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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump Blames Ukraine Again For Russia's Invasion; Moscow Ramps Up Attacks On Ukraine; Bukele Says He Can't Return Kilmar Abrego Garcia; U.S. Tariff Turmoil; Trump Team Gives Mixed Messages On Tariff Exemptions; U.S. And Iran Hold 'Constructive' First Round Of Nuclear Talks; Judge Denies Bail For Man Accused Of Setting Fire At Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro's Residence; Katy Perry Launches Into Space With All-Female Crew On Blue Origin Rocket; Vance Fumbles Ohio State's Football Championship Trophy. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired April 14, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching "The
Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Donald Trump blames Ukraine once again for Russia's ongoing invasion. Dozens are killed by Russian strikes in the Ukrainian
City of Sumy. U.S. president and president of El Salvador make it clear, a man the U.S. mistakenly deported to a Central American prison will not be
returned. And Katy Perry kisses the ground as she returns from an all- female space tourism trip with Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin.
We do begin with U.S. President Donald Trump once again, blaming Ukraine for Russia's war on its own country, while commenting on one of Russia's
deadliest attacks in recent years. Ukrainian officials say a Russian strike killed at least 35 people. Russia allegedly used cluster munitions to
maximize civilian casualties. The missiles hit while people were attending church services for Palm Sunday. More than a hundred people were wounded.
Russia followed with other attacks in the regions of Donetsk, Kharkiv and Kherson. Fred Pleitgen has this report. I do want to warn our viewers, some
of what you are about to watch is sadly disturbing
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sumy Ukraine, Palm Sunday, shortly after 10:00 a.m. As folks were heading
to mass, two missiles struck, killing, and wounding score.
We live in the city center, this eyewitness says, there is no military base. There are no soldiers here. It is simply a genocide. It is genocide.
After the explosions, mass carnage, first responders, trying to help any survivors. Ukrainian officials said preliminary information indicates
Russia used a missile with a warhead pact with cluster munitions weapons designed to harm people in a wide area. Ukraine's president livid.
Only filthy scoundrels can act like this, he said. Today, many state leaders, diplomats, regular people with big hearts expressed their sympathy
towards Ukraine. They condemned the Russian attack.
But while many world leaders denounced the attack, from President Donald Trump, a muted response.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Oh, I think it was terrible. And I was told they made a mistake. But I think it's a horrible thing. I think the whole
war is a horrible thing.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): As mourners gathered in Sumy, laying flowers for the many victims, Moscow claims its army does not go after civilians and was
instead targeting a high-level military meeting.
There was another meeting of Ukrainian military leaders with their Western colleagues, the foreign minister says, who were either masquerading as
mercenaries or I don't know who. There are NATO servicemen there, and they are in direct control.
All this as the fighting on the frontlines remains as brutal as ever. Russia claiming its forces continue to make steady progress, while
President Trump's diplomatic efforts to broker a ceasefire appear to have hit a roadblock.
Unclear if any progress was made when Trump envoy Steve Witkoff met Russian leader of Vladimir Putin on Friday. The Kremlin downplaying expectation.
The whole journey consists of small steps to recreate an atmosphere of at least minimal trust, the Kremlin spokesman says, to strengthen this mutual
trust. But the Ukrainians say they are losing faith in the Trump administration.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I believe sadly, Russian narratives are prevailing in the U.S. How is it possible to
witness our losses and our suffering to understand what the Russians are doing and to still believe that they are not the aggressors, that they did
not start this war?
[18:05:00]
PLEITGEN (voice-over): And there are few signs the war could end soon. Just hours after the attack in Sumy, drone struck the port town Odessa, wounding
several people and causing major damage to scores of buildings.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, as you heard there, President Trump says he was told the strike in Sumy was, quote, "a mistake." He expanded on those comments just
a few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Listen, when you start a war, you got to know that you can win the war, right? You don't start a war against somebody that's 20 times your
size and then hope that people give you some missiles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A brief reminder of some basic facts, Russia invaded Ukraine twice. First, a partial invasion in 2014 when it occupied and then annexed
Crimea in parts of the east. And a second full-scale invasion in 2022 when its ambition to absorb all of the country was only thwarted by Ukrainian
defense that surprised even its Western allies.
