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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Cardinal Robert Prevost Elected the First American Pope; World Leaders Congratulate New Pope; India-Pakistan Tensions; U.S. and U.K. Trade Pact. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 08, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching "The
Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Cardinal Robert Prevost is elected the first American pope. He'll be known as Pope Leo XIV. Indian officials say Pakistan fired
missiles and drones at military sites in India and Indian-administered Kashmir, a claim that Pakistan is denying. And the U.S. and U.K. announced
a trade deal that leaves tariffs in place on most British goods.
Habemus Papam, latin for we have a pope. Today, he is Leo XIV, the spiritual leader of almost one and a half billion Catholics around the
world. Just yesterday, he was a cardinal, Cardinal Robert Prevost. His first words from St. Peter's Basilica, a message of peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): Peace be with you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Pope Leo was born in Chicago, making him the first American born pope in history. However, we should note he spent most of his priesthood in
Peru where he eventually obtained citizenship there. Whitney Wild has more on who the new pope is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We have a pope.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the moment Catholics and papal enthusiasts had been waiting for. Pope Leo XIV,
the first U.S. pontiff in history, presenting himself to the world.
69-year-old Cardinal Robert Prevost, born in Chicago, was chosen as the 267th leader of the Catholic Church on day two of the conclave.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): Peace be with you.
WILD (voice-over): He attended Villanova University in Pennsylvania, earning a bachelor's in mathematics before going on to receive his Master
of Divinity from the Catholic Theological Union of Chicago.
SISTER BARBARA REID, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC THEOLOGICAL UNION: I have absolutely no doubt that our new pope, Leo XIV, will just be an
extraordinary leader. We didn't think it was possible for an American to be the person that the cardinals would choose. But he's a person that really
has the heart of the whole church.
WILD (voice-over): Cardinal Prevost has spent much of his career as a missionary in South America. He previously worked for a decade in Trujillo,
Peru, and served as bishop of Chiclayo, another Peruvian City from 2014 to 2023. He is a dual U.S. and Peruvian National.
After today's unveiling, Peru's Immigration Agency posted his Peruvian I.D. card on social media. Today, he outlined his vision for the church.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): We have to seek together to be a missionary church, a church that builds bridges and dialogue.
WILD (voice-over): The visibly emotional Pope Leo XIV also thanked the cardinal.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): I should also like to thank all my cardinal brethren who have chosen me to be the successor of Peter and to
walk with you as a United church, always seeking peace and justice.
WILD (voice-over): He also asked the crowd to remember the legacy of his predecessor, praising the late pope Francis who died April 21st.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): The pope who blessed Rome gave his blessing to the world, to the entire world that morning of Easter. Allow me
to follow up on that blessing. God loves us. God loves everyone. Evil will not prevail.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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SCIUTTO: The new pope, Leo, graduated from Villanova University here in the U.S. just outside of Philadelphia back in 1977. There he received a
Bachelor of Science in Mathematics, CNN's Danny Freeman is live in Villanova. And listen, a lot of it was been made of his Chicago roots and
that he's a Chicago White Sox fan, as I'm told, not a Chicago Cubs fan in baseball. But I have seen in the past, he has tweeted about his beloved
Villanova basketball team as well.
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes. I mean, if you're from Nova, you're not going to forget your roots and how good this team has been for
so many years. But, you know, let's talk about the pope for now, because I'll -- I can talk about basketball all night.
You know, it's interesting, Jim, before Pope Leo XIV became the pope, before he became a cardinal, before he even became a priest, he was here
just outside of Philadelphia, earning his undergraduate degree at Villanova University, as you noted, a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics in 1977.
That's what he graduated with. He also got an honorary doctorate of humanities in 2014. A long relationship here with this university.
There's so much pride on this campus tonight, Jim. The bells behind me, they were ringing throughout the entirety of the day, nonstop. There was a
faculty member who I spoke with, he's the chair of the Theology Department here, and he told me when he heard the news, not only was he stunned
because he knew Pope Leo before he was pope as a cardinal, but he just started to cry because it was such a big moment, not only for America as
the first American pope, but also for the university.
