Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Sunday
Interview with Robert Pelton; New Jersey Preschool Takes Brown V. Board A Step Further
Aired May 16, 2004 - 18:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LIN: We've got more news ahead. But first, I want to check the hour's top stories.
Israeli radio reports three Palestinians were killed today near the border between Israeli and Gaza. An Israeli military official is quoted as saying he believes explosives the Palestinians were carrying went off after Israeli troops fired at them.
Hours later, witnesses report four Israeli missiles slammed into a building in downtown Gaza City. It housed the offices of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's Fatah Movement. No injuries are reported.
And Israel's military chief says hundreds of Palestinian homes in Gaza may be destroyed by bulldozers. The threat follows an Israeli Supreme Court decision clearing the way for the demolitions after a violent week of fighting. American, European and United Nations officials have all condemned the plan.
Well, some of the most dramatic and vivid accounts of the September 11 attacks are expected Tuesday. The investigating commission is scheduled to meet a few miles from where the World Trade Center towers once stood. It's expected to examine emergency response by looking at video footage and some of it might be graphic. Several families of victims who have not seen video of that day plan to watch.
The Pentagon calls a "New Yorker" article outlandish and filled with error. Writer Seymour Hersh blames the abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Graib on an alleged decision by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Hersh says, "Rumsfeld expanded a clandestine operation against al Qaeda to Iraq." And he says, "that led to photos of naked detainees being used in an effort to gain more intelligence."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEYMOUR HERSH, NEW YORKER: What happened is -- the idea was look, it wasn't completely irrational. You go -- in the Arab world again, intimidation, sexual intimidation is a real -- it's a blackmail tool. You can go and threaten anybody. Go in the community, some Sunni go into his community and show those pictures around that you've taken. And by the way, my friend said many of the most egregious photos we saw, thumb's up, they were posed for the purposes of getting embarrassing photographs. You can maybe convince some Sunnis to go back under fear of having these pictures spread to the family, go back inside the community and start telling you what's what. We needed to know what's up. Not only bought war was going bad. Don't forget, we've got an election year coming up the next year. Last fall was the turning point in this war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: A Pentagon spokesman says no responsible department of defense official approved of any program that would have allowed for such prisoner abuses.
Well, we've heard Nicholas Berg's captors and killers say they beheaded him in retaliation for the abuse of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers. CNN's Aaron Brown reports out of that shocking death has come some words of kindness from those in Iraq who knew Berg and considered him their friend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SABAH TALEB MEHDI, GYM OWNER (through interpreter): He never appeared to care about the warnings or danger. He used to walk like he was in Washington or somewhere like that he knew.
BROWN (voice-over): He connected with Sabah Taleb Mehdi, the owner of a gym in which he regularly worked out. He connected too with Hugo Infante, a journalist from Chile.
HUGO INFANTE, CHILEAN JOURNALIST: I think all the guests here, the people who knew him here, it was really, they were really friendly with him because he never spoke a bad word about Iraq, you know. He always say good things about Iraq. He loved these people. He loved the town.
BROWN: And, of course, he connected with fellow American Robert Andrew Duke, another businessman on his own in Iraq.
ANDREW ROBERT DUKE, INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OPERATOR IN IRAQ: In the evening we sat in my room. We talked about, you know, what a 26- year-old guy was going to do with the rest of his life, how he was in good shape, how he was looking forward to having a relationship.
BROWN: To his Chilean friend, Nick Berg made a good adventure yarn of what happened to him. He told the story this way.
INFANTE: Oh, you want to hear a funny story about me? I was in prison, man. Why? Because the Iraqi police catch me one night in Mosul and they saw my passport. My passport, in my passport I have my Jewish last name.
BROWN: What happened after that Nick Berg would not live to tell but the world has come to know anyway as has his friend Sabah Mehdi.
MEHDI (through interpreter): I saw a picture of five men standing with heads covered in black and making a declaration and I saw a man sitting on the ground with his hands tied. I dropped the cup I was holding and started shouting this is Nick. This is Nick. I began to cry. I was very saddened.
BROWN: Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: You may not know the name of our next guest, but chances are you're familiar with his work. Robert Pelton is the man who shot the famous pictures in Afghanistan of Taliban American John Walker Lindh.
Now Pelton, like other Americans, has gone to Iraq in search of adventure and money and he's back and is about to head back. Robert, it is good to see you and good to see you alive.
I've got to ask you, you were kidnapped in Colombia last year and now you're going going back into a different war zone. What is the appeal of traveling to a war zone?
ROBERT PELTON, JOURNALIST: Well, in this case, I want to spend time with the security contractors on the ground and to see what life is like on sort of the cutting edge of what I call the wild west. I also spent three months in the region during the war so it will be a comparative trip for me.