And while Putin and even some of his apologists in the West blame Ukraine's ambitions to join NATO, we should also note that Putin has claimed Ukraine
does not exist as a nation separate from Russia, and that Ukrainians and Russians are, quote, "one people." Those are the facts.
Oleksandr Merezhko is a member of Ukraine's Parliament where he chairs the Foreign Affairs Committee, and he joins me now. Oleksandr, good to have you
back.
OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO, CHAIR, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Thank you for inviting me.
SCIUTTO: I wonder how you react to hearing the U.S. president say in effect to Ukraine, quote, "You don't start a war with someone 20 times your size."
You, accusing you in effect of starting the war.
MEREZHKO: Well, this is a very unfortunate statement, to say the least, because it goes against all the statements and the official position of the
United States as a country, as a state. I would like to remind just a couple of facts, for example, the resolution adopted by the General
Assembly of the United Nations, which directly recognizes that it was Russia which committed aggression against Ukraine and the United States
voted for this resolution at the U.N. And there are lots of other statements and international documents firmly confirming the fact of
Russian aggression against Ukraine.
And I would like to remind that the war has been continuous since 2014, starting with the occupation, illegal military occupation by Russia of
Crimea. And these were the years when Mr. Trump was a president. He was in power, and he has recognized this war, this Russian aggression against
Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: Well, I know that those are the public positions of the U.N., they're the public positions of NATO, public positions they remain of many
European leaders but not it seems of the U.S. president today. And you've now called for the FBI to investigate whether someone is spreading Russian
propaganda within the White House. I wonder what exactly you're saying there. Do you believe that someone inside the administration is
deliberately spreading Moscow's point of view?
MEREZHKO: Well, it's very possible. That's why I have called for investigation because I called Mr. President Trump. He said, I was told
that it was a mistake. And the key question, who told, who distorted this information? Because, you know. Mr. Trump is a decision maker. He's a key
decision maker in the foreign policy. And when he's told misinformation or Russian propaganda, it's very worrisome and it needs to be investigated.
SCIUTTO: As you know, this is not the first time we've heard Russian talking points come from senior Trump administration officials. Steve
Witkoff, the president's envoy to Russia, gave an interview a little more than a week ago where he repeated Putin Russian talking points on this idea
that somehow Ukrainians in the east wanted Russia to invade.
I just wonder, with that perspective, coming from the very top of the Trump administration, does Ukraine still believe -- do you believe that the U.S.
can be a fair mediator in any peace talks?
MEREZHKO: Well, first of all, we believe in the United States as a country, as a state, which continues to be our friend and our ally. And of course,
we -- with all due respect, we disagree with some statements made by President Trump and by Mr. Witkoff. But at the same time, I believe that
the U.S. still can play positive role, still can be a mediator. But to do that it needs to recognize basic facts established by international law.
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: Given these ongoing Russian attacks, like the one we saw in Sumy over the weekend, but as you well know, it's not the first time Russia has
been deliberately striking civilian targets since the very start of this war. Do you believe Ukraine is becoming more likely to keep fighting? The
outlines of an agreement, as discussed so far, may not be in Ukraine's interests. What do you believe?
MEREZHKO: I believe in international law. I believe that any agreement with regard to Ukraine should be reached on the basis of principle, nothing
about Ukraine without Ukraine. And there should be very firm framework for this agreement, which is firmly based on the U.N. charter and principles of
international law, including such principles as territorial integrity, sovereign equality, non-use of force, and so on.
SCIUTTO: The expectation, the assessment in the White House, at least of President Trump and you know his famous words to Zelenskyy in the Oval
Office, you have no cards, seems to be that Ukraine does not have any ability to fight without the U.S. But the fact is today, Ukraine is causing
the vast majority of Russian casualties on the frontlines via drone warfare. It still has very capable drones in the Black Sea to hold back
Russia's Black Sea fleet.
Does Ukraine have more ability to keep fighting than perhaps President Trump knows or understands, or believes?
MEREZHKO: Well, first of all, I would like to remind that since the start of the full-scale invasion, Ukraine has successfully been fighting and we
actually defeated Russia next to Kyiv, next to Kharkiv. And now, a part of Russian territory is under control of the Ukrainian army. And if, for
example, the Black Sea is also a good example where Russia lost its dominance.
