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CNN Live Sunday
Tracking Terror on Internet; Sudan Lost Boys Reunite
Aired July 09, 2006 - 19:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. "Now in the News," five Americans soldiers are accused in the rape and murder of an Iraqi girl and members of her family. Four soldiers are charged with being involved in the rape and murders, a fifth for not reporting the alleged offenses.
And Iraqi police say gunmen went on a rampage in a predominantly Sunni part of Baghdad, killing at least 42 unarmed people. The gunmen apparently asked to see OD cards before shooting the victims.
And more reports of missiles being fired into Gaza City by the Israeli military. Earlier strikes reportedly left one Palestinian dead and a dozen wounded.
The new Lundberg Survey shows gas prices up nearly 11 cents in the last two weeks. The nationwide average for a gallon of self-serve is now just under $3.
And Italy outlasts France in today's World Cup finals. It went down to the wire, tied. But in overtime penalty kicks and the Italians put the boot to the French, 5-3.
Topping our "Security Watch" tonight, federal agents are online and on the hunt for terrorists. And they're getting results. Sources say they've discovered a plot to bomb New York subway tunnels by keeping an eye on Internet chat rooms.
But as CNN's Octavia Nasr reports, those rooms are turning into a valuable weapon for would-be terrorists.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS (voice-over): A war is being waged online, complete with troops, arsenals and a propaganda machine. The intelligence community refers to it as "online jihad" and warns it is not to be taken lightly.
LAURA MANSFIELD, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: Well, there's documented evidence over the past few years of terror attacks being planned on the Internet, including the Madrid bombings in May 2004, up to and including, possibly, the London bombings.
NASR: Terrorism experts believe it all began here with this chilling video of American contractor Nick Berg, as his cold-blooded beheading was taped and posted on the Internet for all to see.
Thousands of radical Islamist Web sites came into existence since that moment. Some representing specific insurgency groups, others speaking in the name of entire regions, all trumpeting attacks against U.S. forces and their allies, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but everywhere around the world.
Mansfield and other terrorism experts have been trying to find out who is behind this propaganda.
MANSFIELD: What appears to be happening, especially with the videos, is you have an individual who takes the video, he processes it on commercially available video editing software, a lot of it is available even as freeware, and then they post it on the Internet on the message boards. They use free file-sharing services, and it spreads almost virally.
NASR: From messages of al Qaeda leader to the world, to taped improvised explosive device attacks on U.S. troops and Iraqi forces, to suicide bombings of mosques and marketplaces, an abundance of video showing details of attacks or glorifying the suicide bombers, hailing them as martyrs, can be easily found online.
A war is being waged, and its main weapons are a camera, a microphone and a computer. It is simply called, "jihad online."
Octavia Nasr, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: More now on the terror groups recruiting and going online with this messages. Rebecca Givener-Forbes joins us now from Washington, she's an intelligence analyst at the Terrorism Research Center.
Rebecca, you actually have monitored some of these sites, actually read and seen the content of them. Correct?
REBECCA GIVENER-FORBES, TERRORISM RESEARCH CENTER: Correct, Carol.
LIN: What's the most shocking or interesting thing you have actually seen or read?
GIVENER-FORBES: Well, I think what's most interesting about this whole movement is that they've really created a virtual world online. And in this world, whose members number in the thousands, every one agrees that terrorism is the answer. But people meet online to discuss how best to attack their enemies, the tools and the techniques, and who to attack first and where.
LIN: But isn't it like -- you know, isn't like a common criminal just posting on a public bulletin board the next crime that he's about to commit? Doesn't this actually help law enforcement catch them?
GIVENER-FORBES: Well, in a lot of cases when there is planning going on, they're not very specific in who they're going to attack next and exactly how. They are more likely to exchange advice, explosive-making instructions, bomb-making recipes, things of that nature.
But you're right, it does provide a unique opportunity for law enforcement and intelligence to interdict terrorists carrying out activities online if they can evolve their methods appropriately to recognize that terrorists are now doing many of the things that they used to do in the physical world in the cyber world.
LIN: There is a guy out there, his online name is arhavi007 (ph). You're familiar with him. Right?
GIVENER-FORBES: Correct.
LIN: He's sort of like the communications director for al Qaeda. It seems like he organizes files, he's sort of the main conduit allowing al Qaeda to get its message out, to talk about the next attack. What do you make of this character and why is it so difficult to find him?
