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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

India Launches Military Operation Against Pakistan; CNN Speaks With Pakistani Military Spokesperson; Video Shows Moment Of Strike In Easter Pakistan. Aired 5:30-6p ET

Aired May 06, 2025 - 17:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:29]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Brief," I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.

We begin early today with breaking news. India launching a military operation targeting what it calls terrorist infrastructure inside Pakistan

and Pakistan administered Kashmir.

Those the sounds of explosions during those strikes. India says it struck nine targets, adding that none of them are Pakistani military facilities. A

Pakistani military spokesperson says the country will respond to those attacks, adding that at least three people have been killed in the Indian

strikes.

This comes after gunmen killed 26 people in Indian-administered Kashmir last month. India blamed Pakistan for those attacks.

Nic Robertson is live now in Islamabad, and it's worth reminding our viewers that these are two nuclear-armed nations that have fired at each

other before.

Tell us what the situation is now and concerns about escalation.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (on-camera): There's a real concern about escalation. Pakistan vowed that if India attacked, that

they would respond. That was part of their military doctrine. They believe, and I've been speaking over the past few days with very senior, very senior

security officials here, and they believe that this incident inside Indian- controlled Kashmir, where 26 civilians were killed, that India blamed on Pakistan, that Pakistan denied.

They believe that this had now come, the relations with India had now come to a moment, a defining moment, where Pakistan needs to take a definitive

stand, because India has threatened to cut off water supplies coming down three major rivers, vital, existential. Security officials described the

water from those rivers.

So, this is a sort of context to why that this is at a moment of extreme potential escalation. Pakistani security officials are saying that they are

right now, their air force right now is in the throes of delivering what they describe as a crushing blow to India as a response for this strike.

Previously, when I've spoken with Pakistani officials over the past few days, they've said that if India's retaliatory strike, which they thought

was coming, they said if it just came in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, that would be something that would be more easily tolerable than striking

Pakistan proper, if you will.

At least two of the strikes we understand this evening, and we're getting these early details, are in Pakistan proper. This tells me, from what the

officials have been speaking about, that this will demand from the Pakistani side a much higher level of response.

Again, this speaks to the potential for escalation. How does India respond to this? One of those strikes in Muridke inside Pakistan proper was

literally just about 20 miles from the border with India. So, for their fighter jets, if that's what it was, to come over and strike, that was a

relatively easy operation.

However, these strikes have been on the audible, if you will, outskirts of Islamabad. Our cameraman here with me, Javed (ph), his house is about an

hour from where we are in the center of Islamabad. His house shook. There were two loud explosions, he said, and his house shook from those

explosions.

So that gives you an idea how close some of the strikes have been to Islamabad, perhaps about 50, 60, 70 kilometers away. The other explosions I

was describing that have happened elsewhere in Pakistan have also been near the major city of Lahore, the sort of very outer reaches of that.

So, again, these are very strong signals, if you will, that the Indian military is sending to the Pakistani government. Again, it speaks to the

potential for escalation. We have to wait and see what Pakistan's response is, what it's been. They describe it as crushing. We don't have details

yet. And what and therefore what India may do after that.

Jim?

SCIUTTO: Nic, I wonder, given that India's strikes, and this is notable to your point, struck both inside Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and inside

Pakistan proper, is it reasonable to expect that crushing blow, as Pakistani officials are describing it, might do the same in kind? That is,

strike inside Indian-administered Kashmir, but also perhaps inside India itself?

[17:35:10]

ROBERSTON (on-camera): I think there's a genuine potential for that. And the military here have released pictures of some of the victims of the

overnight attack from India.

And the first assessment of the Pakistani military here is that they only have civilian casualties. And some of the images they released show women

and children blooded and inside a hospital. So again, the fact that women and children have been injured beyond military-age males is going to, if

you will, ratchet up the potential for response.

