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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

CNN International: Russia-Ukraine Ceasefire Talks; Zelenskyy Says Russia Not Serious About Peace Talks; Trump Visits Abu Dhabi; Trump Says Iran Will Never Have a Nuclear Weapon; Supreme Court Hears Arguments on Birthright Citizenship; E.U.-U.S. Trade Negotiations; Hostage Father Speaks to U.N. Security Council; Combs' Defense Team Cross-Examines Cassie Ventura; Magna Carta Discovery. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 15, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching "The

Brief."

Just ahead this hour, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, dampens expectations ahead of ceasefire talks between Russia and Ukraine saying

Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin need to meet. The U.S. Supreme Court hears arguments on President Trump's executive order to end birthright

citizenship. And Harvard Law School paid $27 and 50 cents, it turns out, for a copy, an original of the Magna Carter. Historians now believe it is a

rare original worth millions.

We begin with the planned peace talks between Russia and Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is sending a team headed by his defense

minister to Istanbul while Russian President Vladimir Putin is sending a lower-level delegation led by a hardline aid of his.

President Zelenskyy decided not to attend the talks personally as Putin didn't travel to Turkey, but the Ukrainian leader did meet Turkey's

president in Ankara today. Here's what he said about the prospects for peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Number one point on the agenda is a ceasefire, and I still believe Russia is not being

serious about these meetings. It does not want to end the war, but we hope they demonstrate something during the meeting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: President Trump said today, he expects no progress on ending the war until he meets personally with Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Nothing's going to happen until Putin and I get together. OK? And obviously, he wasn't going to go -- he was going to

go, but he thought I wasn't going to go. He wasn't going if I wasn't there. And I don't believe anything's going to happen whether you like it or not,

until he and I get together. But we're going to have to get a solved because too many people are dying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Secretary of State Marco Rubio also said he does not expect a breakthrough in these current negotiations. This comes as two U.S.

officials tell me that in fact Russia is now amassing forces on the front lines for a new offensive intended to capture more Ukrainian territory. One

of those officials told me, quote, "Putin will attempt to take whatever land he can right up to the outskirts of Kyiv. The Russians are going to

make every effort to get what they can."

Joining me now, democratic Congressman Mike Quigley from Illinois. He's the co-chair of the Congressional Ukraine Caucus and a member of the House

Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL), CO-CHAIR, CONGRESSIONAL UKRAINE CAUCUS: Thank you. Glad to be here.

SCIUTTO: So, if as they are talking, granted it quite a low-level from the Russian side in Istanbul, Russia is amassing forces for a new offensive.

Does that signal quite clearly? It's not interested in making peace.

QUIGLEY: Well, I think President Trump's finally realized that sort of come to dawn. HE wrote recently, it makes me think that Putin doesn't want

to stop the war. He's just tapping me along. He has to be dealt with differently. Well, OK. Something we knew some time ago.

These peace talks were Putin's idea and not only does he not show up, he sends a low-level delegation, which of course means Zelenskyy won't be

there and the president won't be there, and even Marco Rubio won't be there. So, you don't see much hope.

But the bottom line is everyone should recognize at this point Putin doesn't want to cooperate. He's slow footing this because he wants to take

much more Ukrainian territory before there's any sort of cessation in the violence.

SCIUTTO: So, is it time or perhaps even past time now for the Trump administration to impose new sanctions on Russia? I mean, it wasn't long

ago the President removed intelligence sharing from Ukraine immediately after he perceived that Volodymyr Zelenskyy was not willing to accept a

ceasefire.

[18:05:00]

QUIGLEY: So, far, what the president's done has put all the real pressure on Ukraine, who's the victim of this invasion. He's done absolutely nothing

that's a real threat of pressure on Putin. So, look, I think the banking threat he referenced and the sanctions, those all need to happen.

But what Putin fears most, and if Trump wants to force this issue, the only thing that Putin understands and what the Soviets and the Russians have

ever understood is strength. So, if the president wants to force Putin to the peace table, it will be, if you don't do this, we're going to do

another military supplemental and we're going to continue to do this until you come to the table and realize that you're not going to profit from the

fact that you have invaded. We're not going to give you de facto recognition of land that you currently occupy. Heck, Putin is now still at

the maximal of stage where he wants land that they still don't occupy.

