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CNN Live Sunday
Interview With Genevieve Wood, David Smith
Aired July 13, 2003 - 18:51 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: The state Supreme Court is set to tackle a tricky issue in Massachusetts, should gay marriages be legal? The court is expected to issue a ruling tomorrow on same sex marriages. Seven gay couples have sued the state saying they're being discriminated against. Currently, Vermont is the only state that legally recognizes same sex unions.
Gay marriage is a subject people can get pretty heated about. There are a number of legal and moral arguments for both sides. David Smith is the Communications Director and Strategist for Human Rights Campaign and Genevieve Wood is the Vice President of the Family Research Council. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
DAVID SMITH, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Thanks, Sophia.
GENEVIEVE WOOD, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Thank you.
CHOI: So, let me start with you Genevieve. How do you think the Massachusetts Supreme Court should rule and why?
WOOD: Well, it's very difficult to say how any court is going to rule on something but obviously what we're concerned about is that they're going to legalize in the state of Massachusetts so-called gay marriage and the concern there is not just for the people of Massachusetts, though that's a concern, because I think the majority are opposed to this.
But the concern is that couples from -- other gay couples from other states will come to Massachusetts, get married, go back to their home states whether it's Texas, California, wherever it happens to be and challenge their state to recognize it.
And, of course, 37 states in this country right now have what we call a Defensive Marriage Act saying that marriage is between a man and a woman and they don't have to recognize a gay marriage from another state but, of course, that can be challenged and our concern is that it will be/.
And, that's what's happening is the courts are taking over this decision as opposed to the people, as opposed to state legislators, as opposed to Congress. We have courts making these decisions.
CHOI: All right, David, give me your argument.
SMITH: Sophia, from a very early age we're all taught that one of the great aspirations in life is to find our soul mate, fall in love, raise a family. Gay and lesbian families or gay people are no different.
According to the U.S. Census, gay families are living in nearly every county in this county and they're simply seeking to be treated equally under the law, seeking -- they've taken on the responsibilities of marriage and they're simply seeking the protection that is offered by being treated equally by conferring civil marriage rights.
And, again we're talking about civil marriage rights. This isn't about religion. Religion should be able to define marriage as they see fit. Nothing is going to change that.
But, we believe the state should treat all people equally and that couples that are committed to one another, lifelong commitments to one another, should be able to visit one another in the hospital in case of a catastrophic accident, should be able to share health care costs, should be able to get an insurance policy together. These are some of the basic rights that they're seeking and it's simply a matter of being treated equally.
CHOI: David, in fact, you liken gay marriages to interracial marriages.
SMITH: Well, I believe in the pre-interview I said that -- we were talking about public opinion and that public opinion is not supportive of gay people being allowed to marry right now and I pointed out that the Loving v. Virginia case when that was decided, 15 years later only 43 percent supported allowing people of different races to marry.
So, public opinion is trending in our direction. Most people support treating, giving the rights and benefits of marriage to gay and lesbian couples, 49 percent support civil unions, and it's certainly trending but the country is grappling with this issue.
They do want to see gay and lesbian people protected. They want to see them treated equally under the law and we believe eventually they will be able to enter into civil marriages.
CHOI: But, Genevieve, you don't really buy David's numbers that he's putting out there?
WOOD: Well, I mean look, you can look at whatever poll you want and come up with numbers that you want but here's the concern, Sophia. Look, once we decide that we're going to redefine what marriage is, we're going to redefine what family is, there's no reason to stop redefining.
If all marriage is is two adults or consenting adults who love each other coming together and deciding they want to get married and they should have the rights as every man and woman in this country who get married, then what about those who say well, look, I'm a guy and I'm in love with three women and they're in love with me and we want to get married and we want to have all the same rights as well.
SMITH: Luckily, America doesn't buy that argument. WOOD: Well, but David...
(CROSSTALK)
CHOI: David, let Genevieve finish and we'll get final thoughts. Let's let Genevieve finish.
WOOD: David, hold on.
SMITH: Go ahead.
WOOD: I mean the logic that David was using earlier is that we should go by the courts and not listen to public opinion. The fact is the government in this country has an interest in making sure that families stay strong and that marriages stay strong.
We've always recognized that as being between a man and a woman, primarily because we believe that's the best place to raise children in a home made up of a man and a woman. We've seen what's happened to families in this country when we've weakened that kind of marriage...
CHOI: Genevieve.
WOOD: ...by allowing divorce to be earlier, cohabitation, and I don't think we want to redefine it further.
CHOI: We have 15 seconds left, David you got 15 seconds.
WOOD: Sure.
SMITH: The fairest and the easiest way to ensure that gay couples are afforded the same equal rights under the law is to allow them to enter into civil marriages. It's not a threat to Genevieve's marriage or any other person's marriage.
The bottom line is we're simply seeking to be treated equally under the law, to be able to visit our partner in the hospital in case of a catastrophic accident, and I believe most Americans agree with that and I believe they're rapidly moving to consensus around that union.
WOOD: They believe you have the same rights which I have and you do. You can marry a woman and I can marry a man, but I can't marry a woman and you can't marry a man.
Smith: My relationship -- my relationship, I'm a stranger under the law. Our relationship is a stranger under the law, Genevieve.
CHOI: Let me just say this decision will definitely be a landmark case. It's getting heated already and we will definitely be hearing more from the both of you.
SMITH: Thanks, Sophia, for having us.