Now, Pakistan's military is describing the casualties that they've seen so far as civilian casualties. It's unclear to me whether Pakistan would

strike back at military targets or if they would strike back beyond that. If they strike back at military targets, there's a potential that

escalation doesn't get out of hand.

But this is -- the tensions have been hugely high, that Pakistani security officials believe this is an existential moment. The fact that the water to

the country that powers a lot of the electricity generation here that's absolutely vital, that's vital for agriculture, they feel that is an

existential issue and, therefore, their response was going to be accordingly strong from that perspective.

It's very unclear to me where it will go from here. But the language has been very, very clear. If you track it -- and I've been coming here for

about, well, over 25 years. I first came here when Pakistan and India were fighting another one of their major skirmishes, which killed thousands of

troops high in the Himalayan mountains inside of Kashmir, the Kargil Battle that lasted several months.

The language has become much harder and tougher in Pakistan from the military since then. This is an army, remember, that's been fighting an

insurgency on their western border that has actually become increasingly ferocious as the security situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and

Islamist militants have used Afghanistan as a base and attacked into Pakistan with ferocity, that the army here over the past couple of decades

has become tougher and stronger militarily in their ethos, in their outlook, and one can even say in their leadership.

So there is a very strong and toughened military from Pakistan's perspective, but also from their -- the way their leadership evaluates the

battle space and relation with neighbors. It's quite -- in military terms, it's a tough leadership right now.

SCIUTTO: And, Nic, drawing on your experience of previous high-points intentions, just personally I remember being in India and Pakistan some 20

years ago in the 2000s when there was concern that there might be an escalation even to a nuclear exchange, granted just concern and of course

that didn't come to be. But place this current standoff in recent historical context in terms of how severe the tensions are today.

ROBERTSON (on-camera): To give it a sort of -- I'll try to give it a simple context here. You have a tougher and, if you will, more forward-leaning

military. You have a military that, in the estimation of most Pakistani civilians, has a big influence in the running of the country.

So, there's that perspective. It's a tougher, more forward-leaning, more robust outlook, and national security decisions would reflect that. That

this tension has been growing, as you say, it's unresolved for 75 years since the dispute over Kashmir left unresolved in 1947 after the British

Empire, you know, basically divided India into two countries, Pakistan and India.

Pakistan, of course, Muslim majority, India, Hindu majority. They fought three major wars in the intervening period. 1971 was one of the biggest,

and various skirmishes as recently as 2019 and more subsequently.

But in the outlook of where the situation is, it is the fact that India has decided to shut off water from these three major rivers that feed

Pakistan's agriculture, therefore economy, therefore to more than 200 million population, and power generation, which is vital, particularly in

the summer when it gets extremely hot. It's needed for air conditionings, running industry.

[17:40:02]

So, these are existential issues for Pakistan at the moment. And that's, I think, that will underpin the thinking and has been expressed to me by very

senior security officials here that the water issue is key.

And I think just to give a little bit of an addition background on the water, this is something that was being litigated in courts in recent

months, and the Pakistani perception is that India had been looking for a legal way to abrogate the terms of that in this water treaty signed in

1960, has been looking for a legal way to do that in recent months, and that take them this particular killing of 26 civilians as a rational and

reason to immediately jump to that position.

So, this is something Pakistan has seen coming and therefore they believed that this is not just a sudden decision by India, it's something that

pushing for.

SCIUTTO: Brewing for some time. Nic Robertson, thanks so much. Please stay safe where you are.

Joining me now is a spokesman for the Pakistani military, Lieutenant General Ahmed Sharif.

Lieutenant General, thanks so much for taking the time.

AHMED SHARIF, PAKISTANI MILITARY, LIEUTENANT GENERAL: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So we hear from Pakistan's military, and I'm quoting here, that this heinous provocation, which is how it's describing the Indian attacks,

will not go answered. And my colleague there said he has been told that Pakistan will deliver a crushing blow in response.

Can you characterize in any way how Pakistan is intending to respond?

