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CNN Live Sunday

Bush Makes Statement About Rehnquist's Death

Aired September 04, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We will give you updates on rescue and recovery efforts from the areas hit hard by Hurricane Katrina this hour.
But first, Americans are waking up to the news that Chief Justice William Rehnquist has died. Rehnquist, who was 80 years old, had been undergoing treatment for thyroid cancer. Flags are at half-staff at the White House this morning. Rehnquist served on the high court for 33 years.

We are waiting for a statement from President Bush on the death of Chief Justice Rehnquist. He's expected to speak anytime now. CNN will have the president's comments for you live.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And also this hour, we are waiting to hear from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and FEMA officials out of Louisiana. There's a live look. They are slated to give an update on the hurricane relief and recovery efforts.

But now, let's go to CNN's Wolf Blitzer in Washington as we wait for the president to speak.

Good morning, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Betty.

Good morning, Tony.

The president will be in the Roosevelt Room in the West Wing of the White House for his first public statement. He issued a written statement in the aftermath of the death last night of the chief justice of the United States.

Now he will go before the cameras and express the deep sorrow, the deep pain that he and so many others are going through right now as a result of the death of William Rehnquist. Thyroid cancer, he had been battling it for the past several months. And suddenly, last night, he simply passed away, 80 years old.

This creates yet another opportunity for the president to make one of most important decisions any president can make, to nominate someone to be a justice of the Supreme Court, in this particular case, the chief justice of the United States.

John Roberts, his confirmation hearings to be an associate justice had been scheduled to begin on Tuesday. There's now some speculation that perhaps that could be delayed in the aftermath of the death of William Rehnquist.

But there's no doubt there will be a great deal at stake as the president now goes forward with his second nominee on this particular front. As I said, no decision is as important potentially as this one.

Here's the president.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... that Chief Justice William Rehnquist passed away last night.

Laura and I send our respect and deepest sympathy to this good man's children, Jim, Janet and Nancy. We send our respect to all the members of the Rehnquist family.

William H. Rehnquist was born and raised in Wisconsin. He was the grandson of Swedish immigrants. Like so many of his generation, he served in the Army during World War II. He went on to college with the help of the G.I. Bill.

He studied law at Stanford university. He graduated first in his class, that included his future colleague Sandra Day O'Connor.

Judge Rehnquist and his late wife, Nan, raised their family in Phoenix, where he built a career as one of Arizona's leading attorneys. He went on to even greater distinction in public service as an assistant U.S. attorney general, associate justice of the Supreme Court, and, for the past 19 years, chief justice of the United States.

He was extremely well-respected for his powerful intellect. He was respected for his deep commitment to the rule of law and his profound devotion to duty.

He provided superb leadership for the federal court system, improving the delivery of justice for the American people, and earning the admiration of his colleagues throughout the judiciary.

Even during a period of illness, Chief Justice Rehnquist stayed on the job to complete the work of his final Supreme Court term. I was honored, and I was deeply touched, when he came to the Capitol for the swearing-in last January.

He was a man of character and dedication. His departure represents a great loss for the court and for our country.

There are now two vacancies on the Supreme Court. And it will serve the best interests of the nation to fill those vacancies promptly. I will choose, in a timely manner, a highly qualified nominee to succeed Chief Justice Rehnquist.

As we look to the future of the Supreme Court, citizens of this nation can also look with pride and appreciation on the career of our late chief justice.

More than a half a century has passed since William H. Rehnquist first came to the Supreme Court as a young law clerk. All of his years, William Rehnquist revered the constitution and laws of the United States. He led the judicial branch of government with tremendous wisdom and skill.

He honored America with the lifetime of service, and America will honor his memory.

May God bless the Rehnquist family.

Thank you all very much.

BLITZER: The president making a brief statement in honor of William Rehnquist, who passed away, expressing deep condolences to the family, 80 years old, suggesting he will go forward, in his words, in a timely manner with a highly qualified nominee.

This is the second vacancy. Sandra Day O'Connor, an associate justice, announced she was retiring. The president has nominated John Roberts, Judge John Roberts, to replace her.

Those confirmation hearings were scheduled to begin on Tuesday. There's some suggestion that could be delayed. The president saying only that he will move quickly to come up with a new chief justice nominee.

Bob Franken is over at the White House.

Bob, are you picking up any indication, how quickly the president might move on this front?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, but there's widespread belief that he has to move quite quickly. The Supreme Court's new term begins in less than a month.

