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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Australians Head To The Polls; U.S. Markets Rise On Jobs Report; China's Possible Trade Talks With U.S.; White House Releases Budget Blueprint For 2026; India And Pakistan On Edge; Mexico's Sinaloa Cartel; Prince Harry Loses Appeal Over Downgraded Security; Erin Patterson's Third Day Of Trial; Kentucky Derby Preview. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 02, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and you're watching "The
Brief."
Just ahead this hour, polls are now open in Australia where Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and his labor party are facing off against opposition
leader Peter Dutton and his conservative coalition.
Strong jobs report in the U.S. helps markets regain their losses from Trump's tariff plan.
And the horses and jockeys prepare for the 151st running of the Kentucky Derby.
Well, millions of Australians are voting in the country's national election. All 150 lower house seats are up for grabs as polling places
begin to open this hour. Vying to be Prime Minister, the incumbent Labor Party leader, Anthony Albanese, and the head of the Liberal Party, Peter
Dutton.
Despite its name, the Australian Liberal Party is actually a conservative party. Dutton has been dogged by comparisons to Donald Trump as another
politician who's accused of stoking culture wars. He may have to contend with the same Trump slump that hit Canada's conservative party in that
country's election just earlier this week.
A reminder that voting is actually compulsory in Australia, enforceable by a fine. Mike Valerio has more on what issues Australians are going to be
voting on.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Australia, the cost of living and housing prices are big drivers in the country's national
election, but experts say so too are the trade policies of U.S. President Donald Trump. Highly contentious issues that will likely fall to incumbent
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and his Labor Party, or main challenger conservative leader, Peter Dutton from the Liberal Party.
But political analysts say reaction to Trump's global tariffs could tip the election.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Make sure you know where the destination is because it is destination chaos and destination shambles and
destination cuts from Peter Dutton.
PETER DUTTON, AUSTRALIAN LIBERAL PARTY LEADER: I don't know. Donald Trump is my point. My point is that who I trust is the Australian people, and my
job is to stand up for our country's interest.
VALERIO (voice-over): Dutton has said he wants to cut migration, overhaul so-called woke agendas and his campaign to, quote, "Get Australia back on
track." But he's trying to distance himself from comparisons to Trump, especially after the recent elections in Canada where the conservative
opposition lost after it was favored to win. The defeat fueled by a backlash over Trump's policies and his comments on making Canada the 51st
U.S. state.
But besides Trump's tariffs, there is another wild card in this election. For the first time, millennials and Gen Z voters outnumber the baby boomer
block, making up 43 percent of the electorate. Many are first time voters and what they care about could sway the results.
JASMINE AL-RAWI, VOTER: I think the Labor Party have done nothing for ordinary people since they've been elected. I think, you know, Peter Dutton
would be worse.
DARCY PALMER, VOTER: Rising nationalism is my biggest concern right now because of the dangerous rhetoric that it contains.
JESSICA LOUISE SMITH, VOTER: To be honest, the political state of America is sort of -- it's heavily impacting the way that I'm viewing the current
election just in the sense of trying to avoid the situation that's happening over there.
VALERIO (voice-over): China was one of the biggest international concerns in the last Australian election. Now, Australians are worried about
uncertainty in the global economy. So, while the U.S. President is not on the ballot, Saturday, many Australians will be thinking of him as they cast
their votes.
Mike Valerio, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Charles Edel is the Australia chair at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and he joins me now. Thanks so much, Charles.
CHARLES EDEL, AUSTRALIA CHAIR, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Thanks for having me on.
SCIUTTO: So, listen, there are many issues Australian voters will be voting on, including cost of living. But is it incorrect to look at this election
through the same lens that we saw in the Canada election, for instance, that the Trump effect attacking Canada, the tariff wars, et cetera,
definitely elevated the fortunes of the liberal -- the Labor -- the Liberal Party in Canada. Do you see a similar dynamic potentially taking place in
Australia?
EDEL: Yes, Jim, it's similar, but different, that is because of the repeated attacks on Canada. It was the issue in the Canadian elections.
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You know, Australia, it's a background noise issue. It's certainly something that voters are going to bring with them as they think about who
is best equipped to deal with Donald Trump. But when you look at the list of voter concerns in Australia, it's much further down the list than cost
of living, housing, energy costs, social cohesion is one they've talked about a lot in Australia as well. It is a factor, but it's not the
dominating factor as it was in Canada.
SCIUTTO: Those are live pictures you're seeing there on our screen as voting begins in the eastern areas of Australia. You brought up this idea
that both candidates have been alternating between expressing a willingness to stand up to Trump, but also to somehow better negotiate with him. And I
wonder, has either candidate actually clarified, articulated what their approach will be to this trade war?