So, we have no choice but to continue to fight with or without American help. But what is crucially important is that when the United States
provide us with weaponry, it saves human lives, it saves lives of our civilians and our soldiers.
Just to give very simple example, air defense system, which saves right now thousands and thousands of lives of our civilian population, it depends on
the support of the United States, and I would like to remember this very important fact, Mr. Trump and American people.
SCIUTTO: And in fact, Ukraine is now offering to buy further U.S. Patriot missile defense systems. Oleksandr Merezhko, member of the Ukrainian
Parliament, we do appreciate you joining.
MEREZHKO: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, sitting side by side in the Oval Office in the White House, the leaders of the U.S. and El Salvador made it clear that a Maryland man,
which the Trump administration admitted it wrongly deported to El Salvador will not be returning to the U.S. Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia entered the
U.S. illegally, but in 2019, an immigration judge withheld his removal because a gang in his native country had threatened his life. He ended up
in a notorious high security prison in El Salvador because of what the Trump administration called a, quote, "administrative error."
After that, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the U.S. should, quote, "facilitate his return." Today, Secretary of State Marco Rubio underscored
the administration's argument, however, that the U.S. does not have the power to return Abrego Garcia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: No court in the United States has a right to conduct a foreign policy of the United States. It's that simple.
End of story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It's not the end of the story for Abrego Garcia or his family certainly. When the Salvadorian president was asked by my colleague Kaitlan
Collins, if he plans to return him himself, he said the idea was preposterous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAYIB BUKELE, SALVADORIAN PRESIDENT: How can I smuggle -- how can I return him to the United States? Like I smuggle him into the United States or what
do I do? Of course I'm not going to do it. It's like -- I mean, the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United
States? I don't have the power to return him to the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's David Culver has been inside that notorious mega-prison in El Salvador. He joins me now from West Palm Beach, Florida. Thank you,
David. The president of El Salvador said he did not want to smuggle him back, as we just heard there. But the U.S. attorney general, Pam Bondi,
said the U.S. would provide a plane, if asked. Surely the presidents of these two countries could have made a deal. Why not?
[18:15:00]
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It did seem like President Bukele was citing logistical concerns as far as getting him back.
Jim, you're right. And just before he said that, Pam Bondi did mention we would send a plane down.
So, if you look at that room though and who was in there, it seemed like at -- in the moment, they were all talking as though they needed a third-party
to say, OK to this. Meanwhile, all those who could actually say OK were in the Oval Office at that time. Not only did you have President Bukele, who
of course could just command that he be released, but you had, not too far from him, just a few feet away, Gustavo Villatoro, who is the justice and
public security minister in El Salvador, the one who oversees CECOT and the prisoners, and he could simply have them open the door and let them walk
out.
Now, why not? Why wouldn't El Salvador go that next step? OK. First it could be because they -- the U.S. doesn't want it and they want to not set
a precedence here by letting somebody who they have deported leave CECOT. The second -- and it's possible both here are actually in reality what's
playing out. But the second is something I've heard on the ground in El Salvador, Jim, and that is that you have folks who are, in fact, two
government officials in particular, believing that there is incriminating evidence that they have against Abrego Garcia. I asked to see, but they
didn't provide it. They had no proof for us at that moment.
But when I asked one of those officials, so you don't think there's any possibility that you'll send him back to the U.S.? He said, he's not going
anywhere. Those were his exact words. This was last week. So, we saw this in motion as we were on the ground there in El Salvador leading up to this
one-on-one between President Bukele and President Trump.
And in -- if you talk to the attorneys about Abrego Garcia, they push back on that. They say there's no evidence, they say this is fabrication. They
consider it to be a lie on part of both governments, El Salvador and the U.S. And now, you've got Abrego Garcia who's now left in the midst of a
limbo of sorts.
I mean, you've got CECOT, which they say, is a place that once you go in, you never leave. So, it doesn't leave much hope in this moment, Jim, that
he'll be able to get out. But as we look at this from a bigger picture, I mean, this is now the setup for more deportees to go into El Salvador, we
saw that just yesterday with 10 more arriving and it's a facility that does have limits.