There had been some hope that a fully constituted court would be in place by October 3rd, but, of course, that won't be the case. And there's almost no hope that both positions could be filled in time for that.

There's also the possibility that there could be three confirmation hearings. If the president decides to elevate one of the associate justices, he or she would be subject to a confirmation hearing, as well as the two others who would be replaced.

Now, if we end up with a Supreme Court that only has eight members, they can hear cases. But if there's a tie vote -- and that is also so possible in the polarized legal and political situation -- if there's a tie vote, it would mean that the lower court decision would be upheld, but it would not be considered precedent setting.

So you can see, legally, that there are all kinds of reasons to try to move as quickly as possible. But there's virtually no way, Wolf, that this will be accomplished by the time the court reconvenes.

BLITZER: And Sandra Day O'Connor, Bob, has said she will stay on the court until someone is confirmed to replace her. FRANKEN: That is correct. But that raises the possibilities that the confirmation will not just be about her. It also raises the concerns, of course, about how the decisions are made and all of that type of thing. If the rulings don't come until she's off of the court, it would seem that the normal procedures would be that she would continue to act, even as a retired justice, to be included in those opinions.

But it's quite a chaotic situation right now. And of course, it comes at a time of tremendous chaos for this administration and its problems with Hurricane Katrina.

BLITZER: Bob Franken at the White House, thanks very much, Bob. We're going to have continuing coverage of this story certainly.

Hurricane Katrina, and its aftermath, a state of emergency that continues. Let's send it back to the CNN Center -- Tony and Betty?

HARRIS: OK, Wolf, thank you. We'll see you again at the top of the hour.

NGUYEN: And we are waiting right now to hear from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, as well as FEMA officials there in Louisiana. They're going to be updating us on the relief and recovery efforts. There's a live picture of that staging area.

When it happens, we'll bring it to you live.

Time now for a mission-critical update on the hurricane relief efforts. About 3,000 soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division at Ft. Bragg should be in the disaster zone by this afternoon. Now, they left their North Carolina base last night.

In all, 54,000 troops will be deployed to Louisiana and Mississippi. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people may still be trapped in their homes in New Orleans. Helicopter crews are dropping food and water for survivors, and they say they will go door-to-door if they have to.

The sickest of the sick are being treated at the New Orleans airport. Touring the makeshift triage center yesterday, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said more than eight to 10 people are dying there every single day.

Now, with the last of their belongings in tow, the final evacuees from the Superdome and the convention center have climbed aboard buses and emptied out.

And crews are reporting progress and shoring up levees that breached New Orleans. They say it could take up to 80 days to get the water out of the city.

HARRIS: And, Betty, back now to Metairie, Louisiana, and the press conference with the secretary of homeland security, Michael Chertoff. We understand he's approaching the microphones. Let's take you there now live. MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Are we ready? Are you all settled down? All right. This is going to be short, because we have a lot to do.

I've just gotten here, I guess, a few hours ago in New Orleans. We've got a lot to do, in terms of meeting public officials and deciding where we go forward with this still-urgent crisis situation that we have in Louisiana and in Mississippi.

We've got a lot of different challenges, and time is running. So we have to keep moving quickly.

I want to address one thing, which is an issue in New Orleans. You know, we are now, you know, in the process of conducting not only, you now, essentially completing the evacuations from the Superdome and the convention center -- although, I want to point out, more people keep presenting themselves, so it's not going to be a process that ends. We're still going to be evacuating.

But we're also going, you know, to various locations, to various houses, starting to get people who have been hiding and been sheltering.

There are a significant number of people who have indicated they don't want to leave. We give them food and water.

Let me say this: That is not a reasonable alternative. We are not going to be able to have people sitting in houses in the city of New Orleans for weeks and months while we de-water and clean this city, with the hope that we're going to continue to supply them with food and water.

This is not going to be a -- the flooded places when they're de- watered are not going to be sanitary. They're not going to be healthy. There's not going to be a way to get food and water.

So we're going to be addressing this and other issues.

We're also examining the mission requirements, in terms of the military forces that are deployed in support, to make sure that we're moving forward on all fronts, in terms of completing this process of evacuation.

At the same time, we are -- my understanding is de-watering is under way. We are in the process of implementing the steps we need to take to deal with the problem of corpses that are going to be found, people that we may uncover.

We're eventually -- let me be clear. We're going to have to go house-to-house in this city. We're going to have to check every single place to find people who may be alive in need of assistance.