SCIUTTO: How serious are congressional efforts to impose sanctions if the administration itself doesn't act?

QUIGLEY: Look, there's some very serious lawmakers on the Republican side that are Mr. Fitzpatrick and others who want to move forward with a

discharge petition. They -- as they've told me to force the additional sanctions.

The Republican side of this is probably 50/50 split on whether we do something serious about Ukraine, but I would encourage my colleagues there

who are strong advocates of defending Ukraine and of course Eastern Europe on this, to use the most of the leverage they have. The margins of the

house are extraordinarily narrow. So, they have a great deal of influence if they're willing to exert it.

QUIGLEY: Where does this war go from here without a substantive peace process in your view? So, if these talks don't appear to be going anywhere,

now does the fighting just continue unabated?

QUIGLEY: Unfortunately so, and this is, again, why Putin isn't interested in peace talks. He knows that he has a dramatic manpower advantage over

Ukraine. He knows he can treat his troops like cannon fodder. And he's still running his economy on hyperdrive war economy steroids, you know. And

he's able to do that with the help from China, North Korea, Iran.

And again, if the United States was serious and if the president was serious about this, it's not only a supplemental, it's turning our

attention to those that are helping Russia with this war effort so he doesn't have -- Putin doesn't have unlimited resources to continue the war

forever.

SCIUTTO: Yes. A lot of Russian oil getting bought, not just by China, India, and others. And that goes right to the war coffers. Congressman Mike

Quigley, thanks so much for joining.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, there was more fanfare for President Trump in the United Arab Emirates today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This is the final stop of his Mideast tour. During a bilateral meeting, he invited the UAE's president to the White House. He also said

this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You are a great warrior. A very strong man. A brilliant man, a man of vision, like few others. Like few others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Earlier he addressed U.S. forces at the largest U.S. military base in the region. There the Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar, he mentioned Iran

nuclear negotiations, the Russia-Ukraine talks a potential tariff deal with India and the possibility of what he called a Gaza Freedom Zone.

Joining us now live from Abu Dhabi CNN's Chief U.S. National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. What's a freedom zone? What does he mean by that

in Gaza?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it's basically an extension of what President Trump talked about a few months

ago. Remember when he was talking about redeveloping Gaza, talking about, you know, making it a beautiful place, talking about building apartments

and hotels. This is a bit of an extension of that as far as we can tell.

It's nothing that the White House has explained in any more detail, which is often the case and the president calling it a freedom zone. But the

bottom line is that does very little to actually advancing the effort toward resolving the conflict. So, the freedom zone, he went on to talk

about how it, you know, would be a beautiful place where everyone could live. It is not being viewed as a serious proposal, if you could even call

it a proposal.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Right now, in that, quote/unquote, "freedom zone," there is famine and an expanding Israeli military operation. Trump did speak about

the ongoing Iran negotiations and he said, in his words, an Iran deal is close. But he then warned, as he often does, in connection to that, that

there would be a violence step if a deal is not reached.

[18:10:00]

Do you have a sense from Trump administration officials as to what substantial progress there has been?

ZELENY: Jim, it's really hard to get a read on this. The president has talked about Iran every day on this trip that he is been on, really every

day talking about, you know, wanting Iran to thrive and flourish. But saying that they are close to a deal. At one point he said they sort of

have a deal. No, we do not have a sense from the administration.

Steve Witkoff, who of course is the president's leading envoy who is handling the Iran portfolio as well as many other topics has been in

conversations and negotiations, and there is a dialogue, there's no doubt about that. But in terms of being close to a deal that is not really

anything that there is any evidence of necessarily.

But the Iranian president had a bit of a retort to the U.S. president. He said it was naive for him to come to the region here in the Middle East and

make demands and threats and basically try and bully them into a deal. So, Trump said Iran will never have a nuclear weapon, and Iran obviously wants

to negotiate and hold onto a part of its nuclear program.

So, there will be a deep discussion. We know that President Trump does not really get into details. And as you well know, Jim, after covering the

JCPOA, this is a very detailed arrangement. So, it's not simply enough to say there's sort of a deal.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and of course the president's own description of how close they were to say a Russia-Ukraine deal has not proven to be true, at least

not yet. Jeff Zeleny in Abu Dhabi, thanks so much.