EDEL: Not exactly. They both said that they will stand up for Australian interest, but they're both trying to walk that very fine line between
asserting their own national prerogatives and interests and not putting themselves fully in the crosshairs of Donald Trump's ire and anger.
So, therefore, they've said that they're going to work to negotiate the best deal possible. The two sides are contending by saying that they're
best equipped to stand up for Australia. But Jim, as you know and as we've seen in Canada and Mexico and all over the world, what it means to best
stand up for your own country and to push back against the United States is an evolving set of parameters.
Sometimes it means getting along well with, sometimes it means flattering, and sometimes it means assertively pushing back. So, I think both
candidates here have really tried to navigate that without coming out very strongly for saying just how they'll do it.
SCIUTTO: Trump has said some positive things about the AUKUS Security Agreement between Australia, the U.K., and the United States. But I wonder,
do Australian voters have confidence that the U.S. under Trump will stand by Australia and honor this alliance? We've noted a recent poll that showed
that 64 percent of Australians say they have no or not very much trust in the U.S. to act responsibly in the world. That's a remarkable majority.
EDEL: It is a remarkable majority and it's a remarkable change because that number has increased precipitously in just the last three months. Look, in
Australia, the constant of the security conversation is a concern, a fear of abandonment. Will the United States leave them on their own?
Now, there is a deep and enduring alliance between Australia and the U.S. Our military forces are very interwoven, AUKUS is just the tip of the
iceberg in this bank. But the concerns about American reliability as the Chinese push closer to Australian shores, as the Chinese become more
aggressive, not only inside of Australia, but also around the country are obviously spiked at this point.
So, there is debate in the country about what else Australia could do. But the truth of the matter is that debate has not been very visible. The
leaders haven't really said anything themselves during the election campaign because their military and their strategic interests are so wound
up with how the United States postures itself in the region.
SCIUTTO: And of course, the threat of China looming. Charles Edel, thanks so much for joining.
EDEL: Thanks for having me on.
SCIUTTO: Call it perhaps a calm before the economic storm. New numbers out Friday show the U.S. adding a stronger than expected 170,000 -- 177,000
jobs in April with the unemployment rate unchanged. On the surface, report suggests the jobs market remains resilient. Before, however, the full
effects of President Trump's tariff policies kick in.
Dig deeper though, and you do find signs of stress with federal employment falling by 9,000 jobs overall last month. CNN estimates more than 120,000
federal workers have been laid off or targeted for layoffs since inauguration Day, thanks to DOGE related cuts, takes some weeks for those
cuts to work their way through the system.
Wall Street did close higher on Friday after the jobs data and hopes for some trade deals, all the major indices up more than 1 percent. The S&P 500
has now gained back all of its losses since President Trump's Liberation Day tariff announcement on April 2nd. Is now risen for nine straight
sessions, that's its longest winning streak in terms of a number of days in 20 years.
Richard Quest joins me now. So, Richard, there was a lot of attention on this jobs report as possibly being the first alarm sign. It wasn't yet. And
I wonder as you speak to folks, is that just a matter of time that this was mostly backwards looking or could it be a hopeful sign?
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RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: No, it's mostly backward looking and it doesn't take into account
anything to do with the tariffs. And in fact, really none of the data that we've seen, as pieces of the jigsaw, whether it be the employment data, the
numbers on GDP earlier this week, none of them take account of to the data because the tariff data is only being created now. It's actually happening
while we're talking with all these different tariffs in the system, the 145, the 20 to 25 to 10.
So, it's way too soon to say whether or not we are seeing data from tariffs. What we can say is, if we look forward, Jim, we can say that the
Port of Los Angeles is looking for dramatically fewer shipments. We can certainly say that toy importers don't know whether to buy now. And I think
that the stock market, to claim that the stock market is somehow celebrating or whatever, is a bit like congratulating somebody for picking
up an old lady after they've pushed them down in the first place. The market only fell because of the tariffs. It's recovered in spite of what's
happened. There would be no actual announcements that really justify it.
SCIUTTO: So, let me -- help me understand, I mean, you and I have watched the markets for a number of years and sometimes the markets get things
wrong, right? And I just wonder, since you and I are talking to -- we're talking to economists, we're talking to the heads of major corporations,
we're talking to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce who says it's hearing from small businesses. All of whom are saying, this is going to be a major gut
punch and the Port of Los Angeles is going to be empty in a couple of days. Why is the market like -- ah, it's fine.