This is not going to happen overnight, but it is something that is very, very important. At the same time, standing back, we've got to look at urgent problems in Mississippi. There are problems in other parishes. We have to make sure that people who are being -- evacuees who are being sheltered in other states and other parts of this state are being adequately cared for. So we have got a tremendous press of business going forward.

Now, I'll take one or two questions, and then we're going to get on with things.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... outside the areas?

CHERTOFF: I'm sorry, I can't do both. What?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) going house-to-house outside the downtown New Orleans area?

MICHAEL BROWN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Let me just...

CHERTOFF: Yes.

BROWN: Just one additional part to that. We divided the city up into quadrants and divisions. What the USR teams have done is divide the city up into quadrants and divisions. And those are being done by priority. At the same time, we're using the military and other -- the Coast Guard and others to map the city GIS, about who's where, so we can do that house-to-house research, that house-to-house search. And that's going on right now.

QUESTION: Do you have a body count?

CHERTOFF: Wait a second. Let me introduce Admiral Solven (ph) here. He's from the Coast Guard.

Go ahead?

QUESTION: Can you tell us why the Red Cross wasn't allowed into New Orleans, that hasn't been allowed in?

BROWN: It's not safe for them to go in, for the very same reason that we were unable to take our medical teams and some of the search- and-rescue teams in at times. We had to keep them out. I don't want additional victims in this disaster.

QUESTION: Could they have been assistance to you in New Orleans?

BROWN: They were of assistance. They did a lot of good for us, providing meals, and sheltering, and helping us with the folks who were trying to find the people that evacuated. They did an excellent job with that. The Red Cross is fully engaged with us.

QUESTION: How do you respond to this widespread criticism that everything came too late in this process?

CHERTOFF: Here's my response. I said this, this morning. My response is, we are in the middle of an emergency now. It is not over. Is it not time to draw a deep breath and start to go back and revisit.

There will be plenty of time to go back and do lessons learned. From this point on, I only have one thing I want to think about, which is making sure that we are doing everything possible, as quickly as possible, to prevent further misfortune and loss of life and distress.

And I'm not going to take one minute away from doing that to answer questions about things which we'll have plenty of time to revisit later. The focus from this point on is going to be simply on, what are we doing now? How do we keep doing it? How do we do it better, if we have to? And how do we get it done?

That's it. Thanks.

QUESTION: Do you have a body count?

HARRIS: Michael Chertoff there, the secretary of homeland security, responding to a question about the criticism that has been heaped upon the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA, as well.

He just said there, now is not the time to address mistakes and lessons learned. The focus needs to be on the rescue and recovery effort and getting New Orleans back on its feet again. Obviously, a lot to do moving forward.

And that the secretary and Mike Brown, the director of FEMA, moving forward, trying to coordinate how best to get all of the work that needs to be done, done.

More evacuations are set to happen from the Superdome and the convention center. We learned that more people are still arriving at those locations, asking to be cared for at this time.

People want to stay with their homes. And I think that's understandable. But the secretary saying that that is not an acceptable option right now. And that he would love everyone to be moved out of the city right now.

The recovery of corpses will continue. The secretary saying that the search for the living and the dead will be a house-to-house search. And the efforts continue right now in New Orleans.

Everyone who has been evacuated from the Superdome and the convention center, still there are thousands of people displaced across the city. CNN's Jeff Koinange is in New Orleans for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Victims of Hurricane Katrina, tired of waiting for government help, seek answers from a higher authority. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a wake-up call for New Orleans. New Orleans is a filthy city. We got to stop the sin.

KOINANGE: Others try to find justification for the country's worst natural disaster in over a century...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How I feel? I'm tired of this. That's all -- I'm just -- I can't say nothing.

KOINANGE: ... while others still simply try to cope with the disaster that's left hundreds, possibly thousands, dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't feel depressed. And I don't feel let down, because God does everything for a reason and for a purpose, that his name may be glorified.

KOINANGE: These are the tired, the old, the hungry, and, most of all, the frustrated and angry residents of New Orleans who had been sleeping under the stars for nearly a week, waiting to be evacuated.

The conditions here were harsh, no running water, no sanitation, no food for five days. Many, like self-employed business Monroe Hoskins, lost everything.

MONROE HOSKINS, GOOD SAMARITAN: I have nothing. I have lost everything myself. I have one pair of pants, one shirt, and one pair of shoes.