LIN: What kind of precautions are you taking?
PELTON: I'll be traveling either with the good guys or the bad guys. I won't be in that sort of gray middle area of being a contractor working, you know, day to day. I'll have my wits about me, hopefully.
LIN: Who are good the guys and the bad guys these days over there.
PELTON: Well, the bad guys would be the Fedayeen, the variouis criminal elements and the jihadis. And the good guys would be the U.S. government, the coalition partners and also the freelance security people.
LIN: Why wouldn't the Fedayeen kill you?
PELTON: Typically, I make arrangements with people beforehand and it's just the way I do business.
LIN: And do they know of you? Are you famous in those circles?
PELTON: I don't think I want to be famous. I was with the Syrian Fedayeen during the war and also with Arab groups so I have contacts there.
LIN: You have smoe contacts.
Nicholas berg, he was on his own in Iraq. In fact, he traveled back and forth between the United States and Iraq. How many other Nicholas Bergs are there out there, independent contractors who are going out there, trying to make a buck?
PELTON: There's no hard number. I asked the CPA, the coalition provisional authority, for the number. They don't know how many Americans are over there. But even in the very beginning part of the war, there were people showing up within days trying to get in on the ground floor of the billions of dollars that are flowing there. They could be people setting up newspapers, they could be people looking for technical work as Nick was.
I would say there's at least 15 to 20 thousand security professionals over there working under contract. I'd say there it would woo be two to three times that many...
LIN: That's more than the number of British troops on the ground, right?
PELTON: That's correct. We have a huge presence there in the civilian capacity.
LIN: That's amazing. Nicholas Berg, should he have -- is there a woulda, shoulda, coulda you see in his situation? Could his situation have been prevented?
PELTON: The thing from my read of the situation and analysis, I think he was ratted out by one of the Iraqi police that captured him. He was interrogated three times by the FBI. He had the appearances to some people of being an Israeli spy or a person of Jewish origin. I think the Iraqis, rather ratted him out to the Fedayeen and to Zarqawi. I think that's how he got picked up.
LIN: You know, his family is holding the U.S. government responsible.
PELTON: Well, unfortunately, the American government wants people like Nick Berg over there to help rebuild the country. All it takes is waving your passport at the border and you're in. Unfortunately, there aren't adequate security measures on the ground for people like Nick.
LIN: I mean, do you see a situation where, when he was in the custody of the FBI, was there something that federal agents could have done to protect him?
PELTON: I think they acted appropriately. I think they offered him a ride out. They offered him money. Whatever it took to get him out of there. I think Nick made the decision to continue his work since he was comfortable in the region. I think he didn't know what dark forces were out there waiting for him.
LIN: So what do you make of his family's contentions that the U.S. government should do something to make reparations or at least admit responsibility?
PELTON: I can't speak for the family. I know they're going through some horrible moments right now and there's been global pressure on their grief. But all I can say is I hope our government is looking at the encouragement they're giving to contractors and looking very hard at what actually is safe and isn't safe inside Iraq.
LIN: All right. So what -- how do you maneuver? What is it like to be out there, as you call them, with the gad bad guys? Do you know for certain that you are going to come out alive?
PELTON: I don't think anybody does. I negotiated with the Bedouins (ph). The Bedoes (ph) probably the backbone of the reason, what they call a Sunni Triangle and they have a code amongst themselves. Once I am with those people, I'm typically protected. But I also had a red Bentley driving through the war zone.
LIN: Did you say a red bentley?
PELTON: I had one of Uday's cars a red Bentley with gold trim and I was never stopped at a checkpoint by any American soldiers or by any Iraqi Fedayeen.
LIN: Talk about hiding in plain sight.
PELTON: Well, it's all I can say is that it's a very strange country.
LIN: Very strange country. And you certainly know how to travel the highways there. Author of "World's Most Dangerous Places." Robert, we'd like to talk to you when you get back, safe and sound. Thanks so much, Robert Pelton.
Well tonight, at 10:00 Eastern, you're going to be hearing from a spokesman for the family of Nicholas Berg. I'm going to be talking to him about how the family is doing and, also, hopefully they'll give us the latest on the family's problems with the way the government has handled the whole situation. Tonight on our Primetime show, 10:00.
Well, they are the new faces born from the Brown versus the Board of Education case. Still to come, how the historic ruling is helping the new Browns.
And could there be a repeat in history? Presidents with low approval ratings sometimes win a return trip to the White House. We'll tell you why Democrats may be worried.
