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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Israeli Planning To Strike Iran Nuclear Sites; Israel Approves About 100 Aid Trucks To Enter Gaza; Trump Tells Republicans To Pass Budget Bill; Trump's "Golden Dome"; Ukraine Breakthrough Elusive After Trump-Putin Call; Ukraine Pushes For More U.S. Sanctions On Russia; Musk Commits To Tesla. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 20, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching "The
Brief."
Just ahead this hour, the U.N. says that Israel approved about 100 aid trucks to enter Gaza. As the Netanyahu government faces growing
international pressure to lift the blockade there. President Trump goes to Capitol Hill and tells Republican lawmakers to back his, quote, "big,
beautiful tax bill." And Elon Musk commits to being the CEO of Tesla for the next five years and says he's going to cut back on political spending.
We will have those stories in a moment, but we begin with new developments. The U.S. has obtained new intelligence suggesting that Israel is making
preparations to strike Iranian nuclear facilities. That intelligence confirmed to me and my colleagues, Katie Bo Lillis and Natasha Bertrand, by
multiple U.S. officials.
An Israeli strike would be a brazen break with the Trump administration policy to pursue a diplomatic deal with Iran. It would also risk a broader
regional conflict within the Middle East. The official we've -- officials we've heard from caution, Israel has not made a final decision, and there
is disagreement inside the U.S. government about the likelihood of an Israeli strike.
However, the heightened worries stem not only from public and private messaging from senior Israeli officials but also from intercepted Israeli
communications and U.S. observations of Israeli military movements that could suggest an imminent strike, that according to multiple sources
familiar with the intelligence. Two sources say the preparations the U.S. has observed include the movement of air munitions and the completion of an
air exercise.
But those same indicators could simply be Israel trying to pressure Iran to abandon key tenets of its nuclear program. Even so, one person familiar
with the intelligence tells CNN, quote, "The chance of an Israeli strike on an Iranian nuclear facility has gone up in recent months."
I'm joined now by Aaron David Miller. He is a senior fellow at Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and of course, a long-time diplomat in
the Middle East. Aaron, always good to have you on.
AARON DAVID MILLER, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Great to be here with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first question here is, do you see circumstances under which Israel would strike Iranian nuclear facilities over U.S. objections?
MILLER: Hard to believe. I mean, the one circumstance would be a fundamental break in terms of what American intelligence and Israeli
intelligence have to say about Iran's not just development of enough material to make five or six weapons, they have that, but weaponization. If
there were such a difference of opinion and the Israelis were confident, they'd still seek American acquiescence.
Under these circumstances, Jim, four months into a Trump presidency, growing frustration in the White House, four rounds of negotiations, the
president seems determined he doesn't start wars, he ends them, except trade wars. I would be stunned. It would strain the bounds of credulity to
the breaking point in my judgment if the -- if we woke up tomorrow and the Israelis had launched strikes, targeted strikes against key Iranian nuclear
facilities. I don't think it's imminent.
SCIUTTO: We know that President Trump himself has set his own time limits CNN's reporting that he set a 60-day limit in communications with the
Iranians, which is coming up on 60 days ago. And given the Supreme leaders' comments today on the unlikelihood of reaching a deal, is it possible that
both the U.S. and Israel come to the same conclusion and determine that negotiations haven't worked and therefore, military action is necessary?
MILLER: I mean, at some point that both sides might come to that conclusion, but I can't imagine, every time I turn around, there's another
positive comment from Stephen Witkoff, the envoy, for everything. Who basically -- both the Iranians and the Americans seem to be abiding by the
-- you know, the Emily Post booklet on manners of good behavior in negotiation.
[18:05:00]
No, I think the president's prepared probably. I'm not running the railroad, but I'd be very wary of rushing this. Two months could turn to
three months, particularly for a guy who said he'd solved the Russian- Ukraine problem in 24 hours. So, the president's sense of time here I think is important. But I think he'll probably extend it, extend the deadline
unless he believes he's being played by the Iranians, which could well be the case.
SCIUTTO: Understood. Now, if there were to be military action there, and we should note that Trump himself has at least made that threat, right, quite
publicly for some time now, how would Iran be likely to respond?
MILLER: It's unimaginable to me that the Iranians, even though as one former Israeli general said, we're playing soccer with the Israelis -- with
the Iranians, but they have no goalie. Even though Iran is highly vulnerable, the rest three hundreds are not yet replaced. The Israelis have
demonstrated an escalation dominance. They could strike it will and the Iranians simply cannot escalate directly or through their proxies.