In fact, when I was there late last year, they averaged anywhere between 10,000 and 20,000 inmates. They wouldn't give us the exact number, citing
security reasons. But when I was there just six days ago, they told me that they were nearing that 40,000-population capacity that they have at that
prison.
And so, I asked, well, if you're going to take in more deportees, or even as you heard President Trump allude to today, potentially U.S. citizens who
are then deported from the U.S. or at least sent and held in El Salvador, where are you going to put them?
They were talking even in the moments last week that we were with them of a second CECOT and even expanding the current footprint of the one that we
visited. So, they're certainly looking at added capacity, Jim.
SCIUTTO: An open question as to whether those sent there get their right to due process before they're sent, so that evidence can be presented and
tested. David Culver, thanks so much.
Joining me now is member U.S. House of Representatives Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks. Thanks so much for joining. Appreciate you
taking the time.
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Good to be with you. Congratulations on the show.
SCIUTTO: Thank you. I appreciate it. I wonder, the Supreme Court seemed to be clear last week, 9-0 decision, saying facilitate the return, and yet,
you have the leaders of two sovereign nations, the U.S. and El Salva are saying, we just have no way to do it. Do you buy that?
MEEKS: Not at all. It's preposterous. Clearly, they could return this person as the Supreme Court has dictated. And I think that there's red
lights flashing all over the place in regards to what's taking place now under Donald J. Trump.
Here you have him sitting next to an individual who have said himself, who's called himself a good dictator. And here you have Donald King --
Donald Trump who wants to be king of the United States of America. And what is doing is just, you know, horrible, shameful, non-transparent. And
against the values of who we are as the members of citizens of the United States of America.
The world is looking at us and wondering what is happening in this country. And so, clearly, we have an individual who happened to have also been
convicted himself -- he's a convicted felon, the president of the United States now just further disregarding the law and its lawlessness that's
taking place and injustice, lack of transparency that's taking place and due process. It's horrendous. It's not who we are and not who we should be.
SCIUTTO: So, who's standing in the way? The thought was that, well, the Supreme Court would be the backstop, the Supreme Court said bring him back,
and Trump and the El Salvador and president saying, we're not going to do that. What's the recourse?
[18:20:00]
MEEKS: But number one of the recourses has to be Congress has to step up. My Republican colleagues have got to speak up because they know that this
is not right. They know that this is not who we are as a country, and they know that we've got to put collectively a stop to this man who wants to be
king and does not believe in the constitution or abiding by the laws of this land.
He has very rarely done that in his private life, and he's not doing that in his public life as president of the United States. So, it becomes --
because the Congress is supposed to be the body that is separate but equal branch of government and that has oversight even on the executive branch.
We have to stand up and not allow this administration just to do what it is doing without regard to the Congress. We're not Russia.
I know that the president might want us to be Russia, but we are not. Congress needs to step up, judiciary needs to step up and -- as well as it
has and at times, you know, holding individuals in contempt of court and doing what it needs to do to make sure that the laws are being upheld.
SCIUTTO: Do you -- are Democrats doing enough to make that happen? Listen, I know you don't have majorities in either the House or the Senate. But as
you know, even as questions are raised about Trump's leadership, even as his approval ratings fall, Democrats aren't doing much better. Are
Democrats in their own leadership crisis, at this point, for how to respond to Trump?
MEEKS: We don't have a leadership crisis, we have leadership. That's clear. Hakeem Jeffries is very much a leadership. But what's happening is what you
need to have is an outside-inside game, and we saw that starting to happen. We saw people in the streets last -- a week ago, last weekend, that will
continue to build up.
In fact, you see people in the streets around the world. And you'll see, for example, there's bills that I'm putting forward that -- and others in
Congress. And some are now starting to become bipartisan. So, there's issues that we're going to continue to move. I mean, with this whole thing
with tariffs and the lies that he gave the American people, that on day one that inflation would be gone, that the cost of living would be lowered, all
lies.
But we've got a responsibility and we should stand up to do it. I am working -- I have a bill now on this tariffs issue to make sure that it --
as the constitution dictates, it's the right of the Congress, not the president to put that forward. We've got to make sure -- I just need three
Republicans, three brave Republicans to come and step forward with Democrats and we can make a difference to save our country and save who we
are and our values.