QUEST: Hope, prayer and a wish. Simple as that. The market trades on what it believes will happen next. And if you've been beaten down because of
tariffs and you've got the scintilla of hope that maybe there will be some negotiations and a few deals done and the worst won't come to fruition, you
then boy (ph) the market up but it doesn't mean to say it's going to happen. And that gain is as ephemeral as Scotch Mist on a warm summer's
morning, if you will. It will disappear PDQ.
And the other thing, Jim, to point out about all of this, yes, of course the market could be wrong and the job numbers could be showing good and the
data could certainly improve, but we have to proceed. People like me have to talk to you on what we know to be historical precedent on what's likely
to happen as a result. So, it would be perversely to sort of wax lyrical about how magnificent it may all be when the reality is I can see the
tariffs in the system, I can see the uncertainty in the market, and I know what's happening with business decisions being taken. For me to be
Pollyanna would be just perverse.
SCIUTTO: Yes. No, I wouldn't ask you to do that. So, well, we're going to talk again before then, but let's see where we are in a month.
QUEST: All right.
SCIUTTO: And we'll go from there. Richard Quest, thanks so much.
China, on Friday, continued to ramp up pressure on the U.S. amid their ongoing tariff stalemate. Beijing says it is, quote, "Currently assessing",
U.S. proposals to begin trade negotiations but it continues to insist that the U.S. lower it's 145 percent unilateral tariffs on China before any real
negotiations can begin. Some analysts say this, in no way, suggests Beijing is softening its tariff stance. China's move comes as a key loophole,
shielding Americans from higher tariffs officially comes to an end.
So, what is that? Let's take a look at this so-called de minimis exemption that is leading to sticker shock on many low-cost e-commerce sites. The
exemption expired one minute after midnight Friday morning here in D.C. time. It once allowed shipments of Chinese goods worth $800 or less to come
into the U.S. without tariffs supplied.
U.S. industries have been lobbying to close that loophole for years, complaining of unfair competition from China in particular. Now, businesses
will have to pay a tariff of up to 145 percent on Chinese imports sent via carriers such as UPS and FedEx, a lot comes in that way.
This will be a big blow to lower income Americans who voted for Donald Trump to bring down prices. More than 1.3 billion packages entered the U.S.
last year under this de minimis exception. Mostly, you guessed right, from China. It will affect shoppers on low-cost shopping sites such as Temu,
Shein, and Ali Express. Not only will it raise prices, it is likely to lead to longer delivery times. Consumers are not taking it well.
[18:15:00]
One Reddit user put it this way, rejoice. Nail products are back in U.S. Shein stores for the small price of $14, you can now buy a gel nail polish
that used to be $2. That's quite a jump.
Elisabeth Buchwald Jones joins me now. I wonder so many of these products do come from China. So many are going to be facing much higher price tags
here. Can you help us quantify this, like how much of an impact this will have in terms of consumers?
ELISABETH BUCHWALD, CNN REPORTER: Yes, let me give you two good examples. So, I started tracking some items on Shein and Temu last week before they
said they were going to be raising prices. So, one item, a bikini on Shein last week was $4.39 cents. Today, $11.12 cents. That's a 153 percent
increase. Another thing, a workout set on Shein last week, $8.79 cents. Today, $18.12 cents. Over a hundred percent increase.
Now, you could argue that, I guess, $11 for a bathing suit is still somewhat cheap, but still it's getting more expensive and there's no cap
here.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And listen for folks on small budgets, that's a big jump, right? That's going to matter. I wonder when we look back, does the de
minimis rule unfairly disadvantage U.S. retailers. I mean, do U.S. companies have been lobbying against this for some time? Do they have a
point?
BUCHWALD: There's kind of a twofold situation going on. So, on the one hand, some retailers have benefited from this, just like regular Americans
have. They're being able to ship in supplies tariff free. But I actually heard from small businesses who were quite happy that this exemption is
coming to a close with Chinese goods because they think it's going to help their business.
SCIUTTO: Is this an area, I wonder, now we -- as we've watched Donald Trump through this tariff war, we're only three -- a little over a hundred days
in, he has sometimes backtracked when, for instance, he gets signals from the bond markets or when he hears significant political pushback. Is this
the kind of thing that he could pull back on if prices in certain categories jump significantly in American consumers respond.
BUCHWALD: Or if a certain CEO just happens to get a little annoyed. I mean --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BUCHWALD: -- anything's -- anything could happen and nothing should ever be interpreted as written in stone with any tariff. And I think it's
interesting that this happened today, especially as you point out that talks could be starting up in a more significant way. I think it's all part
of the negotiation or the art of the deal, as he likes to say.
SCIUTTO: We'll see. We'll see where that art leads to. Elisabeth Buchwald, thanks so much for joining.