I also spoke with a number of students as well, who, some are very young, Jim, some the same age, of course, as the pope himself was here back when
he was an undergraduate, and they were just soaking in the moment. And so appreciative of this moment. Take a listen to my conversation with one
student just a little while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREEMAN: What does it mean that the pope was an alumnus?
ALICE QUINN, VILLANOVA STUDENT: I mean, it's hard to put into words. I think it's a testament to this school's strong Catholic faith, and I think
it just shows that it's a huge community and everyone's out here, you know, saying prayers in front of the church. It just shows that like we all feel
such a strong bond of community here. And it's just like, I think I'm going to remember this day for the rest of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FREEMAN: So many people here, faculty, students, administers alike absolutely will remember this day for the rest of their lives. Jim, one
other thing that I'll note too, just again, tying the connection to what happened today and the university here outside of Philly is this university
right here, it's an Augustinian Catholic University here in the States. Their motto, very much Veritas, Unitas, Caritas, right, truth, unity, and
love, all inspired by the teachings of St. Augustine.
Well, Pope Leo today, in his initial remarks, he specifically referenced St. Augustine as part of his vision as a Christian and of course as a
Catholic as well. And that's part of the reason why this university, in particular, is so prideful today because they see a through line of many of
the lessons that he learned here back in the '70s to how he may lead as pope in the future. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, I know it's early. He's been pope for a matter of hours, but popes do travel and they sometimes travel to their home
countries. I wonder if you heard hope from the campus there at Villanova that he might make a visit someday?
FREEMAN: Oh, there's a tremendous amount of hope that he will certainly come back to the Philly area. I think Villanova would be thrilled for that.
You know what the interesting thing too, though, was, Jim, is I also spoke with, some students and a professor who actually just in October took a
trip to Rome and to the Vatican, and they had the opportunity to meet with Robert Francis Prevost when he was a cardinal, of course, before he became
pope. And the connection is so strong because there are students here who now feel like they have a relationship with the new pope.
There was a student who was telling me that she took communion from, again, now the new pope just a few months ago. So, that relationship, that bond
with this university, I think we're going to hear a lot more about it in the weeks, months, and hopefully years to come during his papacy.
SCIUTTO: Well, I'll tell you, having been to basketball games at the Villanova campus, if he goes to a game there, that place is going to go
wild. Danny Freeman, thanks so much.
FREEMAN: Yes, absolutely.
SCIUTTO: Well, leaders from around the world are congratulating the new pope. Peruvian President Dina Boluarte is celebrating his election by
echoing some of his first words as pope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DINA BOLUARTE, PERUVIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Let us build bridges of dialogue to achieve peace in Peru and the world. The pope is
Peruvian. God loves Peru. Long live Pope Leo VIX.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It is of course important to remember he was born in the U.S. but he lived his life, a lot of his life at work in Peru. President Donald
Trump said he was surprised by the selection, but very happy.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: To have the pope from the United States of America, that's a great honor. That's a great honor. I'm watching, and they
said he's from America. I said, that's great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Other well-wishers, the leaders of Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Canada, and many others. Even former U.S. President Barack Obama, who of
course, like the pope hails from Chicago, congratulated his fellow Chicagoan, they're proud there of their own.
Christopher Lamb was in St. Peter's Square as the announcement was made earlier today, he joins me now. I wonder what the energy is like there. He
had a very clear message. And he was quite close to Pope Francis. And his message seems to be that the focus on the pastoral mission of the church
will remain his priority.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. That's right. I think what we saw from Pope Leo XIV in his first words was clearly a desire
to continue in the same mold as Pope Francis, to be able to continue the reforms that Francis has started.
And I think given the age of Pope Leo XIV, he's 69 years old, he'll have a bit more time as pope than perhaps Pope Francis who was 76 when he was
elected. And I think the he'll have that more time to institutionalize the reforms of Francis. I think that is the key message I think from the
cardinals in seeking to elect Pope Leo XIV.