Plus, running for dear life. The tale of this bovine when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: On tomorrow's the 50th anniversary of Brown Versus Board of Education, people across America will celebrate and reflect on the Supreme Court ruling that changed separate, but equal to separate and illegal. Today, it isn't just African-Americans going through school doors opened by Brown. CNN's Maria Hinojosa reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're bouncing around like grasshoppers on this sunny spring morning at the Noah's Ark Preschool, where every kind of child gets a chance to learn. Meet the modern day recipients of America's landmark desegregation movement who are almost as likely to be Latino or Korean as they are black or white.
GWEN GRANT, NEW BRUNSWICK N.J. SCHOOLS: In a way, it's very exciting our children who speak English are now learning Spanish. We were in a classroom earlier, where they're singing in English and Spanish. It's a very natural part of what the children do in New Brunswick, because we build it into our world languages program. Brown is ever-evolving.
HINOJOSA: Brown is Brown Versus the Board of Education, the legal reason schools try to racially integrate their kids. In New Brunswick, New Jersey, most schools are no longer black and white. They're nearly 70 percent Latino, making equality elusive.
GARRIELLA MORRIS, PRSE. PRUDENTIAL FOUNDATION: The immigrant populations have come in, where African-Americans have lived historically, and have been receiving disproportionately bad educational service delivery, they are suffering from these same conditions. And that is exacerbated, as you know, by language barriers.
HINOJOSA: Educational law center successfully sued New Jersey where schools are among the nation's most segregated to try to force them to make Brown's promises concrete.
STEVEN BLOCK, EDUCATIONAL LAW CENTER: The court requires the state to fund -- to start funding these urban schools at parity with the per pupil amount provided on average in the 120 wealthiest communities of the state. Next year that will be about $11,300.
HINOJOSA: The Prudential Foundation, a major funder of the center followed up with programs geared toward making that money is well spent. For example, on language skills, especially for young children and on parenting skills.
MORRIS: Without intervention, we'll continue to lose generations of children from their own promise and from our own -- the benefit of what they can contribute. It will happen for different reasons. You know, this is not 1954. The country is a lot more diverse and these children may fail, I think, principally because of language.
HINOJOSA: That's why at Noah's Ark, intervention has already begun. Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: The 2004 presidential campaign heads to sin city. Democrat John Kerry is in Las Vegas meeting with teamsters at their annual convention. Later, the Massachusetts Senator is expected to attend a fundraiser before heading to Topeka, Kansas. The president's wife, Laura Bush is expected to head to Las Vegas for a fundraiser on Tuesday.
New polls show, though, President Bush's job approval rating is sinking. Does that signal danger for his reelection campaign? Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, checks out the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: If President Bush is in so much trouble, shouldn't John Kerry have a big lead over him?
JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Listen, men, I don't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) pools, but we're in good shape.
SCHNEIDER: Is he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No president, incumbent president who has been as low as the president is today has won reelection.
SCHNEIDER: Let's look at the approval ratings for three incumbent presidents who went on to win reelection. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. In May of their election year, Nixon's job approval was 62 percent, Reagan's 54 percent and Clinton's 55 percent.
Now look at the approval ratings of those who didn't win a second term, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter and the first President Bush. All below 50 in May of election year. Where is President Bush right now? 46 percent. That doesn't look good for him.
But approval ratings aren't everything. So what if President Bush has problems, Republicans say. We're going to turn the election into a referendum on John Kerry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The comparisons between the two candidates are a going to matter a great deal.
SCHNEIDER: At this point in 1972, 1984 and 1996, when incumbents got reelected, presidents had double digit leads over their challengers, Nixon was almost 20 points ahead of George McGovern, Reagan was 10 points ahead of Walter Mondale. Clinton was leading Bob Dole by 15.
Now, look at years when incumbents lost. In May, 1976, Ford was trailing carter by 13 points. But in May, 1980, Carter was ahead of Reagan. And in May, 1992, Bush was leading Clinton. In fact, so was Ross Perot.
So even doomed incumbents were in the lead at this point, except in 1976. But Ford, of course, had not been elected in the first place. So what about this year?
The latest poll shows Kerry five points ahead of Bush. The challenger is leading, that's rare this early. It's also a good sign for Kerry. Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Still ahead on CNN LIVE SUNDAY, he may not know how to obey traffic signs, but he knows how to make the dash for dear life.
Plus, it's worth millions of dollars and it's gone. Why you shouldn't leave your most prized possessions on your front porch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Police in Los Angeles have a real whodunit on their hands. At the heart of the mystery, who made off with a cello worth more than $3 million? Our Miguel Marquez has more on this musical caper.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is 30 1/2 inches tall and 18 and 19/32 inches wide. He's 320 years old and valued at $3.5 million. His name, General Kyd, missing more than three weeks.
