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CNN Live Sunday
Civil Rights Pioneer Honored in National Memorial Services; Bush White House Regrouping for New Start; Farmers Hit Hard by Hurricane Wilma; California Teen Goes on Shooting Spree, Kills Self; President, Vice President's Polls Remain Low; Civil Rights Leader Shares Memories of Rosa Parks
Aired October 30, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, HOST: Straight ahead in this hour, a tribute never before granted to a woman. Civil rights pioneer Rosa Parks will soon lie in honor at the Capitol Rotunda. We have special coverage throughout the hour.
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kareen Wynter in Los Angeles. I'll have the latest on a weekend shooting spree that's rocked a Southern California neighborhood.
LIN: And a woman fights for her life with burns covering 60 percent of her body. Hear why her family says a judge is to blame.
It is October 30, and you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
Good evening. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin. To our top story in just a moment, but first the stories making news right now.
The brother of an Iraqi vice president was shot to death today in Baghdad. He and his driver were among at least nine Iraqis killed by insurgents around Baghdad.
In Afghanistan, two U.S. soldiers faced charges of assaulting captives in their custody. A military news release indicates the soldiers roughed up the captives but did not cause any serious injuries.
And runners ruled the streets today in northern Virginia and Washington, D.C. It was the 30th annual Marine Corps marathon, and this year about 30,000 runners took part, an impressive showing including several participants running in honor of loved ones in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to do this for my husband, mainly, because he's in Iraq and I just wanted to do something for him, because he's doing something for our country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're going to call him tonight and tell him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm hoping I'm going to get a phone call from him soon, so I can let him know. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: A fitting farewell to a true American pioneer. The body of civil rights activist Rosa Parks is about to lie in honor beneath the U.S. Capitol Rotunda. Among those who will file past her casket, President Bush.
CNN's Gary Nuremberg is on Capitol Hill right now.
Gary, give us an idea of what the scene is like there. How many people are assembled?
GARY NUREMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening, Carol.
There are thousands of people, stretching from the west front of the Capitol down Third Street and near the botanical gardens, for those of you familiar with Washington. And as far, at least in the nighttime sky, as the eye can see, as thousands of regular Americans are here to pay tribute to change -- to a woman, rather, who changed American history.
About two and a half minutes ago, the crowd erupted in applause and cheers as the president's motorcade arrived here at the United States Capitol. We don't know if the applause and cheers were for the president or for the sign that perhaps their hours of waiting in line may soon be coming to an end.
But the president, rather, arrived here only moments ago to be among the first to play tribute to a woman who will lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda, the first woman in American history to do that, the second African American.
The leadership of the House and Senate were seen by television cameras walking into the Rotunda a few moments ago. Only a few moments ago, also, we lost sight of the motorcade coming from Baltimore Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport, where Ms. Parks' remains were -- arrived earlier this evening, rather. Lost sight because that motorcade has now entered Washington airspace. We're not allowed any more to take helicopter pictures of it, a sign that the casket will soon arrive here at the Capitol.
Interestingly, I went down and talked to some people in the crowd. Some came from far away, bringing family members. I talked to one young woman who brought her 4-month-old son and her 4-year-old son, drove from Northern New Jersey in order to be here today, saying it's important that they experience this page of American history. Because of Ms. Parks, that mother said, her children will face a far brighter future than they did before.
A singular honor for the civil rights leader. We should see that taking place in the next few minutes. And of course, Carol, when the casket arrives here and the president takes part in this ceremony, we'll bring it to you right away.
LIN: You bet. We're going to be dipping in and out of the special coverage, Gary, and talking to the people who knew her well. Thank you very much.
Elsewhere in Washington, no rest for the battered Republicans. Bush administration officials tell CNN tomorrow may be the day. The president is expected to make public his next choice for Supreme Court justice. We may also see a new aide to the vice president this week. And you can bet there's more fallout from the CIA leak scandal.
More from CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A wave, a smile and a hope he can finally start digging out from under the slew of political problems that threw his presidency into crisis. The Bush cleanup campaign is expected to start Monday by announcing a new nominee for the Supreme Court to replace the embattled Harriet Miers.
Aides hope to calm conservatives with a pick that has a clear judicial record, unlike Miers.
REP. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: I think, unfortunately, we're at a time in our nation's history where you have to have a demonstrated track record of a particular judicial philosophy that says that judges should not legislate from the bench. In other words, a traditional judicial philosophy.
BASH: Among those on the short list, appellate judges like known conservative Samuel Alito; Michael Luttig, another long-time rank and file GOP favorite; as well as Priscilla Owen and Alice Batchelter, also considered by Mr. Bush before.
The White House hopes the do-over debate about the Supreme Court, plus what aides call a back to basics focus on issues from the bird flu to the budget, will help heal their political wounds. But for rehabilitation, many allies are now going public the long growing belief it's time to shake up a tired, insular Bush staff.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's been five years now. Change is always good.
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R), MISSISSIPPI: I do think that new blood quite often helps change the dynamics.
KEN DUBERSTEIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: All second term presidents need some fresh blood, some new ideas.