CHOI: And from many other commentators on this tomorrow. It will be huge, thanks. WOOD: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 13, 2003 - 18:51 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: The state Supreme Court is set to tackle a tricky issue in Massachusetts, should gay marriages be legal? The court is expected to issue a ruling tomorrow on same sex marriages. Seven gay couples have sued the state saying they're being discriminated against. Currently, Vermont is the only state that legally recognizes same sex unions.
Gay marriage is a subject people can get pretty heated about. There are a number of legal and moral arguments for both sides. David Smith is the Communications Director and Strategist for Human Rights Campaign and Genevieve Wood is the Vice President of the Family Research Council. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
DAVID SMITH, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Thanks, Sophia.
GENEVIEVE WOOD, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Thank you.
CHOI: So, let me start with you Genevieve. How do you think the Massachusetts Supreme Court should rule and why?
WOOD: Well, it's very difficult to say how any court is going to rule on something but obviously what we're concerned about is that they're going to legalize in the state of Massachusetts so-called gay marriage and the concern there is not just for the people of Massachusetts, though that's a concern, because I think the majority are opposed to this.
But the concern is that couples from -- other gay couples from other states will come to Massachusetts, get married, go back to their home states whether it's Texas, California, wherever it happens to be and challenge their state to recognize it.
And, of course, 37 states in this country right now have what we call a Defensive Marriage Act saying that marriage is between a man and a woman and they don't have to recognize a gay marriage from another state but, of course, that can be challenged and our concern is that it will be/.
And, that's what's happening is the courts are taking over this decision as opposed to the people, as opposed to state legislators, as opposed to Congress. We have courts making these decisions.
CHOI: All right, David, give me your argument.
SMITH: Sophia, from a very early age we're all taught that one of the great aspirations in life is to find our soul mate, fall in love, raise a family. Gay and lesbian families or gay people are no different.
According to the U.S. Census, gay families are living in nearly every county in this county and they're simply seeking to be treated equally under the law, seeking -- they've taken on the responsibilities of marriage and they're simply seeking the protection that is offered by being treated equally by conferring civil marriage rights.
And, again we're talking about civil marriage rights. This isn't about religion. Religion should be able to define marriage as they see fit. Nothing is going to change that.
But, we believe the state should treat all people equally and that couples that are committed to one another, lifelong commitments to one another, should be able to visit one another in the hospital in case of a catastrophic accident, should be able to share health care costs, should be able to get an insurance policy together. These are some of the basic rights that they're seeking and it's simply a matter of being treated equally.
CHOI: David, in fact, you liken gay marriages to interracial marriages.
SMITH: Well, I believe in the pre-interview I said that -- we were talking about public opinion and that public opinion is not supportive of gay people being allowed to marry right now and I pointed out that the Loving v. Virginia case when that was decided, 15 years later only 43 percent supported allowing people of different races to marry.
So, public opinion is trending in our direction. Most people support treating, giving the rights and benefits of marriage to gay and lesbian couples, 49 percent support civil unions, and it's certainly trending but the country is grappling with this issue.
They do want to see gay and lesbian people protected. They want to see them treated equally under the law and we believe eventually they will be able to enter into civil marriages.
CHOI: But, Genevieve, you don't really buy David's numbers that he's putting out there?
WOOD: Well, I mean look, you can look at whatever poll you want and come up with numbers that you want but here's the concern, Sophia. Look, once we decide that we're going to redefine what marriage is, we're going to redefine what family is, there's no reason to stop redefining.
If all marriage is is two adults or consenting adults who love each other coming together and deciding they want to get married and they should have the rights as every man and woman in this country who get married, then what about those who say well, look, I'm a guy and I'm in love with three women and they're in love with me and we want to get married and we want to have all the same rights as well.
SMITH: Luckily, America doesn't buy that argument. WOOD: Well, but David...
(CROSSTALK)
CHOI: David, let Genevieve finish and we'll get final thoughts. Let's let Genevieve finish.
WOOD: David, hold on.
SMITH: Go ahead.
WOOD: I mean the logic that David was using earlier is that we should go by the courts and not listen to public opinion. The fact is the government in this country has an interest in making sure that families stay strong and that marriages stay strong.
We've always recognized that as being between a man and a woman, primarily because we believe that's the best place to raise children in a home made up of a man and a woman. We've seen what's happened to families in this country when we've weakened that kind of marriage...
CHOI: Genevieve.
WOOD: ...by allowing divorce to be earlier, cohabitation, and I don't think we want to redefine it further.
CHOI: We have 15 seconds left, David you got 15 seconds.
WOOD: Sure.
SMITH: The fairest and the easiest way to ensure that gay couples are afforded the same equal rights under the law is to allow them to enter into civil marriages. It's not a threat to Genevieve's marriage or any other person's marriage.
The bottom line is we're simply seeking to be treated equally under the law, to be able to visit our partner in the hospital in case of a catastrophic accident, and I believe most Americans agree with that and I believe they're rapidly moving to consensus around that union.
WOOD: They believe you have the same rights which I have and you do. You can marry a woman and I can marry a man, but I can't marry a woman and you can't marry a man.
Smith: My relationship -- my relationship, I'm a stranger under the law. Our relationship is a stranger under the law, Genevieve.
CHOI: Let me just say this decision will definitely be a landmark case. It's getting heated already and we will definitely be hearing more from the both of you.
SMITH: Thanks, Sophia, for having us.
CHOI: And from many other commentators on this tomorrow. It will be huge, thanks. WOOD: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