KOINANGE: That's when he and this man, Stanley Rasmus, came up with a plan. They started a soup kitchen and admit to taking food and other groceries from nearby supermarkets but only, they insist, to help feed the hungry.

They've managed to provide three meals a day to hundreds, in addition to taking care of the elderly and sick in this abandoned hotel. Rasmus insists charity begins at home.

STANLEY RASMUS, GOOD SAMARITAN: We taxpayers, man. They us like dogs with this. They sending all of that money over to Iraq taking care of that. But they can't take care of their country, man.

KOINANGE: His friend sums up the feelings of many here who feel let down by their leaders.

HOSKINS: To be the richest country in the deal, this is a disgrace. How can you take care of other countries when you cannot take care of home?

Is this racist? Is this a racist statement that you making? Come on, take care of us. We need you. Our people have fought, have died, have built this country.

KOINANGE: Now, it's his people who will have to rebuild a battered city while trying to rebuild their own shattered lives.

Jeff Koinange, CNN, New Orleans. (END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: We want you to take a look at this right now. On this split screen, on the left-hand side, you can see a U.S. Coast Guard helicopter circling over New Orleans, looking for any survivors that may still be trapped in their homes or wandering the streets.

On the right side, you see evacuees being taken to the New Orleans airport. So we've got a lot of situations going on right now. We want to keep you on top of everything.

But again, as we heard from Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, there are many people throughout New Orleans who have not made it to the convention center and the Superdome before those areas were cleared out. And they're still in the city, looking for ways out, looking for shelter.

And that's what this Coast Guard helicopter is trying to do, circling the city, finding people, survivors who may be wandering the streets, or even trapped inside their homes.

Of course, we're going to keep you on top of all of this.

And, tonight, we will have stories of survival and loss in the wake of one of the worst natural disasters ever to hit the U.S. Be sure to tune in at 8:00 Eastern for "Sudden Fury in Katrina's Deadly Wake."

And coming up next, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld arrives in Louisiana this morning to tour the devastation firsthand. We will go live to Baton Rouge where he has just landed. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has just landed in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. His first order of business, a briefing from the general in charge of the military relief effort.

Let's go live now to CNN's Alina Cho in Baton Rouge with the latest there on the ground -- Alina?

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Betty, good morning to you. That is right. Secretary Rumsfeld, along with his top general, Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers, are here in Baton Rouge, not far from here, at the airport.

Right now, we understand, they are being briefed by Lieutenant General Russel Honore. He is the man in charge of the military relief effort here.

After that, they will all fly to New Orleans and are expected to arrive there at about noon Eastern time. At that point, it is believed that both Rumsfeld and Myers will take a tour of the devastation. But it is unclear at this point whether they will be touring by air, or by ground, or boat. We can tell you that trips to the devastated areas, like this, especially in times like these, can be affected. Just the day before yesterday, as you know, President Bush was here in the area, toured the devastation in New Orleans, went specifically to the 17th Street Canal levee breach, where we visited yesterday.

We spoke to a construction worker there who actually shook the president's hand, spoke to him for 10 minutes. And he told me yesterday that that did a lot to boost morale there, particularly when construction workers, those workers, are working around the clock with very little or no sleep -- Betty?

NGUYEN: Yes, we are looking at pictures right now, Alina, of helicopters rescuing people in the New Orleans area from their homes. I know that you've been on top of the levee situation. Give us an update on where that stands and how soon before water can be taken out of the city.

CHO: Well, first of all, it is very difficult to get there. We happened to be escorted by the Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development.

The first thing we noticed when we got there -- first of all, it's a maze just to get to that site, because of all of the downed trees and the devastation.

But once we got there, the first thing that we noticed, Betty, was just the roar of Black Hawk helicopters. And here's what they're doing. Essentially, these couple of Black Hawk helicopters are flying in a circle. They have picking up 3,000-pound sandbags and then dropping them at that 500-foot breach in the levee.

Here's how it works. Essentially, those sandbags and these huge slabs of concrete that they are placing there serve as a temporary fix. Eventually, they will rebuild the retaining wall.

Now, they hope to have this initial project completed by tomorrow night. And at that point, Betty, they will begin the arduous process of pumping the water out of the city. And as we've been hearing, that process could take up to 80 days -- Betty?

NGUYEN: Yes, that's definitely going to take some time. But progress is being made.

Alina Cho, thanks for that update.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is planning to visit her home state of Alabama today. She'll visit Mobile, which is a coastal city that was hit particularly hard. Rice plans to attend church, then tour hurricane damage with Governor Bob Riley and U.S. Senator Jeff Sessions.