If Israel struck Iranian nuclear sites, Iran would've two options, play the victim and basically, with Russian and Chinese support, embark on an open
process, maybe withdraw from the NPT and pursue openly, weaponization, or alternatively, the Supreme leader, you know -- April 19, 2024, I was
stunned by the fact that the Iranians chose to strike Israel directly.
The other option is to respond, both against Israel and against American forces in the Gulf. But if it was just an Israeli strike, I think that the
Iranians would be pretty hesitant to go after American targets. But those are the two options as I see it. Play the victim and gain international
support and then pursue weaponization outside of the NPT or alternatively, strike Israel or the Gulf States, but that's going to bring them into
direct conflict with the United States.
SCIUTTO: Finally, could this be signaling, right, it wouldn't be the first time that nations have moved military hardware. I mean, the U.S. quite
recently put a bunch of B-2 bombers in Diego Garcia, right? Could it be signaling to show and apply pressure?
MILLER: Yes, psyops, but I can't -- again, you know, when the Americans deploy an extraordinary degree of hardware, Diego Garcia, including B-2
Spirit Bombers, I'm not sure the Iranians are going to be impressed by whatever arrangements the Israelis are making. But it could be -- I mean,
is this a combined psyops involving the United States? Are the Americans aware of this and have they acquiesced in these Israeli military
preparations?
It's really opaque, Jim, and it's really hard from the outside to get a really good sense of what the Israelis are up to. But I would bet at least
the mortgage on my house. I shouldn't say this, that an Israeli strike on Iran nuclear sites are not imminent, but we can talk again if we wake up
tomorrow and find they are.
SCIUTTO: Aaron David Miller, always good to have you on.
MILLER: Always a pleasure, Jim. Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Turning now to the humanitarian disaster unfolding in Gaza. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio tells the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
that Israel can defeat Hamas while still allowing aid in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: As I think they've acknowledged in the statement today that we've -- that they've heard from us to allow more
aid in, because I believe they can achieve their objective of defeating Hamas without -- while still allowing aid to enter in sufficient
quantities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This as a U.N.-backed report estimates that one in five people in Gaza today is facing starvation after an Israeli blockade that is dragged
on for months. Under international pressure, Israel says it did allow 93 U.N. aid trucks to enter Gaza just today. Conditions inside Gaza though
remain dire. CNN's Abeer Salman has the story of a 12-year-old girl who's now responsible for keeping her whole family fed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANA AL-SKEIFI, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): My dad has no-one else, I'm the one who carries the water. We wait for hours just to fill up, and
oftentimes we only fill half a bucket. I want to be strong so my father doesn't suffer.
ABEER SALMAN, CNN PRODUCER AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the story of one 12-year-old girl, Jana al-Skeifi and her family. But it's also
the story of so many others in Gaza today, where days are punctuated by the never-ending search for water and food. And where the death of one pushes a
family to endure unimaginable hardships.
[18:10:00]
AL-SKEIFI (through translator): My brother heard a woman begging for help, her children were terrified. He leaned down to point a way out and was shot
by a sniper. It entered into his chest and came out.
MOHAMED AL-SKEIFI, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): The bullet entered here in his chest. We took off the coat and buried him. He was our only
son. His death broke us.
SALMAN (voice-over): After her brother was killed, it was Jana who stepped up, becoming her family's caretaker and guardian.
J. AL-SKEIFI (through translator): My father is old and has heart disease. My mother has cancer. If my father tries to carry the bucket, he'll fall. I
have to carry all this and my dad does his best to help.
SALMAN (voice-over): It's a burden made worse by Israel's punishing 11-week blockade of food and aid on the Gaza Strip. Israel says the blockade was
designed to bring about the release of all of the hostages and pressure Hamas. So far, neither has happened.
Instead, despite aid now trickling in, the U.N. says 20 percent of the population faces starvation, calling it, quote, ""atrocious and beyond
human."
AL-SKEIFI (through translator): I used to play with my niece all the time. She was malnourished, and couldn't be treated here. They told us she had to
be evaluated. This is when she was dying. God bless her.
