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CNN Live Sunday
Interview With Charles Lewis
Aired February 15, 2004 - 16:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: Who is funding the major candidates and what do they expect from them in return? Let's ask Charles Lewis. He's the author of "The Buying of the President: 2004." He's also the executive director of the Center for Public Integrity and an old friend. It's good to see you.
CHARLES LEWIS, AUTHOR: Good to see you.
ARENA: I feel like we need a drum roll. Are all of candidates taking special interest money?
LEWIS: Well, they are. They have to. When you raise millions of dollars it's come from people who have lots of money and want to get something from government generally. It doesn't come from backyard bake sales and barbecues. Really, any major candidates has to raise $20 million, $30 million before the year of the election without exception. That's true in our major candidates now.
ARENA: Even Howard Dean, taking special interest money?
LEWIS: Howard dean did have associations in Vermont and special interests like the utility companies and did raise $41 million last year, but of course what makes his candidacy unusual is the Internet. How he's used the Internet. His average donor is smaller, in many cases and has changed fund-raising probably his legacy for this campaign may about what he did with the Internet.
But he has ties to lots of interestss. Even $41 million with the Internet, you'll get a lot of companies with the Internet and has powerful interests that don't have anything to do with Vermont on its face. IBM, Time Warner, Microsoft, other big interests. Lots of university employees.
When we did the "Buying of the President" book, his number 3 patron were his campaign workers, which is generally not a good sign for a candidate. So his numbers are relatively anemic. Being from Vermont, a small state. His number, nowhere near Kerry, Bush, some of the other candidates.
ARENA: So who is take the most money from special interest at this point?
LEWIS: Well no question, Bush. When you raise $131 million and almost $300 million in your career, $600,000 a day last year. It is humanly impossible not have that bumbled from various industries and interest groups. And so Bush has topped contributors, Enron, oil and gas, very close, 14 of his 25 top patrons in the last election were from oil and gas. Surprise this time is he had a lot of Wall Street banking interests.
ARENA: But is this necessarily a bad thing, to take this money?
LEWIS: Every American, probably, works somewhere, has relatives working for this company or that company labor union. I think every citizen has to decide what is a good special interest or a bad... As long as we have privately funded elections probably will for many year, the key is to know who's behind each candidate? What have they done for these interests? Are they beholden? And is it a problem for you as a citizen. The problem is we frequently don't know that. And the whole point of our book was to lay that out for folks.
ARENA: And obviously, a lot of interest in this topic. Your book made the "New York Times" best seller list. So, this is something that has really tapped a nerve this election year.
LEWIS: Well, it has. I think part of it is how open and competitive it is on the Democratic side. People want to know who are these people really? They know that the ads and Web sites are not all that helpful. There might be other information beyond that.
Who's really behind them? Who are the powers that be that they've associated with all these years that they probably don't want to talk about. That is pretty interesting, because we're going to elect them, too.
ARENA: Does this mean, though, that the average voters who send in a small donation is really just not getting anything for their money? Are they really a part of the process or not?
LEWIS: 96 percent of the American people don't contribute to any politician at the national level. A check of $2,000, a maximum contribution, comes from from 1/10 of 1 percent. Most citizen's don't send checks in.
Now obviously, like some insurgent candidacies like Howard Dean protesting the Iraq war or this or that, you going to have a lot of folks spending money for the first time in the Internet, that will change some of those numbers. Most Americans by far don't contribute. That doesn't mean you're not heard and don't have a voice.
Dean has stayed alive in primaries and caucuses, because he said I need money and it comes in on the Internet. That's new, that's really different in fundraising.
So most citizens don't know their politicians. 100 million voters stay home. Half the electorate. And I think a lot of people worry the process is a little bit friendly to certain interests, and if you don't have a voice, you won't be heard. If want to meet with a Senator, if you're a donor, it helps. That kind of thing. I think there is a little bit of cynicism and frustration out there and I think you can see that in the participation numbers.
ARENA: Right. All right. Thank you for joining us.
LEWIS: Thank you. ARENA: Charles Lewis. Author of the "Buying of the President: 2004."
