Return to Transcripts main page

The Brief with Jim Sciutto

CNN International: Trump Insists Russia Want Peace After Kyiv Attack; Rising Death Toll in Kyiv; Witkoff to Meet with Russian Officials Friday; U.S. Must Remove Tariffs Before Talks Can Begin Says China; E.U. and U.S. Negotiates on Possible Tariff Deal; E.U. Hits Apple and Meta with $800M Antitrust Fines; Pope's Legacy on Elevating Women in the Church; Honoring Holocaust Victims and Survivors. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 24, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Timo in Washington, and you are watching "The

Brief."

Just ahead this hour, President Trump says Russia made a, quote, "pretty big concession" to Ukraine. How? By not taking the entire country in its

invasion. China says the U.S. must remove all unilateral tariffs and denies Trump's claims there have been trade talks between the two nations. And

it's draft day for the NFL. The festivities kickoff shortly as teams look to pick a future franchise legend.

We do begin in Kyiv bombarded by Russian missiles and drones once again overnight. While in Washington, President Donald Trump under pressure to

end the war, pleaded with Russian President Vladimir Putin to stop in a rare rebuke of the Russian leader on social media by Trump.

Rescue and recovery efforts continued through the day in the Ukrainian capital. Authorities say those Russian strikes killed at least 12 people

and injured 90. And yet, President Trump says he still believes Russia is serious about making peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What concessions has Russia offered up thus far to get to the point where you're closer to peace?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Stopping the war, stopping taking the whole country. Pretty big concession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: In fact, they were stopped by Ukrainian forces. Republican Senator Bill Cassidy sharply disagreed with Trump's characterization,

posting on social media, Putin doesn't want peace. He stalled every negotiation and keeps bombing civilians.

Well, on Friday, President Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, is set to meet with President Putin in Moscow. From the Russian capital CNN's Fred

Pleitgen sent this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was one of the most brutal aerial blitzes since the start of the war. First

responders frantically continue the search for possible survivors, dozens confirmed, killed or wounded, Kyiv says.

I don't see strong pressure on Russia nor new sanctions packages against the aggression of the Russian Federation, he said.

President Trump reacting, saying he's not happy about the strikes.

TRUMP: I didn't like last night. I wasn't happy with it, and we're in the midst of talking peace and missiles were fired. And I was not happy with

it.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): But Russian State TV in full breaking news mode, claiming the strikes targeted military infrastructure in locations across

Ukraine.

These videos show the unsuccessful attempts of Ukrainian air defense to shoot down Russian missiles, the anchor says. At the moment, there's no

specific information about which objects in Kyiv were the target.

The attacks come just hours before President Trump's special negotiator, Steve Witkoff, is expected back in Moscow for another possible meeting with

Vladimir Putin. Witkoff recently telling Tucker Carlson, he trusts Russia's leader.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: What did you think of him?

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY: I liked him.

CARLSON: Yes.

WITKOFF: I thought he was straight up with me. In the second visit that I had -- it all -- it got personal. The president -- President Putin had

commissioned a beautiful portrait of the -- of President Trump from the leading Russian artist, and actually gave it to me and asked me to take it

home to President Trump, which I brought home and delivered to him.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): CNN recently got an exclusive look at that portrait from the Russian artist the Kremlin commissioned to paint it. He said he

was told it could help improve U.S.-Russia relations as Moscow remains firmly in control of the pace of negotiations towards a possible ceasefire

with Ukraine. The Kremlin is saying they want a peace agreement, but on Russia's terms.

We and President Putin are in favor of achieving peace while ensuring the interests of our country, the Kremlin spokesman says. This is a mandatory

condition.

And a senior senator and Moscow tells me, Russia's leadership will not be pressured into a deal.

PLEITGEN: Trump has threatened massive sanctions if this doesn't work out.

[18:05:00]

ANDREY KLIMOV, RUSSIAN SENATOR: Sanctions cannot change Russian national interests and our possibility to follow our interests. It is not possible.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): And the Russians believe they have a good chance to get their way, both on the battlefield and at the negotiating table.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Oleksandr Merezhko is the chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee in Ukraine's Parliament. Thanks so much for joining us again.

OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO, CHAIR, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, PARLIAMENT OF UKRAINE: Thank you for inviting me.

SCIUTTO: First, I'd like to ask you to respond to something Trump said in the Oval Office today. He says, it is a major concession by Russia not to

have taken the entire country, to have taken your entire country by force. What's your response to that? Is that a concession by Russia?

