think one very positive thing that has happened here as the public has really withheld judgment. There has not been an immediate he must be guilty or she the accuser, whoever she might be, is making it up to extract some kind of multimillion-dollar settlement. I think very properly people are waiting for the authorities to do their job. And irrespective of the initial arrest by police officers, the decision of whether there's a prosecutor is in the hands of the prosecution lawyers themselves, who are deciding it right now. Hopefully, one way or another there will be word in the next few days as to what that decision's going to be.

SCHAFFLER: Kendall Coffey, former U.S. attorney, we very much appreciate your insight. Thanks.

COFFEY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com