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 15, 2004 - 16:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: Who is funding the major candidates and what do they expect from them in return? Let's ask Charles Lewis. He's the author of "The Buying of the President: 2004." He's also the executive director of the Center for Public Integrity and an old friend. It's good to see you.
CHARLES LEWIS, AUTHOR: Good to see you.
ARENA: I feel like we need a drum roll. Are all of candidates taking special interest money?
LEWIS: Well, they are. They have to. When you raise millions of dollars it's come from people who have lots of money and want to get something from government generally. It doesn't come from backyard bake sales and barbecues. Really, any major candidates has to raise $20 million, $30 million before the year of the election without exception. That's true in our major candidates now.
ARENA: Even Howard Dean, taking special interest money?
LEWIS: Howard dean did have associations in Vermont and special interests like the utility companies and did raise $41 million last year, but of course what makes his candidacy unusual is the Internet. How he's used the Internet. His average donor is smaller, in many cases and has changed fund-raising probably his legacy for this campaign may about what he did with the Internet.
But he has ties to lots of interestss. Even $41 million with the Internet, you'll get a lot of companies with the Internet and has powerful interests that don't have anything to do with Vermont on its face. IBM, Time Warner, Microsoft, other big interests. Lots of university employees.
When we did the "Buying of the President" book, his number 3 patron were his campaign workers, which is generally not a good sign for a candidate. So his numbers are relatively anemic. Being from Vermont, a small state. His number, nowhere near Kerry, Bush, some of the other candidates.
ARENA: So who is take the most money from special interest at this point?
LEWIS: Well no question, Bush. When you raise $131 million and almost $300 million in your career, $600,000 a day last year. It is humanly impossible not have that bumbled from various industries and interest groups. And so Bush has topped contributors, Enron, oil and gas, very close, 14 of his 25 top patrons in the last election were from oil and gas. Surprise this time is he had a lot of Wall Street banking interests.
ARENA: But is this necessarily a bad thing, to take this money?
LEWIS: Every American, probably, works somewhere, has relatives working for this company or that company labor union. I think every citizen has to decide what is a good special interest or a bad... As long as we have privately funded elections probably will for many year, the key is to know who's behind each candidate? What have they done for these interests? Are they beholden? And is it a problem for you as a citizen. The problem is we frequently don't know that. And the whole point of our book was to lay that out for folks.
ARENA: And obviously, a lot of interest in this topic. Your book made the "New York Times" best seller list. So, this is something that has really tapped a nerve this election year.
LEWIS: Well, it has. I think part of it is how open and competitive it is on the Democratic side. People want to know who are these people really? They know that the ads and Web sites are not all that helpful. There might be other information beyond that.
Who's really behind them? Who are the powers that be that they've associated with all these years that they probably don't want to talk about. That is pretty interesting, because we're going to elect them, too.
ARENA: Does this mean, though, that the average voters who send in a small donation is really just not getting anything for their money? Are they really a part of the process or not?
LEWIS: 96 percent of the American people don't contribute to any politician at the national level. A check of $2,000, a maximum contribution, comes from from 1/10 of 1 percent. Most citizen's don't send checks in.
Now obviously, like some insurgent candidacies like Howard Dean protesting the Iraq war or this or that, you going to have a lot of folks spending money for the first time in the Internet, that will change some of those numbers. Most Americans by far don't contribute. That doesn't mean you're not heard and don't have a voice.
Dean has stayed alive in primaries and caucuses, because he said I need money and it comes in on the Internet. That's new, that's really different in fundraising.
So most citizens don't know their politicians. 100 million voters stay home. Half the electorate. And I think a lot of people worry the process is a little bit friendly to certain interests, and if you don't have a voice, you won't be heard. If want to meet with a Senator, if you're a donor, it helps. That kind of thing. I think there is a little bit of cynicism and frustration out there and I think you can see that in the participation numbers.
ARENA: Right. All right. Thank you for joining us.
LEWIS: Thank you. ARENA: Charles Lewis. Author of the "Buying of the President: 2004."
END
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