MEREZHKO: Well, it is absolutely no concession. And from my perspective, at least, it's absolutely absurd to say something like that for very simple

reason. The truth is that Russian troops were incapable of taking territory of Ukraine. They suffered defeat next to Kyiv. They suffered defeat next to

Kharkiv. And there is no concession. The truth is that the best guarantee of our security and territorial integrity right now is Ukrainian army.

SCIUTTO: When you hear comments like that from President Trump and comments from his chief negotiator, Steve Witkoff, saying he likes

President Putin, do you still consider the U.S. to be a trustworthy mediator in peace talks?

MEREZHKO: Well, we continue to regard the United States as a state, as a country and American people our very close friend, and we continue to hope

that the United States will remain our friend and our ally. Because the crime of aggression, which Russia has committed against Ukraine and

continuous to wage this aggressive war, it's also crime against the United States, against its national interests.

SCIUTTO: But do you trust the American leader to look after Ukraine's interests?

MEREZHKO: I would like to trust President Trump because he's representative of the leader of the free world in democratic states. But

some statements which Mr. Trump's makes, they cause sort of very controversial reaction among Ukrainians. And we don't understand sometimes

what he's trying to say.

SCIUTTO: Trump said today that he has applied pressure on Russia. He doesn't specify what that pressure is. You heard Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying

he has not seen such pressure. Have you seen any evidence of U.S. pressure, economic pressure, or other pressure that's being applied right now on

Putin?

MEREZHKO: I don't see such a pressure. And you know, the thing is that Putin is humiliating. The president of the United States, Putin has

rejected several times ceasefire proposal put forward by President Trump. And we don't see any serious reaction whatsoever from President Trump.

We don't see secondary sanctions, which can be imposed or we don't see providing Ukraine with weaponry. And I don't see any pressure,

unfortunately. The pressure was under the administration of President Biden, but we don't see such pressure coming from the current

administration, and it's very worrisome.

SCIUTTO: How is Trump's proposal to recognize Russia's seizure of Crimea being received by Ukrainians, yourself included?

MEREZHKO: I hope that the United States will never do it, because it would be against U.S. national interest, against international law, against U.S.

foreign policy. I would like to remind about the so-called Crimea declaration in which the administration of President Trump and State

Secretary Pompeo has promised never to recognize annexation of Crimea committed by Russia and never recognized illegal occupation of Ukrainian

territories occupation, which contradicts -- which violates international law.

And we hope that the U.S. administration and President Trump will be consistent and will continue to follow principles of international law, the

U.N. charter and national interests of the United States.

SCIUTTO: Final question, if the U.S. gives up on peace talks, as you've heard Trump and the vice president, J. D. Vance say they might do, is

Ukraine prepared to move forward on its own without the U.S. as a partner?

[18:10:00]

Well, first of all, I -- again, I hope that it'll never happen, because if it happens, the U.S., the president will show its weakness in the face of

Russian aggression and Russian terrorist regime. It would be a huge blow to American credibility all over the world. It'll undermine this credibility.

But if we are left alone, you know, we have no choice but continue to defend our lives. We just have no any other choice.

SCIUTTO: Oleksandr Merezhko, thanks so much and we wish you safety given where you are in Kyiv.

MEREZHKO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, Beijing today fired back at the Trump administration on trade. It says that the U.S. must remove all unilateral tariffs on China

before a deal between the two countries can take shape. Something the U.S. has said is a non-starter from its point of view.

As for the state or existence of trade talks, a Chinese spokesperson had this to say, quote, "China and the United States have not engaged in any

consultations or negotiations on the tariff issue, let alone reached any agreement." The official goes on to call, reports of talks, some of them

shared by President Trump himself, quote, "fake news." Contrast that with Trump. He continued to insist today that talks that China are, in fact,

well underway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, they had a meeting this morning. So, I can't tell you. It doesn't matter who they is. We may reveal it later. But they had meetings

this morning and we've been meeting with China. And so, I think you have Jeff, as usual, I think you have your reporting wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, that's not what China is saying. The question is, who do you believe? U.S. stocks continue to rise on Thursday on trade hopes, but

the economic effects of Trump's trade war are beginning to be felt across the world and are set to worsen over the next month.

Let's take an in-depth look at exactly what's at stake here. It can take more than three weeks for a container ship leaving Tianjin, China to reach

California, twice as long to arrive on the U.S. East Coast. This means that Chinese products hit by higher tariffs in early April, still have not

reached the U.S.