She is coordinating offers of help from more than 60 countries. Rice says no offer has been turned down.

HARRIS: Betty, want to take a moment now and show you more live pictures from our pool photographer, our helicopter pilot who is giving us this wonderful picture of the city.

Wonderful that we can get a look at what the city looks like. But, as you can see, there is a lot of distress on the ground.

We are seeing a city that is still, for the most part, surrounded, submerged, under water. And we're looking at homes and neighborhoods that have absolutely been decimated.

And what this pilot is doing, J.T. Alpaugh and others are doing, is looking for survivors. Let's listen into what J.T. is saying right now.

J.T. ALPAUGH, HELICOPTER PILOT: One, two, three, four, OK. Just a little mike check here. We had to turn that down.

But you can see all of the oil that's -- that gasoline that's in the water. We're going to try - we've got the sun off our left. I'm going to shoot to the left. We're going to try to push in here to see if I can't...

HARRIS: And once again, pictures from J.T. Alpaugh, who has done yeoman work flying over the city of New Orleans, providing us with amazing pictures of just how devastated the city of New Orleans is. And as you can see, there are people -- still people everywhere in the city, some deciding not to leave their homes, out on porches.

We still see folks occasionally on a rooftop, but, as you can see, people there on a porch. I don't know if that's the first level or the second level, presumably waiting for help or at least waiting for supplies.

Still ahead, it was almost destroyed by Hurricane Katrina. But that's not stopping members of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gulfport, Mississippi, from attending service this morning. A live report from that area when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, good morning. We want to welcome you back to CNN's special coverage, State of Emergency. And from this picture, you can see why.

Welcome to the CNN Center in Atlanta. I'm Betty Nguyen.

HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris. Thanks for turning to CNN.

Time now for a mission-critical update on the hurricane relief efforts.

About 3,000 soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg should be in the disaster zone by this afternoon. They left their North Carolina base last night. In all, 54, 54,000 troops will be deployed to Louisiana and Mississippi.

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people may still be trapped in their homes in New Orleans. Helicopter crews are dropping food and water for survivors. And they say they'll go door-to-door if they have to.

The sickest of the sick are being treated at the New Orleans airport. Touring the makeshift triage center yesterday, Senate majority leader Bill Frist said more than eight to 10 people are dying there every day.

With the last of their belongings in tow, the final evacuees from the Superdome and the Convention Center have climbed aboard buses and emptied out.

And crews are reporting progress in shoring up the levees that breached in New Orleans. They say it could take up to 80 days to get the water out of the city.

NGUYEN: Well, a Sunday service will be held this morning on the floor of St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gulfport, Mississippi. That floor is just about all that remains.

CNN's Chris Huntington joins us now from the church. And Chris, will many church members even be able to get to this service, given the conditions there?

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, I think we're showing you now the parishioners. And I would just estimate that there's about 30 of them that have made it here. Must have been a remarkable journey to get here just this morning, because we needed a police escort to get down here.

This is right along the beachfront road in Gulfport, Mississippi. We are, frankly, about equidistant between downtown Gulfport, which is to the west of me, and downtown Biloxi. This is among the hardest-hit areas in all of the Gulf Coast, absolutely flattened. All that remains of St. Mark's Church, frankly, is the floor.

They've been able to get some of the remnants of the church, the railings, the altar railings, for instance, that were found nearby, and they've been able to stand those up, prop them up, for this service.

Reverend Bo Roberts, who will be conducting the service here, which is due to begin in a few minutes, took over the rectorship of this church in April of 1969, just a few months before Camille hit. And Camille, at that point, moved the church about 100 yards in, but the building wasn't destroyed, and they moved it back here.

Katrina absolutely decimated it.

We had a chance to speak to at length with Reverend Roberts earlier. I think we have his remarks right now.

Well, I'm sorry, we can't bring that to you. But he is a man who is deeply wrapped in this community, as you might imagine.

And we asked him, Why did you stick around? He stayed in his house, which is another mile inland or so, and he said that he wanted to be near his parishioners, because he pointed out adroitly that it's very difficult to get back into this area if you go a certain distance out after the hurricane. And he said he needed to be near his parishioners to help them, to minister to them in any way possible.