GIVENER-FORBES: Well, as I understand it, he's already been arrested. But he was a very important figure at one time. What he did was he -- without ever meeting with any of the al Qaeda leaders, he taught himself the technical expertise to become a major architect of al Qaeda's online presence. He was one of the people who was responsible for keeping the world of radical Islam online up and running.
LIN: So where does this go, Rebecca? Because it is terrifying to think that in a split second of just hitting the send button that somebody could learn how to build a bomb or attack a major city.
GIVENER-FORBES: Yes, that's what we're going to be faced with going through the next phase in the war on terror. Al Qaeda has really identified three fronts that they are using to try to fuel their expansion. One of those is Iraq. The second is Afghanistan. And the third is the Internet.
There is a massive effort to transfer all of the knowledge that used to be exchanged in terrorist training camps online, to put it online so that individuals around the world can access it and use it to carry out plots.
Now that said, at this point the materials available online are not quite as sophisticated as, say, the instruction that you could receive in a hands-on fashion in a terrorist training camp.
However, those materials are being disseminated to many, many more people than previously, and so what it leads to is a phase in the global war on terror where we will see more plots, an increasing number of plots, but plots that are more amateurish in nature.
LIN: All right. And hopefully plots that can be squashed before they're ever committed. Rebecca, thank you very much.
GIVENER-FORBES: Thank you for having me on the program, Carol.
LIN: CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. So stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.
Now in case you missed it, let's check some of the highlights from the Sunday morning talk shows. On CNN's "LATE EDITION," two U.S. senators reacted to suggestions by Iraq's prime minister that his government should start prosecuting U.S. soldiers accused of atrocities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: Listen. I would not trust the Iraqi government to try any American citizen. They can't even control their own country. We've tried to help them do it. They can't even stop the violence, one Iraqi sect against another. And now we're going to hand over our military? I have full confidence that our military will punish those responsible.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: And I agree with Barbara in this sense. We have a status of forces agreement with the Iraqi government. We have status of forces agreement all over the world with host countries where our people will be tried by us if they commit crimes. We have it in Germany, we have it in Japan, we have it all over the world, so it's nothing new, it's nothing unusual for Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: On CBS' "Face the Nation," there were strong opinions about North Korea's nuclear capabilities and intentions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: I'm very worried about this issue in North Korea. I'm not sure yet of the capability, but we know that they have 8,000 spent fuel cells which they have developed of plutonium. We know that they have at least six, or maybe more, bombs. We know that they need hard currency. We know that al Qaeda wants to get their hands on this kind of technology. It's very troubling to me.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The problem is, will the North Koreans comply with the commitments that they made in the past? We made a deal in '94 which I vehemently opposed which gave them all kinds of good things and they rewarded that with violations of the agreements that they made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: In that agreement, North Korea agreed to freeze its nuclear program in exchange for several incentives, including light water nuclear reactors. Now the chief negotiator of the deal defended it on NBC's "Meet the Press."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM RUSSERT, HOST, "MEET THE PRESS": Ambassador Gallucci, you negotiated that '94 agreement, the North Koreans stopped processing in one plant, if you will, but we later found out that at the same time they were making uranium in another plant.
ROBERT GALLUCCI, DEAN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Not actually, no, that's not what we found out. What happened was we did do a deal. We did stop a plutonium-based nuclear weapons program. We made sure that 8,000 fuel rods containing around 30 kilograms, enough for five nuclear weapons worth of plutonium, stayed in a storage pond. And a deal would have had the North Koreans end their nuclear weapons program. We think they starred cheating in the late '90s by getting some gas centrifuge equipment from Pakistan.
RUSSERT: You can have all the agreements you want. If they're going to cheat what good are they?
GALLUCCI: Madeleine Albright essentially had it correct, in my view. You make a deal. Nobody did that deal in '94 thinking we're trusting North Koreans. We had some transparency, a measure of it, and you verify. We caught them cheating. You might make another deal. I think you should. You ask the question, you make another deal, are you better off with the deal or you better off without it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Remember every Sunday at 7 Eastern, CNN is going to will bring you the best headlines from the Sunday talk shows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frankly, I find it very empowering to be able to do this on my own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: This device is pretty incredible. It gives the blind a chance to see. We're going to show you how it works in about five minutes.