DON HRYCYK, LOS ANGELES POLICE: There have been sightings from Denver, San Diego, airports shipping companies. A lot of tips.
MARQUEZ: Detective Don Hrycyk runs L.A.P.D.'s art theft detail. He says since General Kyd was stolen, most tips have come from musicians, some from psychics. Their common quest? An instrument built in Antonio Stratavarius Cromona, Italy workshop in 1684, long before the United States was an idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Stradivarius has been to places I wish I had traveled to in my lifetime.
MARQUEZ: The L.A. Philharmonic has owned the instrument for 30 years.
DEBORAH BORDA, PRESIDENT L.A. PHILHARMONIC: General Kyd, who is a British general traveling in Italy found the instrument, fell in love with its very dark sound. It had a very legendary, chocolatey sound.
MARQUEZ: For the last two year, the General was played and cared for by Peter Stump, the orchestra's principal cellist. He accidentally left it sitting on his front porch overnight. A neighbor's security cam caught this video of a man police say is a 15 to 26-year-old white male riding off with the cello with its distinctive silver case. His bicycle can be heard crashing into trash cans as he made his early Sunday morning escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll give you a copy of that. It has to do with the $3.5 million Stradivarius cello that was stolen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I read about that!
MARQUEZ: Detective Hrycyk believes the key to recovering the cello lies in the neighborhood where it was taken. He also believes whoever took it had no idea what they stole.
HRYCYK: At this point, they're probably trying to figure out, what am I going to do with this?
MARQUEZ (on camera): If police can't find general kyd or no one leaving them to it. There's one last hope. The L.A. Philharmonic has designated this space, the artist's entrance to the concert hall as a place where the general can be dropped off, no questions asked. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE0
LIN: Well, Smarty Jones has just arrived back home in Philadelphia after winning the Preakness, the second leg of the Triple Crown. Now, the stage is set for a dramatic Triple Crown attempt at the Belmont Stakes in three weeks. If he blazes that one too, the undefeated colt would claim a $5 million bonus and become racing's top earning horse.
A steer, yes, a steer facing a certain dreaded fate, instead, is saved by a good samaritan who doesn't eat red meat. The mooving story now from Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If this steer hadn't fled here, it would probably be frying rather than lying in the hot sun. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're calling him Liberty Freedom.
MOOS (on camera): Liberty Freedom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
MOOS (voice-over): Liberty Freedom was about to become fresh meat at this Newark, New Jersey slaughter house when he somehow managed to escape. He made a left and went loping down Lockwood, running the stop sign.
(on camera): Ignoring the one-way sign, the steer hung a right, traveling against traffic.
(voice-over): And then he made the life-saving turn into Triangle Towing and Repair. Probably mistook it for a barn. Owner Judy Borselino (ph) was on the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said Bob -- I was talking to Bob -- I said, I've got to go, there's a steer coming in here, bye.
MOOS (on camera): He just came over here and just plopped himself down?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
MOOS (voice-over): They closed the gate. This bovine had gotten anything but the bum steer.
(on camera): When is the last time you had a hamburger?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God, I can't even remember. I only eat veggie burgers.
MOOS (voice-over): So when three guys from the slaughter house came chasing Liberty Freedom...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said no, you can't have him.
MOOS: Besides, Judy says the slaughter house owes her $4,000 for repairs she made to its trucks.
(on camera): So you built this kind of pen for him over here.
(voice-over): The slaughter house folks wouldn't talk to us. Judy's hoping to send Liberty Freedom to the farm sanctuary in upstate New York, home to pigs, rabbits and even two other cows who escaped from slaughter houses.
As getaways go, this one was both rare, and well done.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, Newark, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Yes, horses, cows, but the show is not going to the dogs.
That's all we have time for this hour. Coming up at 7:00 Eastern on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," profiles of two heroes facing daunting odds. Christopher Reeve and Lance Armstrong.
At 8:00, 50 years after Brown versus the Board of Education, "CNN PRESENTS" looks at the black and white achievement gap.
At the 9:00 Eastern, Maria Shriver discusses her husband, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and her father's battle with Alzheimer's Disease.
And make sure to join me again at 10:00 Eastern time for our primetime show, CNN SUNDAY NIGHT. Among our guests, U2's Bono. Earlier today, I spoke with him about you in the album, Africa, and the war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONO: You know, the war on terror is bound up in the war against poverty. I didn't say that, Secretary of State Colin Powell said that. And when a military man starts saying that you can't win this war by military means alone, we should listen to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: The complete interview coming up tonight at 10:00. The hour's headlines when we come back. And then "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 16, 2004 - 18:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LIN: We've got more news ahead. But first, I want to check the hour's top stories.