BASH: One Bush advisor tells CNN the president is clearly disappointed in top staff for political debacles, from hurricane recovery to the Miers nomination. And senior aides say Mr. Bush will likely make changes, replacing the chief of staff and others as soon as the end of the year, one top official saying the president does not want to do anything that looks, quote, "brash or part of a P.R. effort."
Some outside advisors are already floating trade rep Rob Portman to replace Andy Card. Deputy chief of staff Karl Rove escaped indictment for now. But sources say he did talk to reporters about the CIA operative. And some call the president's top political aide a liability.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: He's still around. He should be let go.
BASH (on camera): So far Mr. Bush has given only one short statement, praising former Cheney chief of staff Scooter Libby and expressing sadness for his indictment. Some on both sides of the aisle, however, say Mr. Bush should give a public statement saying what lessons he's learned from the leaks investigation. A senior Bush official says that's not going to happen until the legal process is wrapped up.
Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, as for the husband and wife at the center of the leak scandal, former U.S. ambassador Joe Wilson says he considers the grand jury investigation a personal affront. In an "L.A. Times" op-ed piece published this weekend, Wilson writes, "The attacks on Valerie and me were upsetting, disruptive and vicious. They amounted to character assassination. Senior administration officials used the power of the White House to make our lives hell for the last 27 months. But more important, they did it as part of a clear effort to cover up the lies and disinformation used to justify the invasion of Iraq. That is the ultimate crime."
And a reminder here: former ambassador, Joe Wilson, will join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow on "THE SITUATION ROOM." That's going to air at a special time, 7 p.m. Eastern.
Now someone who has a run -- has run a personal attack gauntlet or two, spoke about the subject yesterday in Texas. Former President Bill Clinton told a book festival crowd in Austin that Democrats should fight conservative attacks if they hope to regain power.
Clinton didn't mention the Plame affair.
All right. As you know by now, we are waiting for Rosa Parks' body to arrive at the nation's Capitol. It's expected to arrive, frankly, in the next 10 minutes. And once it does, we will bring you live coverage of the proceedings there as President Bush prepares to honor the civil rights leader, Rosa Parks, who died at the age of 92 last Monday.
Now we're going to take you to South Florida. It is six days now since the pounding by Hurricane Wilma, and many, many people still have far to go before their lives return to normal. CNN's J.J. Ramberg is in Goulds, Florida, near Homestead this evening -- J.J.
J.J. RAMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Carol.
Well, some of the people who are going to feel the repercussions of this storm the longest are the farmers here in this area. You can see behind me now, I'm at a pole bean farm. And this is just an example of the destruction that we're seeing all over this area.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAMBERG (voice-over): Walk through Larry Donigan's (ph) avocado farm in Southern Florida, and it looks like a wild forest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lookee here. This tree here...
RAMBERG: Overgrown weeds, broken branches, toppled trees. There are few signs of the organized grove Donigan (ph) and his family have planted over the past three generations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trees would be standing up straight. Avocados would be hanging. You could just reach out there and grab them. They would look nice.
RAMBERG: Hurricane Wilma's fierce winds tore through his farm last week, killing nearly all the avocados, beans and squash he was growing. And creating a ripple that could extend throughout the country. Southern Florida is the top producer of winter vegetables at this time of year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These won't make it. There won't be beans, pole beans for Thanksgiving this year.
RAMBERG: We have them for Christmas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll have some for Christmas. Yes, we will.
RAMBERG: Early estimates are that agricultural damage from Wilma will top $1 billion. For farmers here, the timing of the storm couldn't have been worse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These won't come back. They're too far gone.
RAMBERG: Donigan's (ph) neighbor, Eric Terisi (ph), grows tomatoes, squash and beans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should have had money coming in in another 30 days. Now we won't see any income for closer to 90 days. So it definitely puts a damper on Christmas, so to speak, you know? You don't have the money coming in that you would have had coming in so it -- it tightens up the belt.
RAMBERG: With the land in this part of the state in high demand for housing development, agricultural officials worry about the long- term effect of the hurricane season on Florida's farming industry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we're going to see a lot of pressure on farmers to sell. I think that developers will come after the farmers with increased pressure, knowing that it's hard enough to be in agriculture as it is.
RAMBERG: Larry Donigan (ph) says his land is not for sale. He's been farming it his entire life, and he's seen tough times before. (on camera) Does it make you sometimes just want to throw up your hands?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, yes, but we're resilient. We'll be back in business before you know it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAMBERG: Now Carol, you certainly have to be resilient. Think, this estimated $1 billion in damages is on top of the half billion dollars in damages done by Katrina when it hit here in August. So Larry Donigan's (ph) attitude about being resilient and making it through is really incredible, but it's one that we saw from all the farmers that we spoke to today -- Carol.
LIN: You bet. Let's hope the consumer can be resilient, as well, after this hurricane season.
RAMBERG: Exactly.
LIN: J.J., thank you.
Well, in California, a bizarre crime. A teenager in a dark cape and paintball mask goes on a shooting rampage. Investigators want to know why. CNN's Kareen Wynter is following that story. This is really bizarre.
WYNTER: It really is, Carol, and one lieutenant I spoke with earlier today said that they may never know what caused this shooting. Investigators also say they haven't determined what led 19-year-old William Freund on a murder spree.