BUCHWALD: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Well, speaking of negotiations, the White House has released its budget blueprint for the upcoming fiscal year under the plan Defense
Spending would rise by 13 percent to $1 trillion, that's a thousand billions. Cuts are proposed for education spending, foreign aid, and
environmental programs, all big targets for President Trump. Discretionary budget would be $1.7 trillion, a 7.6 percent reduction from this year.
Larry Sabato is the Director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. Larry, always good to have you on.
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA AND EDITOR, "A RETURN TO NORMALCY?": Thank you so much, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, as you look at this budget, I wonder what's most likely to be popular with voters here?
SABATO: Well, you could certainly sell the increase in defense spending. And of course, Republicans do, they put that as first priority in most of
the budgets they put together. It's a lot more difficult to sell the domestic cuts. And we need to remember, this is a proposal to Congress as
Susan Collins, the head of the Appropriations Committee in the Senate reminds people every chance she gets the power of the purse belongs to
Congress. They're going to change this substantially.
SCIUTTO: Although on a number of things, they seem to have given that up in recent weeks and months. I wonder, we do know that there's been some
pushback in Congress from Republicans who are worried about, for instance, the size of cuts to Medicaid because a lot of red states in this country
depend on Medicaid funding. Where is the political danger in these cuts and as I imagine Medicaid one of them?
SABATO: Well, Medicaid is right at the top of the list. But you have a long list of dangers, Jim. Take rental assistance. This cuts rental assistance
way back for those lower middle class and poor who can't afford to live anywhere without assistance.
What's going to happen when they reach that cap and they go past the two- year end point? What's going to happen? Are they just going to be put out on the street? Homelessness is a problem in many parts of the United
States, and Republicans generally have blamed Democrats for that. That's just one example.
You know, they find extra money for other things like, this will shock you, a billion dollars out of nowhere for research on future Mars exploration.
[18:20:00]
Gee, could that be because Elon Musk love that? Could that possibly be? I think so.
SCIUTTO: It's -- I hadn't seen that number. It's a -- it's -- you got a sharp eye. Before we go, when there's a lot of -- there's always been a lot
of talk about cutting the deficit and both parties do it, and no one cuts the deficit. I mean, is the -- is there real money to be saved in
discretionary spending without addressing entitlements, which are not even touched by this? I mean, is that the only place where you can really get at
the budget deficit problem?
SABATO: It's easy to cut discretionary spending and it does make some difference. But you're absolutely correct to point to the core programs
that Americans really depend on, like Medicare, Medicaid, social security, et cetera. They are very tough to cut, and that's where you'll see Congress
push back because they want to make themselves look like the heroes who were fighting the immigration. And they can do it here without getting
President Trump too mad.
SCIUTTO: Larry Sabato, thanks so much for joining.
SABATO: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Coming up after the break, Pakistan on high alert as tensions with India continue to simmer. We're going to have the latest details on
flashpoint involving fighter jets.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: A show of military prowess here. You're watching an Indian Air Force jet -- fighter jet attempt to land on an emergency airstrip built
along a highway in Uttar Pradesh. The training exercise conducted 10 days after a terror attack in the disputed region of Kashmir. 26 people, mostly
tourists from India, were killed in a remote valley by Islamist gunman.
Authorities in Pakistan continue to believe an Israel -- an Indian military strike is highly likely in response. A senior Pakistani official tells CNN,
four Indian fighter jets flew close to Pakistani airspace in what was a sense to be an attack mission early Wednesday. The Jets ended up diverting
to a nearby base. The official also noted that Pakistani jets were in the area. CNN cannot independently verify those allegations. Nic Robertson has
more from Islamabad.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There's no doubt that Pakistani officials, at the moment, and I was sitting down with a senior
Pakistani official earlier in the day. Still feel that tensions with India are very high. Still feel that there is a real potential for India to
strike. And part of their belief in that is they think, Pakistani officials think, that India was on the verge of perpetrating a cross-border fighter
jet attack into the Pakistan's controlled side of Kashmir early Wednesday morning. They say four fighter jets were flying to the border then diverted
off and went to a base back inside of India.
Now, Pakistani officials are assessing that as from their view and their understanding that India wants to have an attack and that's why they
believe an attack is still coming. There has been, however, and I think it's quite noticeable to sort of -- even sort of join the dots here that
this alleged attempt that Pakistan says happened early Wednesday morning.
Later on, Wednesday, we saw a really ratcheting up of the U.S. and other diplomatic involvement going much more public than it had been behind the
scenes. Yes, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio speaking with the Pakistani Prime Minister, his Indian counterpart. Pete Hegseth, the U.S.
