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CNN Live Sunday

John Karr's Stint in Thailand; Snipers Open Fire on Baghdad Streets; Saddam's Second Trial

Aired August 20, 2006 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN LIVE SUNDAY, and I'm Carol Lin.
Straight ahead in this hour, mayhem at the Bangkok airport as murder suspect John Mark Karr boards a plane for Los Angeles. We are going to have new details on his -- what his fellow passengers are thinking about spending the day with him.

Plus, snipers open fire on Shiite pilgrims in Baghdad, and more than 30 people are dead, hundreds injured.

First, though, we are going to look at some other stories making news right now.

The family of an American journalist, Steve Centanni, are hoping that their televised statement on Al-Jazeera frees the FOX News reporter. They pleaded for the kidnappers in Gaza to please release him and his photographer. Both men were snatched Monday. Usually reporters are freed in a matter of hours, but so far no one has come forward with either ransom demands or claims of responsibility.

You're going to hear the family's comments in just a few minutes.

And another tremor in the shaky Mideast cease-fire that is nearly a week old. Israel is now saying it will not allow any Lebanese troops near its border without accompanying U.N. forces.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah's biggest supporter is showing off its military might. Iran test-fired 10 reportedly new missiles, and yesterday the Iranians held war games.

We're going to have more on this story in the next half-hour.

Those are the headlines, but this is our top story. The man who virtually confessed to killing JonBenet Ramsey sat in business class on an airplane back to the United States, sipping champagne and eating prawns. John Mark Karr is due to land in Los Angeles around midnight Eastern.

How long he'll remain in California is still not clear. He will eventually end up in Boulder, Colorado, where JonBenet was killed.

And right now on board his flight, Karr is accompanied by United States officials, including a member of the Department of Homeland Security and a Boulder police investigator. A significant press contingent is on the plane as well, including our very own Drew Griffin.

CNN's Atika Shubert has also learned new details about John Karr's stint in Thailand. We now know what he was doing in Bangkok, where he was going and who he was calling.

Here's her report from Bangkok.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Murder suspect John Mark Karr was escorted out of Thailand's immigration detention center to the flash of cameras and a barrage of questions from reporters. He answered none of them. With a blank expression on his face, officials lead him to a waiting car.

Arriving at the airport, the scene was a media frenzy as Karr was pushed through to check-in and immigration. He is flying business class on a Thai Airways flight bound for Los Angeles. But even as Karr leaves Thailand, many questions remain. What was he doing here for the last two years?

He lived a lonely life on the ninth floor of this Bangkok guest house, staff and neighbors say, and was never seen with anyone. CNN obtained a copy of his hotel bill with several phone numbers. Among the calls, a tour agency that says he traveled to Cambodia and a medical clinic specializing in cosmetic surgery, including sex change operations. Doctors there say Karr had several appointments but refused to divulge what treatments he received.

Karr taught in at least two Bangkok international schools for several weeks. Both refused to hire him full-time. One reported inappropriate behavior with young girls. Another said he was too intimidating to his students.

CNN also obtained a copy of his application to another school that declined to hire him. According to a school official that interviewed him for the job, Karr seemed "overly eger to work with elementary schoolgirls, refusing any supervision or assistance in the classroom." This school official also told CNN Karr sent the school a series of pornographic and sexually explicit e-mails.

Once in detention, Karr was monitored 24 hours a day by English- speaking guards. He ate little, only asking for the occasional bottle of water. Immigration officials say he passed the days watching television, including news reports of his arrest, and reading one book, "The Secret Garden," a children's story about an orphaned young girl who goes to live with her reclusive uncle in the English countryside.

(on camera): This detention center was John Mark Karr's home for the last four days. Immigration officials tell us he made one last request before leaving. He said he wanted to dress well, asking for a silk shirt and tie. He told them he wanted to be dressed like a schoolteacher for his final departure.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Bangkok. (END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Now imagine being a passenger on that plane from Bangkok. Well, you're going to hear from some of them coming up in just a few minutes.

Plus, stay with CNN for extensive coverage of the Karr investigation. We are going to have live reports throughout the evening.

(SCREAMING)

That is what it sounded like. A peaceful pilgrimage to a holy shrine has people screaming rather than praying. Another slaughter where Shia pilgrims went to pray. Snipers opened fire on the streets of Baghdad and at least 20 people were killed, more than 300 others were wounded.