SHARIF: Thank you. I would like to first inform you that today -- tonight, it was an unprovoked and blatant act of war.

Once the Indian government, on their instructions, the Indian Air Force, while they remained within the Indian airspace, violated Pakistan's

sovereignty. And they're using the standoff weapons, they have targeted civilian population across international border at two places, that is

Muridke and Bahawalpur, and at three places across line of control at Muzaffarabad, Kotli and Bagh. That is in Azad Jammu and Kashmir, which is a

disputed territory.

They targeted the places of worships, the mosques, the places of worships of Muslims. The Indian armed forces have martyred innocent civilians, which

include women and children. During this process, the Indians also caused great threat to commercial airplanes as part of their flagrant aggression.

We strongly condemn this cowardly action of India, which is in any form a flagrant violation of the United Nations Charter, international law, and

all established norms of interstate relations. As you know, this is in the wake of the Pahalgam attack, and taking the context that the Indian

leadership has once again used the bogey of terrorism to advance its sham narrative of victimhood. They have jeopardized the regional peace and

security.

And I must say that India's reckless action has brought the two nuclear- armed states closer to a major conflict.

SCIUTTO: You say --

SHARIF: As the situation is continuing, yes.

SCIUTTO: You say, Lieutenant General, that this is an act of war. Are you saying that India and Pakistan are at war?

SHARIF: Yes, this is an act of war, because our territorial integrity, our sovereignty has been violated. Our innocent civilians, including women and

children have been targeted, our places across the international border, at two places, that is, at Bahawalpur and at Muridke. Three places across line

of control in Azad Jammu and Kashmir have been targeted.

There are deaths over here. There are women and children who have died. The places of worship have been hit.

So this is, by all definitions of international norms, standards, this is an act of war. And in accordance with the Article 51 of the UN Charter, and

as per international law, the government, the armed forces and the people of Pakistan deserve all the rights. And as we are talking, the response is

being -- a defeating response is being given to this act of aggression of the Indian armed forces and the Indian government.

SCIUTTO: OK, to be clear, just one clarification here, because language, of course, matters in quite sensitive situations. You say this is an act of

war by India against Pakistan. Are you saying that Pakistan is now at war with India?

SHARIF: You see, what I am saying is I am describing you a situation which is evolving as of now, right now.

[17:45:07]

Pakistan, in the middle of the night, has been attacked by the Indian armed forces at five places. All the places that have been hit are civilian

locations. There are deaths of children, women, places of worship, mosques have been hit. There are dead bodies and they have targeted innocent people

without taking care of any norms of international law and interstate relations. And Pakistan, as per Article 51 of the UN Charter, as per

international norms, has the complete right to defend its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

And the people of Pakistan --

SCIUTTO: Understood.

SHARIF: -- have the complete resolve to do that.

SCIUTTO: You said just a moment ago that the response by Pakistan is already underway. Are you saying Pakistan has already launched a response

or it's preparing a response?

SHARIF: What I can inform you that there are two confirmed aircraft of the Indian Air Force have already been shot down.

There are other reports of multiple damages that the Pakistani forces, both on ground and air, have inflicted. But I can confirm you at least two

aircraft of Indian Air Force that have been downed.

SCIUTTO: And that was while they were over Pakistani territory?

SHARIF: We don't have the complete operational details right now, but I can confirm you that two aircraft of Indian Air Force have been taken down.

The locations that I have so far are around Bhatinda, that is in India, and in Akhnoor. And so, there is an engagement that has been that is being

taken place, that has taken place, is already ongoing between the two air forces.

SCIUTTO: India has said that this was, and I'm paraphrasing here, a measured attack, perhaps signaling that they don't want to escalate

further, or at least communicating no desire to escalate further.

You say Pakistan will respond. What is your concern that this will escalate into a broader conflict?