Officials say Freund left his house Saturday morning, wearing a black cape and a helmet, and drove to a neighbor's house. The teen allegedly used a shotgun to kill a 22-year-old woman and her father. There was another family member in the house who escaped through the back door.
Detectives say Freund also fired into a home across the street and tried shooting at another neighbor, but the shotgun misfired. That's when Freund went home and shot himself to death.
Officials say there's no connection between Freund and his victims other than the fact they were, quote, "neighborhood acquaintances."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM AMORMINO, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We have no prior contact with the suspect. We had no prior calls to the location. I will say, though, that his behavior is definitely strange and bizarre. Anyone that leaves his home with a shotgun, dressed in a dark cape with some type of a helmet on, is definitely -- does exhibit strange behavior. I'm not sure exactly what the problem was.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WYNTER: Investigators say today's autopsy results on Freund and the victims offered no additional insight as to the teen's motive for the shootings -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Kareen.
New information just in to CNN: how President Bush fared after a stormy week in Washington. The latest poll numbers next.
And one woman's fight for her life: how a judge may have played a role in putting her in a hospital burn unit.
Also, live pictures now at the Capitol Rotunda, where people are waiting to pay their respects to Rosa Parks. She will lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda, the first woman to ever do so. Rosa Parks, who passed away at the age of 92, is credited with sparking the civil rights movement.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Not a word of apology. Not a word of explanation to the American people. Here is someone that's -- that's charged with obstructing justice, someone who's charged with perjury. The president said anyone involved would be gone. And we now know that "official A" is Karl Rove. He's still around. He should be let go. The president's going to have to get a touch of reality and explain to the American people not only what has gone on but what is going on.
CORNYN: I think the president does have an opportunity now, after a very -- admittedly a very bad week -- to turn things around and to, I think, show why the people of this country reelected him just one short year ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: As Senator Cornyn just said, a very bad week for the Bush White House. And you may be wondering how the administration's woes are tracking in the polls. Well, the very latest numbers just in to CNN, and the president's job approval rating is holding steady at 41 percent. Now likewise, his disapproval rating is unchanged at 56 percent.
Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, joining us from Washington with a closer look.
Bill, what do you think of those numbers?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they're not very good. They haven't changed very much from where President Bush is suffering his biggest damage isn't particularly on his approval rating but on the sense that he can manage government effectively. A majority for the first time, 56 percent, as you see here, do not think he can manage government effectively. He came in promising to be -- to operate like a chief executive officer of a corporation. Americans sorely disappointed. That's the highest "no" answer on that question we've ever seen.
But the real damage seems to be done to the vice president, Dick Cheney. For the first time, a majority of Americans is expressing an unfavorable opinion of Dick Cheney. Most Americans believe that Cheney was aware of what his chief of staff, Scooter Libby, was doing in this matter. And for the first time, Americans say they have a negative opinion of Cheney.
And finally, a very harsh judgment indeed. Fifty-five percent of Americans say Bush's presidency will be a failure at the end of the next three years. They think -- the same number think it's a failure already, and they think it will be a failure.
That is, in fact, a very harsh judgment, and with three years to go, perhaps you might say a hasty judgment.
LIN: So what do you think? House cleaning? Radical house cleaning of the inner circle at the White House?
SCHNEIDER: Oh, I would say three things need to be done. One is fess up and second is fresh faces, fresh blood. And the third is new ideas.
Fess up means acknowledge mistakes. Not in the passive voice, "mistakes were made," but in the active voice, "We made mistakes."
LIN: He's not going to do that. Have you ever known President Bush to do something like that?
SCHNEIDER: No, never. Never. Nor has he shaken up his White House staff. You've heard all the recommendations. There has to be fresh faces, fresh blood, and most likely one that will replace Karl Rove.
And finally, people don't know what the Bush agenda is for the next three years, which is why they say his presidency is going to fail. He's got to come up with a new agenda, something that he says the next three years are going to do that will excite Americans.
LIN: And what could that be? I mean, is the Supreme Court nominee really going to get people's blood going?
SCHNEIDER: No, not really. That's something he has to do constitutionally. Although if he appoints someone remotely like John Roberts, that could give Americans some fresh hope that this presidency is going to try to govern by consensus.
But he's not going to have an agenda that isn't tired, that isn't old, that doesn't look failed, like trying to revive his Social Security program, that really didn't go anywhere. LIN: I was just talking with Carlos Watson in the last hour, and he was predicting that it could be health care. Maybe not a national health care plan, per se, but a plan nevertheless.
SCHNEIDER: Yes. That would be a smart idea, because health care costs is a big concern, are a big concern to business as well as to most Americans. The hurricane, Katrina, has brought that into sharp relief. Something has to be done about Medicare and Medicaid, where costs are rapidly mounting. That's a more serious problem coming down the pike than Social Security. That would be a very bold step.
The question is what's he going to do? Remember, Clinton tried to do something, and it blew up in his face.
LIN: Right. And in the meantime, the CIA leak investigation is not over. I mean, this White House is not in the clear yet. So what do you think is going to happen in the Scooter Libby indictment? Do you think this thing is going to go to trial?