Of course, in the square was an incredible atmosphere when the white smoke went up and people were waiting, you know, expectingly for the news of who
had been elected, the 267th successor of St. Peter. And, you know, because of the time that the white spoke had come after four maybe five ballots,
some people were thinking it could be Cardinal Parolin, one of the front runners. And then we heard the name Prevost, and that he had taken Pope Leo
XIV. Really a stunning moment to have the first American pope.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
LAMB: And the at the atmosphere was, you know, unforgettable.
SCIUTTO: Can I ask how the people there received that particular news, that he's a pope hailing from America. There were not a lot of folks
predicting that outcome.
LAMB: No, I think there was great surprise, great joy. And I think, of course, you know, people, they wanted to see who the pope was. But I think
there were some people from the U.S. in the crowd and they reacted with, you know, amazement and, you know, surprise and a lot of happiness and joy
to that news.
I thought it was interesting though that he spoke in Italian and in Spanish. He didn't say any words in English. He mentioned the Diocese of
Chiclayo, which he led in Peru for a number of years, and he spoke in Spanish at that point, that I think was significant.
So, I think he's trying to emphasize that he's not a pope from one country, that he is someone who spans national borders and that's going to be
important for him.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. And listen, it's true, he's a dual national. He's an American citizen, it's where he is born, but he also has
citizenship now in Peru, because that's, of course, where he served for so long. He was appointed to quite a senior position by Pope Francis that
allowed him, as I understand it, to interact with a number of the cardinals. And I wonder do you and do others there see Francis' hand in his
selection?
LAMB: Well, I think the fact that the pope brought him to Rome to lead the very important department in the Vatican for appointing bishops is
significant. And I think Francis had his eye on Cardinal Prevost, Bishop Prevost as he then was, to bring him into this very important role at the
Vatican, overseeing the appointments of bishops worldwide.
And in that role, of course, he met a number of cardinals. And of course, he had to deal with some difficult issues. He had to not just deal with the
appointment of bishops, but the resignations of bishops, the disciplining of bishops and all that takes a lot of skill. It takes an ability to bring
together people from different parts of the world, to hear their views, to be a kind of moderator.
And I think that is what a lot of the cardinals felt was impressive about Cardinal Prevost, now Pope Leo XIV, that he does have a very thoughtful and
measured style. He's known as a good mediator and he emphasized that in his speech about the importance of bridge building. I think that's going to be
an important theme of his papacy.
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SCIUTTO: No question. You could see it, I think -- I never met the man, but I could see it in his face. He seemed to have just, well, a kindly
face. And of course, we'll see how he carries the mission forward as he leads the church. Christopher Lamb in Vatican City, thanks so much for
joining.
Well, American Catholics are certainly celebrating the selection of the new pope.
Applause there from student, staff, and faculty during the lunch break at the Divine Word College in Iowa. That's one lunch they're not likely to
forget.
Father Thomas Massaro is Professor of Moral Theology at Fordham University. Thanks so much for joining. I wonder what your reactions were and when you
saw him walk out there, were you surprised?
FATHER THOMAS MASSARO, PROFESSOR OF MORAL THEOLOGY, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: I was shocked, delighted. But this is the second surprising conclave in a
row. So, in 2013, Francis was elected. So, I'm a Jesuit priest teaching here at Fordham University in New York City, and I kept saying for decades,
oh, they'll never be a Jesuit pope, and then there was in 2013. And I've said it even longer, there'll never be an American pope, and here we are in
2025 with a wonderful choice.
So, we, Catholics would say that the Holy Spirit, God, has guided the electors, those 133 cardinals to make an excellent choice.
SCIUTTO: Well, I'll tell you, full disclosure, I was educated by Jesuits in New York at Regis High School. I'm sure you're familiar, a lot of Regis
grads where you are.
MASSARO: I'm Regis graduate myself.
SCIUTTO: Well, there you go. What year were you?
MASSARO: Yes. Class of '79. You're a bit younger than me.