SHARIF: You see, Pakistan, by being a very responsible state, offered post- Palgaham incident that an international, neutral, credible, transparent investigation by the incident can be done, should be done, and Pakistan is

ready to cooperate to any independent investigations. They are the evidence that is being produced, which we have not seen so far, any evidence that

how Pakistan was involved in this Palgaham incident.

Rather than taking the path of talks, the path of rationality, India has taken the course of military aggression.

So, Pakistan had already told, while that situation was going on before tonight, that Pakistan will respond as it deserves all the right to defend

its territorial integrity and sovereignty, and that's what we are doing, and that's what we continue to keep on doing.

SCIUTTO: I wonder if you can describe in more detail the targets that were struck by India. You mentioned mosques, other civilian sites. Indian

officials have said --

SHARIF: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- they did not strike any Pakistani military sites. Can you give greater detail as to where the Indian attacks landed?

SHARIF: Yes, I can tell you.

So, there was one attack was at a mosque, at a masjid, which is the Masjid Subhan Allah. This is near a town which is known as Ahmedpur East. That is

in Punjab, the province of Punjab.

The details that I have with me so far is that in this attack on this mosque and the adjacent quarters in which the families were living, there

were one boy and one girl who have embraced martyrdom, who died, who have, so who died. There are 10 males who are injured. There are two females who

are injured.

[17:50:11]

And right now, there are four people who are under the rubble. There's a family father, mother, and there are two children who are under rubble. And

efforts are being made to take them out. And these were these families -- these are the families who were living in the adjacent quarters of the

mosque.

The second attack that was in POK in Azad Jammu and Kashmir, that was also on a mosque. I don't have so far the details because you can understand

it's a ongoing situation. And we are so we don't want to -- I don't want to give you any information, which is so far not credible with me. We don't

have any information so far on the exact damage there.

In the capital city of Azad Jammu and Kashmir, I have reports of one attack, which one bomb, which went on a road. However, there was another

attack which happened on a mosque and this mosque was incidentally, it was only yesterday that the information minister of Pakistan took the

international media, the local media to this place, because this has been - - there has been a long -- the India chief (ph) on calling certain places, alleges them as training centers that sometimes as launchpads. And this has

been doing, saying it for years and years.

So only yesterday, the international media and media was taken to these alleged fake, so-called places of worship or the -- or places which are

known as alleged as these cleaning centers. So, this place was visited by international media just yesterday. It was there and everybody saw it, that

there were innocent people living there. There were Syrian population around that. So that is the second.

The third place that they have hit. And again, there are reports of deaths over there.

SCIUTTO: Can I ask you, sir, as this --

SHARIF: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- you're well aware. I don't have to tell you about the danger of further escalation, given that we're talking about India and Pakistan that

have fought wars before. Both of which are nations that have nuclear weapons.

Where do you believe this current exchange of fire ends? What is Pakistan's intention as to how far this goes?

SHARIF: So this is what the politicians and diplomats, I'm a military man. I'll give you the information which is in the military domain. That's not

my place to comment on that. I can tell you that the armed forces of Pakistan will defend the integrity, sovereignty, and honor of Pakistan at

all costs.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, I wonder if I can ask about your response to India's accusations that Pakistan shared responsibility for the deadly terror

attack that took place inside Indian administered Kashmir.

How does the Pakistani military respond to that accusation?

SHARIF: Yes, so as you might have seen, that Pakistan's -- government of Pakistan in the national security deprivation that it gave immediately

afterwards. It said very clearly that Pakistan condemns terrorism in all forms and manifestation anywhere in the world.

Pakistan itself is the one of the biggest victim of terrorism in recent time. With thousands, with thousands of people, civilians losing their

lives, billions of hundreds of billions of dollars of damage to the economy of Pakistan. I can -- I will not go into details of the fight that Pakistan

is fighting against on terrorism on daily basis. I'll just tell you that just today we lost seven soldiers. We just lost seven soldiers fighting

through the against these terrorists in Balochistan.