Israeli radio reports three Palestinians were killed today near the border between Israeli and Gaza. An Israeli military official is quoted as saying he believes explosives the Palestinians were carrying went off after Israeli troops fired at them.
Hours later, witnesses report four Israeli missiles slammed into a building in downtown Gaza City. It housed the offices of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's Fatah Movement. No injuries are reported.
And Israel's military chief says hundreds of Palestinian homes in Gaza may be destroyed by bulldozers. The threat follows an Israeli Supreme Court decision clearing the way for the demolitions after a violent week of fighting. American, European and United Nations officials have all condemned the plan.
Well, some of the most dramatic and vivid accounts of the September 11 attacks are expected Tuesday. The investigating commission is scheduled to meet a few miles from where the World Trade Center towers once stood. It's expected to examine emergency response by looking at video footage and some of it might be graphic. Several families of victims who have not seen video of that day plan to watch.
The Pentagon calls a "New Yorker" article outlandish and filled with error. Writer Seymour Hersh blames the abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Graib on an alleged decision by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Hersh says, "Rumsfeld expanded a clandestine operation against al Qaeda to Iraq." And he says, "that led to photos of naked detainees being used in an effort to gain more intelligence."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEYMOUR HERSH, NEW YORKER: What happened is -- the idea was look, it wasn't completely irrational. You go -- in the Arab world again, intimidation, sexual intimidation is a real -- it's a blackmail tool. You can go and threaten anybody. Go in the community, some Sunni go into his community and show those pictures around that you've taken. And by the way, my friend said many of the most egregious photos we saw, thumb's up, they were posed for the purposes of getting embarrassing photographs. You can maybe convince some Sunnis to go back under fear of having these pictures spread to the family, go back inside the community and start telling you what's what. We needed to know what's up. Not only bought war was going bad. Don't forget, we've got an election year coming up the next year. Last fall was the turning point in this war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: A Pentagon spokesman says no responsible department of defense official approved of any program that would have allowed for such prisoner abuses.
Well, we've heard Nicholas Berg's captors and killers say they beheaded him in retaliation for the abuse of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers. CNN's Aaron Brown reports out of that shocking death has come some words of kindness from those in Iraq who knew Berg and considered him their friend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SABAH TALEB MEHDI, GYM OWNER (through interpreter): He never appeared to care about the warnings or danger. He used to walk like he was in Washington or somewhere like that he knew.
BROWN (voice-over): He connected with Sabah Taleb Mehdi, the owner of a gym in which he regularly worked out. He connected too with Hugo Infante, a journalist from Chile.
HUGO INFANTE, CHILEAN JOURNALIST: I think all the guests here, the people who knew him here, it was really, they were really friendly with him because he never spoke a bad word about Iraq, you know. He always say good things about Iraq. He loved these people. He loved the town.
BROWN: And, of course, he connected with fellow American Robert Andrew Duke, another businessman on his own in Iraq.
ANDREW ROBERT DUKE, INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OPERATOR IN IRAQ: In the evening we sat in my room. We talked about, you know, what a 26- year-old guy was going to do with the rest of his life, how he was in good shape, how he was looking forward to having a relationship.
BROWN: To his Chilean friend, Nick Berg made a good adventure yarn of what happened to him. He told the story this way.
INFANTE: Oh, you want to hear a funny story about me? I was in prison, man. Why? Because the Iraqi police catch me one night in Mosul and they saw my passport. My passport, in my passport I have my Jewish last name.
BROWN: What happened after that Nick Berg would not live to tell but the world has come to know anyway as has his friend Sabah Mehdi.
MEHDI (through interpreter): I saw a picture of five men standing with heads covered in black and making a declaration and I saw a man sitting on the ground with his hands tied. I dropped the cup I was holding and started shouting this is Nick. This is Nick. I began to cry. I was very saddened.
BROWN: Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: You may not know the name of our next guest, but chances are you're familiar with his work. Robert Pelton is the man who shot the famous pictures in Afghanistan of Taliban American John Walker Lindh.
Now Pelton, like other Americans, has gone to Iraq in search of adventure and money and he's back and is about to head back. Robert, it is good to see you and good to see you alive.
I've got to ask you, you were kidnapped in Colombia last year and now you're going going back into a different war zone. What is the appeal of traveling to a war zone?
ROBERT PELTON, JOURNALIST: Well, in this case, I want to spend time with the security contractors on the ground and to see what life is like on sort of the cutting edge of what I call the wild west. I also spent three months in the region during the war so it will be a comparative trip for me.