AYA AL-SKEIFI, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): I didn't even want to travel abroad. I just wanted someone to bring her milk. I stopped eating,
drinking, moving. I couldn't even go to the bathroom because I was afraid she would slip away. At 5:00 in the morning, I realized she had passed. It
felt like someone took my heart away, or stabbed me with a knife. I couldn't proves the feeling.
SALMAN (voice-over): A baby born and perished surrounded by starvation. Her three brief months of life, sustained by a child. Before the war, Gaza
survived on food deliveries from hundreds of trucks a day. Now, with the Israeli military pledging to take over the entire Gaza Strip, whatever
makes it through will almost certainly not be enough.
Abeer Salman, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: An important story there from inside Gaza. Well, President Trump has now visited Capitol Hill, meeting with House Republicans to make a
personal pitch for passing his tax and spending cuts package, this as they remain divided inside the Republican Party over a number of sticking
points.
Sources tell us the U.S. president warned Republican lawmakers not to make changes to Medicaid and to drop their tax relief effort for some blue
states. The measure called one big, beautiful bill by the president would also fulfill his campaign promises to eliminate taxes on tips and overtime
pay. One of the holdouts is Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massie, Republican. Listen to what he had to say to my colleague Manu Raju.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you worried about blow back from the Trump allies, from the MAGA base for
voting no?
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): No. Actually, I've got a lot of people in the MAGA base who realize that we could have done this differently. We could
extend the tax cuts and paid for them, but instead, we're not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Jeff Zeleny has the latest now, and I wonder is the read from the White House that President Trump moved the needle on the Hill today among
Republicans?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it certainly does not seem, or at least at the beginning, in the immediate
aftermath of President Trump visiting Capitol Hill, a pretty rare visit there to meet with Republicans, it did not seem to soften any of the
criticism or the concern. In fact, as the day wore along, the concerns on the divisions seem to deepen.
Now, this often happens in legislation. We've seen it a few times earlier this year. Things generally get worked out. That's why they call it sort of
the sausage making, if you will, of legislation is not always pretty, but they get to the end of the day.
But, Jim, this feels different. It feels a little bit different here, for one, for the president. Really, this is we -- cannot understate how
important the stakes are for this, how high the stakes are for this. For all the time we've watched the president sign executive orders, and there
really have been a few hundred of those, hundreds of those, he's only signed a handful of actual pieces of legislation.
[18:15:00]
And presidential successes and legacies are built on legislation. They're not built on executive orders. And compounding that, one of the biggest
successes of his first term was the tax cut bill signed back in 2017, that expires this year. So, if a deal is not cut on this, not only will they not
have the budget bill, also taxes will go up. So, there is a big incentive for Republicans to do this.
But we should point out, the House is difficult, never mind the Senate, even more difficult there than of course is to come back to the House. This
is the biggest challenge of facing the White House yet in terms of a legislation. And it seemed that one visit did not necessarily, at least
immediately, do the trick.
SCIUTTO: We'll see if a little more pressure works over time. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. Joining us now to discuss further, Colorado Congressman
Jeff Hurd joins me. Thanks so much for taking the time, sir.
REP. JEFF HURD (R-CO): Happy to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I'll start where I start with Jeff. What's your read? Do you think the president moved the needle to push this over the line?
HURD: Yes, I think we can get this done. Listen, we're close. We've been working on this for months. This is something that the president campaigned
on, that we all campaigned on. We're here at the goal line. It's time to get things done. I have confidence in the president. I have confidence in
leadership that we're going to get this bill passed.
SCIUTTO: As you know, you have a lot of Republicans who say quite publicly, they want to cut the deficit. And you have a particular group of
Republicans who said they're not going to sign something unless they're -- unless this is at least a balanced bill. And the math doesn't add up yet. I
mean, are you comfortable? Are your colleagues comfortable passing something that adds to the deficit rather than subtracts?
HURD: Well, I think, I'm not sure I'd agree with that premise of that. I think the growth that we'll see from extension to Trump tax cuts will
result in a boom in the economy. It's not only on the revenue side and dollars that we're getting in, but it's also going to help hardworking
taxpayers like those I represent. For example, in my district, the average family earns about $72,000. If we don't extend the Trump tax cuts, it's
going to mean a cut of -- or an increase in $1,400 in taxes per year. That's not something that's good. It's something that I think those dollars
are better used in the dollars of American taxpayers. And that's what this bill's going to do, and I think it's going to grow the economy.