President Trump's move to end birthright citizenship was the subject of fierce debate and questions at the U.S. Supreme Court today. President

Trump signed, you'll remember, an executive order on his first day of office aimed at ending the constitutional right enshrined in the 14th

Amendment and later reiterated by a number of court decisions. Lower courts have since blocked that executive order on a nationwide basis. And the

White House said in arguments that lower courts overstepped their authority and that the executive order must stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. JOHN SAUER, U.S. SOLICITOR GENERAL: The original meaning of the citizenship clause extended citizenship to the children of former slaves,

not to people who are unlawfully or temporarily present in the United States. The merits arguments we are presenting to the lower courts are

compelling. For those reasons we ask the court to grant the applications.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Several of courts conservatives did seem open deciding with the White House at least on the issue of those nationwide injunctions. Liberal

Justice Sonya Sotomayor said the executive order violates several Supreme Court precedents.

Joining me now, CNN, Chief Supreme Court Analyst Joan Biskupic. I'm so glad to have you here because there's so much intertwined here. You have the

issue of the nationwide injunctions intertwined with the merits of the question on birthright citizenship, and it's quite interesting because even

though I know the focus has been on the Nationwide injunction question, you did hear the solicitor general there take a shot at birthright citizenship

itself.

But at least on that first issue, where did the court stand and where was the debate focused today?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Well, it was intertwined among the justices also. You know, I went in there, Jim, thinking that they

would be focusing mostly on this device, that the lower court judges had used to say, not only is the -- should the executive order be blocked in

their own region, their own district, but nationwide.

And that's been those kinds of devices, those nationwide injunctions, sometimes called universal injunctions have been controversial through

several administrations going back. And I thought, you know, given the way this case had come up with no briefing, no filing on the constitutional

question of birthright citizenship, that the justices would sidestep it.

But no, it was clear that they think that backdrop colors the whole thing. And there were several justices across the ideological divide who

questioned how quickly they could actually take on the merits of the issue. You know, could they -- you know, will it take months for it to get up

there? Potentially years after lower courts have actually assessed the constitutionality of what Donald Trump has done. But I think that that

necessarily kind of colors where they're going to go on this.

Yes. A majority of this conservative court, and including many of the -- and some of the liberals want to reign in lower court judges' nationwide

orders. They want that. But there seem no consensus for exactly when and what factors should apply for when maybe a nationwide injunction is

necessary because you don't want a patchwork of policy throughout the country.

[18:15:00]

You know, so there is an issue though of judicial power for these district court judges, but several of the justices talked about how what if

eventually they decree that -- what Donald Trump did on birthright citizenship, by carving out these exceptions, these exceptions that we --

nobody believed that we should have for more than 150 years to the 14th Amendment, what if the court eventually strikes that down? What happens in

the interim to children who would be born of unlawful residents or people here who are here on temporary status that Donald Trump wants to exclude?

SCIUTTO: So, that's that -- and that's a fascinating question, right? Because, you know, let's say that if there wasn't a nationwide injunction,

you could have a case where the folks who didn't bring the case that they had that right denied as it worked its way through the courts.

BISKUPIC: That's right.

SCIUTTO: So, kind of an effective denial of a right. But did you hear in the arguments, and I know that this is a little bit of tea leaf reading,

right, because we don't know how they'll eventually decide, some openness among the conservatives to on the merits, limiting birthright citizenship

in some way, or did you hear support for it?

BISKUPIC: No, no, no.

SCIUTTO: OK.

BISKUPIC: OK. Let's just consider who would, who in that whole room would be open to it, and I should just mention that John Eastman, remember him?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BISKUPIC: Yes. He was actually in the spectator section and he's somebody who has at -- former Clarence Thomas clerk who has said that birthright

citizenship should not cover people who are here unlawfully or on a temporary status.

Of all the justices, maybe Clarence Thomas would be open to that, but I don't think you're going to have -- you definitely aren't going to have a

majority here because it's so -- it's such an established fundamental principle in our Constitution. And as the -- a couple justices raised, in

1898, there was a landmark Supreme Court ruling that said it covers virtually everyone.