SCIUTTO: Will you get those three Republicans?
MEEKS: I'm working very hard on it. You know, so I joined, for example, just to show with a Republican or two Republicans on a bill to say just
that in regards to the tariffs that Congress must have that authority with reference to tariffs. So, I've joined with them. We saw some agreement on
the Senate side in regards to that bill. Same bill that was drafted in the Senate, in a bipartisan way. We are about to have that introduced in the
House. And so, we're working.
I would hope, you know, that -- and I think that as the people hit the streets, as we already see Republicans being told not to conduct or have
these meetings that we need not to have --
SCIUTTO: Town halls, yes.
MEEKS: -- these rallies, town hall meetings. So, they're starting to fill the heat. And so, the people and the power always belongs -- the
government, you know, is of the people and by the people and for the people. And so, the people are starting to step up and put pressure on the
Republicans on side, that then will make a difference.
You see them now, some talking about the cannot and they will not sign a bill with reference to, you know, cutting Medicaid or Medicare or Social
Security. We're going to put the truth comes to the test very shortly when these bills are up, that they're trying to just give this money to the
billionaires for their tax cut.
So, all of these things are going to hit the fan soon. It's the people that's going to give the Democrats further power, because we know how it
affects them directly.
SCIUTTO: Well, we'll be watching closely. Congressman Gregory Meeks, thanks so much for joining.
MEEKS: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, the Trump administration triggering fresh trade policy confusion, threatening new tariffs on consumer electronics just days
after exempting them. What corporate CEOs think of those ongoing trade uncertainties and questions, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." On Wall Street, stocks ended Monday's session higher despite new mixed messages from the Trump administration on
tariffs. Confusion began Friday on word that the U.S. was imposing exemptions for consumer electronics imported from China, such as iPhones.
Then the commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, said those exceptions will only be temporary and that the products would be subject to new
semiconductor tariffs, which would be announced soon.
Another Trump official, Stephen Miller, noted the products still face previously announced tariffs tied to the fentanyl emergency. All this amid
hints of a new Trump administration tariff U-turn. Trump himself on Monday hinted he may reconsider recently announced levies aimed at the auto
industry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I am looking at something to help some of the car companies where they're switching to parts that were made in Canada, Mexico, and other
places, and they need a little bit of time because they're going to make them here, but they need a little bit of time. So, I'm talking about things
like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It's another change. In late March, President Trump promised that his 25 percent across the board auto tariffs would be permanent. This
ongoing tariff chaos and back and forth continues to weigh on business confidence. A new survey from Chief Executive magazine shows 67 percent of
CEOs poll do not approve of the tariffs. More than 60 percent see a U.S. economic slowdown or recession within the next six months.
Richard Quest joins me now. Richard, every day we talk about the back and forth. Obviously, the market responds to the back and forth. But when you
watch the market and speak to folks in the market, do they see anything the administration is saying as taking away the fears and confusion or if a day
-- or is a day like today just a temporary respite?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Well, first of all, congratulations on your new show then. The
new look.
SCIUTTO: Thank you very much.
QUEST: And the new view, the new title. I take my hat off, or what do if I was wearing one. No, they don't. And for good reason, because let's just --
you know, I'm even, I'm weary of talking about the uncertainty, backwards and forwards, which we're just talking about the on and off, this, that,
the other exemptions.
Let's just actually look at what ingredients are in the economic cake at the moment. What is actually baking at the moment, Jim, what it is all
these tariffs on steel, on autos, the 20 percent on China, the 10 percent on the rest of the world, and this takes U.S. tariffs to the highest level
since more than a hundred years, since 1908 or 1912, depending on your definition.
And so, the way this is moving is very dangerous. Regardless of what happens next, the United States has a tariff regime that's never been
higher in a century. And that in of itself is going to cause a slowdown, arguably a recession. And that's what the U.S. economy is facing right now.
It's happening now.
[18:30:22]
SCIUTTO: Tell me about the bond markets, because that's what really spooked Trump himself last week. Have those warning signs dissipated at all?