He's very proud of the fact that in his tenure here at St. Mark's, they have never missed a Sunday. And so he is making good on that promise by holding mass here. He did concede that he thinks it's unlikely they'll be to hold more masses here on this particular site in the Sundays to come. They hope to get some temporary churches down here in the weeks and months to come.

Betty, back to you.

NGUYEN: Chris, I imagine part of the difficulty getting there is just the large amounts of debris that's everywhere. What's being done to get some of that out of the way and begin this rebuilding process?

HUNTINGTON: Well, we are seeing evidence of the Army Corps of Engineers, the Seabees, also private contractors, that have begun the -- I don't know if there's a word to describe it -- we can say monumental task of trying to remove the debris.

Keep in mind that we're talking about a debris zone that extends at least half a mile inland and for 60 miles along the coast. And everything, everything, that was manmade has been destroyed in that swath. And I'm speaking conservatively, only going half a mile inland. In many places, it's more than a mile in.

All of that has to be removed and taken somewhere. And that's a whole other issue. Frankly, about the only thing that's standing right here on the coastline consistently are the oak trees that line this part of the Mississippi coast. Perhaps a natural justice there, Betty.

NGUYEN: All right. Chris Huntington, thank you for that report out of Gulfport, Mississippi.

Tony?

HARRIS: And still ahead this hour, filled to the brim in Houston. Find out the newest measure that city has taken to accommodate the flood of residents fleeing New Orleans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Want you to take a look at these live pictures coming to us out of New Orleans right now. You can see this U.S. Coast Guard helicopter is circling around the city, trying to find survivors. Looks like they may have possibly found someone, because they're sending a man down.

As you can see, the water is still just throughout the city, halfway up to points on houses there, as you can see in this picture.

We're going to watch for just a minute and see where he goes and who he's able to rescue in this really rescue and relief operation that's taking place right now. No telling how many people are stuck inside their homes, unable to get help. Let's take a listen.

ALPAUGH: ... down on the rooftop. Thumbs up. Off the hoist. Talking to the rescuers and getting a plan together. Passing information -- Don't -- not sure how many other people are inside. But we know that they're going to probably get them all out here. Yes, he's waving to all the people that are inside (INAUDIBLE) shelter at this school to come on out.

So again, we've -- They got to give a VHF frequency out for...

Hey, Ron, if we're doing OK on signal, we're going to hold this altitude. But the continuous transmit's breaking up. So we can kill that for a second, please.

NGUYEN: And we're watching these live pictures coming to us out of New Orleans, as a rescue operation is taking place right now, the rooftop of a school. As you can see, there are several people outside on the top of this roof, and many more, presumably, on the inside, because one gentleman just moments ago walked around that pillar there and was going inside to notify some of the other people that had been trapped inside this school.

As you can see, water is surrounding it since Hurricane Katrina hit. This is one of many operations that are taking place, as mentioned earlier. There's no telling how many people are still trapped. And we're seeing now, maybe they're not going to be brought up into the helicopter and taken to a shelter, but instead, food is being lifted down to them, food and much-needed water.

Of course, their supplies have got to be extremely low, if not just depleted at this point.

HARRIS: Well, now, I think you're right, Betty, the sense is that when we're talking about a school, you would think that a school is one of the places that a number of people would run to for shelter...

NGUYEN: Right.

HARRIS: ... as the storm surge was coming in, as the levee broke, and the water just sort of flooded the city of New Orleans.

And as you see, you're right in saying that it's not a rescue effort, at least, not yet, to airlift folks out of that school. We have no idea how many people are inside that school. But right now, it's -- the mission is to lower supplies to those folks.

And that man appears to either be distressed or hurt or something, and you see, you know, a frail-looking elderly woman there to his right. And I don't know if she's disoriented or not, but it looks like she is going to absolutely need help (INAUDIBLE)...

NGUYEN: So maybe that's what they're doing right now, is bringing in supplies, but taking out those most critically injured or in need of some kind of medical assistance, and putting them in...

HARRIS: She is being moved to the basket, that's for sure.

So we have an air drop of supplies for the people inside the school. No idea of how many people are there. And we're also seeing a rescue from the top, Betty, of a school, of what appears to be an elderly woman. Let's listen in.

ALPAUGH: ... real close to here.

She's on board right now. Probably all of her worldly possessions, everything she owns probably right there in those black plastic trash kit, trash bags.

Now, you're going to see this Coast Guard rescue (INAUDIBLE), getting the thumbs up for the (INAUDIBLE), do you hear? And she probably already did. And away she goes.