SHANNON COOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, I'm Shannon Cook. She's lost weight and regained her diva status. I'll have the skinny on this soprano when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well, we've got the lighter side of global headlines this weekend. Shannon Cook has been investigating the funniest stories and the most interesting ones -- Shannon.
COOK: Hey there. Going to talk to you about an opera singer. You might have thought that being an opera singer is one vocation that actually allows you to be a little on the plump side? But not so for American soprano Deborah Voigt. In 2004 she was dropped from a production at London's Royal Opera House, reportedly because she was overweight. So what did she do? Well, she underwent stomach surgery. She shed 135 pounds, and voila, there she is, the slimmed-down soprano has been rehired for the job. But her spokesperson does want to point out that she underwent the surgery for health reasons, not because of the firing. OK. Now in Poland, a new hire puts a double act into power. The Kaczinskis are identical twins, Lech Kaczinksi on the left is Poland's president, and his brother Jaroslaw will be sworn in as prime minister on Monday. This marks the first time ever that identical twins will rule at the same time. The twins pretty well known in Poland. They actually came to fame as child actors. They starred in a hit movie in 1962 called "The Two Who Stole the Moon."
Flower power takes hold in Indonesia. Visitors to the botanical gardens in West Java caught a rare glimpse of this giant beauty. It's called the Titan Arum flower. It is pretty difficult to catch in full bloom. It only blooms once every four years. And it blossoms -- the blossoms sort of only stay open for about 24 to 48 hours. And, Carol, that's probably a good thing because the aroma that this flower lets off, very stinky.
LIN: Yes, very stinky, very stinky indeed. All right. Thanks, Shannon.
COOK: Thank you.
LIN: Reading for the blind without Braille. We are going to show you a new device giving new independence to the visually impaired.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: After surviving the wholesale slaughter of their families in Sudan, many refugee children fled to the United States somewhere in the documentary "The Lost Boys of Sudan." Well, this week was a reunion for many of them, and they have a new mission that they're sharing with CNN's Gary Nurenberg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The miracle is that they are still alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We go a long way back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A long way back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. So we have memories of the past.
NURENBERG: Horrible memories of a civil war in Sudan that in the late 1980s robbed them of their childhood.
ANGELO MAKER, LOST BOY: I was 7 years old back in 1987. My mom was killed and my two brothers in front of me when I was 7 years old. You see, I think my mom was cooking when my two brothers were playing with me. And they just started shooting. They killed my two brothers on the spot.
NURENBERG: Elizabeth Anok Koch was only 5.
ELIZABETH ANOK KOCH, LOST GIRL: The houses were being burned and there was shooting. And I was sleeping. So when I just get up, I just run away to save my life. I don't even know where I was going. Some of the women get raped. Some of the small girls get raped, get to be slaves.
NURENBERG: Survivors of the government raids on southern villages made their way to refugee camps in Ethiopia and near the Kenyan border, hundreds of miles on foot, hiding from predators human and wild.
MAKER: Some of my friends that I was working with have been eaten lions, by crocodiles and by some wild animals.
NURENBERG: For thousands of children, it was a death march.
JOHN PRENDERGAST, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: They were chased and hunted like animals across the entirety of Sudan.
NURENBERG: Those who made it to the camps, lived in them for years. In 2001, the United States agreed to resettle 3,700 of the young adults in several dozen American cities. It is those survivors who met this weekend to talk about rebuilding their country.
James Garang is trying to become a doctor.
JAMES GARANG, LOST BOY: I have a responsibility to make a difference in my country, be able to go to school and be able to go back home and apply these (ph) skills (ph) or realization that I have here and be able to help the people out.
NURENBERG: And so many plan to return, survivors who lost a childhood, adults who have found a mission.
Gary Nurenberg, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: James Garang and Angelo Maker are joining us now from Virginia Beach, Virginia.
I am so enthralled, so proud of the two of you for telling your story. Let me begin with you, James. What do you think it's going to be like for you if you do go back to Sudan?
GARANG: Well, I think the things that changed since I left and I believe once I get what I want to get in America, a special education, I'll be able to go back home and I know it's been a big change since I left, so I really believe it's going to be -- look different but I believe that things will be fine with me when I go back home, which I definitely want to do.
LIN: James, I know that telling your story is difficult for you. What is your last memory of Sudan?
GARANG: Right. What happened was when my family was attacked I was 6 years old. And up to date, I've never forgot that. And it's been a horrible memory for me, because at 6 years old, child, watching his parents killed or being executed to death is something that nobody can forget in his life.