SCHNEIDER: I think it's doubtful it will go to trial. I think Scooter Libby is likely to try to work out a plea bargain. The problem is that the special prosecutor says he wants Scooter Libby to do serious prison time, which Libby might not be inclined -- certainly, no one would be inclined to want to do.
But the problem for him is, if there is a trial, his defense will almost certainly have to call the vice president, Dick Cheney, to testify about what he said to Libby. Libby has always protected his boss, his former boss now, the vice president, and he would be very disinclined to try to force the vice president to subpoena him to testify in his defense. That could be a very awkward situation.
So in the end, he may take a prison sentence.
LIN: Right. Well, you know what? Prison time is definitely a test of loyalty. We'll see what happens, Bill.
SCHNEIDER: Yes.
LIN: All right. Bill Schneider, thank you.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
LIN: Bad judgment? Is a judge to blame for one woman landing in a hospital burn unit? Next, her family tells us why they think so.
Also, continuing live coverage, as we wait and all these people at the Capitol Rotunda in Washington, D.C., wait to honor Rosa Parks. Her body will lie in honor at the Capitol Rotunda. The motorcade is heading to the nation's capital right now and is expected to be there at any moment. And we are going to take you there live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Welcome back, as we take you live now to the nation's Capitol. That is the motorcade that is bringing Rosa Parks' body to the Capitol Rotunda, where she will lay in honor and people can come, thousands of people in fact, already lined up, can come to pay their respects to Rosa Parks until midnight tonight, as well as for a few hours tomorrow morning.
And as we watch, as the hearse drives up to the nation's Capital, what an historic moment this is. She is the first woman to be honored in such a manner.
With me now is the Reverend Joseph Lowery. He is what many would consider to be the dean of the civil rights movement, one of the co- founders of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference here.
You knew her. This is a woman, an unexpected hero, as you've been telling us before.
REV. JOSEPH LOWERY, CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: It's a healthy moment for the nation. It's a great blessing and honor for Rosa Parks and the movement. But it's also a good moment for the administration, who needs a respite from a pretty rough week. So I'm glad to see this occur for all three.
LIN: President Bush there to honor her by -- in a wreath laying ceremony that is planned.
Reverend, Rosa Parks, tell us who this woman was. She was 42 years old when she was riding that bus one day when a white man came up. And she was expected, by law at that time, to give up her seat to this man. She did not, and she was arrested.
LOWERY: I think one of the things that's so marvelous about this is she was just an ordinary woman whom God chose to do extraordinary things.
LIN: When you say ordinary, I mean, she was a secretary, a book keeper.
LOWERY: Yes, but she didn't occupy -- hold any political office. She didn't head any mass movement. She was an activist within the context of the civil rights organization...
LIN: Because she was a member of the NAACP at the time.
LOWERY: ... which was a wonderful thing. She was a secretary. She was a volunteer. She's conducted voter registration efforts. She was committed to racial justice and -- and to civic participation. But she was such a mild-mannered person that we really didn't expect her to ignite this kind of movement.
But God moves in mysterious ways. And I think it's because of her mild-mannered, and the community rallied around her. "Oh, my God. If this could happen to Rosa Parks, what may happen to those of us who may be a bit more aggressive than she is?" And she -- she sparked a revolution.
LIN: She has. LOWERY: I think God was in the plan, because only God could take a whisper from a gentle woman like Rosa Parks and blow it into a global revolution.
LIN: Because after her arrest, it sparked a 382-day boycott of the Montgomery bus system.
LOWERY: It initiated a new era in civil rights. Prior to the Montgomery bus boycott, we depended largely on the court decisions and legislation to guide our -- our efforts. But here, black folks decided because of Rosa Parks, and no matter what the courts say, no matter what the legislature does or does not say, we ain't going to ride on the back of the bus.
LIN: That was wrong.
LOWERY: That was the new era of self-determination.
LIN: Do you find it interesting and symbolic -- we were just looking at a picture of a bus. They had a symbolic bus follow the motorcade to the nation's Capitol to remind people of, in a sense, what she sacrificed that day. You were saying that, though she paid the same fare as everybody else on that bus, the risk that she took that day I don't think we, in 2005, can fully appreciate what could have happened to her.
LOWERY: No, we don't, because we don't know, you know, what life was like in those days. Everybody -- one of the reasons that the bus boycott -- and boycotts have been tried in other cities. One of the reasons it was effective in Montgomery, in addition to Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, was that every African-American in Montgomery who had ridden the bus, who had a mother or aunt or cousin or uncle who had ridden the bus, had been insulted and felt the bitter sting of racism and racial oppression and drunk from the bitter cup of humiliation.
LIN: That every time they had to give up their seat.
LOWERY: If it were raining, for example, you -- and the bus were crowded, you'd get in the front, put the money in the deposit, get back off the bus in the rain, go around and get in the back of the bus. And if you filled up the bus, if blacks filled up the bus, and a white person got on, you had to get up and move to the back to accommodate another passenger who paid the same fare, simply because of the color of his skin.
LIN: And by doing so, each time that act of relinquishing, it must have left someone feeling like, "I am now bowing and admitting that I am a lesser person and I am not."