QUEST: Yes, they have, smooth -- they've smoothed off. I wouldn't say they've gone away. The bond market was basically giving some really nasty
signs both on technical reasons, on financing reasons, and on the question of the whole question of will the U.S. government be able to refinance its
debt at these much higher levels.
Donald Trump was starting to play fast and loose with the faith and credit of the United States. And that's what really saw the dramatics now because
they pulled back, I would say the bond market is marginally easier at the moment.
SCIUTTO: Richard Quest, I'm guessing it's not the last time we talk about it this week or maybe even today. Thanks for joining.
QUEST: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, the U.S. and Iran agree to meet for more nuclear talks. What both sides are saying and what Donald Trump's demanding right after
the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to The Brief. I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are more international headlines we are watching closely today.
Ukrainian officials say cluster munitions were used by Russia on the city of Sumy over the weekend in what is being called a horrific attack. Ukraine
officials say this marks the deadliest single attack on civilians in Ukraine since 2023, killing at least 35 people.
[18:35:00]
China's President Xi Jinping kicked off a tour of Southeast Asia on Monday, his first stop Vietnam, where he made the case that China was a more stable
and responsible superpower than the US. The U.S. hit Vietnam with 46 percent reciprocal tariffs. Before President Trump's pause, the two sides
signed dozens of new agreements, including strengthening production and supply trains.
Harvard University is rejecting the Trump administration's demands for policy changes at the school. At stake, $9 billion in federal funding that
the White House warned Harvard would lose if it refused to comply.
The White House is demanding that Harvard end its DEI policies, cooperate with immigration authorities, and ban face masks at campus protests.
Harvard says the changes would cause it to surrender its independence and its constitutional rights.
American and Iranian negotiators will continue holding nuclear talks after what has been billed as a successful meeting in Oman just over the weekend.
Next round set for the Saturday. The two sides held what Iran calls constructive negotiations for a few hours.
It is not clear exactly what is on the table, but President Trump says he wants a deal that will help keep Iran from building a nuclear weapon. While
U.S. officials have struck an optimistic tone about those talks, Trump has threatened to get tough if necessary. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The only thing is one thing simple. It's really simple. They can't have a nuclear weapon and they got to go fast
because they're fairly close to having one and they're not going to have one. And if we have to do something very harsh, we'll do it. And I'm not
doing it for us, I'm doing it for the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Join me now is Ali Vaez, the Iran project director at the International Crisis Group. Ali, thanks so much for joining.
ALI VAEZ, IRAN PROJECT DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: It's good to see you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Is President Trump threatening U.S. military action on Iran if there's no year or Israeli military action, or perhaps both?
VAEZ: Well, the president has said different things at different times. At times he had suggested that it would be an attack that would be conducted
by Israel primarily with the support of the United States. And at other times, he has suggested that it would be the U.S. taking action.
But the reality is that Israel just doesn't have the capabilities to set back Iran's nuclear program significantly. And in any case, the United
States is very likely to be dragged into a military confrontation with Iran.
SCIUTTO: Is that a concern for U.S. officials that Israel strikes without an explicit OK from the U.S. because there are those who have said that
Israel might calculate that a U.S. deal is too weak from Israel's perspective.
VAEZ: You know, I would be shocked if Israel would conduct an attack in this administration without President Trump's knowledge. It might have
happened in the Biden administration, but it's very really far-fetched to imagine knowing how the president is reluctant to get bogged down in
additional wars of choice and unwinnable conflicts in that part of the world.
For Israel to put the U.S. in front of a fait accompli that again would definitely drag the U.S. in because Israel can start it, but for sure it
would not be able to finish it.
SCIUTTO: So when we hear from the Iranian foreign minister saying that they got very close to reaching a framework for negotiations, can you outline
briefly, and this is very early stages, what an eventual agreement might look like? Perhaps might it look like the JCPOA from 2015?
VAEZ: Well, yes, absent in what the president said today and the segment that you aired is basically the fact that Iran is this close to the version
of nuclear weapons because he withdrew from the previous agree in 2018 and that lifted all the limitations and all the transparency measures on Iran's
nuclear program.
And there is no other formula other than a formula in which Iran's nuclear program is restricted and subject to rigorous monitoring by the U.N.
nuclear watchdog in return for some sanctions relief. But getting back there is going to be very difficult, Jim, because the issues are too
complicated, mistrust is too high, and time is really limited.