Basket starting a spin here, so the pilot's going to use a maneuver to try to stop that spin as it gets closer up to the crew chief of this (INAUDIBLE) helicopter. He's going to stop the spin with his foot.

NGUYEN: This is just really amazing to watch, as people, one after another, are being plucked off of balconies. In this case, an elderly woman being taken off the rooftop of the school.

And as you mentioned, Tony, a school is an area where many people probably did seek shelter. This is a school that has several stories to it, so, of course, they went to the highest one, and had been camped out there, waiting for some kind of relief, for someone to come by and rescue them.

Of course, it doesn't appear that all of them are going to be rescued in this particular instance, because there's no telling how many people are inside that school. But at least this one lady is being taken off of the roof, and supplies had been brought in.

HARRIS: Can't imagine how brave that woman is. She obviously is -- I mean, if she was disoriented when she was on the top of the school, can you imagine when the basket...

NGUYEN: Started spinning?

HARRIS: ... starts to spin a little bit? Oh...

NGUYEN: Goodness.

HARRIS: ... my goodness. And as you can see at the very end there, she just was trying to help her rescuers, you know, by offering them a hand and helping as best she could to get out of that basket. My goodness.

NGUYEN: You know, when you see that, and then you look at this wide shot of all of the homes and all of the buildings, there is no telling how many people are still trapped, how many are in need of supplies. For instance, right now, look at this one gentleman sitting there...

HARRIS: Right on the rooftop.

NGUYEN: ... on the roof, just waiting, obviously...

HARRIS: For his turn.

NGUYEN: Yes, you can't see any supplies around him. No telling what kind of food or water that he has, if he has any. They're all just waiting for some kind of relief, someone to come and rescue them out of this situation.

HARRIS: And we'll continue to monitor those pictures from J.T. Alpaugh, amazing pictures of the rescue effort ongoing in New Orleans, people still on rooftops, waiting for their turn. When is it their turn to be rescued?

There are reports that more than 220,000 people have taken refuge in the state of Texas. They are camped out in motels, shelters, churches, and private homes. But the single largest group is in the Houston Astrodome.

CNN's Keith Oppenheim is standing by there live. Hello, Keith.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony.

And that's right, it's really astounding numbers, when you think about it. People are staying in very large venues, such as the Astrodome and the Reliant Center right near me, as well as some very small places. And as you were indicating, we're really now talking about a quarter-million evacuees in the state of Texas.

And that figure, by the way, does not include people who are staying in churches as well as private homes.

The Astrodome has about 16,000 evacuees staying in there right now. Three other arenas in Houston, major ones, are taking in another 9,000 or so, with other cities such as Dallas and San Antonio also using major facilities to temporarily house the hurricane victims.

The governor of Texas, excuse me, Rick Perry, says that his state is reaching capacity in terms of taking evacuees. Churches are also taking evacuees as well, and making a big difference.

Yesterday afternoon, I went to a church called Christ Church Baptist Fellowship on the north side of the city. They had 250 people taking shelter there. It's a shelter run by the American Red Cross. Very organized operation. They were distributing clothes for people as they needed. They had a big kitchen operation.

They -- so far, they haven't even had to go out and buy food, or use Red Cross vouchers, Tony, because corporations in the area, as well as restaurants, have been donating food to that specific church.

So there's a lot of generosity going on. The strategy for churches like this is to keep people there short term. And that's also true for the Astrodome and the other major centers throughout Texas. The idea is to shift people to places closer to New Orleans, or sites in Louisiana, as soon as possible.

But the other thing is, some people that we talked to yesterday, Tony, they are now looking for jobs. They're getting apartments. Their short-term strategy is to find a way to get by in the Houston area, or in Texas, because right now, where they used to live in Louisiana is not a place they can return to anytime soon.

So you have to think that, on some level, the population in Houston and in other parts of Texas, or any other place that's taking in evacuees in a major way, is going to go up, because people are starting to make a life shift, to move to where they are now living.

Back to you.

HARRIS: Absolutely, Keith. Six months to get the water out of New Orleans, another three months to dry the city out. Folks are probably deciding just to put down roots right where they are.

Keith Oppenheim for us in Houston. Keith, thank you.

NGUYEN: Coming up next, fact versus fiction. We will examine the federal government's intelligence on the levee system that collapsed under Hurricane Katrina.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: I can tell you that over the last few days, a number of us have been concerned, as I'm sure you are, at what the likely death toll might be from Hurricane Katrina. We have, as we take a look at bringing all the technology into play here, to show you activity on a number of different fronts in New Orleans.

