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CNN Live Sunday

Sources Say Military Is Very Close To Saddam

Aired July 27, 2003 - 16:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Some of our sources say U.S. forces may be less than a day behind Saddam Hussein. For his thoughts and perspective, let's bring in our military analyst, retired general, Don Shepperd. He is joining us today from Tucson, Arizona. General, you heard that report from Harris Whitbeck. U.S. forces had been raiding not only a home in central Baghdad but also several farmhouses in Tikrit. With Saddam Hussein moving around, they believe, every several hours, does that make it easier or more difficult for U.S. forces to try to track him down?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, it may be easier than before, but it's still going to be very difficult, Andrea. This -- the raids that we're hearing about are based upon specific intelligence, second level intelligence from the people themselves, perhaps from relatives. These are not just teams going out, scouring the area and looking at random.

They are going after based upon specific intelligence that they believe to be true. And it appears that they're getting closer, but on the other hand it's very, very difficult in these situations to put any kind of timetable on it because he's going to be well protected. He's slippery. He's got a lot of money to buy his way out. It's still going to be difficult, Andrea.

KOPPEL: Well, you have to believe that just about every tool in the U.S. technology shed, in terms of signals, intelligence is being used in this. It sounds like what you're saying is that perhaps human intelligence may be playing a more important or decisive factor in trying to locate Saddam and some of his cronies.

SHEPPERD: Yes. I think human intelligence will be the final key. Now, we have got a lot of things looking for this guy and his henchmen all over the country, concentrating on the area, right now it appears, around Tikrit, following leads everywhere. But we are listening to conversations. We are watching with things such as the Predator and other drones.

We have soldiers on the ground blocking escape routes and searching routes. We have Special Forces soldiers inserted. We have CIA agents. We have paid informers out there. So there's a whole network. And on top of all of that, Andrea, we have this huge reward looming over his head. In the end, it's my belief that somebody in his own family will rat him out, maybe for the reward, maybe not, but that will be his doing.

KOPPEL: Certainly the sense one gets is that the U.S. is closing in, and that is what some sources are telling our reporters on the ground. But you know, there was the raid in Mosul which ended in the deaths of Saddam Hussein's sons, and then the raid today, Tikrit. Do you get the sense that they really are closing in? If so, what are the indicators?

SHEPPERD: I do get the sense that they are closing in because of the massive number of reports that we're hearing, some of them probably caused by the success in getting Uday and Qusay. On the other hand, basically, it appears that we're getting more and more information, we're launching more and more raids out there based upon that information, not just chasing phantoms out there but targeted raids.

Now, a lot of this information is probably planted by people that want to distract us. But I get the overall sense, because of the level of operations, the number of reports, and indeed, the reports from the command itself that says it's just a matter of time, all of those indicate to me that we're getting very, very close. Still hard to put a day or a time on it, Andrea.

KOPPEL: How do the military tactics, if they do at all, change when they get the sense that they may be closing in?

SHEPPERD: They basically don't change. Here's what we do in one of these types of operations. We don't just throw together a bunch of people and run out there based upon a hint or even a report. Basically, what we do is we gather the intelligence first. We evaluate that intelligence. Then we get together a plan, a planning cell, much of which has been predone.

Then we assemble the force and move it to the area and either surround or close off escape routes. And then we execute the plan. And then while we're executing the plan things will happen we don't expect, other things will pop up we'll have to react to. And that's all done through command and control mechanisms and checked with higher levels in the chain of command if necessary.

In the end, Andrea, what happens to Saddam Hussein is going to be decided by two factors; one, what he does and the people around him, whether he gives up or is killed. And the other is going to be decided by the people on the scene in the military, whether or not to shoot or whether to surround and offer him the chance to come out, but making sure they don't miss him.

KOPPEL: OK. Well, we know there are some folks who'd like to be $25 million richer if, in fact, they're the ones who tip the military off. General Don Shepperd, thank you very much for joining us.