SCIUTTO: The time frame here is key because President Trump has at times indicated Iran only has a couple of months. Right. Is that a realistic time
frame? And it took many months for the 2015 Iran nuclear deal to be worked out.
VAEZ: That's right. It took two and a half years to negotiate the first nuclear deal with Iran.
[18:40:02]
But, but look, the reality is that there is a ticking time bomb in this process, which is that the U.N. Security Council resolution that endorsed
the first nuclear deal will expire this fall. And in order to prevent Iran's nuclear fraud from getting out of the Security Council, the
Europeans would have to snap back all the U.N. sanctions this summer, mid- summer, around the end of July.
So we literally have about two and a half months left before that happens to see if a deal is achievable. Now, a comprehensive deal in this period is
very far-fetched. What is possible is some kind of a limited interim agreement that would buy time and space for diplomacy.
SCIUTTO: Understood. We'll see if that's possible. Still quite a tight time frame. Ali Vaez, thanks so much for joining.
VAEZ: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Just ahead, an attack on a U.S. governor's home while they were sleeping. What we know about the suspect and what police say the attacker
planned to do. Please do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to the brief new video just into CNN. The man who is facing attempted murder, terrorism and other charges now a district judge
this hour denied Cody Balmer bail in connection with an arson attack on the home of the governor of Pennsylvania.
These are pictures of the destruction that attack left behind. Police bomber jumped offense broke into the residence, set fire with a homemade
Molotov cocktail. CNN's Danny Freeman has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pictures are haunting. Part of the Pennsylvania governor's residence burned in an attack by an
alleged arsonist. Light fixtures, plates, a piano, couches. The fire damaging part of a dining room where Governor Josh Shapiro and his family
had only hours before celebrated the first night of Passover with a Seder. Among the charred items, pages of a Haggadah, the Passover prayer book used
by Shapiro's family.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D) PENNSYLVANIA: This type of violence is not OK. This kind of violence is becoming far too common in our society. And I don't
give a damn if it's coming from one particular side or the other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A large fire in the dining room, the first floor. They can see fire out the windows. They're currently working on getting
everybody evacuated. There's about 25 people inside.
[18:45:06]
FREEMAN (voice-over): Police say just before 2:00 a.m. Sunday, as the governor and his family slept, this man, 38-year-old Cody Balmer, hopped a
fence at the mansion armed with a hammer and beer bottles filled with gasoline.
LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: I will tell you that he clearly had a plan. He was very methodical in his approach and moved
through it without a lot of hurry.
FREEMAN: State police said that Balmer evaded security as he made his way over the fence from this part of the grounds of the residence to this
particular building. There he broke a window and threw a makeshift Molotov cocktail inside. Then he broke another window, climbed inside himself and
threw another Molotov cocktail.
BIVENS: That was all playing out over a period of several minutes. It was a very quick event that occurred and again, troopers were actively searching
for him at the time.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Yet despite public praise for law enforcement's quick response, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN that the
incident is seen by many in the Pennsylvania State Police as a security failure.
Balmer escaped, but ultimately turned himself in to police on Sunday and admitted to the attack, according to court documents. He told investigators
he'd harbored hatred towards Shapiro.
According to an affidavit obtained by CNN when asked what he would have done had he found the governor inside, Balmer said he, quote, would have
beaten him with his hammer.
SHAPIRO: If this individual was trying to deter me from doing my job as your governor, rest assured I will find a way to work even harder than I
was just yesterday for the good people of Pennsylvania.
FREEMAN (voice-over): While Balmer hadn't posted much on social media in recent years, CNN found posts that he 2021 criticizing then President Joe
Biden. And though police have not released any more information as to why Balmer may have carried out this attack, Shapiro said his family would not
be terrorized for their Jewish faith.
SHAPIRO: No one will deter me or my family or any Pennsylvanian from celebrating their faith openly and proudly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Quite a shocking story. Well, a tense moment for Oprah Winfrey as pop star Katy Perry and five other women touch the edge of space on a Blue
Origin space tourism flight. Someone who's been on board twice before tells me exactly how it feels.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: You're watching The Brief. Welcome back. Doesn't happen every day. Pop star sent to the very edge of space. Katy Perry and journalist Gayle
King among six women on a space tourism trip with Blue Origin that of course the company run by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos. The launch in Texas
took the passengers up more than 100 kilometers, about 62 miles before returning to ear roughly 10 minutes later.