SCIUTTO: As you know, there's a group of Republican lawmakers who, in particular, want to raise the deduction for what's known as SALT taxes,
state and local taxes, some of them in the State of New York. And as you know, their numbers may be the difference between a Republican majority
following the midterms or no -- or losing that majority here. Do you agree with the president? He seems to be applying pressure to them saying, enough
already, accept what you got.
HURD: Look, I will let the SALT folks figure that out with the president. That's not a big issue in my district. SALT in Colorado is not a big issue,
but I understand it is for other Republicans, vulnerable Republicans, Republicans that are part of our majority. I trust that they're going to
work something out.
And my view is we cannot make the perfect enemy the good. This is the legislation that we ran on. Let's deliver for the American people.
SCIUTTO: How important is Medicaid benefits to your constituents here? And are you concerned that the cuts will be too steep?
HURD: Medicaid is essential to the people that I represent, and my commitment is that we're going to strengthen Medicaid and preserve Medicaid
for those that need it most. And I think that the legislation that we're seeing that came out of our Energy and Commerce Committee and that we're
going to be looking on voting does just that. It protects those who need it the most, the pregnant women, the most vulnerable disabled children, senior
citizens.
This legislation strikes the right balance and make sure that the folks that are getting this support are the ones that need it the most. And I
have many of those in my district, and it's something that is important for me.
SCIUTTO: I -- and perhaps you might feel the same way. I feel like I've seen this movie before, right? Where there's a small number of GOP holdouts
to legislation or perhaps, you know, prior it was with Senate confirmation to some of the president's cabinet nominees who, ultimately, they fold,
right? And the caucus stays together. I wonder, do you see a similar outcome this time around?
HURD: It's certainly impossible. I will tell you, I think leadership is doing a great job in handling what is a very, you know, difficult
situation. You have Republicans from all districts all over the country, different priorities, and I think the speaker has done a terrific job and
what is a very tough situation. And I think we're going to get this done and I have confidence that we'll get this passed.
And yes, we have seen this before, but I'll tell you, I've been in Congress, Jim, for a couple months. And a lot of people have doubted our
speaker and he's delivered and I think that's what we're going to see this week.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, just in terms of the impact on the deficit, because I know that there will often be the answer that, well, with growth, that
will increase the revenue despite what -- despite the numbers not quite matching up on tax cuts and the cuts to the budget. Because, as you know,
some of your own colleagues are saying, this doesn't have the cuts that we need. Would you be comfortable passing a bill that in the end adds to the
deficit and in effect, breaks Republicans promise to reduce, what, listen, both parties agree is a ballooning national debt?
[18:20:00]
HURD: Well, look, I think this particular bill that we're talking about is delivering on the primaries -- priorities that we campaign on. And so, it's
essential that we get it passed. Long-term, I think Republicans and Democrats need to look at how we control spending, because this public debt
is a public curse, and it's something that we're going to be passing along to our kids. And a lot of the issues that are driving that spending, those
mandatory spending, are not addressed in this legislation at all. This is something that we as Republicans and Democrats need to come together and
look at, and I expect that we're going to be doing that. I hope that we're going to be doing that in the coming months and years.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Jeff Hurd of the great State of Colorado, we appreciate you joining.
HURD: Happy to join you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump lays out his vision for what he calls a Golden Dome Missile Defense System for the United States. Exactly how much
will it cost and will it work? Is the technology there? We're going to take a look next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: President Donald Trump's vision for the Golden Dome Missile Defense System moved one step closer to at least moving forward today. The
president alongside Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth defended the project, saying it would protect the U.S. by intercepting particular long-range
missiles and other weapons. He also said he believes it would be complete by the end of his term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The one big beautiful bill will include $25 billion for the Golden Dome to help construction get underway. We're
talking about $175 billion total cost of this when it's completed. It's a pretty evil world out there. So, this is something that goes a long way
toward the survival of this great country. And as I said, we'll be discussing Canada. They want to hook in and they want to see if they can be
a part of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: President Trump has named Space Force Vice Chief of Operations General Michael Guetlein to lead the project. Joining us now is Wes
Rumbaugh. He is a fellow in the Missile Defense Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies here in Washington. Good to have you
on, Wes. Thanks for joining.
WES RUMBAUGH, FELLOW, MISSILE DEFENSE PROJECT AS CSIS: Thanks for having me.