SHEPPERD: Pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired July 27, 2003 - 16:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Some of our sources say U.S. forces may be less than a day behind Saddam Hussein. For his thoughts and perspective, let's bring in our military analyst, retired general, Don Shepperd. He is joining us today from Tucson, Arizona. General, you heard that report from Harris Whitbeck. U.S. forces had been raiding not only a home in central Baghdad but also several farmhouses in Tikrit. With Saddam Hussein moving around, they believe, every several hours, does that make it easier or more difficult for U.S. forces to try to track him down?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, it may be easier than before, but it's still going to be very difficult, Andrea. This -- the raids that we're hearing about are based upon specific intelligence, second level intelligence from the people themselves, perhaps from relatives. These are not just teams going out, scouring the area and looking at random.

They are going after based upon specific intelligence that they believe to be true. And it appears that they're getting closer, but on the other hand it's very, very difficult in these situations to put any kind of timetable on it because he's going to be well protected. He's slippery. He's got a lot of money to buy his way out. It's still going to be difficult, Andrea.

KOPPEL: Well, you have to believe that just about every tool in the U.S. technology shed, in terms of signals, intelligence is being used in this. It sounds like what you're saying is that perhaps human intelligence may be playing a more important or decisive factor in trying to locate Saddam and some of his cronies.

SHEPPERD: Yes. I think human intelligence will be the final key. Now, we have got a lot of things looking for this guy and his henchmen all over the country, concentrating on the area, right now it appears, around Tikrit, following leads everywhere. But we are listening to conversations. We are watching with things such as the Predator and other drones.

We have soldiers on the ground blocking escape routes and searching routes. We have Special Forces soldiers inserted. We have CIA agents. We have paid informers out there. So there's a whole network. And on top of all of that, Andrea, we have this huge reward looming over his head. In the end, it's my belief that somebody in his own family will rat him out, maybe for the reward, maybe not, but that will be his doing.

KOPPEL: Certainly the sense one gets is that the U.S. is closing in, and that is what some sources are telling our reporters on the ground. But you know, there was the raid in Mosul which ended in the deaths of Saddam Hussein's sons, and then the raid today, Tikrit. Do you get the sense that they really are closing in? If so, what are the indicators?

SHEPPERD: I do get the sense that they are closing in because of the massive number of reports that we're hearing, some of them probably caused by the success in getting Uday and Qusay. On the other hand, basically, it appears that we're getting more and more information, we're launching more and more raids out there based upon that information, not just chasing phantoms out there but targeted raids.

Now, a lot of this information is probably planted by people that want to distract us. But I get the overall sense, because of the level of operations, the number of reports, and indeed, the reports from the command itself that says it's just a matter of time, all of those indicate to me that we're getting very, very close. Still hard to put a day or a time on it, Andrea.

KOPPEL: How do the military tactics, if they do at all, change when they get the sense that they may be closing in?

SHEPPERD: They basically don't change. Here's what we do in one of these types of operations. We don't just throw together a bunch of people and run out there based upon a hint or even a report. Basically, what we do is we gather the intelligence first. We evaluate that intelligence. Then we get together a plan, a planning cell, much of which has been predone.

Then we assemble the force and move it to the area and either surround or close off escape routes. And then we execute the plan. And then while we're executing the plan things will happen we don't expect, other things will pop up we'll have to react to. And that's all done through command and control mechanisms and checked with higher levels in the chain of command if necessary.

In the end, Andrea, what happens to Saddam Hussein is going to be decided by two factors; one, what he does and the people around him, whether he gives up or is killed. And the other is going to be decided by the people on the scene in the military, whether or not to shoot or whether to surround and offer him the chance to come out, but making sure they don't miss him.

KOPPEL: OK. Well, we know there are some folks who'd like to be $25 million richer if, in fact, they're the ones who tip the military off. General Don Shepperd, thank you very much for joining us.

SHEPPERD: Pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com