LOWERY: Dehumanizing. And Rosa Parks decided she had enough. Fannie Lou Hamer, another fighter in Mississippi, had said she was sick and tired of being sick and tired. And this is what Rosa Parks said, she was sick and tired of being humiliated. She was sick and tired of being forced to confess or admit or cooperate with an act of evil. Here she decided that she would no longer cooperate with evil. She'd withdraw from an evil system and suffer the consequences. And believe me, while those consequences turned out to be an arrest and so forth, it could have meant her death.
LIN: It could have. She could have been killed that day.
LOWERY: She could have been killed.
LIN: They could have dragged her off that bus.
LOWERY: Off the bus. Police could have brutalized her. The Ku Klux Klan. And they left the following year. After the court decision in '56 they left Montgomery because they received so many threats, she and her husband Raymond, and moved to Detroit, where they worked with Congressman Conyers and where she continued to work for racial justice.
She organized the Rosa and Raymond Parks Institute, teaching young people to stand up for their rights and teaching them the history of the movement and how they were endowed by their creator with inalienable rights that they had to fight to protect. And so she never stopped fighting until she became physically disabled.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Tell us, do you recognize any of the faces here as people are greeting one another and getting ready to enter into the Capitol Rotunda?
LOWERY: Let's see. They're moving they're moving so fast, I can't.
LIN: Gary Nurenberg CNN's Gary Nurenberg is standing by outside of the Capitol Rotunda.
Gary, we're taking a look at some of the live pictures here as the motorcade has arrived and people are greeting one another. We do know that there are dignitaries in the audience. President Bush is waiting the arrival of Rosa Parks to lay in honor at the Capitol Rotunda. The governor of Maryland will be there. Actress Cicely Tyson. But thousands of ordinary people are going to be able to line up and pay their respects to this remarkable woman.
LOWERY: Bush Garden (ph) is there, who is the head of the NAACP (ph), the new head of the NAACP (ph), who sponsored the memorial in Montgomery that my wife and I attended today. I see him standing there. I can't quite pick out any of the others at this moment.
LIN: Let's see what Gary has to say.
Gary.
GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we noticed John Conuers (ph), the representative from Michigan in that greeting party earlier today. The congressional leadership is here. John Dingell, the dean of the House of Representatives, said that Rosa Parks is one of America's greatest heros. The congressional leadership is here. As you know, it's that leadership that passed the motion earlier this week, the legislation earlier this week, that allowed her to lie in state.
Carol, you talked about the thousands of people who are lining up on the west front of the Capitol to get in. We met a remarkable family who came here from Maryland, three generations. The mother of a 12- year-old girl brought her 12-year-old girl because she wanted her to be a part of this history. And that mother also brought her aging parents because they live with the remanence of racism and saw part of it go away during their lifetimes.
And those three generations in that one family alone, standing among thousands of others in the crow on the west front of the Capitol, really tells the story of what Rosa Parks was able to accomplish. Some of her contemporaries here to see here this evening. Some of their children who watched the transition, and some of their grandchildren who face a much brighter future because of the defiance that Rosa Parks showed in Montgomery 50 years ago.
Carol, we met that family in line a few minutes ago and hope later this evening to tell you their story here on CNN. But they're representative of the thousands who are here tonight to pay tribute.
And what a tribute it is. She is only the first woman given this honor to lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda. Only the second African-American. The United States clearly tonight paying tribute to the remarkable gains in civil rights brought about because of one woman, on one bus in Montgomery 50 years ago.
LIN: President Bush, as we saw, and Mrs. Bush there waiting. Congressman Melvin Watt, who's the chairman of the congressional black caucus will be present in honoring Rosa Parks, as well as Hilary Shelton, the director of the NAACP Washington bureau.
You can see that it's a cool night. People are quite there. This is not so much a celebration as it is a sense of history. Really, I think people are grasping what it must have been like for this woman back in 1955 to be so brave.
LOWERY: I think there's an air there's an air of reverence that people recognize the special nature of what she did and of what's occurring here today. I think that the Congress needs to be commended for initiating this observance and I congratulate them for it. It does send a spiritual message to the nation that we recognize that the policies and practices of segregation in vouge at that they were wrong and that they violated both the letter (ph) and the spirit of what we were all about in this country.
And we are celebrating the fact that Rosa Parks played a significant role in bringing about a change and bringing us to another level of human relationships. It doesn't mean we're arrived, but it does mean we've reached another plateau and that we can continue to move on up a little higher because of the person like Rosa Parks.
LIN: This is the ultimate acknowledgment of a person's life work and the impact that they have made on history. But how did Rosa Parks feel about her place in history? Did she accept it or was she kind of shy about it? LOWERY: Well, she was a mild, mannered, meek person. I tell you, when my daughter, my youngest daughter Sheryl (ph) got married, she gave her, about 20 some years ago, she gave her a check for $25 as a wedding present. And then my daughter didn't see her again for about 10 months and when she did, Mrs. Parks said, child, why don't you cash the check. I can't balance my checkbook because you haven't cashed that check. And my daughter says, I'm never going to cash that check. A check from Rosa Parks. And Mrs. Parks couldn't perceive . . .