A firm that tracks container ship booking says they're running up to 60 percent below normal now, which means as well that fewer goods are now

being sent to the U.S. Less business for major U.S. ports. In fact, the Port of Los Angeles now expects cargo traffic to drop 33 percent, by a

third, next month compared to last year.

Craig Fuller, the CEO of logistics information firm FreightWaves recently posted on X, import volumes will start drying up the first week of May.

Companies tied to imports, port operators, truckers, warehouses, forwarders, railroads will all struggle. Layoffs the following week.

Tariff uncertainty also hurting U.S. multinationals. In the past 24 hours alone, Pepsi has cut its profit forecast. Proctor & Gamble said it will be

forced to raise prices, and American Airlines is withdrawing its outlook and warns of slowing demand.

Joining me now, Gavin Bade. He's the trade and economic policy reporter for The Wall Street Journal. Gavin, good to have you.

GAVIN BADE, TRADE AND ECONOMIC POLICY REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: A pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, it's quite a war of words between Trump and the Chinese foreign ministry. Trump says, we're talking, Chinese foreign ministry says,

that's fake news. What is the actual state of negotiations between the two countries?

BADE: Our reporting shows that maybe it's a little bit in the middle. You know, the U.S. and China do have routine dialogues on security issues. The

National Security Council talks to their Chinese counterparts in Washington, you know, multiple times a week. But those are not the sort of

substantive trade discussions that I think most people think Trump is talking about here.

From everything that we've seen, both from our sources in Washington and those in Beijing and elsewhere, no such trade talks are happening right

now. And it really speaks to kind of the exaggeration that I think the Trump administration is putting on a lot of these trade talks, whether with

China or with trading partners around the world.

Of course, we have, you know, more than 70 nations coming to us right now asking for a trade deal to get those reciprocal tariffs, which are on pause

right now, permanently lifted by the Trump administration. The White House wants you to think that those talks are going very well and that they're

very far along, but that's not been what my reporting has been showing recently. It's -- at best, the U.S. has agreed to terms of negotiation with

nations like India, but has not actually gone forward and said, we have a deal yet. That's going to take more time.

SCIUTTO: The Wall Street Journal is reporting that China is ratcheting up its pain threshold to withstand a longer trade war. For one, I wonder, does

China, to some extent, see a longer trade war as to its advantage? Does it calculate it can endure the pain better than the U.S. can?

[18:15:00]

BADE: I don't think that the Chinese think a trade war is to their advantage, quite to the contrary, but I do think that they think that they

have a higher pain tolerance than the U.S. Xi Jinping, the Chinese leader, has been preparing his people for what they call a long march, a prolonged

economic conflict with the U.S. And for decades, the Chinese government has tried to make their economy more self-reliant.

So, I think what we'll see is, you know, they, of course, are not as -- the Chinese government is not as sensitive to public opinion as perhaps our

politicians here are in Washington, and I think you'll see them try to ride this out, try to ride out the economic harm, but their economy is

teetering. They have serious issues in China as well. And so, it's going to be -- it's going to have a lot of pain for them as well. I think it just --

it remains to be seen who blinks first on this. And from everything we've seen, the Trump administration is heading in that direction.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You've even had some public trolling from China of the U.S., the chickening out means yesterday. Gavin Bade, good to have you on. Thanks

for your -- sharing your reporting.

BADE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the European Union and U.S. continue to negotiate terms of their own potential trade deal, but the French finance minister says there

is still a long way to go before reaching an agreement. New E.U. fines on U.S. tech giants Apple and Facebook parent company Meta this week might

complicate those talks even more. The E.U. has to walk a fine line between pleasing the U.S. without antagonizing China as well.

Beijing has warned the E.U. not to isolate China in order to get a deal with Washington. Reports say China could soon remove sanctions on some E.U.

lawmakers in an effort to further improve relations between the two sides.

French Finance minister Eric Lombard joins me now. He's in Washington for the spring meetings of the IMF and the World Bank. Good to have you here.

ERIC LOMBARD, FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER: Hello, Jim. Good to be here.

SCIUTTO: So, the Trump administration, as you heard there, has said repeatedly it is close to making several deals, including with its European

trading partners. Are the U.S. and E.U. actually close to an agreement?

LOMBARD: I'm not sure we are close. But you know, I was here in Washington two months ago when President Macron paid a visit to President Trump. By

the way, the center of this visit was to work on the ceasefire in Ukraine, but also, we discuss trade issues.