LIN: What kind of precautions are you taking?
PELTON: I'll be traveling either with the good guys or the bad guys. I won't be in that sort of gray middle area of being a contractor working, you know, day to day. I'll have my wits about me, hopefully.
LIN: Who are good the guys and the bad guys these days over there.
PELTON: Well, the bad guys would be the Fedayeen, the variouis criminal elements and the jihadis. And the good guys would be the U.S. government, the coalition partners and also the freelance security people.
LIN: Why wouldn't the Fedayeen kill you?
PELTON: Typically, I make arrangements with people beforehand and it's just the way I do business.
LIN: And do they know of you? Are you famous in those circles?
PELTON: I don't think I want to be famous. I was with the Syrian Fedayeen during the war and also with Arab groups so I have contacts there.
LIN: You have smoe contacts.
Nicholas berg, he was on his own in Iraq. In fact, he traveled back and forth between the United States and Iraq. How many other Nicholas Bergs are there out there, independent contractors who are going out there, trying to make a buck?
PELTON: There's no hard number. I asked the CPA, the coalition provisional authority, for the number. They don't know how many Americans are over there. But even in the very beginning part of the war, there were people showing up within days trying to get in on the ground floor of the billions of dollars that are flowing there. They could be people setting up newspapers, they could be people looking for technical work as Nick was.
I would say there's at least 15 to 20 thousand security professionals over there working under contract. I'd say there it would woo be two to three times that many...
LIN: That's more than the number of British troops on the ground, right?
PELTON: That's correct. We have a huge presence there in the civilian capacity.
LIN: That's amazing. Nicholas Berg, should he have -- is there a woulda, shoulda, coulda you see in his situation? Could his situation have been prevented?
PELTON: The thing from my read of the situation and analysis, I think he was ratted out by one of the Iraqi police that captured him. He was interrogated three times by the FBI. He had the appearances to some people of being an Israeli spy or a person of Jewish origin. I think the Iraqis, rather ratted him out to the Fedayeen and to Zarqawi. I think that's how he got picked up.
LIN: You know, his family is holding the U.S. government responsible.
PELTON: Well, unfortunately, the American government wants people like Nick Berg over there to help rebuild the country. All it takes is waving your passport at the border and you're in. Unfortunately, there aren't adequate security measures on the ground for people like Nick.
LIN: I mean, do you see a situation where, when he was in the custody of the FBI, was there something that federal agents could have done to protect him?
PELTON: I think they acted appropriately. I think they offered him a ride out. They offered him money. Whatever it took to get him out of there. I think Nick made the decision to continue his work since he was comfortable in the region. I think he didn't know what dark forces were out there waiting for him.
LIN: So what do you make of his family's contentions that the U.S. government should do something to make reparations or at least admit responsibility?
PELTON: I can't speak for the family. I know they're going through some horrible moments right now and there's been global pressure on their grief. But all I can say is I hope our government is looking at the encouragement they're giving to contractors and looking very hard at what actually is safe and isn't safe inside Iraq.
LIN: All right. So what -- how do you maneuver? What is it like to be out there, as you call them, with the gad bad guys? Do you know for certain that you are going to come out alive?
PELTON: I don't think anybody does. I negotiated with the Bedouins (ph). The Bedoes (ph) probably the backbone of the reason, what they call a Sunni Triangle and they have a code amongst themselves. Once I am with those people, I'm typically protected. But I also had a red Bentley driving through the war zone.
LIN: Did you say a red bentley?
PELTON: I had one of Uday's cars a red Bentley with gold trim and I was never stopped at a checkpoint by any American soldiers or by any Iraqi Fedayeen.
LIN: Talk about hiding in plain sight.
PELTON: Well, it's all I can say is that it's a very strange country.
LIN: Very strange country. And you certainly know how to travel the highways there. Author of "World's Most Dangerous Places." Robert, we'd like to talk to you when you get back, safe and sound. Thanks so much, Robert Pelton.
Well tonight, at 10:00 Eastern, you're going to be hearing from a spokesman for the family of Nicholas Berg. I'm going to be talking to him about how the family is doing and, also, hopefully they'll give us the latest on the family's problems with the way the government has handled the whole situation. Tonight on our Primetime show, 10:00.
Well, they are the new faces born from the Brown versus the Board of Education case. Still to come, how the historic ruling is helping the new Browns.
And could there be a repeat in history? Presidents with low approval ratings sometimes win a return trip to the White House. We'll tell you why Democrats may be worried.