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: So, first let's begin with the reality here. Is the technology there to defend an area as big as the United States and president mentioned
Canada as well, from not just missiles, but they're talking about hypersonic weapons and other missiles such as cruise missiles? Is it
possible?
RUMBAUGH: I mean, so technologically, what you're talking about, I mean, the United States and countries around the globe field defenses against
cruise missiles every day. Ukraine fields defenses against cruise missiles and against limited ballistic missiles as well. The technologies that are
more challenging here, the space-based interceptor technologies that Donald Trump talked about and harken back to the Strategic Defense Initiative
introduced by Ronald Reagan.
Now, obviously, there's been significant technological advancement since the 1980s in terms of reduction in cost in space launch and miniaturization
of important technologies like electronics and other capabilities. So, it is more technically feasible now than it was then. The biggest challenge
here is simply the scale, talking about defending against all different types of missiles that require different types of defenses for each of
those systems.
SCIUTTO: The president gave a three-year timeline. I mean, that runs counter to even what U.S. military officials are saying about many more
years. Is that workable to have something even in the best-case scenario, something in place by the end of his term?
RUMBAUGH: I would call that an exceptionally ambitious timeline. I think that it's more likely a reflection of maybe an initial operating capability
or some small demonstrator element inside of the next three years. But the cost that he's talking about, $175 billion, is sort of towards the low end
of what the Congressional Budget Office estimated of what the 20-year cost of just the space-based interceptor component of this project would be.
SCIUTTO: I've been inside Israel myself, which of course has its own dome, Iron Dome, and other layers of missile defense during Iranian missile
barrages. And even with something as successful as that defense system and on a much smaller piece of land, missiles get through, right? And there are
ways to attempt to overwhelm those systems as to how many you fire and in what intervals. Would such a system be impenetrable or more likely to be
one that can shoot down a lot, but not all, depending on the size of a barrage?
RUMBAUGH: Yes, obviously, there's no such thing as an impenetrable missile shield. I think that it would be something much more akin to the layered
defenses that Israel deploys, not only the Iron Dome system, but also the Aero Defense system and the David Sling system.
And we saw the strategic benefit of that. You're talking about the Iranian attacks last October, it allowed Israel to be able to weather those attacks
and then limited or allowed Iran and Israel to be able to de-escalate that crisis and have some negotiating room there, rather than continuously
escalating those exchanges to a larger degree.
SCIUTTO: Final question here, to get this done, it seems that the government acknowledges it can't do it all alone. It needs to bring in
multiple companies, including the private sector and possibly bypass what is typically a very long and usually overbudget procurement process. Will
this be a mind -- there's been a lot of talk of this as, you know, in the Pentagon for some time of, you know, public-private partnerships and using
smaller companies to move things along faster, et cetera, but would that be necessary to get something like this done?
RUMBAUGH: I mean, the administration has made it clear that it's attempting to change the way that the U.S. does weapons procurement. I think that
that's something that almost every administration looks at in terms of how can it develop weapons more quickly and more effectively at lower cost.
These are complex pieces of technology though. So, they run into certain physical constraints in terms of things like manufacturing capacity and
broader external economic constraints, things like tariffs could significantly increase the cost of certain subcomponents and other
components that'll be necessary to make some of these Iron Dome systems work.
So, again, the three-year timeline is going to be very ambitious in terms of the ability to turn that around. And U.S. weapons makers will be
challenged by that, whether they're new Silicon Valley entrants or the more established defense primes.
SCIUTTO: We'll be watching closely. Wes Rumbaugh, I'm sure it's not the last time you and I talk about this. Thanks for joining.
RUMBAUGH: All right. Thank you very much.
SCIUTTO: Coming up just after the break, peace in Ukraine looks further away today than perhaps ever despite that phone call earlier this week
between Presidents Putin and Trump. Now, the push for new sanctions on Russia is being resisted by the Trump administration. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're watching today.
The U.N. says Israel approved about 108 trucks to enter Gaza on Tuesday. Several were seen moving towards the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom
Crossing. U.N. officials say this initial amount of aid is nowhere near enough.
Iran supreme leader says he does not expect negotiations with the U.S. over Tehran's nuclear program to have a positive outcome. According to Iranian
state media, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei added that Washington's demand for Iran to stop uranium enrichment is, quote, "a big mistake." Iran and the U.S.
held their fourth round of talks earlier this month in Oman, U.S. officials, say a fifth round may take place in Europe this week.