And I want to remind to people who are listening to us that the business -- the level of trade between the U.S. and the E.U. is the largest in the

world. I mean, we are huge trading partners. We do a lot of business together, and on the top of that, we are allies and we are friends.

And so, hopefully, we can clinch a deal. I don't know how rapidly. What is clear to me is that two months ago it was difficult to come to terms. And I

met a lot of American officials since I joined here in Washington for the IMF and World Bank meetings, and the mood has changed. The mood is much

more positive.

And we all want to get to a deal rapidly, and for that we have to precise what we want. What we would like to get, from a European standpoint, is to

get to -- on industrial goods, zero tariffs on both sides, and also to work on how we can increase the level of business between the E.U. and the U.S.,

because there's a lot going on already.

And so, in terms of development for our people in Europe, your people in the U.S., we believe we can do more than what was done in the past. And

this positive mood is felt here in Washington. I was yesterday, for instance, with Secretary Lutnick and we discussed on how to develop in the

airplane industry and the car industry. So, in terms of industrial goods, I'm sure we can do better in the future.

SCIUTTO: Trump is still talking about coming to a final agreement within days, but it strikes me and others involved in previous trade talks that

these typically take weeks and months. What is a realistic timeline for an agreement?

LOMBARD: It can be quite fast. Because actually we are really down to what is essential, that is a trading of goods. Between the Americas, between the

U.S. and Europe. And there have been already decision made by President Trump on some type of products. For instance, on chips, on products coming

from Asia, on smartphones for instance. And we can go sector by sector, work with our American friends and get rapidly to a deal. We're ready to

involve as much time here in Washington as needed.

I think it would be useful because the level today of tariffs between the two unions is at the level of 10 percent and even more, for instance, steel

and aluminum. And that may have a negative impact also on the U.S. economy. And of course, after on the European economy. So, the sooner we get to

terms, the better it is for both economies.

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: As you know, the E.U. has imposed fines on U.S. tech giants Apple and Facebook, Facebook company's parent Meta this week, which has angered

the Trump administration. Would the E.U., in any way, back off these fines as part of a potential agreement?

LOMBARD: It's totally different. And believe me, it's not related. We have our own regulation in Europe and when countries -- when companies be them,

European or American, contradict those rules, they may be fined. That also happened to European companies in the U.S. And that the state of law that

we have in both unions. And believe me, it was a process that started long time ago. That is a decision of the European Commission, by the way, which

-- I mean, this company can appeal on those decision because the rule of law, of course, is working in Europe as is working in the U.S.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I understand. This is the result of E.U. laws. I spoke to Spain's ministry of economy earlier this week who said that Spain is

looking to engage with other countries, to make deals that they talk about Mercosur in South America, China as well, to grow those relationships if

the trading relationship with the U.S. shrinks. Would France do the same? Is France and other -- is the E.U., writ large, looking more, for instance,

China?

LOMBARD: We cannot replace the United States of America. We cannot. It is a formidable trading partner. And so, we need to find a solution. Having

said that, Europe is a very open area and we are dealing with all parts of the world, and it's fair to say that if, unfortunately, the level of

activity with the U.S. were to be diminishing, probably it would be compensated, because in the end of the day, we have to maintain the level

activity.

But our priority, and that is one of the reason I'm here and I met with U.S. officials, is to get to a deal with America because, I mean, you are

the largest economy in the world. So, I mean, you cannot be replaced, which is why we are here with a positive view on things and a willingness to find

a deal.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, I did want to ask you about Ukraine. In that -- of course there's a military element to that, but there's also a financial

element, aid to help Ukraine rebuild potentially if an end of the war comes. But you have a U.S. administration less and less interested in

Ukraine and talking about walking away even from the peace talks. Can Europe and the E.U. and France fill that space if the U.S. backs off and

replace U.S. support, if the U.S. walks away?

LOMBARD: First, it is absolutely key for the piece of the world that we get to ceasefire. But we are in a situation where it would be very

detrimental to the world's stability if Russians were winning this war, because it's a war of aggression, which is totally illegal.

And Europe has confirmed to Ukraine, hopefully joined (ph) with our Americans friend and allies. But if there is a partial withdrawal, we will

continue to support Ukraine to make sure that they can stand against. Russian army.

They do it very courageously. You've seen -- I mean we've seen in your report that Kyiv is bombarded, the capital of a European country in Europe

where war at our border. So, the priority, again, is to get to a deal, to an agreement, but that's the responsibility of Ukraine and Russia because

Ukraine is a sovereign country and they have to decide themselves the terms they're ready to accept.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Eric Lombard, we do appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much for joining. Wish you good luck on the rest of your trip.