SCIUTTO: Do we -- and final question, just because I always have a million questions for you because we can stand here for hours. Do we expect a

decision on this before the end of this term or just a decision on one of the questions, not the other question, or --

BISKUPIC: I think we're definitely -- we are not going to get a final resolution on the merits of birthright citizenship. I mean, they -- first

of all, they don't have the proper filings before them. At one point Justice Alito said, can we just decide that? Because it was clear that

even, you know, some conservatives were concerned about that, but it seems highly unlikely that they would actually decide that core question that

they would -- what they'll decide is whether these lower court judges who ruled against the Trump administration and said that the -- his order

should be blocked throughout the entire country. They will rule on that portion of it.

But I'm expecting actually a narrow ruling, a limited ruling, and possibly the justices to say, come back. We're going to grant a hearing on the

larger question. Yes.

SCIUTTO: OK. So, it's going to keep you busy. John Biskupic, thanks so much.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead. The E.U. says it is a no rush to reach a trade deal with the U.S. We're going to hear from Greece's deputy foreign affairs

minister on the way forward on trade.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." A mixed day on Wall Street with the S&P 500 rising for a fourth straight session. Stocks getting a boost from

falling bond yields and a sharp slowdown in wholesale inflation. But concern over the effects of Trump's trade policies remain. The latest

retail sales numbers show shoppers pulled back last month on spending.

Walmart says it's going to raise prices on some goods as a result of tariffs. The shoemaker Birkenstock is also raising prices to offset higher

tariffs. And in a new interview, the JPMorgan CEO Jamie Diamond said he still cannot rule out a U.S. recession amid those ongoing tariff

uncertainties and the trade war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIAMOND, CEO, JPMORGAN: I am going to defer to economists who give it about a 50 percent chance. I think all these things are probably

inflationary a little bit more and slowing it down the economy. If there's a recession, I don't know how big it'll be or how long it'll last.

Hopefully, we'll avoid it. But I wouldn't take it off the table at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, as U.S. trade talks with the European Un ion, continue, senior E.U. officials tell Reuters they will fight for a better deal than

the trade framework the White House reached already with the U.K. The E.U.'s trade Chief also says the block does not currently feel pressure to

reach an immediate deal with Washington. The E.U. recently announced more than $100 billion in proposed retaliatory tariffs on the U.S. if those

trade talks break down.

Joining me now is Tasos Chatzivasileiou. He's the Deputy Foreign Minister of Greece. Thanks so much for joining.

TASOS CHATZIVASILEIOU, GREEK DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Hello. Good afternoon.

SCIUTTO: So, of course the E.U. and the U.S. are still locked in trade talks. Trump, as you know, backed down significantly on his tariffs on

China. Do you expect him to possibly do the same with the E.U. as the economic effects of tariffs begin to take effect?

CHATZIVASILEIOU: Well, you know that we have entered the new geopolitical and geo-economic period, and I think that trade wars are not necessary in

this time.

The Greek prime minister, Mr. Kyriakos Mitsotakis, truly believes that we have a positive step with the decision by the U.S. administration to press

the post button for 90 days. Why? Because we believe that we could have the time to redefine our arguments and to start discussions with our U.S.

partners in order to find a new deal, to agree upon a new deal that could be mutually beneficial to both sides. And our aim is to have a deal with

zero tariffs between the United States of American and the European Union.

Above all, you know that the Transatlantic trade relationship is the strongest and the largest of its kind in the globe. Therefore, it's high

time to protect it by all means. And I'm really optimistic that the Americans and the Europeans will finally find a new deal that will be

really important and positive for both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.

SCIUTTO: It does seem that with the China trade deal that what really pushed President Trump was him seeing the economic effects of a cutoff or a

significant drop in U.S.-China trade, particularly concerns in the bond market, about prices here. Do you see any similar economic pressure for the

U.S. president if the trade war continues between the E.U. and the U.S.?

CHATZIVASILEIOU: First of all the interim agreement between U.S. and China is a positive step toward the right direction, but I think that there is

still a lot to be done. In any case, I think that the Europeans have to work with our American partners. And you know why? Because we have a very

strong relationship and you know that no other territories in the globe like the American, Europe are so interconnected.

Therefore, I think that we have to find this mutual beneficial solution for the sake of both sides. And I repeat, I'm really optimistic that the Greek

government truly believes that by discussion -- through discussions in good faith in the good spirit, we might find a good solution in the near future.

SCIUTTO: Will the E.U. have confidence that the U.S. and this U.S. president would stick to any agreement the side's reach? As you know, Trump

broke his own trade deal with Canada and Mexico, the USMCA from his first administration as he has been significantly raising tariffs on both those

countries now?