SCIUTTO: Oh, wow. Only nine years apart. But I wonder given the message he gave today and the nature of his mission in Peru, he worked with the poor,
deliberately, quite vocal about the cases of migrants and immigrants. And you heard his words today describing following Jesus' mission of taking
care of the needy, building bridges, showing care. That's quite similar to Pope Francis' message, and I imagine we should read that as a quite
deliberate message from the cardinals as to what direction and what focus they want the church to take.
MASSARO: That's exactly right. So, what happens in the few days after a new pope is elected, we're all trying to read the tea leaves. So, he has a
good reputation. All of those adjectives that your previous guest, Christopher Lamb, very respected journalist, described him, balanced,
trustworthy, outgoing, but probably not as charismatic as Francis was or John Paul II.
The tea leaves also tell us that he is very much in favor of the Francis agenda of caring for the poor and the marginalized. The fact that he went
to South America and Peru for over 20 years, was a bishop there, these are great signs.
Now, the tea leaves still suggests -- there's still a few more things we need to know. One is, here's a question no one has answered yet, will he
live in the apostolic palace the way pope did for hundreds of years, or will he live as Pope Francis did in a more modest place, the Domus Santa
Marta? That would tell us something about his simplicity or his desire to be around people as opposed to being more introverted.
One bit of tea leaves was he stepped out on the balcony wearing fairly elaborate garments, the mozzetta and a very ornate red stole. So, Francis
only came out with a white cassock, it was the equivalent of a t-shirt 12 years ago.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MASSARO: So, there's still a lot of a questions to be answered. But so far, I see a lot of continuity with Francis in his track record.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes. We'll see if he's driving a compact car around Rome too, like Francis was one to do. I don't want to exaggerate the American
piece of this though. Of course, it is historic, but I wonder, is it going too far to see any intended message to America's leaders, given the kind of
rhetoric we hear in this country and even -- you know, even the splits you have in this country between a sort of more conservative faction within the
Catholic church here and a more a more Pope Francis like faction, more progressive?
MASSARO: Well, if the question is about how he got here, I have a hard time imagining that any of the 133 electors schemed and said, oh, let's put
-- let me vote for a guy who's going to, I don't know, take a position on a political USA politics spectrum. So, I don't think that's there. Even the
other nine or so American-based cardinals like my own, Cardinal Dolan or Cardinal Cupich or Cardinal McElroy. I just don't think a political
motivation was primary.
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I suspect they were looking for a man who has the right personal co-op qualities. And by the way, he's a very talented Canon lawyer. He has a
doctorate from one of the pontifical universities in Rome in Canon law. He knows the church well. He knows the tradition, and yet, he's also -- you
know, we would put -- call him progressive. I don't -- that adjective covers a lot of ground.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MASSARO: But he is -- he cares about the poor. Yet to be determined is whether he'll be placing the environment as such a high priority as Francis
did. Will he place migrants and refugees as high a priority as Francis did? Will he place outreach to the LGBTQ community as high as Francis did? These
are all questions, and again, I'm looking for the tea leaves. We'll see a few when he gives an Angelus speech on Sunday and then probably a few days
after that, his inaugural homily at his first inaugural Papal Mass.
SCIUTTO: We'll be listening as well. Father Massaro, perhaps we'll have you back then. Thanks so much for joining.
MASSARO: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Please do stay with CNN. We'll be right back.
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SCIUTTO: Apologies to our viewers. "The Brief" is back now. The militaries of India and Pakistan remain on high alert after New Delhi launched strikes
on Pakistan, as well as Pakistan controlled parts of Kashmir. New Delhi's actions, response to a terrorist attack last month, which it blames on
Pakistan. Pakistan has vowed to retaliate for India's military action.
Now, Indian officials say their longtime rival has fired missiles and drones at military sites in India Pakistaninized (ph) that claim, that
cycle all too familiar in this area between India and Pakistan. This comes after high-ranking French intelligence officials told CNN, Pakistan shot
down a French-made Rafale fighter jet operated by the Indian Air Force. I was told by a senior U.S. official that U.S. assessments say the same, that
Pakistani forces shot down an Indian aircraft in the midst of its initial strikes early Wednesday morning. This would mark the first time that one of
these sophisticated aircraft has been lost in combat. We should note Pakistani officials claim to have shot down multiple Indian jets.