A male escort testified today in the case against Sean Diddy Combs. Sharay Hayes says he was hired about a dozen times by Combs and Cassie Ventura to
join them in hotel rooms. The mother of Ventura was also on the stand saying Combs had demanded she wire him $20,000 to make up for what he spent
on her daughter. Former assistant David James meanwhile shared details about Combs' alleged drug use and confrontation with rival Marion Suge
Knight. Combs has pleaded not guilty to charges that include sex trafficking.
Russia is trying to buy time, those are the words of the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy claiming Moscow actually wants the war to go
on. He's pushing President Trump to go harder against Russia with new sanctions.
[18:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): It is important that America continues to be a participant in the peacemaking
process. It is America that they fear in Russia. It is American influence that can save many lives if it influences Putin for the sake of ending the
war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That after the failure to secure a ceasefire, despite a two-hour phone call between presidents Putin and Trump. Hours later, Moscow launched
more than a hundred drones into Ukraine. Today, however, Secretary of State Marco Rubio ruled out new sanctions on Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: Our belief, the president's belief, is he doesn't -- he believes that right now if you start threatening sanctions, the Russians will stop
talking. And there's value in us being able to talk to them and drive them to get to the table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, while the U.S. is sidestepping sanctions once again, a fresh wave of punitive measures were announced by the United Kingdom and the
European Union targeting Russian ships, companies, and individuals. This comes as CNN obtains, exclusive drone footage and radio intercepts
appearing to show Russian troops executing a group of Ukrainian soldiers, even though those soldiers had just surrendered. Nick Paton Walsh has the
story. I have to warn you, some of these images are graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Arta, listen to me. Ask who the commander is. Take the commander and kill everyone else.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Before even this moment of surrender, the fate of these six Ukrainian troops were sealed. Ukrainian drone images from the southern
front last November show the horror that comes after defeat. A Russian hiding in the bushes shoots one Ukrainian in the head. Ukrainian officials
gave CNN intercepts of Russian radio orders from their commanders to their troops here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Take them to the road.
WALSH (voice-over): We can't verify them independently, but they help paint a chilling picture of what appeared to be executions to order of a plan to
kill prisoners given from above.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Get the -- out. Take the senior one. And get rid of the others.
WALSH (voice-over): The Russian in the bushes seems to fit a mask and then emerge. He's joined by another Russian. They talk. There's no visible
threat from their prisoners and one captive Ukrainian seems to gesture at them. But nothing changes, his fate shot in the head calmly.
Another Ukrainian gets up, presumably the commander, and takes off his armor, but the voice on the radio is impatient.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you take them down? That's a question.
WALSH (voice-over): The commander is led away. In total, six times the order to kill was given, according to the intercepts.
WALSH: A forensic study for CNN "The Files" an audio found no reason they weren't authentic, and a western intelligent official described them to us
as, quote, "credible." We've geolocated the footage of the killing to this tree line just outside of Novodarivka in Zaporizhzhia region where fierce
fighting raged late last year. Ukrainian prosecutors say the executions of surrendering Ukrainian troops by Russians are increasing. They say they
opened eight cases in all of 2023 39 for all of last year, and in just the first four months of this year, 20.
YURII BIELOUSOV, OFFICE OF THE PROSECUTOR-GENERAL OF UKRAINE: It's a well- coordinated and well-planned policy and the execution of prison so forth as well as other war crimes which have been committed in Ukraine, well, I
think that goes up to the president of Russian Federation who, for example, when it was the example of Kursk area when there were -- when he conducted
like a military meeting or something, and when he said that we should treat them as terrorists. And everyone knows how Putin treats people who they
call terrorists. So, for -- it's almost synonym for us to execute.
WALSH (voice-over): The U.N. special rapporteur on extrajudicial killing told CNN the executions would not happen in such numbers and frequency
without orders, or at the very least, consent from highest military commanders, which in Russia means the presidency.
Another video supplied to CNN by a western intelligence official shows a similar scene also from Zaporizhzhia. Ukrainians are surrounded and
surrendering to Russians with red tape on their helmets. But two others join them, white tape on their helmets. They appear to use their radios,
and then a white helmet opens fire as the smoke clears a red reloads his weapon and shoots another Ukrainian in the head.