LOMBARD: Thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Coming up --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHALIE BECQUART, UNDER-SECRETARY, GENERAL SECRETARIAT OF SYNOD OF BISHOPS ROME: What I think it was a very symbolic gesture from Pope Francis

appointed me as woman in this role. Before it has always been a bishop, not because women are better, but because when we are together, as men and

women, usually we work better. We take better decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: -- Pope Francis' legacy as a reformer who elevated the role of women in the church. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Thousands of mourners continue to stream into St. Peter's Basilica to pay the respects to the late Pope Francis. This as preparations

now well underway for Saturday's funeral. The Vatican says 130 delegations, including 50 heads of state plan to attend, among them, U.S. president

Donald Trump and the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Francis leaves a legacy, many legacies, one of elevating women within the church. Isa Soares has this look at how the pope may have helped crack the

stained-glass ceiling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the church's seat of power where the patriarchy reigns, women icons loom

large. But none was more important to Pope Francis than this one, the Virgin Mary in the Basilica de Santa Maria Maggiore, which he visited more

than a hundred times. And as in life, his death will be at her feet. This, his final resting place.

Unlike those before him, the pope fought to elevate women seeking their worth within the Vatican.

When women are in charge, things work, he said, just days before he died.

During his 12-year papacy, Francis appointed around 20 women to positions of authority in the Vatican. That while perhaps slow progress is simply

unprecedented in a male dominated church.

Most recently, France has made history when he appointed Sister Simona Brambilla as the first female prefect in the church and the Roman Curia.

Sister Nathalie Becquart was elected by Pope Francis in 2021 as the undersecretary to the Synod of Bishops, a body tasked with church reform.

The first woman to hold the post and have voting rights.

NATHALIE BECQUART, UNDER-SECRETARY, GENERAL SECRETARIAT OF SYNOD OF BISHOPS ROME: What I think it was a very symbolic gesture from Pope Francis

appointed me as woman in this role. Before it has always been a bishop, not because women are better, but because when we are together, as men and

women, usually we work better, we make better decision.

SOARES: But while Francis broke with tradition, formally allowing women to read from the gospel during mass, act as altar service, and distribute

communion, he made it clear repeatedly that ordaining women as priests was off limits.

CROWD: Women can be priests, don't kick the can.

SOARES (voice-over): Kate McElwee leads the Women's Ordination Conference, which calls for gender equality in the Catholic Church.

[18:30:00]

KATE MCELWEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WOMEN'S ORDINATION CONFERENCE: Pope Francis' appointments of women to high positions within the Vatican is

extremely significant. It really helps change the culture within the Vatican. And so, I hope that it starts to ask more questions than an

answer, is like, why can't women then go into the Conclave? Why are women excluded from this?

SOARES: How do you make sense of that?

MCELWEE I would say that Pope Francis unlocked the doors, but didn't quite open the doors for women.

SOARES (voice-over): But they will keep on knocking, a major challenge, no doubt, for the next head of the Catholic Church.

Isa Soares, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Coming up, people around the world honor Holocaust victims and survivors. We're going to share one incredible story from inside our CNN

family. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we are watching today.

In the aftermath of new Russian strikes on Kyiv, U.S. President Donald Trump says he still believes his Russian counterpart, Putin, is serious

about a peace deal. U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff is expected to meet the Russian president in Russia on Friday.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says he is optimistic about a trade deal with South Korea. This follows a bilateral meeting. The Trump

administration has expressed interest in negotiating regional trade deals with some of China's neighbors, including South Korea and Japan, in order

to then pressure Beijing.

Pakistan has suspended trade with India as tensions escalate after a militant attack in Indian controlled Kashmir left 26 people dead. All but

one of those victims were Indian. India is accusing Pakistan of supporting terrorist groups in the region. And has now closed a key border crossing.

Pakistan has denied any involvement.

[18:35:00]

Well, today is Holocaust Remembrance Day. A day to reflect on those who lost their lives in one of the world's worst atrocities. The Nazi regime

killed some 6 million Jews as part of their campaign of violence, alongside millions more Russians, Poles, other innocent civilians.

For some, today is also a chance to honor the survivors. This is a tale of three Elies. CNN's own Elie Honig, the senior legal analyst you all know,

he was named in honor of his grandfather, a concentration camp survivor, a man he sadly never knew. For years, he was the only one with that name, but

nearly a year ago, he got a surprise e-mail and learned that, in fact, he isn't alone.