[18:25:00]

CHATZIVASILEIOU: You know, I think that President Trump is a smart leader that knows the reality and he knows that his ties, I mean, the American

ties with the European Union are so strong in many levels. I'm not talking only about economy or let's say trade relationship. I'm talking about the

geopolitical relation that connects us, our strong ties. Therefore, I think that he will understand and that we'll have a very positive outcome in the

next weeks to come.

You know, that the European ministers always hold discussions and deliberations between them. We have also another meeting. We had to --

another meeting today in Brussels. And we are getting ready in order to start any discussion with Washington. And allow me to repeat to you that

it's high time to find a mutual solution that will be really important for both sides.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, Greece has been highly involved in particularly reconstruction assistance, discussions for Ukraine. What is the future of

E.U. support for Ukraine? And is Europe prepared to fit -- to foot the bill both for reconstruction assistance, but also military assistance without

the U.S. if necessary?

CHATZIVASILEIOU: You know that the European Union has decided to invest more money to its own defense as we have to create, let's say, a military

branch in order to send a message that we are ready to defend our values and principles. Always incompatibility with NATO because, you know, that we

are proud members of the Atlantic Organization.

At the same time, I truly believe that no peace can be found in Ukraine without Kyiv at the table of any discussion or negotiation. This is our

official stance. And we would like to continue our support towards the Ukrainian side in order to be well prepared for any future discussion.

And allow me to add something else. There are a lot of great companies that are interested in participating in the reconstruction process of Ukraine.

And I think that this is now the top priority for Ukraine. I have visited the country last month and I saw that the situation is really dramatic. Our

friends in Ukraine need, let's say, a lot of new infrastructure, highways, hospitals, ports, airports, they need electricity factories.

So, there are a lot of big Greek companies that are ready to participate in the reconstruction process, either on their own or under joint ventures

with other companies from friendly nations.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Schools and hospitals too, of course. Tasos Chatzivasileiou, deputy foreign minister of Greece, thanks so much for joining.

Coming up, I'm going to speak to the father of an IDF soldier, who's also a U.S. national, still missing in Gaza. He's now asking the U.N. for

accountability.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're watching today. Officials from Ukraine and

Russia are expected to hold peace talks in Istanbul, but the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is not attending the meeting nor is his

Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. U.S. President Trump says he expects no progress on ending the war until he himself meets pertinently --

personally with Russia's president.

The U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments regarding President Trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. President Trump took aim at

the constitutional right on his very first day in office. Some lower courts have since issued nationwide injunctions against that measure. The White

House is arguing that those courts have overstepped their authority.

Mexican authorities are now investigating the killing of a TikTok beauty influencer as she was live streaming. They say that Valeria Marquez was

shot by a male intruder inside her beauty salon in a case of suspected femicide, the killing of a woman or girl for gender-based reasons. Such a

sad story.

Well, Israel continues to block aid from entering Gaza. Now, a new organization complying with Israeli demands says it will begin delivering

aid within two weeks. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is backed by the U.S. and says it does have Israel's approval. However, Israeli officials

have yet to confirm that publicly.

The foundation has come under hard questions from top humanitarian officials with the U.N.'s humanitarian chief calling it quote, "a cynical

sideshow." They say the foundation's plan violates some very basic humanitarian principles and falls short. We should note that more than half

of Gaza's population faces emergency or catastrophic levels of hunger already. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio acknowledged the deep need

there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We're troubled by the humanitarian situation there. Both the Israelis with American backing in support have

offered a plan to deliver aid that doesn't get diverted or stolen by Hamas. I've heard criticisms of that plan. We're open to an alternative if someone

has a better one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This week, Hamas released the last known living U.S. citizen still held hostage in Gaza. However, the bodies of four American citizens

are believed to remain behind. Among them, IDF soldier Itay Chen who was, as I mentioned earlier, a U.S.-Israeli citizen.

Just hours ago, his father Ruby, spoke to the U.N. Security Council about what's known as resolution 2474. That resolution demands that all sides in

a conflict account for missing people and then repatriate their remains.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBY CHEN, FATHER OF HOSTAGE ITAY CHEN: We are asking, begging, expecting the U.N. to uphold the very resolution it passed, to implement it with real

consequences. There must be accountability for those who withhold the deceased, and those that the five families of the right to closure.

