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CNN Live Sunday
Is The U.S. Spending Too Much On Iraq?
Aired October 12, 2003 - 18:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Anniversaries like the one in Bali can prompt tough questions about the war on terror. How far have we come and who is winning and is the U.S. spending too much on Iraq?
Joining me now are radio talk show host Martha Zoller and author Matthew Miller whose book "The Two Percent Solution" comes out this week. Good afternoon to both of you. Thanks for joining us.
MARTHA ZOLLER, WDUN RADIO TALK SHOW: Thank you.
MATTHEW MILLER, AUTHOR, "THE TWO PERCENT SOLUTION": Nice to be here.
LIN: In taking a look at the situation, I mean is this an example of yet another reason why the Bush administration should really start articulating an exit strategy Martha?
ZOLLER: I don't think it's that. I think it's definitely that the terrorists are trying to say we can hit you where they think their security forces are. I think that's what they thought.
There is some dispute about who ended up in that hotel but I think that the Bush administration has articulated a plan for what they're trying to do and it's encapsuled in the $87 billion plan that we'll be talking about in a few minutes.
LIN: Matt, is it time to throw in the towel?
MILLER: No, it's not time to throw in the towel and things like today's tragedy are going to happen given that we're on the ground and there are some radicals who oppose our success in Iraq.
The real problem is that the Bush administration in choosing to do this war at a time of our own choosing clearly fundamentally mismanaged the international diplomacy and outright lied about the costs that they knew were going to be incurred in ways that make this new $87 billion that they're now seeking coming on top of further tax cuts that they passed just as we were going to war.
Remember, they fired one of their economic advisers Larry Lindsay because he spoke honestly about the $100-200 billion cost that he said honestly this was going to entail.
The administration said no, no. It will be nothing like that, passed a further round of tax cuts mostly for the best off and now has the outrageous (unintelligible) to come to the country and say this other $87 billion should be put on our kids' credit card added to these record budget deficits without revisiting massive tax cuts mostly for the well off. It's immoral.
LIN: Martha.
ZOLLER: First of all there are so many talking points in that one statement I don't know where to start. The Bush administration never said it would never be $200 billion. They said...
MILLER: They fired Larry Lindsay for saying that.
ZOLLER: Now, wait a minute. They said that they didn't - and they did pointedly not make predictions on how much it was going to cost or how long it was going to take because you don't know until you get into a war how much it's going to cost and how long it's going to take.
MILLER: That's not true. They repeatedly said Larry Lindsay was vastly overestimating $100-200 billion. There's chapter and verse on that from senior administration officials so that's false.
ZOLLER: But the bottom line is - bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you're talking about the war in Iraq, World War II, wherever it is. You don't know until you get into it what you're actually dealing with. Eighty-seven billion dollars is still less than what we spent to build back Europe and we have reaped great benefits from that.
And, you talk about the tax cuts for the most well off. The projections as far as the deficits are concerned is that in ten years those deficits will not be there anymore. And, you know what, to end the war - to end terrorism ten years of an investment is worth it to me and to most Americans.
LIN: So, Martha, how much of an investment does the Bush administration and the American taxpayers need to make when we're seeing what just today three U.S. soldiers wounded in this Islamic attack?
ZOLLER: Well, let's put it in perspective because Matt's book talks about the two percent solution and I think it's actually a terrific read from everything I've read about it.
But if you take that $87 billion and you put it in perspective like he does of the total economy, that's what he's talking about "The Two Percent Solution," it is well less than two percent of our total economy and if you even said ten times that amount of money and subtracted that from the budget you are still at a higher amount of money than we spent at the top year of the Clinton administration that was supposed to be one of our greatest years.
We've got to keep this amount of money in perspective and if we do this the right way, and we must do it the right way, then we can reap benefits in the Middle East that we will get for generations.
MILLER: Carol, can I jump in?
LIN: Sure, please. MILLER: It's not the amount of what we need to do that's the issue, although again I'm saying that the Bush administration deceived the public specifically so they could pass further tax cuts right before we went to war.
But I want to ask Martha, the question is not should we do what we need to do to finish the job in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's that the president said this is a time of sacrifice. Tell me, Martha, what sacrifice is being asked of anyone beyond the soldiers, their families, and the reservists?
ZOLLER: Well, that is one thing...
MILLER: Why should we have tax cuts for the best off people in the country at a time when we're asking for this further $87 billion and putting it on the deficit? Isn't that wrong?
ZOLLER: Because tax cuts spur the economy and increase revenues. We see that over and over and over again. But the thing that I do agree with you is that we're not sacrificing enough as a people.
I think it was wrong. One thing the Bush administration wrongly says to go out and spend more and that would make things better. We haven't sacrificed as individuals in this unless we have people involved in the war but in our area we're getting involved in a lot of projects. We're trying to help soldiers.