CNN's Elie Honig shares the story of Dr. Elie Honig.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: At this point, you are declared a fugitive.

DR. ELIE HONIG, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: I'm declared a fugitive.

ELIE HONIG: A fugitive from who exactly?

DR. ELIE HONIG: From the Germans that occupied.

ELIE HONIG (voice-over): At just 20 days old in November of 1942, Elie Honig was a fugitive from the Nazis, along with his mother and two sisters.

HONIG: Why would the Nazis have been so possessed with finding a woman and her three children?

DR. ELIE HONIG: Because every single person was supposed to be annihilated.

ELIE HONIG (voice-over): I have lived my whole life thinking I was the only Elie Honig. And then I met Dr. Elie Honig, an 82-year-old Holocaust

survivor.

DR. ELIE HONIG: Well, my grandson called me up and said, do you know an Elie Honig?

I said, "I heard the name, but I have no idea who he is." Why not try to contact you? And we have been talking ever since.

ELIE HONIG: Dr. Honig initially thought we might be related. We aren't, but we bonded over a shared connection to the Holocaust. I was named after

my grandfather. His Hebrew name was Eliezer Honig, a Nazi concentration camp survivor and a man I never met.

Dr. Honig was born in Nazi-occupied France during the Holocaust. Most of his family were murdered by the Nazis, including his father.

HONIG: How many of your family members ended up at Auschwitz?

DR. ELIE HONIG: Ten, and nine perished there.

ELIE HONIG (voice-over): Honig was already being hunted by the Nazis before he was born, but he, his sisters, and his mother lived because one

woman made it her mission to help them survive.

DR. ELIE HONIG: She swore to herself that she would do whatever she could to save us, and she enlisted her entire family.

ELIE HONIG: Madeleine Counard (ph) was a Christian woman who taught kindergarten to Dr. Honig's older sisters. Shortly after he was born,

Counard directed her 12-year-old niece to sneak Honig and his mother out of the hospital and into hiding.

DR. ELIE HONIG: I was carried in a bag, literally in a bag. I was 20 days old, whatever, a newborn, practically. They placed me in a house where

there was another newborn, so that, if there's any crying, there wouldn't be any suspicion.

And then they took me from there to Angers, and I was in an orphanage run by Dr. Gigon (ph). I don't know where. I don't have more information. I

wish I did, but I don't know.

ELIE HONIG: In order to protect him, Honig was given a French alias, Michel. His mother and sisters were hidden in different locations from him,

so the entire family was separated for the duration of the war.

HONIG: How long a period of time did this network of your French Christian neighbors protect you as a newborn?

DR. ELIE HONIG: I would say 19 months.

ELIE HONIG: If any of the French Christian neighbors who helped you and your family survive had been caught harboring you, helping you by the

Nazis, what would have happened to them?

DR. ELIE HONIG: They would have been brought to concentration camp. They wouldn't have survived.

I think of the bravery of all of them. And I asked myself many times over the years, what would I have done had I been in their place? I don't have

an answer. I don't know what I would have done. I just think to myself, I hope I would have done an honorable thing, but I cannot --

ELIE HONIG (voice-over): Because of their bravery, Dr. Honig survived and went on to lead a beautiful life, becoming a celebrated physics professor.

He also married, had four children, and now he has five grandchildren.

HONIG: Is there anything that you hope future generations would take from your story or from the story of the people who saved you?

DR. ELIE HONIG: I would like them to recognize how difficult it is, but how important it is to rise above a crowd, to do what's right, to do what

you know in your heart is right, even though it is difficult. How do you act honorably? How do you pass that down, so that you can look yourself in

the mirror and said, I did the right thing?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Elie Honig joins me now. I mean, it's an amazing story. The beginning as well, where you get this e-mail saying, hey, there's another

Honig out there with this story.

HONIG (on camera): What a great coincidence. I mean, I do get e-mails sometimes from people saying, hi, I'm James Honig. Could we be cousins? The

answer is always no.

SCIUTTO: I get the Sciutto e-mails too.

[18:40:00]

HONIG: Yes, exactly. And this one was -- I'm Elie Honig. I mean, I thought there was no other. And when I looked into this story, I said, oh, my gosh.

We have this common bond that our families were both impacted by the Holocaust. Both of my paternal grandparents lost their whole families. And

Dr. Honig, his survival is a miracle. He lost his father. He lost nine other relatives who were murdered at Auschwitz. His father was killed

before he was born.