Resolution 2474 must not remain symbolic, it must become enforceable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: And Ruby Chen joins me now from New York. Thanks so much for joining, Ruby. It's good to have you back. You've been fighting this battle

for so long now. I wonder as you address the U.N., what response did you hear there and did you leave there confident that members will enforce 2474

as it relates to Gaza?

[18:35:00]

CHEN: Yes, first, thanks for having me again, Jim. Always a pleasure to join. I would take one positive where all the security members wanted to

speak about the topic. It is a topic that, you know, is very fundamental from humanitarian standpoint, and that's what I heard. And I think that we

as United States, you know, we have been -- in getting hostages out. This administration, specifically, President Trump, out on that, 47 hostages

released since his inauguration. And the United States has to put sanctions on those entities or terrorists that are holding hostages, but they do it

by themselves. And when we do it by ourselves, it's not good enough.

We need the International Community to back sanctions, economic sanctions, diplomatic sanctions. And when we don't have the International Community

backing, it's not -- you know, it's not as successful. So, hopefully, we'll see some sort of implementation following this discussion.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe that the current expansion of Israeli military action in Gaza will stand in the way of a further ceasefire and the return

of further hostages including your son?

CHEN: So, I get a lot of option from both sides at the moment. You know, Mr. Steve Witkoff, he's been -- Adam Boehler to trying to find creative

ways to get us to a point where we could get the hostages out. And as you mentioned, there are still four U.S. citizens that need to be accounted

for. The talks that are happening in Doha seem positive. And my final mock to the U.N. Security Council is that it is unconceivable that the Security

Council will make a resolution of declaring the end of the conflict in Gaza without getting all of the hostages out, specifically those for U.S.

citizens, including my son.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You met with the FBI director, Kash Patel, regarding your son. Can you tell us what commitment he made to you?

CHEN: I think it's part of the administration's commitment to the topic. I think President Trump has been spot on this topic, and we talked about ways

that the FBI can be supportive of the actions that the administration is doing in order to get my son back.

And he echoed, you know, what we heard from President Trump again and again. He has said that he demands the release of all the hostages, the

living and the deceased, and the FBI director just echoed that statement as well. And he gave us assurance. And he said to me and my wife, I will not

disappoint you, and we will find a way to get our son back home.

SCIUTTO: Do you think that at the end of the day this will require a ceasefire and the return of all the hostages, including your son, will

require President Trump telling Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, stop the fighting, sign a deal and get the hostages home?

CHEN: It is unfortunate, but you know, the prime minister, you know, he's been around for a couple of decades and he's -- it's known as a fact that,

you know, when he needs to do something he doesn't want to do, he needs the U.S. to kind of tell this is what you need to do. So, he is always looking

for that, you know, U.S. president to tell him this is what you need to do. Then he goes to his coalition policy and says, look, I didn't have any

choice. I needed to do this. This is what the president wants.

And so, if -- the simple answer to your question is -- and to guide the minister to have this conflict end with the 58 hostages coming out. And

Hamas, this is a topic that's going to take a while to dismantle them. Unfortunately, the timeline of the hostages is not on the same timeline.

The prime minister has, at least publicly said, that he prioritizes the dismantling of Hamas before the release of the hostages. I think that is

very upsetting and disappointing.

And I know where President Trump is. He is at a place where he wants the U.S. hostages out, and I'm positive that he will continue to put all the

efforts possible to make sure that we see that happen with his commitment and his ability to move the players in the region to a place that we get

all the hostages out.

[18:40:00]

SCIUTTO: Ruby Chen, father of Itay Chen, thanks for joining and we do hope that your family gets relief soon.

CHEN: Thank you, Jim. God bless you and hopefully we can get some good news soon.

SCIUTTO: Thank you. Well, the sex trafficking trial of the music mogul Sean Diddy Combs, it's continuing in New York City. The defense cross-

examined his ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, trying to paint a more complicated picture of their relationship.

Ventura, of course, a key witness. She has accused Combs of sexual and physical abuse. The music producer has pleaded not guilty to federal

charges of racketeering, conspiracy, and sex trafficking. If he were to be convicted on all counts, Combs could face up to life in prison.