There are a lot of things that you can do to get involved rather than sit and just bash the Bush administration because they did not lie about this. They did not deceive us.
MILLER: They deceived us about the cost but, again, I don't understand. Why should you, I'm assuming you're someone who benefits from Bush's tax cuts, why should you get tax cuts at a time that we're going to put all this new $90 billion in cost on top of record deficits over $500 billion? Why does that make sense?
ZOLLER: Every - everyone...
MILLER: Why is it moral?
ZOLLER: Everyone who pays income taxes is getting a benefit from this, not just the wealthiest people.
MILLER: Right so that the wealthiest get the most benefits because they pay the most income tax.
LIN: All right the two of you. Somehow we have strayed into the tax question.
ZOLLER: That's right.
LIN: And gotten away from Iraq.
ZOLLER: Let's get back.
LIN: My question really is what is going to define the exit strategy? When is enough enough, Matt?
MILLER: I don't think we can say what the exit strategy is today. What we know is that the administration has not put together a plan that involves the international community, which is the only way to share the burden, finally get political stability...
ZOLLER: Matt, how can you say that?
MILLER: ...and international legitimacy as part of this effort.
ZOLLER: Matt, how can you say that when we have a number of countries that have helped us with that and I know you liberals want to say that certain countries are not as good as other countries. Europe is with us with the exception of France and Germany.
France and Germany are not Europe. There are many other countries. We have got troops that are here from other countries, no, not to the level that we have it but to say that we haven't gone to the international community that is a false statement.
That's why we waited so long because the president went through the U.N. He got 1441 but he didn't get everything else that he wanted but since then we have had the international community, maybe not the two countries you like the best but the international community has been behind us.
MILLER: I mean look I think the average viewer knows that we don't have the international community with us and it's not just France and Germany and, you know, I supported taking out Hussein so you can't - you can't attack me with that. The problem is...
ZOLLER: I didn't say you didn't support that.
MILLER: The problem is - the problem is that because the diplomacy has been so mismanaged and because we were deceived about the cost because of this mad insistence, a radical insistence on continuing tax cuts for the best off at a time of war is wrong.
ZOLLER: Look, the tax cuts have nothing to do with this, Matt.
LIN: All right, let's end on a diplomatic note. As far as the international community we'll see what happens with the U.N. resolution, which is going to be taken up, that issue at the United Nations on Tuesday. Thank you very much.
ZOLLER: Absolutely, thank you very much.
LIN: Martha, good luck with the radio program. Matt good luck with the book.
MILLER: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 12, 2003 - 18:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Anniversaries like the one in Bali can prompt tough questions about the war on terror. How far have we come and who is winning and is the U.S. spending too much on Iraq?
Joining me now are radio talk show host Martha Zoller and author Matthew Miller whose book "The Two Percent Solution" comes out this week. Good afternoon to both of you. Thanks for joining us.
MARTHA ZOLLER, WDUN RADIO TALK SHOW: Thank you.
MATTHEW MILLER, AUTHOR, "THE TWO PERCENT SOLUTION": Nice to be here.
LIN: In taking a look at the situation, I mean is this an example of yet another reason why the Bush administration should really start articulating an exit strategy Martha?
ZOLLER: I don't think it's that. I think it's definitely that the terrorists are trying to say we can hit you where they think their security forces are. I think that's what they thought.
There is some dispute about who ended up in that hotel but I think that the Bush administration has articulated a plan for what they're trying to do and it's encapsuled in the $87 billion plan that we'll be talking about in a few minutes.
LIN: Matt, is it time to throw in the towel?
MILLER: No, it's not time to throw in the towel and things like today's tragedy are going to happen given that we're on the ground and there are some radicals who oppose our success in Iraq.
The real problem is that the Bush administration in choosing to do this war at a time of our own choosing clearly fundamentally mismanaged the international diplomacy and outright lied about the costs that they knew were going to be incurred in ways that make this new $87 billion that they're now seeking coming on top of further tax cuts that they passed just as we were going to war.
Remember, they fired one of their economic advisers Larry Lindsay because he spoke honestly about the $100-200 billion cost that he said honestly this was going to entail.
The administration said no, no. It will be nothing like that, passed a further round of tax cuts mostly for the best off and now has the outrageous (unintelligible) to come to the country and say this other $87 billion should be put on our kids' credit card added to these record budget deficits without revisiting massive tax cuts mostly for the well off. It's immoral.
LIN: Martha.
ZOLLER: First of all there are so many talking points in that one statement I don't know where to start. The Bush administration never said it would never be $200 billion. They said...
MILLER: They fired Larry Lindsay for saying that.
ZOLLER: Now, wait a minute. They said that they didn't - and they did pointedly not make predictions on how much it was going to cost or how long it was going to take because you don't know until you get into a war how much it's going to cost and how long it's going to take.