LIN: The two of you, James, Angelo, I hear you're inseparable. The best of friends. Is that true, Angelo?
MAKER: The question again?
LIN: That the two of you are best friends.
MAKER: Yes.
LIN: You share a story that I think few can tell together. You yourself, you're missing teeth in the front of your mouth. Right? Your lower teeth.
MAKER: Exactly.
LIN: The teeth that your own mother pulled from your mouth because she didn't want you to ever be used as a slave. Is that true?
MAKER: Yes, it is. Pulling the teeth out is a part of the (INAUDIBLE) culture and also it will emphasize that when the slavery took place -- for the Arab to slave children, they should be able to identify the children when they sell them out. Yes.
LIN: Angelo, so for yourself, I'm wondering, how do you describe your ability to rise above your own personal tragedy? How is it that you have survived?
MAKER: It's something that I cannot tell how did I make it. I can say God himself who got me to go through that. At 7 years, a child cannot walk more than a thousand miles and survive. I don't know how did I make it, but I think it is God himself who helped me and made me do that.
LIN: James, for yourself, what do you think was about you that made you a survivor?
GARANG: Well, this is a very difficult question that any person can answer. But, I will try the best I can to answer this question. Actually, it was not -- I didn't make anything that I survived by my own. But what I do know was when my parents were killed, when they were buried, I knew that they were dead, so now I was on my own, and the next thing I know, life will continue without them. But how was not something I can tell. But like Angelo say, God made it and especially for me, I will always say God made it for me.
LIN: So proud of the both of you, James, Angelo, the best of luck to you both. Thank you.
GARANG: My pleasure. Thank you.
MAKER: Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try being blind and just not having the opportunity to read these things. And I think you will see what I mean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: A new device helps the blind hear what others see.
And don't forget tonight's special, in 10 minutes, "Under Cover Secret State." A special look inside North Korea. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: In this week's "Leading Edge" segment, the blind reader. It doesn't read Braille, but it can read fine print, opening up a whole new world for those who cannot see. Chris Heinbaugh with affiliate WFAA shows us how it works.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS HEINBAUGH, WFAA REPORTER (voice-over): Signs, words, messages. Our eyes take it in, and our brains process. Jim Gaschle (ph) never sees it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's something being communicated to you visually almost every time you turn around. Well, blind people miss that.
HEINBAUGH: But a new device, the Blind Reader, is opening Gaschle's eyes, at least a bit. A hand-held computer and camera, it captures images, processes the text, reads it back.
COMPUTER VOICE: The Supreme Court's redistricting ruling on Wednesday means more of the same.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It said they're talking about redistricting.
HEINBAUGH: For Gaschle, blind since birth, the Blind Reader represents independence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's revolutionary. That's why we say the revolution is here.
HEINBAUGH: Browsing a newsstand, Gaschle could never do that before.
COMPUTER VOICE: Chicago showdown. Extra. Extra.
HEINBAUGH: Reading a business card was unheard of.
COMPUTER VOICE: Chris Heinbaugh, senior reporter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It read your name, it said you are a reporter.
HEINBAUGH: And ordering from a menu meant asking someone to read it. Not anymore.
COMPUTER VOICE: Homemade ravioli. Meat or cheese.
HEINBAUGH: Simple, everyday things, those who can see take for granted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frankly, I find it very empowering to be able to do this on my own.
HEINBAUGH: For the sighted, the $3,500 device may seem expensive. Gaschle thinks it's priceless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try being blind and just not having the opportunity to read these things and I think you will a he see what I mean.
HEINBAUGH: But the device has its limits. Right now it is just a document reader. Odd colors, unusual text, large signs do not register. But Gaschle says some day they will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the future. It is a good example of what we want to do.
HEINBAUGH: As the reader evolves, more labels, signs, even faces will come into focus, opening a new world to those who never saw what they were missing.
Chris Heinbaugh, Channel 8 News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Up next, "CNN PRESENTS" is "Under Cover in the Secret State." A Korean-American journalist shows what it's like living in Kim Jong-Il's North Korea.
And then President Bush and the first lady sit down for an exclusive interview with Larry King. That's at 9 Eastern.
And from Cher to President Bush. Baby Boomers aren't slowing down. So is 60 the new 40? That's what I'll be talking to Suzanne Somers about tonight at 10 Eastern.
The hour's headlines when we come back and then "CNN PRESENTS."
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