LIN: Really?
LOWERY: Of why my daughter was in awe.
LIN: Really?
LOWERY: That's how mild mannered and unassuming and unpretentious she was.
LIN: But she got the Congressional Medal of Honor.
LOWERY: She did but she took it in stride. And I, knowing Rosa Parks, she'd take this in stride. I think she might if she got excited, got shouted got to shout, it would because this same Congress decides to extend the Voting Rights Act which is going to expire in a couple of years.
LIN: What does that mean? I mean, everybody has the right to vote. So what is the danger?
LOWERY: Well, what is danger, a number of states denied that right to vote and set up all kind of barriers and restrictions against her right to vote. Alabama, for example, where she was had lived and was born, had a questionnaire with 26 questions on it. And some of those questions were ridiculous. How many bubbles in a bar of soap?
And one some registrar would ask, can you recite the Preamble to the Constitution? And one young man who just finished college didn't remember the Preamble but he did remember the Gettysburg Address. So he recited the Gettysburg Address. And when he got through, this government of the people, by the people, and the old registrar said, by, God, he knows the Preamble and he got to register because he faked. B
But that's the kind of thing and pooltype (ph) that the judge here in Atlanta just declared a Georgia legislation passed is another form of pooltype (ph) because it compels people to pay money to buy an IV, a drunken (ph) IV, to cast a vote. Now the government had to get that cleared in the federal courts and in the Justice Department. It's been denied. If the Voting Rights Act is not extended, states can do all kind of things like and don't have to get it cleared in the federal judiciary and other the Justice Department. That's why we think the Voting Rights Act ought to be extended as it is.
LIN: But do you think that Rosa Parks died I know she had dementia at the end of her life but, you know, in a bigger sense, do you think towards the end of her life that she felt satisfied with where black Americans are today and where they can go and the opportunities that are created?
LOWERY: No way. No way.
LIN: Condoleezza Rice, secretary of state.
LOWERY: One person.
LIN: Alberto Gonzalez, Justice Department, attorney general.
LOWERY: One Hispanic. And these are people who really may not represent the rank and file of the people that they represent are supposed to represent. I think tokenism is not the answer. I think what we're talking about is a massive outpouring of rights, constitutional rights. It's not just that we want we're glad to see people and I talk with Dr. Rice, a (INAUDIBLE) brilliant woman who's born in my home state. And I said to her, if you help us get the Voting Rights Act extended without any chicallywoozies (ph), I'll . . .
LIN: Chicallywoozies?
LOWERY: Yes. I'll forgive you for maybe some of the other things we have disagreements on. But we no, Rosa Parks knew. She was down for the last march I think I lead in before I retired as president of NCOC (ph). She came down and spoke at the rally. She knew we'd come a long way but we still have a long, long way to go.
The median income of African-Americans today is still in the 60 some percent of the median income of whites in this country. No, we've got a long way to go. We've come a long way, thank God, and I think tribute to Rosa Parks is an effort by the nation to say, we recognize we've come a long way but we also recognize we have a long way to go.
LIN: That it's not just enough to sit at the front of the bus.
LOWERY: No, no, we have to we've got to talk about who owns the bus and the median income of African-Americans is still around less than two-thirds. And that wealth in this country where African-Americans are concerned, doesn't hardly turn the needle on the steel (ph) as compared to whites in the country. We've got a long way to go.
LIN: A long way to go.
As we watch the honor guard here carry her coffin up the steps of the Capitol building to the Capitol Rotunda. The public has been lining up for hours. There are thousands of people who are waiting to pay their respects tonight. The Rotunda will be open until midnight so that the public can come by and bid their farewells to Rosa Park who died at the age of 92 last Monday.
President Bush, who will be part of a wreath laying ceremony, the Morgan State University Choir is in position and will be singing. And House and Senate leaders will be in position in the Rotunda with several other dignitaries.
And as you're watching, as the casket enters the Rotunda, the choir will be singing inside "The Battle Hymn of the Republic." At least that is the plan. And then family and friends are following the casket up the stairs.
Inside the prayer that will be lead by Dr. Barry Black, the Chaplin of the U.S. Senate. It will be interesting to see what passage he chooses to read to describe or to exemplify this woman's life. And then there will be the presentation of the Senate wreath.
LOWERY: A moving moment. Moving moment. Couldn't happen to a better person.
LIN: See a little girl. A little girl off to the left there standing with her mother or grandmother and family. And I wish I could know what would be going through her mind and what her family would be telling her of what Rosa Parks did for her in her young life so that there would be opportunities available to her.
LOWERY: Well, one of the things we've said, is she sat down so we could stand up. And Rosa Parks will always be remembered for her courage, her willingness to throw her life on the line that the world may see the error in ways of racial oppression.
LIN: Gary Nurenberg standing by outside the Capitol Rotunda.
Gary, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are as we watch the casket make its way up to the Rotunda. The mood outside is completely silent.
NURENBERG: It's very somber here, Carol.