So, Pakistan position on terrorism by words and by action, is absolutely clear to everyone, and that is why the government of Pakistan, once these

acquisitions were made came out very clearly and clearly that if there is any evidence, it must then there's a need for an internationally

recognized, some transparent third party, credible who should take on this evidence should be provided to it, and we are ready for any sort of such

investigations.

[17:55:12]

And that's the stance, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the government of Pakistan took, which is a very reasonable and a very logical stance.

SCIUTTO: Well, Lieutenant General Ahmed Sharif, spokesperson for the Pakistani military. We do appreciate you giving us an update on the

situation. We hope we can stay in touch during what promised to be -- promises to be some tense hours going forward.

SHARIF: Thank you very much. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We do have some new video coming in to CNN of these attacks. Let's have a look.

This was posted to social media. We're told it is from Bahawalpur in Pakistan. Of course, from the size of that explosion there, you could see

it was quite a significant strike.

Joining me now to help put these strikes into context, CNN military analyst, Col. Cedric Leighton.

Colonel thanks so much for joining. I don't have to tell you as a former intelligence officer the dangers inherent in an armed conflict, an armed

exchange of fire between these two nuclear armed powers.

But first I wonder if you could put into context what we have seen so far in that India has struck not just inside Pakistan controlled Kashmir, which

of course forms the center of the disputed territories between these two nations, but also inside Pakistan itself.

And hearing just then a spokesperson for the Pakistani military telling us Pakistan considers this a blatant act of war.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST (on-camera): Yes, Jim, this is one of the most dangerous situations that you can possibly get into between these

two nuclear armed powers. And one of the things that Lieutenant General Sharif, the Pakistani spokesman mentioned that caught my attention was the

fact that he said that the Indians used to standoff weapons against the Pakistani targets.

So, what they were doing was they were flying along the Pakistani-Indian border according to what General Sharif was saying, and then using standoff

weapons to attack targets with Pakistani territory. So that is significant in some ways it's sending a message that they have the offensive capability

on the Indian side but that they are holding back. They are not overlying Indian airspace, but they, or excuse me, Pakistani airspace, but they were

going after targets in Pakistan that they deemed to be necessary.

It's also interesting to note, Jim, I think that he's -- he is basically saying that no Pakistani military targets were struck. The Indians have

said that he indicated, he did not indicate that any of them had been struck in his conversation with you. There were other reports out there

that maybe that -- I'm not sure that that's completely accurate. In other words, that there might be a Pakistani air base that may have been struck,

but we'll of course have to see.

So, it seems to me that the Indians are responding to the terrorist attack, killed the 26 tourists in Kashmir. But that they are doing so in what they

think is a restrained fashion. When you listen to the Pakistanis, of course, they don't see that as being restrained at all at this particular

point in time.

SCIUTTO: Listen, and that, that of course, is the difficult calculus of any situation. That one, one side's measured response could be seen quite

differently by the other side as a major escalation.

Given your noting that point about India using standoff weapons, you heard the Lieutenant General there say that Pakistan was able to shoot down two

Indian aircraft during this operation, taking them at their word. And given that this is early on still battle is damage assessments to be done, that

would then indicate significant capabilities would it not to shoot down India NAF (ph) aircraft at a standoff distance.

LEIGTON (on-camera): Yes, it potentially would. Again, it depends on distances and it depends on a few other factors.

One of the things to keep in mind is that historically the Indian Air Force has had issues with a very high accident rate, whether or not these were

actual shoot downs or mechanical malfunctions remains to be seen. And we may never know exactly, you know, which is which.

But let's assume for a second that this were -- these were shoot downs. That would be a significant situation because it wouldn't -- would mean

that the Pakistanis are using their capabilities very close to the India- Pakistan border, and they are going in, in a way that would allow their capabilities to actually basically blunt the Indian attack.

[18:00:02]

And so, if that you know, if that bears out, then there is a chance that the Pakistanis are going to find themselves basically in a fairly equal

footing.

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