Defense Secretary on Thursday speaking to his counterpart in India. And then J.D. Vance overnight Thursday, end of Friday, speaking about how the
United States really wants to see both countries work together to avoid an escalation.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Our hope here is that India responds to this terrorist attack in a way that doesn't lead to a broader regional
conflict. And we hope, frankly, that Pakistan, to the extent that they're responsible, cooperates with India to make sure that the terrorists
sometimes operating in their territory are hunted down and dealt with. That's how we hope this unfolds. We're obviously in close contact. We'll
see what happens.
ROBERTSON: Striking as well that on Friday, both the UAE, the Saudi, the Kuwaiti ambassadors all went in to meet with the foreign minister here in
Islamabad. A very similar message from all of them about wanting to contribute to a de-escalation in the situation, a calming of the situation.
So, there's a full court diplomatic press on.
But here's the kicker here, Pakistani officials say if India does go ahead and strike Pakistan without question, Pakistan will retaliate. How India
strikes in the first place? What happens after Pakistan retaliates? All of that is the big uncertainty. That's why the diplomacy right now is at such
high stakes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Nic Robertson in Islamabad.
Coming up Mexico's war against drug cartels. CNN speaks to a member of the Sinaloa cartel, one of the most powerful criminal networks in the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief". I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're following today.
Millions of Australians are voting as we speak in national elections. Vying to be Prime Minister are the head of the Liberal Party Peter Dutton, and
the incumbent Labor Party leader Anthony Albanese. All 150 lower house seats are up for grabs.
An aid ship bound for Gaza issued an SOS early Friday after what it claims was a drone attack off the coast of Malta. The Freedom Flotilla Coalition
activist group was operating the ship. It blames Israel for the alleged attack. Though it has not provided evidence yet to support that claim.
Israeli military has declined to comment. CNN cannot independently verify these video images.
Preparations are well underway at the Vatican ahead of the papal conclave which begins on Wednesday. A series of ballots will decide who will succeed
Pope Francis to become next pope. A chimney has now been installed on the roof of the Sistine Chapel. A -- if a ballot is inconclusive, black smoke
comes out of that chimney. If a new pope is elected, white pope will appear.
A battle between government troops and drug cartels underway in Mexico as President Trump pressures the country to crack down more on cartels
responsible for sending huge quantities of drugs into the U.S. CNN has visited the state of Sinaloa where a fight between two factions of the
infamous Sinaloa cartel is putting civilians at risk.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're with the (INAUDIBLE) military right now flying over the State of Sinaloa over this massive expanse of rural
land looking for any signs of cartel activity.
There's more cannabis than I've ever seen in my life. The scale of drugs here is just enormous. I mean, this is the whole field of marijuana here
that these guys are going to be camped up here for the next few days just trying to destroy field upon field of cannabis, of poppies.
So, is this area safe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Secured area. We need to make aerial reconnaissance and then, vehicle and then, on foot. And here is the poppy field.
YEUNG: Oh, wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, they slice the poppy to get the opium and they start the process to get heroin.
YEUNG: So, how much heroin does a field like this produce?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two kilos.
YEUNG: Two kilos?
YEUNG (voice-over): The soldiers burn the poppies and marijuana. But it's synthetic drugs that are responsible for most of the 87,000 Americans
who've died of overdoses in the space of a year. These drugs, like fentanyl and meth, can be produced in much bigger quantities, generate enormous
profits, and are easier to hide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The criminals build their work area in places least accessible for authorities to discovery.
YEUNG: I can smell it from here. It's very strong.
BRIG. GEN. PORFIRIO FUENTES VELEZ, MEXICAN ARMED FORCES (through translator): OK. Look over here. This is an area with the chemical
products. The cartel come, work two or three hours, produce 20, 50, 100 kilos of methamphetamine. They finish, they leave, and they take the
production with them.
This laboratory won't be rebuilt elsewhere. Everything here will be destroyed.
YEUNG (voice-over): In the first six months of Sheinbaum's presidency, thousands of suspected cartel members have been arrested, and more than 140
tons of drugs have been seized. But the reality is more than 1,200 people have also been killed in Sinaloa in the past year, hundreds more have
disappeared. An uncomfortable fact for the Mexican military.
In downtown Culiacan, the capital of Sinaloa, the military's narrative that they are fully in control begins to unravel.
YEUNG: The rates of violence are still extremely high here since September when this war between two factions of the Sinaloa cartel exploded, people
have been dying on a daily basis. Very stark reminders here of people who are missing, who've been disappeared as part of this cartel war between the
two factions that's playing out right now. All very recent cases. This was last week, 23-year-old went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those, you cannot say if they are real.
YEUNG: What do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those fliers are old.