There's no radio intercept here, but a western intelligence official told CNN the order to kill likely came from the white to the red. Killings aimed
at hitting Ukrainian morale, but also cynically just at easing Russian logistics.
[18:40:00]
This affects the morale and psychological state of our guys, he says. We have facts when the Russian military and political leadership directly gave
verbal instructions not to take prisoners and to shoot those captured on the spot, because it complicates military logistics from their point of
view.
A stark window into Moscow's mindset, surrender means nothing, and mercy is not an option.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv of Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Important story. William Taylor is a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, and he joins me now. Good to have you on. Thanks so much.
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Thanks, Jim. Good to be here.
SCIUTTO: So, I wonder what your reaction is to seeing reporting like this, Russian soldiers, shooting troops who surrendered. Listen, from the
atrocities in Bucha just after the invasion to Russian -- continued Russian bombing of civilian targets to executions like this, how strong is the
case, in your view, over the course of this war that Russia committed war crimes, a series of war crimes?
TAYLOR: Jim, it's undeniable. It's disgusting. It's wrenching. It makes you angry. You can imagine what Ukrainians are feeling when they see this. As
you say, this goes back to the beginning of this war, back in -- or the beginning of this invasion in Bucha and in Irpin, just outside of Kyiv.
So, Ukrainians have been living with this. This is what they've been thinking about as they try to steal themselves to actually negotiate with
the Russians.
SCIUTTO: So, given an event or further reporting such as this, given that, once again, even with a personal phone call between Trump and Putin, that
Russia has still not signed onto a ceasefire that President Trump has demanded, but it still hasn't signed on, why no sanctions? Can you defend
Marco Rubio saying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, no new sanctions that might disturb Russia's interest in talking?
TAYLOR: No, you cannot defend that. There has to be pressure on the Russians if this killing, if this bloodbath, as the president calls it, is
going to stop. It has to be pressure on Putin and on the Russians. And there's been no indication that the current approach has had any effect
whatsoever. So, no.
Now, is the time for sanctions. The Europeans are stepping up. Europeans are putting on sanctions yesterday and today. And the Americans are not.
SCIUTTO: I wonder if that's where this war is going in effect, right? Because Europe is putting on sanctions, the U.S. is not. Europe is
providing additional military assistance, the U.S. has not cut off assistance, but it's not adding. And there's fear that it might begin
subtracting. Is that who's taking the lead in effect now, Europe on Ukraine?
TAYLOR: Europe is taking the lead. The Ukrainians are in the lead. The Ukrainians are now providing roughly 40 percent of the weapons that are in
use, they're coming from Ukrainian factories. But the Europeans are stepping up. The Americans continue to provide, as you say, we haven't cut
it off and we continue to provide an intelligence, which is important, that needs to continue. But yes, the Ukrainians are in the lead with the support
from the Europeans.
SCIUTTO: You know that old saying, right, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome. I
mean, are we approaching that territory with the Trump administration policy, right? Because there's been a lot of time, there's been those peace
talks in Istanbul that (INAUDIBLE) where there's been the personal appeal from Trump to Putin and it's not moving Russia, even on a ceasefire, you
know, set aside, ending the war. What's going to change the U.S. policy here?
TAYLOR: Jim, you're exactly right. If we are serious about stopping this war, about helping the Ukrainians and Europeans to stop this war, it has to
be pressure on Putin. That pressure's not there. It's clearly not there. There are ways to bring that pressure. There are sanctions that have been
discussed with the United States. The Americans have talked about sanctions, what could happen, on energy, on finance, on banks, but that
needs to happen as well as the continued provision of -- or increase in the weapons provided to the Ukrainians.
SCIUTTO: We'll see, as they say. Ambassador Bill Taylor, thanks so much for joining.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, Elon Musk says he is committed to staying at the top of Tesla and he's promising less involvement in politics. The latest on
Musk's apparent retreat from government work, that's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." U.S. stocks fell across the board on Tuesday. The S&P 500 dropping for the first time in six sessions. Shares of
Home Depot felt more than half a percent after it reported mixed earnings. The retailer says it will not raise the prices for most of its goods
despite higher tariffs. However, it warns it may stop selling certain items if tariffs make them just too costly to import. Walmart warned last week
that it will pass the cost of tariffs onto its customers. President Trump responded on Truth Social that Walmart and China should, in his words, eat
the tariffs themselves.