Well, we have this bulletin just in from the Health and Human Services secretary, Michael Leavitts, who says the death toll from Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, throughout Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, the death toll from Hurricane Katrina could be in the thousands. Once again, in the thousands, the death toll from Hurricane Katrina. And that is coming from the secretary of Health and Human Services, Michael Leavitts.

HARRIS: OK, FEMA is taking a lot of heat for what's seen as a slow response to the hurricane disaster. In its defense, FEMA says it underestimated the wrath of the storm and the scope of the devastation.

CNN's Tom Foreman has this fact check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: This is really one which I think was breathtaking in its surprise.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff continues to say the power of Katrina could not have been predicted, even as his department is accused of miscalculating the level of destruction they would face, and the painfully slow response.

CHERTOFF: It wasn't until comparatively late, shortly before -- a day, maybe a day and a half before landfall, that it became clear that this was going to be a category 4 or 5 hurricane heading for the New Orleans area.

FOREMAN: But the National Hurricane Center was warning of Katrina's growing danger four days before landfall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a very vulnerable area of the coast. If it goes in the western quadrant, we've always talked about that nightmare scenario...

FOREMAN: Chertoff's own undersecretary, Michael Brown of FEMA, discussed the storm's power and direction on the Friday before the storm hit on Monday.

MICHAEL BROWN, DIRECTOR OF FEMA: The Hurricane Center at its 5:00 forecast says this easily be a category 4 by the end of the weekend. So tonight's Friday. So all those people living all the way from Louisiana over to the Florida Panhandle need to think now about getting ready for what could be a very major storm.

FOREMAN: Katrina hit as a level 4 storm, exactly as Brown described. But afterward, when FEMA's relief efforts came under criticism, he said this.

BROWN: I must say, this storm is much, much bigger than anyone expected.

FOREMAN: There's more. Chertoff repeatedly talks about the hurricane and the break of the levees in New Orleans as if they are separate events, another unpredictable one-two punch.

CHERTOFF: ... a devastating hurricane followed by a second devastating flood.

FOREMAN: Flooding, is, of course an expected result of any hurricane and historically has killed many more people than high winds. Chertoff admits FEMA knew the levees around New Orleans might be overrun by a category 4 hurricane. However...

CHERTOFF: The collapse of a significant portion of the levee, leading to the very fast flooding of the city, was not envisioned.

FOREMAN: But FEMA conducted a five-day drill last year to consider a big hurricane hitting New Orleans. They knew the levees were built to withstand only a category 3 storm, and that floodwater flowing over a levee is a predictable cause of a collapse.

CHERTOFF: Well, I will tell you, that really, that kind -- that perfect storm of combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight. FOREMAN: Not true. For many years, many researchers, weather experts, and journalists have written in great detail about what would happen if a major hurricane hit New Orleans. Their predictions were widely known, and now have proven to be right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: And Secretary Chertoff has continued with the same tack this morning. He's been on talk shows here saying things which, from all we can tell, in many cases, are in direct contradiction of the facts, saying, for example, that they rescued 10,000 people in three days. I'm not sure which three days he's talking about. His own department, FEMA, put out a -- or Homeland Security put out a press release a few days ago that said they'd rescued 4,500 people in three days. So suddenly the number has doubled.

This is going on and on and on. He keeps saying that it's utterly unpredictable. When he's pressed about whether he or his FEMA director, Mike Brown, are actually doing their jobs, and whether or not anybody should lose their jobs in this whole process, he keeps saying, No, no, no, we're doing the best we can, we're doing all we can in very difficult circumstances, which everyone acknowledges.

But I do know, talking to New Orleaneans all over the country, friends from the past, and other people who've just called in, many people are very, very angry about this, and they're saying that maybe some heads should roll, not for political reasons, but for practical reasons. We're talking about a disaster that is ongoing, will be ongoing for weeks and months.

And they're saying, Why on earth would people be kept in jobs if they can't do the jobs? And that's the accusation.

HARRIS: Tom, thank you. Tom Foreman.

Tonight, we'll have stories of survival and loss in the wake of one of the worst natural disasters ever to hit the U.S. Be sure to tune in at 8:00 Eastern for Sudden Fury: In Katrina's Deadly Wake.

NGUYEN: But in the meantime, we do want to thank you for joining us today.

HARRIS: "LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER" is coming up next.

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