[18:50:09]
A clearly emotional Perry kissed the ground on arrival and described exactly how it felt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATY PERRY, SINGER: I feel super connected to love, so connected to love. I think this experience has shown me you never know how much love is inside
of you, like how much love you have to give and how loved you are until the day you launch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Lane Bess is the founder of Bess Ventures and Advisory. He knows a thing or two about Blue Origin as he's completed two trips with them. He
joins me now. Lane, thanks so much. Can you describe what you feel in that rocket on the way up and on the way down?
LANE BESS, FOUNDER, BESS VENTURES AND ADVISORY: Jim it's such a rush of emotions and exhilaration when you're going up in the rocket. For many
people, it's a dream of a lifetime to do something like this. And it all comes into focus in a short 12 minutes. But intense is one way to describe
it.
SCIUTTO: I hear you. Tell me about the time you're in space. How much weightlessness do you experience?
BESS: You've got approximately five minutes of weightlessness and you try to make the most of it. In fact, it's one of the reasons I went back a
second time. The first time I enjoyed the weightlessness and was mesmerized by it, but the second time I wanted to go back to enjoy the view. The view
is just spectacular and thought provoking.
SCIUTTO: When you say thought provoking. I've heard this from, you know, public comments from the first men to land on the moon, for instance. But
looking back at Earth, do you feel, I suppose, does it look vulnerable from up there?
BESS: It's interesting you say that because that's exactly the thought that comes to my mind. You really realize that you have a small part in a small
instance in time of the life of this planet. And it really does make you think about the daily things that you experience, whether they're the
pressures of work or politics or war. And you realize how fragile everything is and that you're getting a view of the Earth in a way that
only 719 people have had a chance to see.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, it must make, you know, sitting in morning traffic seem a lot less important when you watch the blue marble from up there. I
mean, listen, it's obviously a very expensive measure. This is way out of reach for the vast majority of people down here. Do you look forward to a
day when that's no longer the case, when it's more democratic?
BESS: I do, I do. Yes, I do. And I think that Blue Origin and others are trying to do this, to make this a rinse and repeat experience. Us being I
was on the 3rd and the 10th launch today. These wonderful women had the experience of the 11th human launch. Doing this so many times they learn
how to do this in a very efficient and cost effective way. So I do see a time that this will be much more affordable.
SCIUTTO: Before I go, I hate to ask you, what was the scariest part?
BESS: The most intense part is coming down because it flies as smooth as an arrow going up. When you're coming down with 6.3 Gs and you're rattling as
you hit the Earth's atmosphere, falling at about 1,800 miles an hour. So it's intense. More intense than any amusement ride I've ever been on.
SCIUTTO: I'm sure. Gosh. Wow. Well, you're a lucky man. I look forward to my chance. Maybe someday. Lane Bess, thanks so much.
BESS: Jim, thank you.
SCIUTTO: At the White House today, a college football trophy hoisted aloft by the vice president literally came apart in his hands, watched by
President Trump, accompanied by, of course, a brass band. This was that moment when he raised the national championship trophy, this won by the
Ohio State Buckeyes football champions.
The base, detached, fell to the ground, weighs 35 pounds, made out of gold, bronze and stainless steel. After some assistance by the team, quite a bit
of fumbling, the vice president finally held up part of the prize.
I don't know if you remember that one. I certainly do. In the golden age of coming of age movies in the 1980s, "The Breakfast Club" stood out as one of
the very best. But the beloved cast that seemed to come together so beautifully on film had not actually been together since production wrapped
up 40 years ago. That is, until this past weekend when the actors reunited at the Chicago Comic and Entertainment Expo. Molly Ringwald told the
audience they are that rewatching the movie years later with her children was a wild experience that changed her parenting.
[18:55:05]
Still a great film. Thanks so much for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching The Brief. We'll be here every night,
6:00 Eastern Time. Please do stay with CNN.
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END