Our Michael Holmes reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Violence had been expected and insurgents obliged. Gunfire and panic. Hundreds of thousands of Shiite pilgrims marched on the streets of northern and central Baghdad Sunday to mark the anniversary of the death of the revered 18th century imam, Moussa al-Kadhim.

Last year, rumors of a suicide bomber in the crowd sparked a stampede that killed nearly a thousand people. This time the threat was no rumor. Despite high security and a total vehicle ban, gunmen struck from at least half a dozen locations, many firing on the crowd from rooftops and inside houses, even from a cemetery.

U.S. helicopters were in the air, but ground troops stayed back, leaving security to Iraqi forces and, in some cases, Shia militiamen who fought insurgents in often prolonged gun battles. Among the dead, some of those militiamen and several insurgents. Several police officers among the wounded. But the pilgrims were determined to proceed, and by the time they had reached their destination, the biggest Shia mosque in Baghdad, many of their fellow marchers were dead, hundreds wounded.

Violence had been anticipated by authorities in part because the Shia march wound its way through several Sunni neighborhoods, and that's where most of the ambushes took place.

(on camera): The march took place during a major U.S.-Iraqi security operation aimed at curbing Shia-Sunni violence, as well as attacks by foreign fighters. But at the end of the day, the toll of dead Iraqis had risen, yet again.

Michael Holmes, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: The man who once led Iraq is still on trial. We are still waiting for the verdict on whether Saddam Hussein was responsible for killing nearly 150 Shiites, but he goes on trial for a second time tomorrow.

Now, the specifics are gruesome regarding that dinnertime that turned into death. Thousands of Kurds killed by mustard gas. The survivors say it was ordered by Saddam Hussein.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The cemetery near the village of Swasnan (ph) in Iraqi Kurdistan is a peaceful place. Grave markers carved by local stoners shaded by old, leafy trees.

For the last 16 years, Gheidan Mahid has visited the cemetery every two weeks. Six of her relatives are buried here.

GHEIDAN MAHID, FAMILY KILLED IN GAS ATTACK (through translator): This is my husband Atima's (ph) grave. This is my daughter Asay's (ph) grave. This is my other daughter Gajal's (ph) grave. This is my son-in-law's grave, and the other two graves are his parents.

WHITBECK: They all died the same day, March 22, 1988, killed by the mustard gas and sarin, which prosecutors say Saddam Hussein ordered unleashed on some 2,000 villages in Kurdistan. Part of the campaign of ethnic cleansing codenamed Al-Anfal, The Spoils.

Just down the road in Swasnan (ph), Mohammed Abdullah keeps the photos of the 13 members of his family he lost on that day. He remembers the attack as if it were yesterday.

MOHAMMED ABDULLAH, FAMILY KILLED IN GAS ATTACK (through translator): Two hours before sunset a plane came over this mountain and it hovered around the village for 30 minutes. During dinnertime, this village was attacked by rockets. I was at my sister's house at the time. I still remember how women and children were horrified and how they were screaming.

WHITBECK: Mohammed was saved that day because he was upwind of the area where the gas was dropped, but he was condemned to relive time and again the nightmare of what he saw.

As Saddam Hussein and his top Ba'ath Party officials and military commanders face trial for the Al-Anfal campaign, some of the survivors will testify, and Mohammed hopes the trial will somehow bring him peace.

ABDULLAH (through translator): I'm happy with the trial. Not only me, but all Kurdish people are happy to see Saddam go through this trial. We're all ready to be witnesses against Saddam in this trial. WHITBECK (on camera): The group Human Rights Watch says over 100,000 people died during the attacks which lasted several weeks. Saddam Hussein and his officers are accused of being the first government ever to use chemical weapons against its own people.

(voice over): The Kurdish survivors say they think this second trial for Saddam Hussein is a luxury he doesn't deserve.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He should have been executed the day he was captured because he did many horrible things in his life.

WHITBECK: Saddam Hussein already faces a death sentence if he's convicted of crimes against humanity in his first trial. He faces the same penalty if found guilty in this one.

Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Our in-depth coverage of Saddam Hussein's new trial begins tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on "AMERICAN MORNING" and continues throughout day right here on CNN.

Now, speaking of war crimes, were some committed in Lebanon and northern Israel? Jim Clancy has a report straight ahead.

And a plea from the family of a FOX News reporter kidnapped in Gaza. We are going to hear that emotional request.

And just how secure are U.S. planes now that you are not taking your makeup and hair gel? That discussion in about 20 minutes.