I was listening to your conversation and reminded of a conversation that CNN had with Dorothy Height, an old friend of Rosa Parks, who's the president Ameridus (ph) of the National Council of Negro Women. In an interview with CNN, she says something interesting. I want to quote it directly. Let me refer to my notes. "She said that when the bus driver wanted her to move from her seat, it was as if she could hear a soft voice say, Rosa Parks, you're a child of God and you can make a difference." Height went on to say, "I think she would want to say that there is a lot of work for us to do to make freedom and equality a reality, but remind us that each one of us can made a difference."
When you were talking about what Rosa Parks thought about the progress that's been made, that interview with Dorothy Height came to mind and I wanted to remind you of it as the casket's being carried into the Capitol tonight.
LIN: Good thoughts, indeed, when, Gary, we were talking the Reverend and I were talking about how, you know, in the day-to-day life, in 2005, it's difficult to comprehend what that life must have been like for a black woman to get on the bus, to pay her fare, to sit down and to face the perhaps eminent humiliation that a while person could walk up to her and say, that's my seat. Or even not say a word but just assume because it was the law of the land at the time that she would get up, and as the Reverend was described (ph), perhaps leave through the front door out into the rain and enter through the back and accept that humiliation because it was the law of the United States of America. It's hard to even comprehend today.
NURENBERG: It is, Carol.
You know, we're so fortunate in the business that you and I are in to be able to get to meet people who make history. I had the good fortune to spend part of an afternoon and interview Rosa Parks several years ago. And in person, she is the kindest, gentlest spirit that you could possibly imagine. An absolutely courteous to everyone. Concerned about everyone else in the room and how they're doing, knowing that there are some people who are entering that room who are nervous to meet her, doing everything she can to put them at ease in a very grandmotherly and gentle way.
And she did make you feel at ease. But as you looked into those eyes, you could see steely resolve behind that grandmotherly smile and you knew that this really was the woman you were talking to who was able to stand up to the kind of prejudice and the kind of danger that you were referring to a moment ago. She had that kind of presence. Just one that you could feel when you were with her. And I feel very lucky to have had the chance just to spend that one afternoon and to experience in person the kind of resolve that she really does have.
LIN: The Reverend is nodding here.
LOWERY: And he's very right. And isn't it sad that she and her husband had to leave our hometown because of treats against their . . .
LIN: What kind of threats?
LOWERY: (INAUDIBLE).
LIN: Telephone treats?
LOWERY: Telephone treats. They bombed houses. They bombed Dr. King's home. They bombed Reverend Abernathy's (ph) home and church. And they called her house constantly, threatening her well-being.
LIN: Wouldn't it have been more symbolic if she had stayed? I mean, she had already withstood so much.
LOWERY: Well, you know, she could only one person could only stand so she couldn't get a job. It was very nobody would hire her at the moment. So for their own well-being, Congressman (INAUDIBLE) said to come to Detroit and take a job in his office. And they did. And that's where they organized the Rosa and Raymond Parks Institute that's sought to teach young people about the history of the movement and their future and their right to protest in justice.
LIN: Reverend, let's listen in as the coffin has now been laid in the Rotunda and take in the scene.
(CHOIR SINGING)
LIN: Gary, are we're listening to the Morgan State University Choir. How is it that these particular players were chosen for this service?
NURENBERG: You know, I've been concentrating on what's going to happen here in Washington, Carol, and frankly have to duck that one with you. I can tell you that after the public tomorrow has its final chance to file past the casket, there will be services here in Washington featuring some from Howard University, the traditional black school here in Washington, that's played such an important role in the civil rights movement.
The people of Washington itself have adopted her in their own way and want their own chance to say good-bye in their own churches here in D.C. That happens after she leaves the Capitol tomorrow and before she returns to Detroit. As to why this particular choir was chosen, I'm afraid I have to duck.
LIN: No problem. No problem. We're just enjoying the music.
LOWERY: Well, they're a college there in Baltimore.
LIN: Is that what it is?
LOWERY: Yes. So they would be conveniently located. And the entourage came from Montgomery to Baltimore. And so I suppose the choir was chosen because of their proximity.
LIN: President Bush is going to be laying the wreath.
Gary, what do we expect to happen from here on out?
NURENBERG: Well, Carol, after the president takes part in the official ceremony here in the Capitol, then the doors will open to these thousands of people that we've been telling you about, who have been gathering on the west front of the Capitol since mid afternoon and who have been waiting as the sun goes down and it gets a bit chillier on this October evening, to go through and pay their respects. We're told that the Rotunda is only scheduled to be open until midnight tonight and then re-opened tomorrow morning for people to have a last chance to file by the casket.
But authorities here also said that if you're waiting in line, it is likely that they will not close the doors in your face. And given the number of people that we see standing in line from our vantage point on the west front, it seems to be quite likely that at least until midnight they'll be able to file by and do that. And the crowd is so large I suspect those hours could perhaps be extended.
LIN: All right.
Reverend, Rosa Parks, her legacy even extended to the modern day. I mean there was a group called Outkast that wrote a song called "Rosa Parks" and she sued, or at least, you know, her representatives sued. What was it about? Was it a I don't know what the lyrics are, I only read about the lawsuit itself.