MILLER: That's not true. They repeatedly said Larry Lindsay was vastly overestimating $100-200 billion. There's chapter and verse on that from senior administration officials so that's false.
ZOLLER: But the bottom line is - bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you're talking about the war in Iraq, World War II, wherever it is. You don't know until you get into it what you're actually dealing with. Eighty-seven billion dollars is still less than what we spent to build back Europe and we have reaped great benefits from that.
And, you talk about the tax cuts for the most well off. The projections as far as the deficits are concerned is that in ten years those deficits will not be there anymore. And, you know what, to end the war - to end terrorism ten years of an investment is worth it to me and to most Americans.
LIN: So, Martha, how much of an investment does the Bush administration and the American taxpayers need to make when we're seeing what just today three U.S. soldiers wounded in this Islamic attack?
ZOLLER: Well, let's put it in perspective because Matt's book talks about the two percent solution and I think it's actually a terrific read from everything I've read about it.
But if you take that $87 billion and you put it in perspective like he does of the total economy, that's what he's talking about "The Two Percent Solution," it is well less than two percent of our total economy and if you even said ten times that amount of money and subtracted that from the budget you are still at a higher amount of money than we spent at the top year of the Clinton administration that was supposed to be one of our greatest years.
We've got to keep this amount of money in perspective and if we do this the right way, and we must do it the right way, then we can reap benefits in the Middle East that we will get for generations.
MILLER: Carol, can I jump in?
LIN: Sure, please. MILLER: It's not the amount of what we need to do that's the issue, although again I'm saying that the Bush administration deceived the public specifically so they could pass further tax cuts right before we went to war.
But I want to ask Martha, the question is not should we do what we need to do to finish the job in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's that the president said this is a time of sacrifice. Tell me, Martha, what sacrifice is being asked of anyone beyond the soldiers, their families, and the reservists?
ZOLLER: Well, that is one thing...
MILLER: Why should we have tax cuts for the best off people in the country at a time when we're asking for this further $87 billion and putting it on the deficit? Isn't that wrong?
ZOLLER: Because tax cuts spur the economy and increase revenues. We see that over and over and over again. But the thing that I do agree with you is that we're not sacrificing enough as a people.
I think it was wrong. One thing the Bush administration wrongly says to go out and spend more and that would make things better. We haven't sacrificed as individuals in this unless we have people involved in the war but in our area we're getting involved in a lot of projects. We're trying to help soldiers.
There are a lot of things that you can do to get involved rather than sit and just bash the Bush administration because they did not lie about this. They did not deceive us.
MILLER: They deceived us about the cost but, again, I don't understand. Why should you, I'm assuming you're someone who benefits from Bush's tax cuts, why should you get tax cuts at a time that we're going to put all this new $90 billion in cost on top of record deficits over $500 billion? Why does that make sense?
ZOLLER: Every - everyone...
MILLER: Why is it moral?
ZOLLER: Everyone who pays income taxes is getting a benefit from this, not just the wealthiest people.
MILLER: Right so that the wealthiest get the most benefits because they pay the most income tax.
LIN: All right the two of you. Somehow we have strayed into the tax question.
ZOLLER: That's right.
LIN: And gotten away from Iraq.
ZOLLER: Let's get back.
LIN: My question really is what is going to define the exit strategy? When is enough enough, Matt?
MILLER: I don't think we can say what the exit strategy is today. What we know is that the administration has not put together a plan that involves the international community, which is the only way to share the burden, finally get political stability...
ZOLLER: Matt, how can you say that?
MILLER: ...and international legitimacy as part of this effort.
ZOLLER: Matt, how can you say that when we have a number of countries that have helped us with that and I know you liberals want to say that certain countries are not as good as other countries. Europe is with us with the exception of France and Germany.
France and Germany are not Europe. There are many other countries. We have got troops that are here from other countries, no, not to the level that we have it but to say that we haven't gone to the international community that is a false statement.
That's why we waited so long because the president went through the U.N. He got 1441 but he didn't get everything else that he wanted but since then we have had the international community, maybe not the two countries you like the best but the international community has been behind us.
MILLER: I mean look I think the average viewer knows that we don't have the international community with us and it's not just France and Germany and, you know, I supported taking out Hussein so you can't - you can't attack me with that. The problem is...
ZOLLER: I didn't say you didn't support that.
MILLER: The problem is - the problem is that because the diplomacy has been so mismanaged and because we were deceived about the cost because of this mad insistence, a radical insistence on continuing tax cuts for the best off at a time of war is wrong.
ZOLLER: Look, the tax cuts have nothing to do with this, Matt.
LIN: All right, let's end on a diplomatic note. As far as the international community we'll see what happens with the U.N. resolution, which is going to be taken up, that issue at the United Nations on Tuesday. Thank you very much.
ZOLLER: Absolutely, thank you very much.
LIN: Martha, good luck with the radio program. Matt good luck with the book.
MILLER: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