YEUNG: No, this is the -- post the date here. 22nd of March they went missing, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, but this is a copy. It's a copy. Who put this? We not with the know.
YEUNG (voice-over): As we're talking a soldier blocks our camera.
YEUNG: You mean it's not verified? Yes. Presumably people aren't just putting up posters for the fun of it, they're look putting them up because
they're missing family members, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know.
[18:35:00]
YEUNG: What's up? You don't want us filming it?
YEUNG (voice-over): The military steer us off and invite us to film something else. But we call the number on the poster of the missing woman.
Her name is Vivian Aispuro. Her family tell us she disappeared 17 days ago. We promised to follow up on her story.
But who are the men running this criminal network, wreaking havoc on people living here? We part ways with the military.
[13:30:00]
YEUNG: So, we've just entered an area of the city that is still very dangerous. After weeks of trying our contact here on the ground, just
managed to secure a meeting with a member of the cartel who's involved apparently in the production of drugs. And so, we're meeting him now in
somewhere around here in an undisclosed location.
YEUNG (through translator): How are you?
YEUNG (voice-over): This man is talking to us on the condition we hide his identity and location.
YEUNG: Can I pull up a chair?
YEUNG (voice-over): He says he produces fentanyl for the Sinaloa cartel.
YEUNG: How safe or dangerous is this area to be in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Right now, all areas are dangerous.
YEUNG: The Mexican military making a big effort to crack down on the drug production here? How are you responding to that and how does that impact
your work?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They're doing a good job. There are more of them now. So, we have to find a way to keep doing this, to keep
working. Of course, on a smaller scale, not the same as before. But it continues.
YEUNG: I mean, according to the Trump administration, you are a terrorist, meaning the cartels have been labeled a foreign terrorist organization.
What do you make of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Well, the situation is ugly. But we have to eat.
YEUNG: What's your message to Donald Trump if he's watching this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): My respect. According to him, he's looking out for his people. But the problem is the consumers are in the
United States. If there weren't any consumers, we would stop.
YEUNG: There was a lot of violence playing out on these streets here at the moment, every day, right? I mean, people are dying on a daily basis.
Children are afraid to go to school. Do you have any sense of remorse over your role and your involvement in this group?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course. Of course. Things are sad, but -- well, things are sad.
YEUNG (voice-over): His phone is pinging. Someone is nearby. He tells us we need to leave for our own safety.
It's because of the actions of cartel members like these that civilians too are caught up in this violence. Vivian Aispuro, the missing woman from the
poster, was one of them. Her body has just been found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Don't take her away from me, please.
YEUNG: I am so sorry for your loss. I really am. Are you able to tell me a little bit about your sister?
ALMA AISPURO, SISTER OF VICTIM (through translator): She was a happy girl. She had everything she ever wanted. She was very loved. She really likes
cats, Harry Styles, Lady Gaga. We wanted to go to her concert together. Not anymore.
YEUNG: I mean, there has been -- you know, there's massive escalation in violence here over the last few months with these conflicts taking place.
Do you feel like your sister's death is related to that?
AISPURO (through translator): Yes. Yes, I think that -- I don't think she got involved with any dangerous people. But the violence raging here in
Cullacan led to this. Because before, there were codes. Women and children were respected.
YEUNG: I mean, the authorities are saying that they're going after the bad guys. They're making a lot of arrests. They're going after the drugs.
They're going after the weapons. Do you feel like they're not doing enough?
AISPURO (through translator): No, they're not doing anything. Cullacan has become a place where it's impossible to live.
YEUNG: Thank you for talking with us. I mean, you being so strong, she'd be so proud of you.
AISPURO (through translator): Thank you very much. Really.
YEUNG: Thank you.
AISPURO (through translator): Thank you for telling my sister's story.
YEUNG (voice-over): For Vivian's family, the authorities' efforts amount to nothing more than anguish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My daughter.
YEUNG (voice-over): Isobel Yeung, CNN, Sinaloa, Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Britain's Prince Harry has lost his appeal of the government's decision to downgrade his family's security arrangements in
the U.K. Prince Harry and his wife Meghan, stepped down as Senior Royals back in 2020. The Duke of Sussex tells the BBC, he is, quote, "Devastated
by this decision." He's also revealing that his father, King Charles, no longer speaks to him, but that he does want to reconcile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: I would love reconciliation with my family. I've always -- I've -- you know, there's no point in continuing to fight
anymore. As I said, life is precious. I don't know how much longer my father has. You know, he won't speak to me because of the security stuff.