LOWERY: Well, I don't know the lyrics either, except that they used them without her permission according to her agent and those who represented her. I think they finally settled it out of court. I think there was some litigation that was thrown out or she lost, her representatives lost, but then they came back and worked out a settlement. I don't know the details of the settlement but I regret it very much that she was caught up in that controversy. She didn't need that kind of controversy. She had other controversy. Someone attacked her in her apartment in Detroit.
LIN: And that was just a random robbery, wasn't it?
LOWERY: Yes, a random robbery and . . .
LIN: They had no idea who they were breaking into.
LOWERY: As a result of that, she was given a place to stay for the rest of her life without cost. The landlord was touched by her misfortune and she was but up until the end, up until she couldn't travel, she joined us whenever she could, whenever there was an activity that promoted voting rights or protested some racial injustice or that called for new informant opportunities. She stayed interested and active in promoting civil rights and racial justice up until she was physically incapacitated.
LIN: Do you know how she grew up? Much about her childhood?
LOWERY: No. I talk with Mrs. Johnny Carr (ph), who is the president of the Montgomery Pool (ph). They were school mates. And she said she had a rather normal childhood. They played together. They fussed together. They fought together. They played their childish games together. And she was always mild mannered, always very understanding and cooperative and easy to get along with. And she carried that trait on to and that's why it was so moving when this woman, who had never, you know, fought back viciously or fiercely, decided on this bus to stand up to the mighty forces of oppression and repression and persecution and say, I ain't going back.
LIN: How did the word spread that Rosa Parks had been arrested?
LOWERY: Well, she called E.B. Nixon, who headed the NAACP (ph) there, and he called other people. The ministers got a hold of it and they met and organized a boycott. The Montgomery advertiser, the newspaper, heard about the leaflets that were being disseminated around the community. They put one in the paper. And that gave it even wider dissemination.
LIN: And the word spread.
LOWERY: And the boycott began.
LIN: Reverend, let's listen in to the prayer.
LOWERY: Yes, good.
DR. BARRY BLACK, CHAPLAIN, U.S. SENATE: In a better world. May her noble spirt remind us of the power of faithful, small acts, as she is recognized by being the first woman ever to lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda, challenge us to narrow the gap between our crees (ph) and deeds. Remind us of an approaching judgement day when many who are last will be first, and many who are first will be last.
Let Rosa Parks exemplary life inspire us to dare more boldly for freedom in order to transform dark yesterdays into bright tomorrows. We pray this in the name of him who came to give us true freedom. Amen.
LIN: Dark yesterdays into bright tomorrows. I think Rosa Parks would appreciate that.
LOWERY: Yes, she would appreciate it very much. And I am I'm deeply moved that my country, with all of its weaknesses and flaws, has pause here in the midst of busy schedules and controversies about the Supreme Court and health care and unemployment and the war . . .
LIN: And you're seeing some (INAUDIBLE).
LOWERY: Would pause to honor this humble woman. This humble woman.
LIN: A moment of peace with the Senate leaders laying the wreath.
LOWERY: Yes, that's Brother Frist and Brother Reid from the Senate. I don't know who that was in the middle. I didn't get to see his face. Moving moment.
LIN: I think it might have been Senator Ted Stevens.
LOWERY: First woman and the second only the second African- American. I think the first one was a police officer who was killed in the Capitol when someone went on a rampage.
LIN: Yes, the Capitol shooting.
LOWERY: Yes.
LIN: Let's listen in.
REV. DANIEL P. COUGHLIN, CHAPLAIN, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: But her ride home was interrupted. You, Lord God, were with her and watched. The nation stopped to think. She was in charge of her destiny. Now on her final journey, she has been brought to the Rotunda of the Capitol to be honored with prayers and tributes by a grateful nation. As we ponder Rosa Parks and her story, it seems almost necessary at this interruption on her way home to politely ask her permission, then, with the same words once addressed to a bus driver, we might hear her clear, dignified voice say, you may do that.
Lord God, you have called forth profits and apostles in the past. To this day you empower ordinary people to become leaders in their communities. Some seize the moment and create a movement. Mrs. Rosa Parks, a leader in the community of Montgomery, Alabama, took her place on an historic ride. When her moment came, she would not be moved. Relying on the inner strength you gave this courageous and respected woman, the entire community of Montgomery became a vehicle to drive through racial segregation and make democracy work for all Americans. Who in your sight is worthy to claim a seat near her? Who has her kind of integrity? How many, her self-discipline? Lord, you know the (INAUDIBLE) forms prejudice can take in the imagination and the attitudes of your people. Set us free at last that freedom riders may move across this nation and other parts of the world joyfully claiming others as true brothers and sisters of a beloved community.
Tonight, inspired by her life and leadership, as your freed children we say to Mrs. Rosa Parks, ride on, ride on. Ride on in the direction of endless hope to the table of equal justice and eternal peace. Amen.
LIN: That was the prayer by the Reverend Daniel Coughlin. He's the House Chaplin. And now there will be members of the House leadership brining their wreath forward. It's expected to be presented by Roy Blunt, majority leader, and Denny Quier (ph), the minority whip. This wreath to be placed by the Capitol police at the foot of the casket. This will be followed by a prayer and then the presentation of the presidential wreath by President Bush.
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