Plus, running for dear life. The tale of this bovine when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: On tomorrow's the 50th anniversary of Brown Versus Board of Education, people across America will celebrate and reflect on the Supreme Court ruling that changed separate, but equal to separate and illegal. Today, it isn't just African-Americans going through school doors opened by Brown. CNN's Maria Hinojosa reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're bouncing around like grasshoppers on this sunny spring morning at the Noah's Ark Preschool, where every kind of child gets a chance to learn. Meet the modern day recipients of America's landmark desegregation movement who are almost as likely to be Latino or Korean as they are black or white.
GWEN GRANT, NEW BRUNSWICK N.J. SCHOOLS: In a way, it's very exciting our children who speak English are now learning Spanish. We were in a classroom earlier, where they're singing in English and Spanish. It's a very natural part of what the children do in New Brunswick, because we build it into our world languages program. Brown is ever-evolving.
HINOJOSA: Brown is Brown Versus the Board of Education, the legal reason schools try to racially integrate their kids. In New Brunswick, New Jersey, most schools are no longer black and white. They're nearly 70 percent Latino, making equality elusive.
GARRIELLA MORRIS, PRSE. PRUDENTIAL FOUNDATION: The immigrant populations have come in, where African-Americans have lived historically, and have been receiving disproportionately bad educational service delivery, they are suffering from these same conditions. And that is exacerbated, as you know, by language barriers.
HINOJOSA: Educational law center successfully sued New Jersey where schools are among the nation's most segregated to try to force them to make Brown's promises concrete.
STEVEN BLOCK, EDUCATIONAL LAW CENTER: The court requires the state to fund -- to start funding these urban schools at parity with the per pupil amount provided on average in the 120 wealthiest communities of the state. Next year that will be about $11,300.
HINOJOSA: The Prudential Foundation, a major funder of the center followed up with programs geared toward making that money is well spent. For example, on language skills, especially for young children and on parenting skills.
MORRIS: Without intervention, we'll continue to lose generations of children from their own promise and from our own -- the benefit of what they can contribute. It will happen for different reasons. You know, this is not 1954. The country is a lot more diverse and these children may fail, I think, principally because of language.
HINOJOSA: That's why at Noah's Ark, intervention has already begun. Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: The 2004 presidential campaign heads to sin city. Democrat John Kerry is in Las Vegas meeting with teamsters at their annual convention. Later, the Massachusetts Senator is expected to attend a fundraiser before heading to Topeka, Kansas. The president's wife, Laura Bush is expected to head to Las Vegas for a fundraiser on Tuesday.
New polls show, though, President Bush's job approval rating is sinking. Does that signal danger for his reelection campaign? Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, checks out the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: If President Bush is in so much trouble, shouldn't John Kerry have a big lead over him?
JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Listen, men, I don't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) pools, but we're in good shape.
SCHNEIDER: Is he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No president, incumbent president who has been as low as the president is today has won reelection.
SCHNEIDER: Let's look at the approval ratings for three incumbent presidents who went on to win reelection. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. In May of their election year, Nixon's job approval was 62 percent, Reagan's 54 percent and Clinton's 55 percent.
Now look at the approval ratings of those who didn't win a second term, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter and the first President Bush. All below 50 in May of election year. Where is President Bush right now? 46 percent. That doesn't look good for him.
But approval ratings aren't everything. So what if President Bush has problems, Republicans say. We're going to turn the election into a referendum on John Kerry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The comparisons between the two candidates are a going to matter a great deal.
SCHNEIDER: At this point in 1972, 1984 and 1996, when incumbents got reelected, presidents had double digit leads over their challengers, Nixon was almost 20 points ahead of George McGovern, Reagan was 10 points ahead of Walter Mondale. Clinton was leading Bob Dole by 15.
Now, look at years when incumbents lost. In May, 1976, Ford was trailing carter by 13 points. But in May, 1980, Carter was ahead of Reagan. And in May, 1992, Bush was leading Clinton. In fact, so was Ross Perot.
So even doomed incumbents were in the lead at this point, except in 1976. But Ford, of course, had not been elected in the first place. So what about this year?
The latest poll shows Kerry five points ahead of Bush. The challenger is leading, that's rare this early. It's also a good sign for Kerry. Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Still ahead on CNN LIVE SUNDAY, he may not know how to obey traffic signs, but he knows how to make the dash for dear life.
Plus, it's worth millions of dollars and it's gone. Why you shouldn't leave your most prized possessions on your front porch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Police in Los Angeles have a real whodunit on their hands. At the heart of the mystery, who made off with a cello worth more than $3 million? Our Miguel Marquez has more on this musical caper.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is 30 1/2 inches tall and 18 and 19/32 inches wide. He's 320 years old and valued at $3.5 million. His name, General Kyd, missing more than three weeks.