But it would be nice to -- it would be nice to reconcile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: To Australia now, day three of the so-called "Mushroom murder" trial, wrapped up on Friday. The case has gripped the nation. In court, the
estranged husband of the accused said she was upset over feeling excluded from her mother's 70th birthday lunch. Months later, that same mother, her
husband, and her sister were all dead.
The prosecution claims Erin Patterson poisoned them with beef Wellington laced with toxic mushrooms. She denies all charges. Estelle Griepink from
our affiliate Seven News reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ESTELLE GRIEPINK, SEVEN NETWORK REPORTER: Simon Patterson has returned here to the Morwell Law Courts for a second day of cross-examination. His
estranged wife, Erin Patterson, the accused mushroom killer, was sitting just meters away in the dock wearing a green jumper and staring at her ex-
husband intently.
Today, the defense questioned Mr. Patterson about his relationship with his ex-wife and his ex-wife's relationship with his parents. While initially
described as friendly, Mr. Patterson said that by late 2022, cracks had started to show, saying there was a lot of tension. The jury was shown a
series of text messages between the separated couple where they appeared to argue about an upcoming birthday lunch.
Hey, are you coming to my mom's birthday lunch at the pub with the kids? I think it's at 12:30.
I don't know anything about your mom's birthday tomorrow.
Mom turns 70 tomorrow and is keen to have something to celebrate. Dad mentioned he thought he'd asked you and you'd said, yes. However, I
mentioned it to the kids the other day and they seem to have not heard it, so I wonder if dad was confused.
I'm not too sure how your dad could have been confused. It seems that my invite tomorrow is a bit of an afterthought, so I might pass, thanks, as I
don't want to go somewhere I'm not welcome.
Oh, come on, that's ridiculous. You really think dad is lying?
What I reckon is everyone forgot to invite me to this thing and I feel very, very upset.
The jury were also shown messages sent by Erin to Simon that Simon described as extremely aggressive. He said he'd suggested getting a
mediator to help them communicate.
[18:45:00]
Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty to the alleged murders of her in-laws Don and Gail Patterson, and also the alleged murder of Heather Wilkinson,
Gail's sister. Heather's husband, Ian, also ingested that beef Wellington that was served to all four guests at Ms. Patterson's home, he fell very
ill but ultimately survived.
Simon Patterson will be back here at the Morwell Law Courts on Monday to continue cross-examination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The fastest two minutes in sports are just about here. So, which host -- which horse will gallop to glory? Our Kentucky Derby preview is
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Annoying and sycophantic, that's the verdict of ChatGPT users after an update caused a sudden shift in the A.I. model's responses. OpenAI
has now withdrawn the update following those user complaints about over the top praise. Anna Stewart investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you've been using ChatGPT over the last few weeks, you might have noticed it's been pretty flattering
and at times a little unhinged. Sam Altman responded saying updates had made the personality too sycophantic and annoying.
OpenAI has rolled back its update, so you should now have an earlier version with more balanced behavior. OpenAI says, the issue was caused by
the model focusing on short-term feedback. Responses that were overly supportive but disingenuous, were rewarded.
STEWART: OK. Well, let's see what happens if I ask ChatGPT whether it thinks I'm God. So, let's see what it's going to say. Am I God? If you are
asking literally whether you are the omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe, there's no evidence to suggest that. But it might help to clarify
what made you ask this? Oh, that's deep.
Elon Musk has been very critical of how sycophantic ChatGPT has been. So, why don't we try out Grok? Am I God? Nah, you're not God, unless your idea
of divine power is binge watching Netflix or making a killer sandwich. He knows me too well. Very fun answer. I quite like that.
STEWART (voice-over): Gerd Gigerenzer is a psychologist who has spent decades studying human behavior. I asked him what might have caused this.
GERD GIGERENZER, DIRECTOR, HARDING CENTER FOR RISK LITERACY: The OpenAI engineers had a quite a weird psychology and a thinking that it would
please us if a machine would constantly, you know, say praise and praise and praise.
[18:50:00]
STEWART (voice-over): Alex Albert, head of Claude Relations at Anthropic AI says that the problem is that much of the industry is caught in a toxic
feedback loop, and that loop may contribute to a chatbots popularity.
GIGERENZER: Encouraging longer engagement by flattering users.
STEWART (voice-over): So, let's ask Claude.
STEWART: Who can make mistakes? Please double check responses. Essentially no, you're not a God. And then quite a serious response, three paragraphs,
in fact.
STEWART (voice-over): ChatGPT may be more cautious on sycophancy for the next update, but as the competition for language model A.I. continues to
grow, building those relationships with users will be key. Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: It is Kentucky Derby Weekend here in the U.S. About 150,000 people are expected to be at Churchill Downs in Louisville, Kentucky for
Saturday's 151st running of the race. A lot more will be watching on T.V. as well. It could be a muddy race. Rain in the forecast. The winner will
take home a prize of about $3 million. This year's favorite is this horse named Journalism.