Derek Grossman joins me now. He's a senior defense analyst at the RAND Corporation. Derek, good to have you. You have speculated that each side
potentially overstating their military success, could provide an off ramp here. Tell us how.
DEREK GROSSMAN, SENIOR DEFENSE ANALYST, RAND: Well, thanks for having me, Jim. Yes. So, I mean, as we've seen, especially on social media, right,
there's a lot of disinformation and misinformation out there on both sides, right? And, you know, when you have a situation like this, a crisis like
this between two highly nationalistic and prideful countries, I mean, that's pretty common, right? That they're going to try to deny that
they're, you know, suffering as a result of the conflict and try to point to advantages that they've gained, right?
But what I was trying to point out, as you mentioned, is that, you know, there is an opportunity here for one side to claim that they have
essentially accomplish their mission and that there's nothing more to do, right. And then that, would, I think, put the pressure on the other side to
maybe do the same. But we haven't seen that happen yet, unfortunately.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, do you believe Pakistan is overstating its success regarding downing Indian aircraft? Because we should note the French are
saying, a Rafale went down, the U.S. are saying Pakistan shot down on Indian aircraft, and that would have its own significance in terms of
military capabilities on both sides, wouldn't it?
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GROSSMAN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's -- we're still, of course -- I think we're all trying to verify what actually transpired over the last,
you know, 36 to 48 hours. But inevitably, we'll get as much of the information as possible and put the story together. And you guys over at
CNN, you and particularly, Jim, have done a great job at that.
What it sounds like is that this really was a standoff type of air conflict in which Pakistan and perhaps India as well, were using missile systems
well beyond the -- within each other's sovereign airspaces. And so, they were able to launch attacks without actually like technically invading the
airspace of their opponent.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
GROSSMAN: So, that is something for sure that we'll have to keep tabs on.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Standoff weapons, as they're known, with significant ranges, if the accounts are correct. I wonder, given that we have seen an Indian
strikes and we, yes, we've seen some cross-border shelling by Pakistan, we have not yet seen a significant Pakistani military response, but of course
that could come. But is it possible that Pakistan lays off a fuller -- a more full-scale retaliation?
GROSSMAN: It's certainly possible. But I mean, what we've seen, especially in the last 20 hours or so, is that Pakistan has been doing some pretty
heavy artillery shelling across the line of control that separates Pakistan from India, India-administered Kashmir. We've also heard the Indians say
that they afforded some attempted Pakistani drone attacks against Indian targets. Pakistan is saying that, you know, they've been able to hit some
of those targets, right?
So, again, you know, back to the misinformation and disinformation game here. But you know, there's certainly a tit for tat that is been ongoing
and I don't see them dialing it back at least at this point. And you know, your colleague, Jake Tapper, just had the Pakistani ambassador on and, you
know, according to the ambassador, I mean Pakistan is confused, why is this happening? It shouldn't be happening. India is the aggressor. But the
Pakistani military has also pledged and vowed and the Pakistan prime minister as well has pledged to retaliate. And so, that is probably
forthcoming.
SCIUTTO: Derek Grossman at the RAND Corporation, thanks so much.
Returning now to our top story today, the Catholic Church welcoming a new pope, Cardinal Robert Prevost, selected as the next pope and the very first
pope in the history of the church of many centuries. He has taken the papal name of Leo XIV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): This is the first greetings of the resurrected Christ, the good shepherd, who has gave up -- given up his life
for God. And I should also like this greeting of peace to enter our hearts and your families, and to all those people wherever they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: He is from Chicago, but spent much of his career as a missionary serving in Peru. He actually holds Peruvian nationality as well. The 69-
year-old most recently led a powerful Vatican office for appointing bishops.
David Culver is live in Rome. What's the level of excitement there tonight?
David, can you hear me?
It doesn't appear we have David Culver in Rome. But thanks so much for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, D.C. You've been watching
"The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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