DON HRYCYK, LOS ANGELES POLICE: There have been sightings from Denver, San Diego, airports shipping companies. A lot of tips.
MARQUEZ: Detective Don Hrycyk runs L.A.P.D.'s art theft detail. He says since General Kyd was stolen, most tips have come from musicians, some from psychics. Their common quest? An instrument built in Antonio Stratavarius Cromona, Italy workshop in 1684, long before the United States was an idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Stradivarius has been to places I wish I had traveled to in my lifetime.
MARQUEZ: The L.A. Philharmonic has owned the instrument for 30 years.
DEBORAH BORDA, PRESIDENT L.A. PHILHARMONIC: General Kyd, who is a British general traveling in Italy found the instrument, fell in love with its very dark sound. It had a very legendary, chocolatey sound.
MARQUEZ: For the last two year, the General was played and cared for by Peter Stump, the orchestra's principal cellist. He accidentally left it sitting on his front porch overnight. A neighbor's security cam caught this video of a man police say is a 15 to 26-year-old white male riding off with the cello with its distinctive silver case. His bicycle can be heard crashing into trash cans as he made his early Sunday morning escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll give you a copy of that. It has to do with the $3.5 million Stradivarius cello that was stolen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I read about that!
MARQUEZ: Detective Hrycyk believes the key to recovering the cello lies in the neighborhood where it was taken. He also believes whoever took it had no idea what they stole.
HRYCYK: At this point, they're probably trying to figure out, what am I going to do with this?
MARQUEZ (on camera): If police can't find general kyd or no one leaving them to it. There's one last hope. The L.A. Philharmonic has designated this space, the artist's entrance to the concert hall as a place where the general can be dropped off, no questions asked. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE0
LIN: Well, Smarty Jones has just arrived back home in Philadelphia after winning the Preakness, the second leg of the Triple Crown. Now, the stage is set for a dramatic Triple Crown attempt at the Belmont Stakes in three weeks. If he blazes that one too, the undefeated colt would claim a $5 million bonus and become racing's top earning horse.
A steer, yes, a steer facing a certain dreaded fate, instead, is saved by a good samaritan who doesn't eat red meat. The mooving story now from Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If this steer hadn't fled here, it would probably be frying rather than lying in the hot sun. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're calling him Liberty Freedom.
MOOS (on camera): Liberty Freedom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
MOOS (voice-over): Liberty Freedom was about to become fresh meat at this Newark, New Jersey slaughter house when he somehow managed to escape. He made a left and went loping down Lockwood, running the stop sign.
(on camera): Ignoring the one-way sign, the steer hung a right, traveling against traffic.
(voice-over): And then he made the life-saving turn into Triangle Towing and Repair. Probably mistook it for a barn. Owner Judy Borselino (ph) was on the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said Bob -- I was talking to Bob -- I said, I've got to go, there's a steer coming in here, bye.
MOOS (on camera): He just came over here and just plopped himself down?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
MOOS (voice-over): They closed the gate. This bovine had gotten anything but the bum steer.
(on camera): When is the last time you had a hamburger?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God, I can't even remember. I only eat veggie burgers.
MOOS (voice-over): So when three guys from the slaughter house came chasing Liberty Freedom...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said no, you can't have him.
MOOS: Besides, Judy says the slaughter house owes her $4,000 for repairs she made to its trucks.
(on camera): So you built this kind of pen for him over here.
(voice-over): The slaughter house folks wouldn't talk to us. Judy's hoping to send Liberty Freedom to the farm sanctuary in upstate New York, home to pigs, rabbits and even two other cows who escaped from slaughter houses.
As getaways go, this one was both rare, and well done.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, Newark, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Yes, horses, cows, but the show is not going to the dogs.
That's all we have time for this hour. Coming up at 7:00 Eastern on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," profiles of two heroes facing daunting odds. Christopher Reeve and Lance Armstrong.
At 8:00, 50 years after Brown versus the Board of Education, "CNN PRESENTS" looks at the black and white achievement gap.
At the 9:00 Eastern, Maria Shriver discusses her husband, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and her father's battle with Alzheimer's Disease.
And make sure to join me again at 10:00 Eastern time for our primetime show, CNN SUNDAY NIGHT. Among our guests, U2's Bono. Earlier today, I spoke with him about you in the album, Africa, and the war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONO: You know, the war on terror is bound up in the war against poverty. I didn't say that, Secretary of State Colin Powell said that. And when a military man starts saying that you can't win this war by military means alone, we should listen to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: The complete interview coming up tonight at 10:00. The hour's headlines when we come back. And then "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