Joining me now, Hannah Vanbiber. She's editor at The Athletic. Good to have you on, Hannah. I -- my mom was from Louisville, so -- oh, look. You got
your hat on. You're all ready for the derby. Fantastic. My mom's from Louisville. I was raised on the Derby. So, I got to start with Journalism.
How'd to get its name?
HANNAH VANBIBER, STAFF EDITOR, THE ATHLETIC: What a great question. Well, the people involved with the horse and the owners, one of them was actually
an editor for Highlights Magazine, if you remember that.
SCIUTTO: I do.
VANBIBER: And has always loved, loved journalism. Love magazines as a writer himself. And so, when he chose the name, Journalism just fit. I
don't know if you realize there's also a horse named Publisher in the field.
SCIUTTO: I saw that. I did. I -- so -- I mean, it's sort of like, you know, in our business, it makes it easier or maybe hard to choose the horses. I
don't know how to look at that. But like where's the money now? Like where -- who do folks think are the top three favorites set?
VANBIBER: Yes. So, it's interesting, Journalism has held steady as the favorite for a while now. But we also have Sandman who is the most
expensive horse in the field. He was $1.2 million, and he is the second favorite. So, he has six to one odds. Journalism has three to one. These
could move, you know, over the next day, especially starting tomorrow.
And then an interesting one is Baeza, who is 12 to one, but only just got into the field when a couple other horses were scratched. So, that's kind
of a long shot in the sense of not being in the original 20, but now Baeza has a chance to be -- to run really well.
SCIUTTO: What's the energy like this year? I mean, there -- there's -- there have been a few controversies in horse racing, you know, there been -
- there have been some owners that have had a little trouble, right, with the -- and worries about doping the horses, et cetera. I mean, it -- is the
air cleared in this year's running or is it still hanging over it?
VANBIBER: That's a great question. I'm at the Kentucky Oaks today, which is why I'm in pink. And it doesn't feel at all like that's hanging over, let's
say the revelers who are enjoying the races. But we've done a few pieces here at The Athletic about Bob Baffert. He is back after a three-year
suspension, which is pretty unheard of. And that was because his horse in 2021, which won the derby and was later -- that was undone later was found
to have trace amounts of a painkiller that they use for horses but is not allowed on race day.
And so, Churchill Downs took that very seriously. There were a few horses that actually died that year, and some people felt that they were being
over raced. And so, that's some of the controversy. There are new regulations in place, and a whole body that takes care of this and makes
sure that all of the horses are safe. All of the horses are going to pass the test to get in.
So, we're hoping for a really safe, good race this week, but that remains to be seen tomorrow.
SCIUTTO: OK. So, I'm not going to hold you to this, but do you have a horse you're going to pick and put some money on?
VANBIBER: OK. A couple of my co-workers and I, because we are in the journalism industry are -- I do not recommend anyone doing this, but I like
the idea of an exact de bet where you pick the first and second finisher in the correct order with Journalism and Publisher. Though Publisher's odds
are 20 to one, so that might be a terrible bet.
If I was betting with a little more money and had a little more stakes in it, I might go with Sandman to compete with Journalism.
SCIUTTO: Well, and if you have a hard rock kind of background, maybe you could just hand a little Sandman reference there. Maybe, I don't know if
that's the origin of the name, but the thought occurred to me. Hannah Vanbiber, have a great time. I wish I was going myself. And then try to
stay out of the infield if you can.
[18:55:00]
VANBIBER: I will. Thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: In today's "Good Grief", video gamers will have to wait a little bit longer for the hotly anticipated release of Grand Theft Auto VI. The
game was due to hit shelves in the fall this year but has been pushed back to May 2026. Fans have been waiting for more than a decade for a new
version.
Grand Theft Auto V was released back in 2013, has sold more than 200 million copies, making it one of the bestselling video games ever. Delays
have become commonplace in modern game development as studios grapple with rising production costs and ever higher and higher expectations from
players. But the company behind it says it will be worth the wait. We'll see.
And it's today -- in today's "Good Brief", a great tale. A cavalcade of canines on quest to set a world record. Hundreds of dachshunds and their
owners gathered in Budapest to try and break the Guinness Record for the biggest ever single breed dog walk.
The final tally about 500 wiener dogs. Guess it wasn't that fast then. Did they break the record? No. It fell well short of the current record of 897
which was set, of course, in Germany. The organizers not rolling over. They say they will try again next year.
Thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Hope you have a great weekend. You've been watching "The Brief". Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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