Elon Musk was a constant presence at the White House during President Trump's first a hundred days in office, but his role as special U.S.
government employee seems to be winding down. In an interview with the Qatar Economic Forum, Musk said he will become less of a political
influencer going forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: Well, I think in terms of political spending, I'm going to do a lot less in the future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why is that?
MUSK: I think I've done enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it because of blowback?
MUSK: Well, if I see a reason to do political spending in the future, I will do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A little bit of a caveat there. Musk is also promising to remain at Tesla for at least the next five years. He says, Tesla sales are
rebounding and that the company is expanding U.S. Robotaxi trials soon. Tesla shares rose slightly on the news. Investors have been pleading with
Musk to spend more time at the firm during a challenging time, to say the least, for EV sales, particularly a Tesla sales going down, and to stop
making Tesla a political lightning rod.
Paul La Monica joins me now. He's a senior markets analyst writer for Barron's. Good to have you back, Paul.
PAUL R. LA MONICA, SENIOR MARKETS ANALYSIS WRITER, BARRON'S: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first of all, I mean, do we believe him? I mean, because he's played quite a major political role in the presidential race. Hundreds of
millions of dollars in cabinet confirmations, right, pressuring Republicans, threatening those who did not come on board that they'd be
primaried with his bank -- you know, with his bank book, the Wisconsin judge race, Germany's elections. I mean, is this a message you believe or
should we interpret this as a message to shareholders to calm them?
[18:50:00]
LA MONICA: Well, I think it might be a little of both, Jim. I think that Elon Musk can't be blind to reality. Tesla's stock is still down about 15
percent this year. It's one of the worst performers of the so-called magnificent seven. You mentioned already the first quarter sales and
deliveries numbers that were, you know, quite frankly, not very good at all. How much of that is due to political blowback because Trump -- he's
now seen as being, you know, very close to the Trump administration. That I think is a major issue in question right now.
And Musk wants to focus on the future of Tesla and there's a lot going on with autonomous cars, with the optimist humanoid robot that he said that's
going to be the future of the company. If Elon Musk wants to, you know, lead those efforts, he's going to have to do it more from his factories and
less from the White House probably.
SCIUTTO: I mean, the thing is, the headwinds are not just political, right? I mean, there's just more competition, right? There are more options here
in the U.S. I mean, in Europe, China has some great EVs that are a heck of a lot cheaper. So, you have a mix of headwinds there and a lot of big
shareholders, they don't seem convinced that better times are coming. Several major investors, Ross Garber, Dan Loeb, they've been unloading
Tesla stock. I mean, when you talk to folks in the market, are they convinced?
LA MONICA: No, I don't think anyone is convinced. Investors are still nervous. And you're correct, there's a lot of competition, not just for the
electric vehicles that Tesla makes, but also in the autonomous world. I mean, Waymo, the Alphabet Google-owned company is going to be a formidable
competitor, and I think the jury is still out on whether or not the optimist humanoid robot that, you know, Musk really seems to be infatuated
with, is that just kind of sci-fi pie in the sky but isn't going to lead to any significant revenue or profits or is it a legitimate business?
I think people are more convinced that autonomous vehicles, there's a business model there and that Tesla really is trying to be the leader in
that market.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I bet I see those cars driving around D.C., right, mapping everything out. Paul La Monica, thanks so much for joining.
LA MONICA: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: The Chicago White Sox still have one of the worst records in Major League Baseball, but they got a rare win this year when it was revealed at
Pope Leo backs the south siders and not the rivals, the Chicago Cubs. The future pope even attended game one, you see him there, of the 2005 World
Series watching the Sox there on the left, get a 5-3 win against the Houston Astros.
[18:55:00]
It's now a major moment in White Sox history, and the team has revealed a new mural marking the section where the pope or the future pope watch the
game. The Sox would go on to sweep that series. They might need some divine intervention now because they have not won a pendant since.
In today's Good Brief --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: -- the iconic characters who live on "Sesame Street" will soon have a new home. Netflix announced that it has signed a deal to air the
children's show as part of a new partnership with PBS, which has aired the show since, well, when I was born, 1970. Big Bird Elmo, the Cookie Monster
and other beloved characters were without a streaming platform after Warner Brothers Discovery, which is CNN's parent company, decided not to renew its
distribution contract.
"Sesame Street" says the new season will feature format changes as well as fan favorite segments that children around the world know and love. Good to
have them out there.
Thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