You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Crisis in the Middle East. At a quarter past the hour, here is what we know.

Israel says it won't allow Lebanese troops near its border unless they are accompanied by U.N. forces. Now, those troops are not expected in the area until late this week.

And U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan says an Israeli raid into Lebanon violated the cease-fire. Israel says the raid was aimed at preventing Iran and Syria from rearming Hezbollah.

The Lebanese prime minister is vowing to crush any attempt on the Lebanese side of the border to break the truce.

Now, during the month-long war, a top U.N. official warned war crimes could have been committed in both Lebanon and northern Israel. The guns have fallen silent, but the war crime charges are only getting louder.

Here's CNN's Jim Clancy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The month-long war between Israel and Hezbollah will go down in the books as a conflict that killed more children than combatants, according to the U.N. Most of the civilian casualties and most of the destruction of civilian infrastructure came in Israeli air strikes on Lebanon, but Hezbollah rocket attacks were indiscriminate. Israelis, too, felt the pain and terror of being targets.

(on camera): This conflict has been singularly brutal on civilians. It doesn't matter whether you're in Haifa or here in Beirut. When you look at the collapsed apartment blocks or count the casualties, a single question keeps recurring, washing over you. Why isn't anyone up for war crimes charges for all of this?

(voice over): As more civilian casualties are uncovered on the battlefield in southern Lebanon, human rights groups and individual activists vow to investigate both sides.

NADIM HOURY, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH INVESTIGATOR: We're not mincing our words on both sides here. Firing indiscriminate attacks on Israeli cities amounts to a war crime. There is no doubt about it. The point we're trying to make is, also, the IDF indiscriminate attacks on Lebanese civilians also amounts to a war crime.

CLANCY: Israel says it warned civilians off the likely battlefield and maintained throughout the conflict that Hezbollah was using civilians as human shields.

GHASSAN MOUKHEIBAR, LEBANESE PARLIAMENT MEMBER: What we need here is a real determined will of the international community to say truly, no more, and for everybody. We don't make exceptions for Israel.

CLANCY (on camera): And Hezbollah?

MOUKHEIBAR: Including Hezbollah. Why not? If they're found guilty, let them be prosecuted, but it will be up to the Israelis to do it. But no more crimes. And let's start with the big criminals that are the Israelis. It is so (INAUDIBLE).

CLANCY (voice over): Human rights watch has already published a report about Israel's military campaign.

HOURY: We studied 20 case studies of attacks on homes and on convoys in southern Lebanon, and what we found in those cases, that Israel was failing systematically to distinguish between civilians and combatants. And the systematic failure we could not explain by blaming it on mistakes, we could not explain it by blaming it on Hezbollah practices. These are grave violations of the Geneva Conventions and they amount to war crimes.

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN: The accusation that Israel deliberately targeted civilians is simply false. It's not true. Israel was as surgical as we could be under difficult circumstances. We don't see the Lebanese people as our enemy.

CLANCY: Bringing charges could be tricky. If Lebanon asks the international criminal court to prosecute Israelis for war crimes, its own citizens, like Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah, automatically become vulnerable. Israel, too, could fire charges but would open up its politicians and military to prosecution.

MOUKHEIBAR: If you kill one individual person, this is prosecuted in the court. If you kill a thousand, some generals think that you can get away with it. I say no more.

CLANCY: But when it is in neither side's interest to take their complaints to a world court, maybe the war that killed more children than combatants is destined to be fought all over again.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: In Gaza, a kidnapping of an American journalist, and now his family pleading for his life. The brother of FOX News reporter Steve Centanni made a plea for his release on Al-Jazeera television. Centanni's two sisters also appeared on the tape.

Centanni and New Zealand cameramen Olaf Wiig were captured by masked gunmen six days ago and no one has claimed responsibility for the kidnapping.

FOX News has asked CNN to air the plea from Centanni's family in an effort to help with the journalist's release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN CENTANNI, STEVE CENTANNI'S BROTHER: Our brother Steve Centanni was kidnapped on August 14th, last Monday. I would like his captors to know that Steve is an honorable man who always tries to do what is right. Steve has strong respect for the Palestinian people and their culture.

Steve was in Gaza with Olaf Wiig to report the truth. He is far more valuable to the Palestinian people free as a journalist than as a captive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The plea is also going to air on CNN International to increase the chances that it is seen by the kidnappers. A similar tape was made by Wiig's wife a few days ago. Palestinian officials have ordered security agencies to search for the kidnapped journalist.