Elizabeth Wagmeister joins me now. And I wonder, it was Cassie Ventura's third day of Testimony. She's pregnant as she goes through this. And it

something of a tough day.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. So, today was the first day of cross-examination for Cassie Ventura, who is the star

witness, and according to the defense, the most critical witness of this entire trial.

So, the defense, we knew from their opening statements that their overall strategy is to say that this was not only a consensual relationship, but it

was a volatile relationship. They have said that Cassie Ventura was jealous and that both parties engaged in infidelity, but that she was a willing

participant in these so-called freak offs, Jim, which the government has said were essentially drug fueled sex parties, orchestrated by Combs where

he forced women, including Cassie Ventura, to engage in sex acts with male escorts.

Well, today on the stand we saw them try to poke holes in her story. They brought up a ton. I mean, hundreds of text messages, Jim, and they put them

out for the jury to see. Some of them were incredibly sexually explicit. I am not going to repeat them here because they were that graphic, but of

course, the point in showing the jury those sexually explicit text, Jim, was to say this was a willing participant. She wanted to have sex with our

client, and she wanted to engage in these freak offs.

In fact, I have a quote here of one of the more appropriate ones that I can read where Cassie simply texted, I love our freak offs. Now, when she was

asked about that on the stands, she said, quote, "those were just words."

Later on, Sean Combs texted her, I want to freak off right now. She wrote back me too. But when asked about that. She then said today that that was

just her agreeing with him. Now, her saying that was just her agreeing with him, that would seem to match her previous testimony from the past two days

where she said that Combs was physically abusive with her and that she was scared that if she didn't essentially placate him and comply with what he

wanted to do, which were those freak offs, that she would become abused more, but also that he might leave.

And she said numerous times over the past three days that she was deeply in love with Combs and she wanted to keep him happy. Now, something else that

the defense brought up today at length, Jim, they went around and round in circles talking about this was the copious amount of drugs that both Cassie

Ventura and Sean Combs did throughout the course of their decade long relationship.

She said that they were both addicts. In fact, she revealed that back in 2012 that Sean Combs actually overdosed on pills at a party at the Playboy

Mansion. And of course, when they're doing this, they're trying to paint a picture that this was a volatile relationship, but it was not sex

trafficking. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth Wagmeister in New York, thanks so much. Well, coming up, how Harvard's $27 copy of the Magna Carter turned out to be an original

nearly a thousand years old. We're going to discuss this incredible discovery coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:00]

SCIUTTO: Well, now just a stunning discovery, hiding in plain sight. What was thought to be just a copy of the Magna Carta in the archives of the

Harvard Law School Library is actually a real deal. British historians verify the extremely rare document after stumbling across manuscript number

172.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CARPENTER, MEDIEVAL HISTORY PROFESSOR, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON: There are three things which persuaded me it was absolutely genuine. The first

was its handwriting, and the handwriting is absolutely comparable to that found in the six previously known originals of 1300. Secondly, the size,

absolutely comparable too. But the third most important test of all was the actual content, the text. Because for the previous -- the other six

originals, they've all got exactly the same text.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Experts believe that copy -- that original rather, is one of just seven that still survive issued during King Edwards range -- reign back in

the 1300s. Joining us now is Professor of International Law and the vice dean for Librarian Information Services at Harvard Law is Jonathan

Zittrain, also happens to be an old friend of mine. Jonathan, nice to have you.

JONATHAN ZITTRAIN, INTERNATIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Great to see you again.

SCIUTTO: So, wow. I mean, you have original copy now of perhaps the most important democratic government document in the world. What was the

reaction of folks like you and your colleagues in the library?

ZITTRAIN: Well, the first reaction when our colleagues across the ocean brought up the possibility was just, you know, a little skepticism, worried

we might have Al Capone's vault situation here.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ZITTRAIN: But of course, being extremely intrigued and feel the responsibility of stewardship of this kind of artifact.

SCIUTTO: So, hearing the expert we had on previously, he said, OK, they looked at the handwriting, they looked at the size, and they looked at the

text itself. I know it's not your job to verify old documents here, but when you looked at that, when you look at that evidence were you -- are you

a hundred percent convinced this is an original?