Dr. Honig's mother was seven months pregnant with him when his father was killed at Auschwitz. He went back and found the paperwork. And I think

that's such an important point here. It underscores just how blood thirsty the Nazis were. They declared Dr. Honig a fugitive, a fugitive when he was

20 days old. And later, when they were searching, they couldn't find the mother and the kids who were being hidden. Somebody told the Nazis they had

jumped into the river to commit suicide. And the Nazis dragged the river, the Mayan River in France, because they were so determined to find these

people.

SCIUTTO: There were consequences for the rescuers as well.

HONIG: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Including this woman who, you know, risked her own life, right, to protect him.

HONIG: She's the hero of the story. Madeleine Counard (ph) and her family. And, you know, Dr. Honig understates it there, he says they would've been

sent to concentration camps and they would not have survived. I mean, the historical evidence suggests they might well have been tortured. I mean,

they certainly would've been killed.

And let's remember, you know, these are French Christians. These are not Jewish people who save their Jewish neighbors, and not every bystander, a

lot of bystanders in the Holocaust in World War II either did nothing or aided and abetted the Nazis. But some helped the Jews. And I should say Dr.

Honig ended up getting Madeline Counard (ph) and others officially recognized by Yad Vashem as righteous among the nations, meaning non-Jews

who helped the Jews survive.

SCIUTTO: What was it like for him to remember? You know, I mean, we saw him tear up there. Does -- is it painful?

HONIG: He is in an unusual scenario, because -- so my grandmother, for example, who I knew lived through it as a teenager. And so she was deeply

traumatized and wouldn't speak --

SCIUTTO: Sure. The memories. Yes.

HONIG: -- wouldn't speak about it, just was unable to never -- you know, he, I guess, in a weird way, was lucky. He will say this because he doesn't

have a memory, right. He was separated from his mother from birth -- a few days after birth until he was two. But he grew up without a father. He grew

up with a mother and two sisters, the only people who survived.

And he went back in 1980, when he was 38 years old, to find the people who saved him. That's how he had those photos of Madeline Counard (ph) and her

family. So, he is exceedingly grateful. He's properly grateful. He understands that he owes his life and existence to the remarkable bravery

of these primarily women who saved him.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's a great story. Thanks so much for bringing it to us.

HONIG: Thank you. I have to say, Katrina (ph), your producer did a wonderful job helping us too. So, thank you to your team.

SCIUTTO: Glad you got that e-mail. Coming up, the dangers of microplastics. I'm going to speak with the trailblazing s scientist who

first raised the alarm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:00]

SCIUTTO: Careered scientists have been sounding the alarm over microplastics. They've made their way into our oceans or drinking water

even, our brains and they are affecting our health in ways we're only beginning to understand.

My next guest started to notice them in tide pools some three decades ago, and he coined the term microplastics to describe exactly what he was

seeing.

Richard Thompson is the director of the Marine Institute at the University of Plymouth, was recently recognized as one of Time magazine's most

influential people of the year, and he joins me now. Thanks for joining, Professor.

RICHARD THOMPSON, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF PLYMOUTH MARINE INSTITUTE: Thanks for having me on the show.

SCIUTTO: I wonder if you could explain exactly what microplastics do to us and how they get into our bodies.

THOMPSON: Well, we now know that microplastics are all pervasive. They're literally in the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the food we eat.

So, it's really clear that there's a pathway to humans as there is for many other species. We know from a wide range of studies in laboratory settings

with animals that there's the potential for microplastics to cause harm.

It's harder to separate the harm from those particles effects on human health because, of course, we can't conduct lab experiments. But we are --

but another species on the planet I don't see any reason why we'd expect to be immune from the same kind of responses that we see in the animal

studies.

We're certainly starting to see emerging evidence. There's clear evidence of accumulation in the human body, and we're seeing an emerging evidence of

association between microplastics and harm in humans that mirrors some of the animal studies.

SCIUTTO: If we could imagine a future where we just stopped using these plastics, or at least stopped putting them out into the ocean, how long

would it take? Do we have any idea how long they would stay where they are, right? If we stopped adding to the volume of plastics out there, would the

environment, would our own bodies be able to eventually cleanse themselves of this, or are they there for good?

THOMPSON: I think the key thing is we have to stop. The rates of accumulation of plastic in the environment are far exceeding any capacity

that we have to manage it. So, we need to reduce production. We need to turn off the tap.