Now, as we have told you, John Mark Karr is on his way back to the United States. Our Stan Grant talked with some of Karr's fellow passengers, and we're going to have that report a little later.

But first, CNN's Larry Smith with the latest on Tiger versus the rest of the golf world -- Larry. LARRY SMITH, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Tiger Woods is trying to close things out at the PGA championship, but I'll tell you how actually it's Tiger Woods trying to outdo Tiger Woods.

That's coming up when CNN LIVE SUNDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Investigators who found bone fragments in a Missouri back yard are still searching for more. Authorities say the bodies of up to six people may have been dumped on the property in Cass County. Now, this might be a drug-related crime.

And a disturbing attack in Florida. A teacher's aide was allegedly beat up by a 6-year-old. The boy had an argument with another kid and was leaving the playground Friday when the aide tried to stop him. He allegedly head-butted and kicked her. No charges expected, but police say the boy needs counseling.

Now, peace activist Cindy Sheehan wants Karl Rove tried for treason. She was among more than 50 protesters who disrupted a Texas fund-raiser yesterday where Rove was speaking. Sheehan argues that Rove, the president's top adviser, planned the Iraq war where her son was killed.

Now, 60 may be the new 40, but that doesn't make Bill Clinton happy. He says he hates being old. The former president turned 60 yesterday. And these pictures are of him celebrating his birthday with his wife and daughter.

Now, at this hour, Tiger Woods is writing another chapter in the annals of golf lore. CNN's Larry King standing -- Larry Smith. Larry King? Boy, that's a leap there. Standing by for us at the PGA championship in Medinah, Illinois -- Larry, I just figure you have all the personality, you've got all the names.

SMITH: But not the suspenders.

LIN: Not yet.

SMITH: What are you going to do? I'm here by myself, no guest sitting next to me to ask questions. But, you know, in a few -- in a couple of hours I'll be talking to Tiger Woods about his 12th major victory, because he is getting close to that now.

Tiger Woods 19 under par, with three holes to go here as he closes out what has been simply a spectacular performance this week here at Medinah. He will become the first golfer ever to win the PGA championship at the same course twice, also the first golfer to win the British Open and the PGA championship in the same year twice.

As he closes in again on a five-shot victory, it's his lead right now as he is closing in on this win -- Carol.

LIN: Larry, Tiger's had a pretty tremendous career, but he's been pretty hot on this latest run. Is this the best stretch he's ever had as a professional?

SMITH: Well, not quite. You have to wonder, though, after missing the cut at the U.S. Open in June, after his first tournament after the death of his father back in early May, he has been on a tear. Winning the British Open, another major last month, following up on the one at the Buick Open.

And now keep in mind that it was back in 1999 and 2000 that he won five out of six majors and was the only golfer ever at that time in golf history to have held all four major titles at once. He's already halfway toward what's being called a Tiger slam of holding all four now, having the British and the PGA. So certainly not his hottest stretch yet, but right now certainly playing his best golf since that time several years ago.

LIN: All right. Well, if Tiger wins today, it's going to be his 12th major championship. Jack Nicklaus had 18 and Tiger has said that that record is his goal. So might he be shooting kind of low?

SMITH: Well, that's the question right now, is that he's only six away and he'll be 31 in December. So he'll be that age when he ges to Augusta to try to win another Masters green jacket next April.

There's one number -- some numbers I want to show you very quickly. Tiger, in his first decade on the tour, has won 11, soon to be 12 majors. That's a higher percentage than Jack Nicklaus won in his first 10 years on tour. He won only nine out of his first 40.

So, certainly Tiger, if he wins one per year in the next 19 years -- and certainly that's not out of question -- he could turn 40 years old, already end in 20s in terms of majors. And who knows where it could go from there. Twenty-five would certainly not be out of the question for Tiger.

LIN: Amazing. All right.

Thanks very much, Larry Smith. Have fun out there.

SMITH: OK. Thanks.

LIN: Now, coming up...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These are unit load devices that will be loaded into the bottom of a plane. We're standing outside O'Hare Airport. This is where a federal airline official brought us because of the concern of safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: ... Drew Griffin goes where millions of tons of cargo are loaded onto passenger planes. Find out how much of that cargo actually gets inspected.

And hear what some of the passengers say about being on the same flight with John Mark Karr.

You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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