ZITTRAIN: Well, professors, Vincent and Carpenter are the absolute best people in the world to be able to evaluate this kind of thing. But we've

got our own legal historians and paleographer and they were able to look at the meticulous notes that they -- the trail that they left of their

investigations, the first of which was just looking at the digitization we had done of this and many other works in our archives. So, they were able

to look at that just from their armchair, and then to be able to do some extra forensic work like ultraviolet scans. And then they in turn did some

genealogical tracing of how that document might have arrived at an auction in England in 1946 to be purchased for $26 and 50 cents by Harvard Law

School.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's just crazy. So, for a library, what kind -- beyond the value and beyond the fact you are looking at something that was from that

time, 800 some odd years ago, what kind of study does having an actual original allow you to do that having a copy would not?

[18:50:00]

ZITTRAIN: The honest answer to that is not so much. This is more of a spiritual and magical moment than it is. I mean, they've done the research

upon it to be able to properly categorize it with as much certainty as you can get in these things. But of course, the text of the document is well

known. So, it really is holding a real Honus Wagner rather than learning what the print on the back of the card says.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, I would take it. Just before we go quickly, ballpark figure as to its value?

ZITTRAIN: I'd say in spiritual terms, it's priceless. As to the rest, you won't see it on Facebook Marketplace or eBay anytime soon.

SCIUTTO: No. And certainly not for $27. Jonathan Zittrain, nice to have you on.

ZITTRAIN: Thanks so much.

SCIUTTO: All right. Coming up, the PGA Championship, one of four majors in men's golf is now underway. All the highlights from the first round just

after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: In our field of play, Masters Champion Rory McIlroy struggled a bit, finishing three over par in the first round of the PGA championship

world. Number one, Scottie Scheffler, he managed a decent score, a two under par round. Patrick Snell joins us live from Charlotte. So, tell us

who's really knocking it out of the park there.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Hi there, Jim. Yes. I tell you what. There is so much to focus on here. So much attention on Rory McIlroy, Jim, going

into this year's PGA championship, the player who's just become the sixth man in history to land the coveted Grand Slam. That's when a player wins

all four majors in any over the course of a career. And Rory done that incredible stuff. That meant there was so much focus on him.

I got a sneak peek, the hundreds gathered round the 18th, his ninth hole as he made the turn. Hundreds of there, fans out there on the course telling

me they were there two hours in advance just so they could be sure of getting a spot to see him play.

He was part of that star-studded trio of defending Champions Xander Schauffele and Scottie Scheffler. But I tell you what, he did -- by his

very high standards, Jim, he did disappoint because those standards are so high. He's won on this course four times before over the years dating back

to 2010. He only hit four out of possible 14 fairways off the tee. You know how powerfully he is off the tee as well.

He did start superbly. He had a birdie on the very first hole. He would have another birdie as well later on in the round, but he did have a double

bogey and that was a big setback for him. A three overpass, 74 for Rory McIlroy.

But as an Englishman, Jim, I'm proud to say I would love it for an English player to actually win this tournament again. You have to go back to 1919.

Yes, 1919 for the last time an English player won this tournament, that was Jim Barnes.

[18:55:00]

Luke Donald is from England. He is the current European team, Ryder Cup captain. He is now 47 years of age, and what a story it would be if he

could go on to win his first career major and win this one for England. He had a really, really impressive first round on Thursday, I will say, four

under par for him, leaving him in really, really good shape.

As I said, he's 47 years of age. He used to be world number one. I just checked his world ranking. It's now 871. But after his round on Thursday, I

actually asked him how he balanced his duties between being the Ryder Cup captain for Europe, and also keeping an eye on potential players who will

be on his team later on this year in New York. Take a listen to what he said to my question.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LUKE DONALD, BEST FINISH AT PGA CHAMPIONSHIP: T3 IN 2006: It's always fun. Bogey free in a major championship on a course that you wouldn't have

thought would be ideal for me. Second, go around I'm sort of familiar with what's going on and what I need to do and the timeframes and all that

stuff. So, I've been able to balance it quite well. It's been nice to play a minimized schedule. I still love competing. I love being a competitor.

But still giving myself plenty of time to be prepared for New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: Yes, lots to look forward to, Jim. And at 47 years of age do not rule him out. Why not? Why can't he win a major at 47 years of age?

Unlikely. I know, but we'll see. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: Get your England chants ready. Patrick Snell, thanks so much. And thanks so much for all of you for joining. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.

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