In terms of the legacy plastics that are already in the environment, it's relatively easy to pull out the bigger items, which, of course, will

fragment over time into microplastics. But once those larger items become the very small microplastics, it's virtually impossible to remove them.

But I stress that isn't a reason not to take action now on reducing the emissions to the environment on reducing the quantities of microplastic

that we would otherwise see in the future. The time to act is now.

SCIUTTO: Is there any action that is taking place now that's beginning to address these signs of hope?

THOMPSON: Well, we've got over 180 nations that have agreed to work together towards a global treaty, the U.N. treaty, to help plastic

pollution. So, there's a clear agreement now, which there wasn't when I first started working on the topic, there's clear agreement that there is a

problem, that our current production use and indeed disposal of plastics is unsustainable. There's clear agreement that we need to take action.

The challenge is, I think, on exactly what actions to take, and that's where we see some disagreement between different countries. We've had five

rounds of international negotiations through the International Negotiation Committee of the U.N. and we're having to go to an extra session, INC 5.2

in Geneva this August where I hope that we'll be able to reach an agreement. But of course, it's very difficult to get 180 nations to agree

on the best way forward.

And the challenge there is that, of course, some nations perceive they might lose out as a consequence of those agreements. And so, that's why

it's really important that we've got appropriate finance to ensure that there's a just transition, that there aren't countries that suffer as a

consequence of taking multilateral action to halt plastic pollution.

[18:50:00]

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, we appreciate the work you're doing, Richard Thompson. Thanks so much and we hope to keep in touch and hear some good

news down the line.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up in sports, it's decision time for the NFL. Our preview of the 2025 draft right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: So, if you are a football fan or an American football fan, that is, the first round of the 2025 NFL draft is going to kick off in just over

an hour. The Tennessee Titans, they will pick first, and they're widely expected to select the University of Miami quarterback Cam Ward with the

number one pick overall. Lots of questions about what follows.

CNN World Sports Coy Wire, who played nine seasons in the NFL himself, has a preview.

COY WIRE, CNN WORLD SPORT: What's up, Jim? The NFL's massive three-day spectacles about to be on. It's like lottery, drawing, fashion show,

concert, and circus all rolled into one of the world's biggest sporting events without a game even being played.

Here's a look at the top 10 picks. Tonight, picks numbers one through 10 specifically. Now, they -- really all 32 players taking in the first round

are thought to be potential game changers, franchise makers. Titans fans, you're on the clock first.

General consensus is that Tennessee will take Cam Ward, the Miami quarterback, with the first overall pick. Then at number two, most draft

analysts have the Cleveland Browns taken the Heisman Trophy winner, Travis Hunter, the two-way offensive and defensive star out of Colorado at number

two. And a big question is, what will the New York Giants do at number three? Will they take the best defensive player on the board at that point,

likely Abdul Carter out of Penn State, or could they take Deion Sanders' son, Shedeur Sanders, the quarterback out of Colorado, or maybe they'll

trade the pick away?

This was the first time since 1967, Jim, there have been no trades ahead of the draft. So, for now, every fan base has a pick tonight, for now. That

could change very quickly as the draft gets going. And when it does, lives will change forever. Dreams will come true. We're expecting to see more

than 250,000 fans attend in person over the course of the three days at the iconic Lambeau Field in Green Bay.

First round starts at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, Jim. Last year, more than 12 million people tuned in to watch the first round. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: And amazingly, no one's going to pick me. Well, in other news, K- Pop singer Bain came out to his fans live on stage during a concert this week. It's a rare move in South Korea's music industry, which keeps private

lives of its stars, very much under wraps and tightly controls how fans view their idols.

The 24-year-old who is part of the band Just B made the announcement during the Los Angeles leg of their tour, which he then posted on social media.

[18:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIN, JUST B: I want to share something with you guys. I'm proud to be a part of the LGBTQ family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Bain went on to perform Lady Gaga's "Born This Way." Most fans reacted positively, but he is only one of a tiny handful of K-pop stars to

come out publicly. Last month, Lara Raj, a member of the K-Pop girl group, KATSEYE, spoke out about her sexuality as well.

Well, in today's Good Brief now, NASA is celebrating the Hubble Space Telescope's Milestone anniversary in orbit. It began its groundbreaking

mission 35 years ago today. The space agency released this video highlighting some of the most amazing images from the telescope. NASA says

that Hubble continues to operate in good health all these years later. Still doing a great job, including with those glasses they installed a few

years ago, if you remember.

Thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:00:00]

END